View Full Version : Canadian Psychiatrists should be educated on ADD/ADHD


galexica2020
02-28-04, 09:44 PM
Hi ALL:

I am so disappointed with our Canadian Health Care System, because that most of our medical doctors do not believe in ADHD in Adults. I am stressing psychiatrists that don't keep up with the latest information for ADHD. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD by a neuro-psychologist back in December 2003. He told me to see a psychiatrist to help me with medication. Anyway, I waited 6 weeks to see a psychiatrist and gave him my report from my pyschologist. Well, the psychiatrist questioned the testing methods of my psychologist and the psychiatrist said that ADHD is only prevalent in children. I told the psychiatrist that I was tested for 8.5 hours in a hospital and he said that he believes I don't have it. He thinks I have a mood disorder. I was furious because he never acknowleged my psychologist report. This assessment was paid by the Alberta Government and is documented on my file. I was so mad, I cancelled all appointments with him and made an another appointment with a doctor that was recommended from the CHADD Website in Edmonton. I am looking forward to meeting this doctor because all my life I have suffered harshly from the education system, workplace and from my peers. I want to get on with my life and live it normally and peacefully instead of being restless.

Galexica

Garry
02-28-04, 09:58 PM
I can feel your frustration but I would like to go to bat for the two doctors I have been dealing with. One being a psychiatrist, who deals only with ADDult ADDers and the other being my medical doctor, who openly admits his limited knowlage on ADD but is more than willing to listen to the patient and read the info provided by the patient.

I cant dispute what you say but I can give a big pat on the back to mky 2 doctors

and

I Am Canadian

also

I do not have a disease
I do not Have ADD

I am ADD

so that makes me a CanADDian

I AM CanADDian

Lexicon
02-28-04, 10:26 PM
I feel for you, galexica2020. When I went to a GP to get referred to a psychiatrist for what I believed was ADD he didn't think it was likely that I had it--but he sent me to a psychiatrist anyway.

I lucked out, though. Not only did that psychiatrist deal with many ADD patients, he was ADD himself!

Hope you have better luck with the new doc you're going to see... keep us posted.

addhil
06-17-04, 11:04 AM
Ugh I know just what you mean. It's taken me forever to find a doctor that would perscribe me a medication other than Ritalin. Actually, my previous doctor thought I was hoping to get Dexedrine for "recreational purposes", I've found that a lot of doctors seem to be mistrusting here in the maritimes. Luckily I've found one (that's an hour trip away by ferry and bus) that actually knows something about ADD.

I'm worried about moving soon though. I'll have to either go back to my old doctor in Ontario who didn't know anything about ADD, or go to another doctor who might try sending me to a Psychiatrist or trying to get me back on the Ritalin which doesn't even work.

If my doctor was perscribing me the Dexedrine in my old place of residence, can the new doctor deny me the medication?

ASID
07-27-04, 03:45 PM
After moving, my new doctor asked why, after 40 yrs of everything being fine, did I need Ritalin? I sat there with my mouth wide open and just gawked at him. 40 yrs of everything being fine? He met me 5 minutes before. Nice guy but lacking in some things. Like finding out that I had been diagnosed 5 years before and had finally made some progress with work, marriage and home.

Canuck
09-22-04, 03:43 PM
I can certainly relate to your frustration, Galexica. I was jerked around for over 4 years before I was finaly diagnosed , also by a neuro-psycologist, this past May. The first psycholgical couselors who suspected ADD weren't qualified to do testing. When I tried talking to my family doctor, he just wouldn't believe in the possibility of ADD. Luckily, he left his practice and his replacement was more open minded and she was able to refer me to a psychiatrist. But the psychiatrist sort of got me off track by suggesting I may have Tourette's and wanted to refer me to a neuro-psychologist who could diagnose me. I felt I was being led on another wild goose chase and didn't contact the neuro-psychologist for another several months. I found out later that I had misunderstood the psychiatrist. Aapparently, the neuro-psychologist also did AADD testing and the psychiatrist was onlly hinting at the POSSIBILITY of Tourette's; I may actually have ADD. Well, why didn't she explain that to me clearly in the first place. It would have saved me months of anguish.And to make matters worse, my diagnosis cost me $500 because my private health insurance excluded anything to do with psychological treatments.

QueensU_girl
02-01-06, 01:42 PM
I spent about 5 years struggling at Queen's University, and BEGGING FOR TESTING, to only be repeatedly refused testing.

It is SO HARD to get listened too. (ESP for people who are not HYPERACTIVE.)


I feel like suing Queen's University, i am so angry with their DISABILITY Office delaying me. (Finally i found an alternate way to get Tested...)

The lost years and lost income and the fact that this Disorder has almost taken my life, several times, makes me bitter. Um, yeah.


Emma

katatak
02-08-06, 02:36 AM
Hi ALL:

I am so disappointed with our Canadian Health Care System, because that most of our medical doctors do not believe in ADHD in Adults. I am stressing psychiatrists that don't keep up with the latest information for ADHD. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD by a neuro-psychologist back in December 2003. He told me to see a psychiatrist to help me with medication. Anyway, I waited 6 weeks to see a psychiatrist and gave him my report from my pyschologist. Well, the psychiatrist questioned the testing methods of my psychologist and the psychiatrist said that ADHD is only prevalent in children.

Perhaps he needs to have the research, not some of it, all of it, faxed to him. (you see, us inattentive types can be downright sneaky and devilish!)

I told the psychiatrist that I was tested for 8.5 hours in a hospital and he said that he believes I don't have it. He thinks I have a mood disorder. I was furious because he never acknowleged my psychologist report. This assessment was paid by the Alberta Government and is documented on my file.

They don't believe because they do not want to. They've been brainwashed by all the disinformation out there!

I am looking forward to meeting this doctor because all my life I have suffered harshly from the education system, workplace and from my peers. I want to get on with my life and live it normally and peacefully instead of being restless.
Galexica


For all their so called education, Doctors are some of the most stubborn and elitist people I know. They are fequently unwilling to admit they could be wrong and far to willign to pull out the Hypocratic Oath and use it to deny treatment.

I knew 30 years ago I had ADHD and it took me until last year to get a diagnosis. Now that I have a diagnosis, its difficult for me to get the right dose because I have already exceeded the Candadian Guidelines for Dexedrine. One expert told me I should be psychotic, but then noted that I was sitting calmly in front of her! She proceeded to do nothing to help solve the problem.

One of the problems is that we (adults with ADHD) probably know more about our own disorder than some of the phsycians that treat us. I know, I have been funnenling reports and researach papers to my GP for over a year now. I think some of it is finally getting him to take a second look at some of these issues.

Fortunately I have a psychiatrist who supports me fully , but now its the rulings fo the College that work against me getting propper and complete treatement.

You realise that those doing research projects involving kids with ADHD, have been treating their parents for the disorder far longer than they've admitted to the world that they kenw adults could have the disorder. That is shameful!

I'll stop now, because I just get angrier and angrier the more I think about it.

Keep fighting! don't give up! Doctors are said to be the most diffiult patients! One other thing, keep yourself educated about the latest researach on ADHD. There are some intesting develepments, especially for adults.

cheers,
Katatak

QueensU_girl
03-03-06, 09:03 PM
If your doctor does not "believe" in ADD/ADHD, you could ask them if they believe in "Executive Dysfunction", or Frontal Lobe problems.

I seriously doubt they would say No to that question.

Other disorders also feature Frontal Lobe dysfunction.

Emma

Humble1
04-06-06, 09:48 AM
Interesting thoughts to share ... Right now I have a picture of the “who's who” in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:City w:st=Montreal</ST1:p</st1:City> when talking ADD. The problem is accessing them, there are no available psychiatrists <st1:City w:st="on">Montreal</ST1:p</st1:City> dealing with ADDers and even though I find myself lucky to have support from a number of individuals the system seems to be built so that you don't access the professionals.

<O:p></O:p>

The other thing I have learned is that a psychiatrist will not help you to deal with the healing process he will however be the guardian of your chemistry and the evaluation master (Which is why you need to have someone who is familiar with ADD), you need a psychologist to do the essential part (Working on your sanity:). <O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

One other thing: in this province you can be a psycho therapist WITHOUT ANY PROFESSIONNAL BACKGROUND. So when seeking for help look for a psychologist not a "psycho therapist"<O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

Humble1 <O:p></O:p>

addinbc
04-06-06, 07:45 PM
It is SO HARD to get listened too. (ESP for people who are not HYPERACTIVE.)



The lost years and lost income and the fact that this Disorder has almost taken my life, several times, makes me bitter. Um, yeah.



Oh my gosh, Emma, TELL ME ABOUT IT!!

As far as I'm concerned, the state of psychiatry these days is SHOCKING!!!!! How is it that I frequently know more about the disorders I discuss with these doctors than they seem to??? How can that be permitted by a profession?? I don't understand. It all makes me SCREAMING mad :mad: :mad: :mad: !

QueensU_girl
04-09-06, 12:00 AM
Not everyone keeps up with Current Research.

If you want to approach the ADHD topic with a Psychiatrist, it might be better to ask if they BELEIVE IN "Executive Dysfunction", rather than "ADHD/ADD".

Tip: Try to get a Psychiatrist who (a) has been educated in North America (not a 'Foreign Medical Graduate'; they tend to fail their exams; given the shortage of shrinks, this is tolerated; European-trained doctors tend to 'not beleive' in ADHD), and (b) has graduated in the 1990s (or more recently), so they will be more likely up to date on the current ADHD Research.

Also, Psychiatrists who are always 'taking patients' are often the bottom of the barrel. Why? Their patients have dumped them. Bad, nasty or useless doctors can't keep patients.

katatak
04-24-06, 06:45 AM
It is probably time for some political action. We've all been ignored long enough! The only way to get things done is to make noise! And its true, the groups who have gotten most attention for low profile issues have been the ones that have made the most noise.

The question is are we read to become politically active in our own cause? Even the most unpopular groups have been able to accomplish much because of their willingness to write letters, ask questions, and demonstrate!

Cheers,
Katatak

bcaddkid
04-26-06, 04:21 PM
The more you look around, the more you'll find qualified, caring professionals that know their **** when it comes to adhd. They're a rare breed, usually centered around bigger cities, but they exist. You need to look around very, very hard, and expect ridiculous wait times. But it's worth the effort.

GlenW
07-10-06, 12:59 PM
galexica - there are many good psychiatrists and doctors in alberta and in canada generally. But as there are bad mechanics and plumbers there are bad medical professionals. Every profession has its bad apples and they tend to ruin the bunch from first sight.

I got lucky first out the gate. My doctor is younger and had been informed about ADHD. He wouldn't just Rx me - which is great - but rather passed me to a fantastic psych in Lethbridge (nearest to me at one hour's trip). He also was younger and had been trained in both ADHD treatment and Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) - the best behaviour modification treatment that works wonders for me at least.

The trick is don't go to the older medical people. That sounds anti-logical as it used to be the older ones were more experienced but they tend to be resistant. The younger ones got the ADHD info in university and aren't usually so gun shy about Rxing the meds we need.

I hope you keep looking and find a good one. It's good to shop.

QueensU_girl
07-17-06, 06:34 PM
Yes. And avoid Doctors who are constantly "taking patients". Their patients have already fired them. <G> That is why their waiting rooms are empty...

Imnapl
07-17-06, 06:57 PM
Yes. And avoid Doctors who are constantly "taking patients". Their patients have already fired them. <g> That is why their waiting rooms are empty...With doctor shortages and wait lists, how does one know who isn't busy?
</g>

QueensU_girl
07-17-06, 11:07 PM
I'd have to know which province you are in, so i can answer that. Each province has it's own College website for Doctor's.


If you tell me what Province you are in, i can look up that info.

QueensU_girl
07-17-06, 11:11 PM
re: #15, 3rd Paragraph

Yes. My SO graduated his psychiatry in 1998. He is the first generation of Psych. specialists who were taught that "Whoa, Kids don't always Outgrow ADHD."

Also, i'd choose Canadian Medical Graduates. Some Foreign Medical Grads (incl. UK-grads; Euro-grads) are taught that Adult ADHD is an almost non-existent thing.

Imnapl
07-18-06, 12:59 AM
I'd have to know which province you are in, so i can answer that. Each province has it's own College website for Doctor's.


If you tell me what Province you are in, i can look up that info.B.C. Thanks.

northrose
07-18-06, 04:04 AM
Hey you guys!!! I like saying that. I got married 92. Moved from Canada to Arkansas. I`ve been a single mom since 1999 to my beautiful 10 year old daughter, who is also ADD. The same down south,,,, at least from a canadian perspective. My daughter had no resistance when it came to treating her ADD with medication,,, Adderall didn`t work,,, Ritalin IR does. I was diagnosed with ADD a short while after her. My first three appointments were nothing but a joke. They all wanted to treat me with Strattera, which costs about $140 a month,,,, Yea, I`ll just take that money from the food budget,,, no we need to eat! Ok, I`ll take it from the house payment,,, no we need a place to live! I remember looking at them and thinking "Do I have to explain this to you?" Well, after two months I found a straight-up, cool GP who knows what "Cost Effective Treatment" is. I`m taking Adderall IR and it seems to be working. Will we have to be re-tested when move back to Canada? Just thinking about this stresses me!! Anyone have answers?

northrose
07-20-06, 11:19 AM
Hello??

QueensU_girl
07-22-06, 03:38 PM
Bring paperwork. Docs are usually good about sending copies of your Testing and Files. (Although there may be a small cost for copying.)

You don't mention which Province you are returning to. re: service availability

northrose
07-26-06, 06:11 PM
Thankyou Emma, I`ll be going to either Mb or Ont.

QueensU_girl
07-30-06, 12:05 AM
RE: IMNAPL

Here is the BC Doctor's regulatory College. The Physician's Directory shows who is taking patients.

https://www.cpsbc.ca/cps/physician_directory

Contact Info:

<TABLE class=content><TBODY><TR class=content><TD class=content>College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia </TD><TD class=content><TABLE class=content><TBODY><TR class=content><TD class=content>400-858 Beatty St
Vancouver BC V6B 1C1

-Phone: 604.733.7758
-Toll Free: 800.461.3008
-Fax: 604.733.3503 </TD><TD class=content></TD><TD class=content> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

QueensU_girl
07-30-06, 12:07 AM
re: northrose

re: Manitoba

Check in GOOGLE using the keywords : Manitoba college physicians

===
re: Ontario

www.cpso.on.ca (http://www.cpso.on.ca)

Keldryn
10-16-06, 05:08 PM
My family doctor (who I've been seeing for over ten years) was the one who originally suggested a possible diagnosis of ADHD (Inattentive), but wanted me to visit a psychiatrist and set up a referral. After waiting for over six months for my appointment, I finally got in to see the psychiatrist. She worked out of a walk-in/family clinic rather than a private office, and her office was right on the other side of the wall from the chairs in the waiting room. There were literally other patients sitting right on the other side of the door from me, which certainly made me feel less comfortable about talking to her.

Not that it mattered anyway. She had obviously made up her mind right from the start that I was depressed. She went through her formal checklist of questions to ask me, not interested in anything else I had to say that might be relevant, such as how my girlfriend (now wife) had been severely depressed for most of the preceeding year. This was the first visit, the "consultation" and she told me we didn't have time to go into a lot of "the details."

I told her that my doctor had suggested ADD as an alternative to the usual anixety or depression default diagnoses. She just said "you don't have ADHD," wrote me a prescription for Effexor, and sent me on my way. I was only face-to-face with her for maybe twenty minutes -- I don't know how she's supposed to get an accurate diagnosis in that amount of time. She told me to come back in 2 or 3 weeks for a quick check-up to see how I'm responding to my meds, but a longer appointment would have to wait. Her office called me a day or two before my follow-up appointment to cancel and re-schedule because the psychiatrist was going to be away, but then they called my doctor's office and told them I didn't show up for my appointment.

Needless to say, I didn't go back. Complete waste of time. I was at a pretty low point, emotionally, when I had my appointment with her, so I filled the prescription for Effexor and started taking it. I think I've actually been worse off than I was before. The inattentiveness hasn't improved, and while my mood has stabilized, it has been at a rather apathetic level, without any of the really bad days -- but also without any of the really good days. I asked my family doctor if I could start to go off the Effexor and try addressing the symptoms of inattentiveness directly again, and he's started reducing my daily Effexor dose and has me taking Dexedrine again. I think that psychiatrist set me back almost a year. If you start off a consultation looking for symptoms of depression, you're going to find them.

QueensU_girl
10-20-06, 01:41 AM
Sorry to hear about your crummy experience.

Many old school health care professionals who graduated years ago do not keep up with their Continuing Education credits very well -- and thus, do not beleive in Adult ADHD. (It has been recognized since the early 1990s, though, in the clinical literature. eg. Thomas Brown)

Honestly, some Family Doctors who keep current on new research are likely to be more up to date on Adult ADHD and Executive Function problems than some Psychiatrists.

Obviously your Psychiatrist that you saw likely sees many people with apparent "mood disorders" -- so when she's seeing what looks like a person suffering and in distress, everything is going to get labelled primarily as "depression".

Effexor is the best a family doctor or psychiatrist is going to give you at a Walk In, for ADHD, anyway. (Or Wellbutrin.)

Both are Rx'd off-label for Adult ADHD.

NB. Depression is often secondary to ADHD, so you may have both. Many of us have Depression/Anxiety (or both) due to our life problems caused by ADHD (and impaired Executive Function in the frontal lobe). However, you are correct -- just treating or addressing the secondary Depression, caused initially by the ADHD's problems that it can create in people's lives (eg acheivement, etc), is bound to fail in helping an ADHDer, overall.

Sorry to hear you met an invalidating jerk.

I think it best to stick with your Family Doctor. Sounds like s/he is on the ball more than anyone, and WILL prescribe you a trial of a stimulant -- lucky you!

The only way to "prove" Adult ADHD is with paperwork (a report) from an Educational Psychologist. Reports start at $600-1200. Colleges and Universities will pay for the Testing Report if you are eligible for Provincial Student Loan assistance...

Keldryn
10-31-06, 07:49 PM
Thanks, Emma. I've certainly been experiencing pretty severe depressive symptoms recently, but I feel that it has mroe to do with feeling unfulfilled and uninterested in my day-to-day life. Spending a day at work generally makes me feel dead inside, and I don't think that anti-depressants are going to be a good solution. In fact, I've gone backwards since starting on the Effexor, so I'm in the process of getting off of it.

Do you think it's really worthwhile to get "proof" through an evaluation from an Educational Psychologist? What would it actually do for me?

Imnapl
10-31-06, 09:55 PM
A few years ago, my son was assessed by an educational psychologist for a lot less than $600. He was able to take the paper work to his doctor and start a trial of medication.

Maple Syrup
12-19-06, 04:52 PM
I know this thread hasn't been active for a while, but I thought I'd put in my $0.02 anyway.

There seems to be a lot of frustration around getting a proper diagnosis, or just being taken seriously in general.

I was doing online research about procrastination when I came across some ADHD articles & realized this was my problem.

I found the official DSM-IV criteria for ADHD, and then made a chart. On the left side were the symptoms, and on the right side I listed examples of how I fit the symptoms. I tried to include as much as I could remember from when I was a kid, since ADHD is not an adult-onset condition.

With my "case" in hand, I went to my doctor. She confirmed my self-diagnosis, put me on meds & has refered me to an ADHD specialist. We're experimenting with meds & dosages, and the specialist's wait-list is over a year long, but I at least feel like I'm taking baby steps in the right direction.

Not only was I able to successfully diagnose myself on the first try, I was able to identify my sub-type (hyper) as opposed to inattentive. This was easy to do, because I didn't have very many examples to use under the inattentive criteria category.

I wonder if ADHD symptoms are hindering us from properly articulating our concerns to the health care providers. I know I have a lot of trouble getting words out of my brain and into my mouth. I was a lot better prepared to 'defend' my 'case' with the written 'evidence' instead of trying to explain my concerns verbally to my doc.

Might be worth a try for those of you who are frustrated to try this chart approach. Then you're speaking to them in their own "language". I also think it shows you're serious because you've done research and you're not just trying to get diagnosed with the 'disease du jour'.

Cheers!