We use the Feingold program with great success.

While this diet can be effective for a select few - some thing like 4% of the ADD population and it is most likely to be useful in families with histories of migraine head aches and/or food allergies.

quote:
While this diet can be effective for a select few - some thing like 4% of the ADD population and it is most likely to be useful in families with histories of migraine head aches and/or food allergies.

I am not a facts and figures kind of person. However I realise studies are important to many people and for good reasons. I think the 4% figure is probably low.

Studies regarding the effects of foods http://www.feingold.org/Research/research.html
Lancet study http://fooddemocracy.wordpress.com/2007/10/03/study-shows-food-additives-may-make-kids-hyper/
American Academy of Pediatrics/ Developemental center at Children’s Hospital in Boston
http://aapgrandrounds.aappublications.org/cgi/content/extract/19/2/17


The lancet is a very reputable study that has received alot of recent attention and is causing some members of British Parliment to call for the removal of unnecessary artificial colors and perservatives in processed foods.

However, I'm not holding my breath waiting for everyone to agree on anything. My sons life is happening now. For me, I don't need studies or percents on how many people are helped by diet or this or that. I listen to everything and try to decide what is worth a shot.
My doctor told me colors effect about 1% of kids, that was before the Lancet study. She never mentioned it to me. So I'm lucky I even tried it.

But here is my person informal and completly unscientific pole about Feingold. I am not including anyone but people who I know from real life that I see in person.

I have reccomended Feingold to 5 people who have joined. Here are the results.

My sister- her son gets angry, aggitated, can't follow through on tasks etc. when he eats artificials. He has complete melt downs that out do a two year olds best tantrum and he is 12. (no food allergies or migraines)

My cousin- She did not tell her sons teacher she put him on the program. She went to a confrence a couple months later and the teacher thought he had been medicated. He made a huge improvement in school. He was at times hyper, but attention was the biggest issue there. She also has noticed one of her daughters also has problems after consuming artificials so she is now on the program. (no food allergies or migraines)

My sons teacher put her own son on the program. He is 12. I bumped into she and her husband and they both started nodding in agreement mentioning that he had ate something he wasn't supposed to and had a horrible reaction. They said they definately saw a connection. (no food allergies or migraines)

My sister in law- My nieces asthma and excema went away as well as her behavior problems. She was a very emotional child. She cried through a 3 hour car ride at yellow stone park it was horrible. She was having emotional troubles at school and home. Now she is not emotional and she just got student of the month. (allergies to eggs and lactose)

another play group mom- She just started the program about a month ago and her sons behavior has greatly improved. Her husband couldn't believe the diffrence. They are stage one of the program. (He did have alot of allergies as a baby and I suspect they will need to remove more than artificials from his diet. All this is a process and takes time. She however is very happy with what she has seen so far.)

So that is my informal pole. Which says 5 out of 5 people were helped.

I just don't want people to be discouraged from trying something that is really just healthy eating anyway.

Shirley
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Shirley, I admire your enthusiasm, but what does this have to do with ADHD/ADD?

The Lancet studies indicate that colors and perservatives can cause hyperactivity in children with or without ADHD. If your child is hyperactive I would think this to be relevent to ADHD.

Sorry, I used symptoms instead of diagnosis in talking about my friends and families. I guess I find the symptoms that were helped to be the most valuable to me.

I use the diet to treat my son who is ADHD. It is helping with his hyperactive and inattentive behaviors. He is able to focus at school and gets his work done. (we have some catch up to do, but he is getting all his work done)

My sister uses the diet to treat her ADD son. She does it in conjunction with medication. She finds the behavioral issues associated with her sons ADD flaire up when he goes off diet. The behaviors are very explosive.

My cousins son is ADD and his school work has improved. She uses the program without medication. Her sons teacher thought he had been given medication.

My playgroup friend does not have a formal dx for her son. She mentions the usual behaviors that are associated with ADHD like hyperactivity, focus, behavior problems that have been improved.

My son's teachers son is ADD.

My niece has no diagnosis. She is only 4. She had emotional behaviors which improved, which I think is relevant because many ADD and ADHD kids are emotional. And regardless of ADD/ADHD it shows me that artificial ingredients were effecting her in terms of excema, asthma and behavior. Many kids with ADD/ADHD have these symptoms as well.

I look at it two ways diagnosis and symptoms. The symptoms of anger, frustration, irritability, focus, hyperactivity, and behavioral issues are common with a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD.

My enthusiam is more that I'm P.O. that the FDA allows these ingredients into our foods. Many of them are solely there for marketing purposes and with so many children with diseases in our society I don't think the benefits out weigh the risk.

I spent many chaotic years with my son because of artificial ingredients. Both my son and myself (depressed, stressed) could have been needlessly medicated. I found out about this from googling! I think of all the times my son almost ran in front of a car. He could literally be dead. He stopped running in the parking lot when we changed his diet. So you can say enthusiasm, but I'd say I'm really P.O.

BTW, I am not anti med, I would infact give my son medication if I felt I needed to.

The Lancet studies indicate that colors and perservatives can cause hyperactivity in children with or without ADHD. If your child is hyperactive I would think this to be relevent to ADHD.Yes, hyperactivity is a very small part of ADHD. Many people on these forums are not hyperactive.

I use the diet to treat my son who is ADHD. It is helping with his hyperactive and inattentive behaviors. He is able to focus at school and gets his work done. (we have some catch up to do, but he is getting all his work done)That is wonderful news. There are some people who would say that if all of the ADHD symptoms are gone, then the diagnosis was not the right one. Medication and behavior modification do not remove all of someone's ADHD/ADD symptoms - we are still ADHD/ADD.

My sister uses the diet to treat her ADD son. She does it in conjunction with medication. She finds the behavioral issues associated with her sons ADD flaire up when he goes off diet. The behaviors are very explosive.If you search the forums, you will find posts made by me on the subject of severe allergies based on personal experience. My children were young adults when I was diagnosed with ADHD so we went through their childhood without medication or any diagnosis. My daughter's behavior was obviously affected by allergies, but it was when I became knowledgeable about ADHD that I was able to understand the difference between ADHD and a raging immune system and so is she.

My cousins son is ADD and his school work has improved. She uses the program without medication. Her sons teacher thought he had been given medication.Here's a great opportunity to give us some specific examples of the teacher's observations. How much experience does this teacher have with ADHD and kids on medication? I'm an adult and I have to gently convince people I am on medication - even people who have known me for years. Lots of kids are regularly taking medication, but they prefer to keep that private from the school.

My playgroup friend does not have a formal dx for her son. She mentions the usual behaviors that are associated with ADHD like hyperactivity, focus, behavior problems that have been improved.Playgroup as in preschoolers?

My son's teachers son is ADD.As in without hyperactivity? Is he on medication or is the Feingold Diet all he needs?

My niece has no diagnosis. She is only 4. She had emotional behaviors which improved, which I think is relevant because many ADD and ADHD kids are emotional. And regardless of ADD/ADHD it shows me that artificial ingredients were effecting her in terms of excema, asthma and behavior. Many kids with ADD/ADHD have these symptoms as well.I hear you. I am experiencing eczema for the first time in 24 years and it looks like it's here to stay in the winter months. It is difficult not to get irritable when your skin is itchy and sore and you don't want to take an anti-histamine because it's hard to function in the brain fog that it creates. My daughter gets a severe reaction to aspartame, as does my mother, and guess what was listed in the ingredients of the anti-biotic she was prescribed for strep throat? She couldn't figure out why she was getting worse instead of better until I went searching. We thought she only had to watch out for penicillin. Why is aspartame needed in a capsule?

My husband and I made our own baby food for both of our children. My daughter was a high maintenance baby because of a messed up immune system and we were lucky I could stay at home with her. The addition of a new food was a waiting game to see how her body would react. She didn't need to go through an elimination diet because I challenged everything that touched her skin or went in her mouth and recorded the results.

My husband was a professional chef so we use very little processed food in our cooking. He is passionate about gardening so our children grew up with organic vegetables from the garden. My husband felt truly fulfilled the first time he canned his own produce to use in his cooking. The circle of chef life, I guess. :D

My enthusiam is more that I'm P.O. that the FDA allows these ingredients into our foods. Many of them are solely there for marketing purposes and with so many children with diseases in our society I don't think the benefits out weigh the risk.Well, Tilly, you are preaching to the choir here. How about using all of that wonderful energy and enthusiasm to put pressure on the FDA. If every post someone writes is about the same thing, people stop listening.

I didn't think you were anti-med, because if you were, you wouldn't find a whole lot of people to talk to on ADDForums. Most people here are pro-treatment and some people are really struggling because they know meds are working for others, but they haven't found one that will work for them.

Yes, hyperactivity is a very small part of ADHD. Many people on these forums are not hyperactive.
But wouldn't the information about hyperactivity be helpful to the people who do struggle with hyperactivity?

That is wonderful news. There are some people who would say that if all of the ADHD symptoms are gone, then the diagnosis was not the right one. Medication and behavior modification do not remove all of someone's ADHD/ADD symptoms - we are still ADHD/ADD. All of my sons symptoms are not gone, they are greatly improved or gone. So I do still consider him to be ADHD.

If you search the forums, you will find posts made by me on the subject of severe allergies based on personal experience. My children were young adults when I was diagnosed with ADHD so we went through their childhood without medication or any diagnosis. My daughter's behavior was obviously affected by allergies, but it was when I became knowledgeable about ADHD that I was able to understand the difference between ADHD and a raging immune system and so is she.
I'm glad you figured this out.

Here's a great opportunity to give us some specific examples of the teacher's observations. How much experience does this teacher have with ADHD and kids on medication? I'm an adult and I have to gently convince people I am on medication - even people who have known me for years. Lots of kids are regularly taking medication, but they prefer to keep that private from the school.
My cousins son's teacher noticed that his learning ability had improved. He was doing better in reading and math. I don't know for sure how many ADHD kids she has worked with and who was medicated, but I would be surprised if any teacher in America didn't have a fair amount of experience and training in this area. But the bottom line is that I'm just trying to say that my cousin's son made such a quick improvement that the teacher supposed he was taking medication.

Playgroup as in preschoolers?
This person is a friend from playgroup, but her son is 7 years old.

As in without hyperactivity? Is he on medication or is the Feingold Diet all he needs?
He is currently using the feingold program. She has seen improvements in behavior. He is not on any medication and I believe it would be too early to tell if Feingold is all he needs.

I hear you. I am experiencing eczema for the first time in 24 years and it looks like it's here to stay in the winter months. It is difficult not to get irritable when your skin is itchy and sore and you don't want to take an anti-histamine because it's hard to function in the brain fog that it creates. My daughter gets a severe reaction to aspartame, as does my mother, and guess what was listed in the ingredients of the anti-biotic she was prescribed for strep throat? She couldn't figure out why she was getting worse instead of better until I went searching. We thought she only had to watch out for penicillin. Why is aspartame needed in a capsule?
Sorry to hear that. I can't think of any reason aspartame would be needed in a capsule. Kids with feeding tubes get artificial flavoring in their food that they will never taste as well.

My husband and I made our own baby food for both of our children. My daughter was a high maintenance baby because of a messed up immune system and we were lucky I could stay at home with her. The addition of a new food was a waiting game to see how her body would react. She didn't need to go through an elimination diet because I challenged everything that touched her skin or went in her mouth and recorded the results.
That's difficult. A friend of mine went through this with her son who is allergic to just about everything.
My husband was a professional chef so we use very little processed food in our cooking. He is passionate about gardening so our children grew up with organic vegetables from the garden. My husband felt truly fulfilled the first time he canned his own produce to use in his cooking. The circle of chef life, I guess. :D

Well, Tilly, you are preaching to the choir here. How about using all of that wonderful energy and enthusiasm to put pressure on the FDA. If every post someone writes is about the same thing, people stop listening.
I honestly don't know how to go about trying to put pressure on the FDA. I also don't know that I would be the right person for that. But if you have any tips on how to do that let me know. I just want to make sure that anyone who doesn't know about the effects artificial ingredients can have hears about it.
If someone doesn't want to read my posts, they can skip it. But there are people who join here everyday, they may be interested in hearing about this. I would imagine that at least a few people find my posts helpful. I don't have to appeal to the masses.
I didn't think you were anti-med, because if you were, you wouldn't find a whole lot of people to talk to on ADDForums. Most people here are pro-treatment and some people are really struggling because they know meds are working for others, but they haven't found one that will work for them.
I agree in being pro-treatment, which means any type of treatment including giving me the chance to share the one thing that has helped my son. Just like anyone else shares their personal experience with medication and/or diet.

Thanks for sharing, Tilly.

Tilly, for the benefit of those who don't know much about Feingold other than the name, could you give us a brief rundown of the basics of the program so we know what it's like?

While this diet can be effective for a select few - some thing like 4% of the ADD population and it is most likely to be useful in families with histories of migraine head aches and/or food allergies.I've no idea how many folks with ADD it helps, but it does make a difference for our family, but then again we have migraines and food allergies! :rolleyes:

BTW is that statement an opinion or do you have some research Meadd823? I'm asking because what you said really does describe our family so well and I'd like to read more if there is another source in addition to your own observations.

Hmmmm --- ADDers are about 5% or the population. ADDers who are very impacted by diet are about 5% (from what I've read). I'm tired of being in these particular minorities!

However, I'm not holding my breath waiting for everyone to agree on anything. My sons life is happening now. For me, I don't need studies or percents on how many people are helped by diet or this or that. I listen to everything and try to decide what is worth a shot.
My doctor told me colors effect about 1% of kids, that was before the Lancet study. She never mentioned it to me. So I'm lucky I even tried it.


You know not one single person here has to agree with you to make your observations valid - seems like you would know weather or not this dietary approach is working - I have no reason to doubt your word.

I am a facts and figures kind of gal - for a variety of reasons- in this case I was simply sharing what I knew -


I use the diet to treat my son who is ADHD. It is helping with his hyperactive and inattentive behaviors. He is able to focus at school and gets his work done. (we have some catch up to do, but he is getting all his work done)



My contribution if 4% of the ADD population being dietary responders was quoted from

"ADHD Throughout the Lifespan"
by Patricia Quinn MD and Nancy Ratey EdM,ABDA,MCC


I am not saying dietary approaches can not work nor am I claiming they do not work - in reality the opposite is true - I am providing scientific evidence that dietary approaches actually do work - on a small percentage of the ADD population - it is apparent by your post you and your son fall into this 4%. I am not invalidating your claims - I am illustrating how your claims are defiantly possible.


My sister uses the diet to treat her ADD son. She does it in conjunction with medication. She finds the behavioral issues associated with her sons ADD flaire up when he goes off diet. The behaviors are very explosive.

My cousins son is ADD and his school work has improved. She uses the program without medication. Her sons teacher thought he had been given medication.

My niece has no diagnosis. She is only 4. She had emotional behaviors which improved, which I think is relevant because many ADD and ADHD kids are emotional. And regardless of ADD/ADHD it shows me that artificial ingredients were effecting her in terms of excema, asthma and behavior. Many kids with ADD/ADHD have these symptoms as well.


The quotes above seem to indicate that other members of your family respond favorably to the elimination of certain substance - allergies often do run in families - there are other possible reasons but sensitivity to dyes and preservatives may be very reasonable.


Well, Tilly, you are preaching to the choir here. How about using all of that wonderful energy and enthusiasm to put pressure on the FDA. If every post someone writes is about the same thing, people stop listening.



While I see absolutely nothing wrong with sharing what has worked for you I also understand what Imnapl is trying so say . . . balance is prudent. There is such a thing as over kill and it can make people see hidden agenda where there isn't any.



just don't want people to be discouraged from trying something that is really just healthy eating anyway.


Eliminating artificial colors and strange unpronounceable preservatives really sounds like a good idea - I but when you say Feingold diet you are suggesting a little more than that.

If I understand correctly this diet eliminates some natural substances as well - things like raw fruits -

The Feingold Program/Diet only looks at salicylates

Foods that contain salicylates includes many fresh fruits and vegetables

To see fruit and vegetable list click here. (http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionsensitivities.htm)


My enthusiam is more that I'm P.O. that the FDA allows these ingredients into our foods. Many of them are solely there for marketing purposes and with so many children with diseases in our society I don't think the benefits out weigh the risk.


Directing this energy in the direction that is the most productive will benefit the true cause . . . if you are angry at the FDA while honestly speaking about it here is a wonderful idea but the bottom line nothing will change if no one takes action.

Making changes in the established "status quo can look daunting. Pushing for positive changes isn't easy but I can assure you it is well worth the effort - nothing compares to being part of a positive change and seeing it happen before your eyes -


Tilly I want you to be free to share your experiences because they are as valid as mine - I have learned a lot form this interaction already because I have taken you seriously and looked up many references on this Feingold diet because of your presentation - but over kill can be a turn off and dilute your point of view -

Please consider this post I wrote , (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=559097&postcount=4) that apparently began this thread


Can you tell me by reading either of these responses weather or not I take medication for my ADD?

If I do which one?


Balance and variety keep people interested and engaged.

BTW is that statement an opinion or do you have some research Meadd823?

Quoted my source above -try page 188 some where there abouts. {I have the clinical workbook series}

Hey I savvy food sensitivities - if I eat oranges other citrus foods my attention span deceases and my hyperactivity increases - more than likely due to the itchy rash but whelps do have an effect on my ADD so I have no doubts as to the effects of foods upon the attention span.

I do want to appologize if I am coming across as having an "agenda" or if I talk too much about feingold. I will consider this when I make future posts.

"ADHD Throughout the Lifespan"
by Patricia Quinn MD and Nancy Ratey EdM,ABDA,MCC

Just curious, what is the study they refer to?

Feingold does a trial ellimination of some foods that are healthy. I'll brake down the program so it is better understood.

stage one- eat foods that contain no artificial ingredients. They provide you with a book in which eat product is researched for it's ingredients. There are many hidden ingredients in foods.

Also swap out personal and home products to remove chemicals. For example many scents are made from petroleum which is what the artificial colors are made from. If you use unapproved detergents you are absorbing the petroleum through your skin for example. This generally means buy All Free and Clear or something like that.

Salycilates: Are naturally occuring. Some fruits and vegtables have more than others. Some folks are sensitive to some, all, none, or too many.
Examples of sals are apples, oranges, tomatos, berries.
There are many other fruits that are acceptable during this stage.

When you have seen success with stage one you move on to stage 2.
Stage 2
add these fruits back in one by one. See if the target has difficulty with them.

(my son cannot eat too many apples or oranges. I noticed this before I joined feingold. I was happy to understand this when I got my materials.)

After stage two if you are still not happy then you look into removing other common targets. This could include gluten, caesin, nitrates, corn syrup etc.

Hopefully you find success at stage 2. We are stage 2 no gluten. I did get most of my results prior to going no gluten. I am currently working with digestive enzymes to try to get gluten back in. Just started 3 weeks ago.

Thank you all for your imput.

Just curious, what is the study they refer to?


Pick your approach - I have two pages of notes on your sources and counter sources but choose a more personal approach because you said you were not into studies.


I am prepared now to go either way or both but both will make for some dreadfully long post.

Please do not take this "challenge" personal - in your post in general ADD you said you wanted to spread the word about Feirgold diet okay well now is your chance - as a group we are a hard sale - ask Frazzle - she went through much of the same stuff with Doré - although I am not convinced for myself Doré is right for me I know more about the Doré programme theories behind it and the cerebellum more than the average bear. I also understand her line of reasoning which is very different than my own but it is none the less valid and logical .

The object of the exchange is a semi-intellectually challenging exchange were we both learn new stuff -

Please consider this post I wrote , that apparently began this thread


Can you tell me by reading either of these responses weather or not I take medication for my ADD?

If I do which one?


Balance and variety keep people interested and engaged.





Part of my ADD treatment is Adderall - I have great success with it. While I am more than wiling to share my experiences in appropriate discussions I did not begin my conversation with you announcing the wonders of Adderall - had I done so there is a pretty good chance it would have appeared as if I was trying to sale you a pig in a poke -


People want to know about the person behind the Feirgold diet. . . . your frustrations your strategies Do you hate talking on the phone What do you do when your kid pitches a fit in the grocery store? Most here are interested in you the person behind the ADD and ADD treatment. That is all I meant I was trying to be less blunt - less blunt never works out very well - as you can tell.

I think I need to find that book by Patricia Quinn -- I heard her speak at the ADDA convention and liked her very much. She seemed very balanced.

I'm positively staking out my position in the middle of this discussion. I think finding out how different foods (especially non natural ones) effect you is useful and for some folks can make a huge difference.

I also know that nothing has jerked my brain into gear like Adderall -- of course there are some side effects (additional headaches), so the jury is still out on whether those will ease. I've noticed that diet seems to effect my youngest kid more than it does her sister or I. Diet helps us some too, but it's not as pronouced. Exercise is actually the biggest non medication factor that helps me (well, that and prayer!:)) -- especially combined with Omega III fatty acids.

I've noticed that diet seems to effect my youngest kid more than it does her sister or I.Scattered, does your daughter display a worsening of ADHD behaviors when her allergies / sensitivities kick in? I'm really trying to understand what others are experiencing because I do have experience with both ADHD and allergic reactions. The definition of behavior is something that can be observed and measured. If I am recording observations, I must be more specific than 'became more hyperactive'. And yes, one can have hyperactivity without having ADHD.

I'm glad threads like this come up so we can discuss the symptoms of ADHD for new members. I received a message from another member who was confused about a statement I made about several members of ADDForums who do not have hyperactivity with ADD. The note stated that H is a common component to childhood ADHD that wanes in adulthood. I'm glad you asked.

According to the DSM-IV, there are three types of ADHD:
1. ADHD, Combined Type
2. ADHD, Predominantly Inattentive (usually referred to as ADD without the H)
3. ADHD, Predomoninantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type

Personally, I always forget about poor number 3 which doesn't seem to get much air time, but we all know they are out there doing wild and wonderful things.

I'm a little too ADD this evening to read this entire thread, but I will share anyhow.

I was on the Feingold diet from the age of 4-17. It did not work for me at all. My family does have a history of migraines and food allergies (I have both). However, my allergies have nothing to do with the Feingold diet and neither do the triggers for my migraines. It was difficult as a child always having to be on a special diet and often embarrassing because I was never allowed to eat anything at friend's houses-- if I went to a sleepover party, I had to bring all my own food. My mother was constantly obsessing over our diets, and I think this probably contributed in some measure to my development of anorexia as a teenager (it started before then, though).

As an adult, I do tend to follow a diet of no artificial colors or preservatives as I do not have a taste for junk food as I never ate it as a child. I have also been diagnosed with Celiac's disease so follow a gluten-free diet. So, despite my good eating habits, I am still severely hyperactive and take adderall to help with that. I am also bipolar and take Seroquel and Lamictal as well.

While I strongly advocate eating a healthy diet free of artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, etc. I can not say, at least in my case, that it ameliorates ADHD symptoms in any way. My aversion to artificial substances stems from my belief that our bodies are simply not meant to process all these man-made, genetically altered foodstuffs that have found their way into the modern american diet. After all, the pace of technological innovation far outstrips that of evolution.

Scattered, does your daughter display a worsening of ADHD behaviors when her allergies / sensitivities kick in?

My five year old has several reactions depending on what she ingested and the amount. Yellow dye #5 tends to make her very hyperactive in the running, jumping, very sterotypical hyperactive way. Interestingly enough she is much less hyperactive off dyes than either my 10 year old or I were at her age. More problematic though is Red dye #40 -- on this she becomes much more emotionally volatile. During the worst case, she threw chairs to the ground, had uncontrollable sobbing, and kicked her sister in the back when she ventured too near. This is not normal behavior for her.

On dyes my 10 year old tends to be more emotional. She's definately ADD and emotional anyway, but it takes less to trigger her emotions and it is more effort to reign them in when dyes are part of the picture.

I don't buy the whole Feingold diet, especially for all ADD folks. I think it makes a lot of sense that humans weren't meant to consume dyes made from coal tar and petroleum derivatives. Some of the others things he suggests like sugar and such are common sense kinds of things, but some things like satlyaties (spelling?) won't apply to all kids.

I'm currently reading a book called Dr. Bob's Guide to Stop ADHD in 18 Days. It makes somes sense to me although I think it is more likely to improve ADHD symptoms rather than stop it. He pushes Omega III fatty acids which I know from other research I've read and personal experience is an important factor, but for me at least, the Omega III had more impact on my depression than my ADD. Of course depression, even mild depression, makes ADD symptoms much much worse, so by helping that (and it helped a lot!), my ADD improved too -- but it didn't even come close to leaving altogether. I think you have to take all these books with a grain of salt and some common sense.

I began reading labels and stuff that we eat we don't eat hardly any processed foods. Soda are the worse thing we consume. I prefer vegetables and fruits that are fresh - I live in the country and several of my neighbors grow vegetable gardens - peaches grow in my front yard. We eat meat from the store, salt and pepper garlic but that is about it. Our eggs are straight from the chicken hinney {they call them yard eggs} my neighbor owns the chickens and he doesn't give them antibiotics or stuff like that.


So if ya don't eat processed foods and are still hyperactive then what? Matter of fact if i consume too much processed foods I feel worse - if I drink too many sodas I feel less like wiggling because I feel tired drained of energy.


Personally I don't see hyperactivity as being un-natural, I think wiggling is what our bodies are designed to do.

ADD - isn't all about hyperactivity ADD is about the ability to consciously control you direction of focus and length of attention span- ADD isn't about hyperactivity ADD is about selective attention and stimuli filtering. Inattentive filtering valve snaps shut - hyperactive stimuli valve stuck wide open - combined valve takes turns snapping shut and getting stuck wide open.

This Feirgold diet theory don't match up to my personal experience at all I think food allergies can effect behavior {please see my post about citric acid} but I also believe there would be other symptoms besides hyperactivity.

I just went to that Feirgold.org site first rattle out of the sack is them wanting $69.00. They equate hyperactivity with ear infections I am hyperactive and I don't have ear infections - I didn't know what asthma was until I moved to Texas and discovered Johnson grass pollen. Food isn't causing me to have asthma people who mow their lawns full of weeds do.


If you are allergic to salicylates you would be allergic to aspirin - so if salicylates are your problem an aspirin should have ya bouncing off the walls = common sense. So those who are allergic to aspirin my look into eliminating the foods that contain salicylates.

Last of all but certainly not least is this statement copied directly from the feirgold site itself

feingold faq (http://www.feingold.org/pg-faq.html)

What is the success rate for this Program?

The success rate for families following the Program correctly is over 80%.
There is some data that can be found in the studies on diet and behavior: The 1989 Kaplan study tested part, but not all, of the Feingold Program. Their success was 68%. The 1994 Boris study showed that 73% of the children responded favorably. The 1994 Rowe study found that even some of the children in the control group behaved badly after they were given yellow dye, and 75% of the children with ADHD improved on this "Stage-Two Feingold-type" diet.

Volunteers do not receive a paycheck, so they need to have a strong motivation to give their time and energy. Over the past 25 years, there have been thousands of parents, teachers, doctors and other professionals who have donated their time and talents to the Association. What these people received for their time is the satisfaction of seeing the Program work, both in their homes and for other families. It would be nearly impossible to even establish an association, let alone continue the work for all these years, if 98% or 99% failed.

{Well I volunteer a lot of hours here even though it isn't the cure for ADD}

Why does the Feingold Program have critics?

Food additives are very big business. Foods that rely on additives are generally extremely profitable (additives are far cheaper than food). Drugs for treatment of ADHD are also big business. Many of the early studies, quoted by critics today, are from the 1970s. They were designed and funded by the Nutrition Foundation, an industry lobby.
{End Quote}

Geez who doesn't have critics all you need is an opinion to collect critics.

I am sorry but it isn't the diet I have a problem with it is the misinformation. I don't see the makes of Adderall or Ritalin bashing the Feirgold diet - there isn't a doctor on the planet who would recommend processed food over natural ones - My doctor even told me to stay away from foods with red dye.

This is why people assumed Tilly was anti-medication because the group she claims to be a part of appears to be.



Bottom line - if you have the cure for ADD people would be banging down your doors - period - if you have the truth then it should stand on it's own merits Bashing other forms of treatment should not be necessary - your success rate would speak for it self.

The Feirgold people them selves are telling me all I need to know I don't even need science. {but I still have the notes from the research sites I looked up a couple of days ago.

Food allergies - Feirogold diet was based upon the Locke allergy diet - or Mayo diet already now let take a look at that


Interested in diet and ADD well this is the site for you and guess what - it is free as far as I can tell and I am finished with page one - there is alot on this site the best part about it is it begins with the truth.

Special diets (http://www.hyperactivekids.com/sections/nutrition/specialdiets.html)


Several authorities have claimed that the Feingold diet has been 'disproved'. What has been disproved is that when you make the Feingold exclusions for all ADHD children it doesn't help all ADHD children. But saying the diet doesn't work is like taking all children off chicken, and then saying "see, chicken exclusion doesn't help". Of course, it doesn't help if your child isn't sensitive to it.

{IN other wards if your child's hyperactivity isn't caused by food allergies then the Feirgold diet will not help - yep I think that was my argument to begin with. Apparently this diet thing works a lot like the ADD thing- I found a lot more objective scientific information when I looked at studies NOT dealing specifically with ADD}

{Okay more goodies from source}

If your child is sensitive to salicylates, the Feingold diet (which is the Mayo diet) will be very helpful to the child. If you suffer from hives and no one has ever given you this diet, then you will be grateful indeed.

You have to determine if the individual is sensitive to salicylates. If the child is sensitive to salicylates then their hyperactivity will abate if they don't eat any salicylates. The hive patient won't get hives.

Individuals who suffer from hives (urticaria) must follow this diet closely.

Do not eat:



almonds (10 almonds have the chemical content of 1 aspirin).
apples, especially not their seeds;
apricots, especially not their seeds;
blackberries
boysenberries
cherries
currants
dewberries
gooseberries
grapes or raisins
nectarines
oranges
peaches
plums or prunes
raspberries
strawberries
cucumbers or pickles
tomatoes.

Do not eat artificially flavored foods and drinks, particularly not those which contain FD&C Dye No. 5 (Tartrazine).

Do not take any medicines containing aspirin such as Bufferin, Anacin, Excedrine, Alka-Seltzer, Empirin, Darvon and all medicines containing salicylates like Pepto Bismol. Tell every doctor you consult that you are allergic to all sulfa drugs, and drugs with Tartrazine and Salicylates. BE VERY WARY OF NSAID medications, like MOTRIN etc.

STOP USING PERFUMES which are highly chemicalized. Check all labels.

SOME GENERALLY USEFUL INFO REGARDING ASPIRIN AND ITS RELATIVES

{End Quote}

They have diet for irritable Bowel and gout - pretty good stuff . . . in through the out door - yep that would be me.

other good site for dietary information

THE ROLE OF NATURAL SALICYLATES IN FOOD INTOLERANCE (http://www.cs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/resources/foodintol/development.cfm)


Several of the above authors had reported that diets designed to exclude foods containing salicylates and/or additives induced prolonged remission of urticaria in those patients who had shown a positive response to oral challenge with these compounds (Michaelsson and Juhlin, 1973; Doeglas, 1975; Warin, 1976; Warin & Smith, 1976; Ros et al., 1976; Doeglas, 1977). Seventy-five percent of the patients studied by Warin and Smith (1976) became either asymptomatic or improved after being on an appropriate diet for a two-month period. This improvement was similar to the results obtained by Michaelsson and Juhlin (1973) and Doeglas (1975). In 1976, Ros et al. found that in 59 patients with RIU/AO who reacted to challenge with salicylates, preservatives and azo dyes, a diet designed to reduce consumption of these items resulted in complete remission in 24% and improvement in 57%.{End Quote}

~underlining Mine~

Interesting there is no claim of 90% - hmm must be telling the truth. Even ADD medications are only 75-80% effective. {*ideas* }

Some one turned me loose with a subject and a computer


What is food allergy? (http://www.worldallergy.org/public/allergic_diseases_center/foodallergy/)

Typical associations between allergies to inhalants and foods include

Allergens in the Air will be followed by the typical Allergens in foods

Birch pollen - Apple, raw potatoes, carrots, celery, hazelnut, pear, peach, plum, cherry

Mugwort pollen - Celery, apple, peanut, kiwi fruit, carrot, parsley, spices (fennel, coriander, aniseed, cumin)

Ragweed pollen - Melons, (watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew, etc.), bananas

{wow I am allergic to ragweed and I do not like melon except water melon which I can only stand in small quantities - and as I child I hated all melons including water melons. Bananas Gary used to buy me theses all the time but if I tried to eat them too often I gagged - think my body knew some thing me brain didn't}


Latex- Avocado, kiwi fruit, chestnut, papaya, banana

Chironomidae - Crustaceans (shellfish)

{End Quote}

Excellent site explains allergies really well - at the end are some good links to sites concerned with Coeliac.

After ingesting this information about food allergies I think Scattered hit it pretty darn close - if food allergies are present then chance are there are going to be other noticeable problems also- although I believe in a small subset of hyperactive children would benefit from the elimination diet I see 5% as a decent rough estimate and I think I am through for a while

:)okay . . . enjoy :)

Good point about your body telling you not to eat something. The comment about giving a child strawberry milk because that's the only way he would drink milk is a common problem. When my daughter was put on cow's milk, she refused her bottle - this from a kid who would drink anything if it was put in a bottle. I phoned the nutritionist at our local health center and we went through the foods she was already eating that would give her the nutrients found in milk. She also told me that we think kids need a lot more milk than they actually do.

Never force a child or yourself to eat something you don't like. Unfortunately, adults often crave the very foods they are allergic to. My mom used to crave cheese and chocolate and it took her several decades to learn they were migraine triggers for her. Listen to your body.

Good point about your body telling you not to eat something. The comment about giving a child strawberry milk because that's the only way he would drink milk is a common problem. When my daughter was put on cow's milk, she refused her bottle - this from a kid who would drink anything if it was put in a bottle. I phoned the nutritionist at our local health center and we went through the foods she was already eating that would give her the nutrients found in milk. She also told me that we think kids need a lot more milk than they actually do.

Never force a child or yourself to eat something you don't like. Unfortunately, adults often crave the very foods they are allergic to. My mom used to crave cheese and chocolate and it took her several decades to learn they were migraine triggers for her. Listen to your body.


Just wanted to add....that yes, food can trigger migraines but also in my research I've found that a drop in serotonin levels will also bring one one. Which is why doctors are sometimes prescribing ADD meds to migraine patients. At least here. Plus, what works for some, may not work for all. But maybe a combination is worth a try.

However, some may not be able to afford Feingold. But cutting back on MSG's and the dyes and anything else you find to be a trigger, will hopefully help reduce the symptoms being triggered. At least that's my opinion. Which may or may not be...worth much. Have a wonderful day!

Just wanted to add....that yes, food can trigger migraines but also in my research I've found that a drop in serotonin levels will also bring one one. Which is why doctors are sometimes prescribing ADD meds to migraine patients. At least here. Plus, what works for some, may not work for all. But maybe a combination is worth a try.Fortunately, I don't get migraines, but because they are so common, I learn about them from other people. Everyone I talk to has different triggers; I know someone who can trigger a migraine by looking up the wrong way.

cutting back on MSG's and the dyes and anything else you find to be a trigger, will hopefully help reduce the symptoms being triggered. At least that's my opinion. Which may or may not be...worth much. Have a wonderful day!I don't know anyone who wouldn't agree with you on this, Mary. :cool:

I've done some reflecting the past couple days and have thought about my approach, what I think is important, and whether or not I fit here at all.

First, let me apologize for coming into this community full barrel. The little experience I have had in venues like this has been very different. There is more debating here and some missing niceties in my opinion. As well as a lot of knowledge and potential growth that comes with difference of opinion.

If I continue to post, I will tone my posts down as best as I can . For example talk more generally about diet rather than the Feingold program. I will try to shorten my responses, and not go through my whole story with each post. I will also make sure talking about diet is relevant to the topic. I would imagine that diet will often appear to be more relevant to me than to others. Which leaves room for discrepancy. However, feel free to send me an PM if you think this is the case.

I know some would say any diet talk is too much, yet I have gotten emails from others who are interested. It is debatable how much diet talk is too much. My personal experience is that diet is relevant to almost everything. Using the example in this thread about discussing something like exercise I will explain this.

I used to have my son run around the house 3 times before the bus came so that he could get his energy out. I have no doubt that exercise is important especially for a child with ADHD, but it just didn't work here. What worked was removing the strawberry milk which had red dye and artificial flavor in it. Without the red dye he was no longer hyper and unfocused in the morning.

The other suggestion was talking about things like what I do when my child pitches a fit in the grocery store.

I used to give my son a happy meal and put him in the shopping cart. He would then sit rather than pitch a fit. This gave me enough time to get about 20 minutes of grocery shopping done. While this is a technique that is useful. I would rather mention that the foods I was giving him in the store were what caused him to pitch a fit in first place. After changing his diet I was not only able to avoid the fit, but also able to enjoy his company and ask him to get me items at the other end of the isle.

What I would like you to understand is that many of my diet posts come down to this analogy. If a boat is sinking should I tell the person how I used to try to bail the water out using a cup, or do I tell them how I plugged the hole in the bottom.

I understand that too much of my diet talk can become a problem, but I also think it is sometimes relevant. In my opinion some new members may have never thought of diet intervention as an option let alone heard a personal experience about using it. One helpful part of being here is being exposed to new ideas. Again, I realize I need to tone my approach down.

As was recommended, I will look for opportunities to contribute things that are not diet related. However, diet fixed a lot of things for me and I think if it is relevant to the post I would rather describe how we were able to fix the problem than how we put a Band-Aid on it, or both.

I need to figure out a proper balance or move on.

Tilly, don't take it to heart so much. You are just sharing what's worked for you as has everyone else. Yes, sometimes toes get stepped on, but the good thing about this forum is, we've learned to move on. At least, for the most part. Noone is trying to chase you away. We keep sharing our heartaches, our successes, each milestone that has blocked our path. Yes, Feingold is a great resource. Otherwise, so many millions of parents would not be using it. I've been suggesting it for years, myself, as my cousin's son is high functioning Aspergers.

Sometimes though as I think others were trying to point out. Diet alone can't always do the trick. I believe you understand that already. I also believe that you are a great mom who's bent over backwards to help your child. I'm glad.

I hope you can work things out with those you feel have shown the agression. Keep sharing and good luck!

Well, it is disheartening to come here on this thread only to read opinions/debates/derailings/examining the validity, etc., about the diet rather than focusing on those that have experience with it and sharing with the intent of gathering support and/or providing individuals with awarenes and information of some non-pharmacologic options that can be pursued should they be needed or desired.

I am sorry, Tilly, that you were made to feel the way you do. I hope you continue to share with us, and there are actually many who read and never post both on the forum and on the web that are looking for exactly the kinds of information you are sharing. I encourage you to continue to share how things go for you and your son. You are doing a great job, many do not go that far in trying to find answers and solutions.

So I've been sitting back during all of this, doing not much more then reading and the occasional mod thing. The conclusion that I have come to is very similar to most other things in life. Statistics aside, if it works for you that's all that matters.

Like people are always telling new members (in regards to medication) what works great for one person, might be a nightmare for another. I think when it comes to anything ADHD related be it medication, diets, DORE, acupuncture, etc you will always have some people it will work for, some it won't, and people on both sides talking about their experiences with said treatment.

I am actually somewhat interested in Feingold, but having limited resources (we're 5, and a single income) I don't have the money to spend on something that I'm slightly more then curious about. Is it possible to post (or PM if you prefer) more details about Feingold?

WOW! This has become a really great post!

I have made a personal decision to not debate studies. I think that it would drive me crazy. I would rather speak on personal experience. However, don't send a blue block back in a future post if I do bring up a study. I am open to growing too. I will also post studies I find just to share them.

I think the debate over studies might last longer than religious wars. (lol)
But I'm glad you all like to do it. Checks and balances right.

Many of us have common views here:
There is no perfect treatment. We probably wouldn't need this board if there was a perfect treatment.

Eating healthier can be a benefit for anyone we all agree on that.

The only way to guarantee that there are no artificials in foods is to make food from scratch or buy organic. Some may not care to be this careful, however from my experience hidden and small amounts of ingredients can cause my son to trash his room, cry, run around, jump off furniture ect. For example one day I gave him a box of cookies that looked clean. Afterwards he went to his room and tore it apart, dumping everything, throwing things, yelling and crying. There was no event that started this frenzy, it was the cookies. I don't ever want to risk giving him a food that is not clean.

I know some here poo poos the salycilate thing. It's understandable because fruit are healthy and important. Yes an asprin allergy would be a good indication that salycilates are no good for you.

There is a misconception here. Feingold does not eliminate salycilates. They do a trial removal of them and reintroduce them one by one so that you can watch for a reaction.

My son cannot have oranges, and I mostly give him yellow apples which have lower salycilates. Other than that he eats any fruit he wants. I noticed this before I joined Feingold BTW, but I didn't know the reasoning behind it.

I did remove gluten, but this is not part of stage 1 and stage 2 of the diet.

You may choose to remove other common triggers as an elimination test if you are not happy with the stage 1 or 2 results. I removed gluten, because my son was doing well at home, but not as well at school. The only thing I could think of that was diffrent in terms of food at school was sandwiches. When I removed gluten I got my first good reports from his teacher and they came every week. He also improved more at home, which I was surprized about. We keep doing trial and error on the gluten and from what I can see he has a definate problem with it. But I'll try again.... for like the 5th time just to make sure.

Other than artificials nothing is removed from your diet unless you have found it to be a problem.

I hope I mentioned everything. I'll read the other posts again later.

Does anyone want to start a thread with a goal of helping others who want to eat healthy learn how to do it? Nothing to do with Feingold, but just some simple tips, how to read a label, what does the labeling "all natural" mean. Perhaps it's allready here?

Thanks for your posts,
Have a great day! Tilly

So, does it remove all artificial stuff, or just certain ones?

It removes all artificial colors, flavors and perservatives.

You also swap out household products and personal care products. For example buy free and clear detergent. Petroleum is the common culprit in alot of scents and art. colors. So [people] who are sensitive can have a reaction when there skin absorbs chemicals in say their detergent, or smells like air freshners in the home.

So it lists store brand as well as name brands? That would be nice, since I buy a lot of generics. :)

I think too often people (I've been guilty of this) are a little defensive about taking medication and opinions get too polarized between this or that. Kind of like if diet helps than I'm wrong for taking medication or on the other side "medication is evil and harmful". I've done it both ways and found that for me anyway, diet, exercise and medication (at least some of the time) helps the most. When frequently it is this and that. Diet can help. Medication can help. Sometimes independently and sometime in conjunction with each other. Not everyone has the same brand or degree of ADD. In a teleclass I took from Dr. Ratey he said that someone with mild ADD might be able to get by with exericse several times a day and no medication, but that there were other folks that needed experience and medication. I'm sure the same would hold true with diet.

Delivered from Distraction by Hallowell and Ratey does a good job of balancing their discussion of medication and non medication options.

Scattered, I've actually been on both sides of the treatment "fence." Strong opinions arise from family, friends, teachers, etc., no matter what you do.

"You seriously would medicate your child?????"

"You seriouosly would NOT medicate your child????"

We've gotten it from both "sides."

I appreciate the guts people like Tilly have to share their experiences, as some individuals cannot/do not tolerate meds (besides just a choice to not) and it is really valuable to have a documented journey such as hers for those who want or need nonpharmacologic options and other ideas to explore.

I do know also, I have seen some validity in the Feingold restrictions, tho for us the diet would be unrealistic as my son's dad could never learn to read a label or follow such restrictions, tho I could go into overdrive with it. Anyway, I had noticed loooong ago, as Taco Bell was one of the only fast food places we could frequent with his wheat/dairy allergie, that one of their sauces put him into a hyperdrive. We had to avoid that one, and I immediately thought of Feingold at that time, like 10 years ago.

Well said Frazzle Dazzle! :cool: I totally agree. Everyone's experience adds a little more to the sum total of our understanding of all this. I don't know that we're disciplined or convinced enough to follow all of Feingold's stuff, but a good bit of what he taught has helped our family.

Thanks for sharing your experience Tilly!:) You made me think -- my youngest daughter has been having a reaction to something -- it's been making her itchy and giving her a mild facial rash. Orange juice has been one of the things she's had at some of those times -- anything with Vitamin C added used to give her such bad diaper rash immediately that she'd bleed, so I just assumed the Vitamin C not the orange juice was the problem. Another thing has been Advil -- I don't know if it's the red coating (I thought red iron oxide would be okay) or the medication itself. I just looked on the bottle and noticed it said if you're allergic to aspirin to avoid it and listed the symptoms I just mentioned as allergy reactions. The only time she's had aspirin has been when I gave her part of an Excedrine pill once -- I didn't notice any problem, but wasn't really paying attention either. Hmmmm -- might need to investigate further.

Tilly, do you have any issues with the school, or when he eats outside of the family environment? Is he able to know yet how to make choices when he is offered things and you are not there and have an awareness of how his own food choices affect him? (if not, he probably will someday very soon!) Do his outside caregivers understand the scope of what you are doing and support you? I had the toughest time with my son and his allergies with family and the school. The only entity that totally understood was his daycare because the director had a child herself with serious food allergies. I have found that most people in my son's hands did not undertand and support and know how to comply, or their attitude was "oh, a little won't hurt him."

What have been your experiences there and your thoughts and how did/do you handle that social apect?

First, let me apologize for coming into this community full barrel. The little experience I have had in venues like this has been very different..



Debating well it is one way to exchange information – as I said earlier if done right this can be a learning experience for both of us – I never said any thing about brain dead – not even sure where that came in but there are some exchanges back there I with double quotes and frankly I haven’t a clue what they say – I trust Lady Lark does - so I didn’t worry about those I couldn’t read


There is more debating here and some missing niceties in my opinion. As well as a lot of knowledge and potential growth that comes with difference of opinion

Niceties not over sure about that one either – I do know one mans eithaism can be another mans over whelm. When Gary first expanded his recycling abilities and discovered how to make a decent living saving the planet he was very enthusiastic he wanted to tell the world the wonders of trash – how ever he was perceived by some as being overwhelming and a few even considered him pushy

Much of the difference is perspective based – perhaps our world is as forgien to you as your diet experience is to me

Please realize what the world looks like from our perspective – we have all sort of folks looking to make money off our {or our children’s} diagnosis – we have the focus factor folks, the “attention” people , brain gym, mind mending, the wiggle your toes and what ever else people think that can claim as a cure for ADD and make a quick buck . I am not even getting into the trolls scientologist plus the routine run of the mills spam every ones gets


During the few years I have been here we have had several folks join for the sole purpose to try and sale us some thing – I even had one person spam me via PM {naturally what ever posses some one to PM staff spam is more than likely illegal or should be}

So how does one sort out the sugar form the well not so sugary and still have room for life –Being ADD I do it the ADD way – the direct approach 75% of the folks who have an “agenda” are full of flatus it falls empty in mild debate - the 25% that are legit can whip out a decent rebuttal and line of reasoning. People who actually believe what they say they do can handle a challenge even if they dislike it . . .




I know some would say any diet talk is too much, yet I have gotten emails from others who are interested. It is debatable how much diet talk is too much. My personal experience is that diet is relevant to almost everything. Using the example in this thread about discussing something like exercise I will explain this.

I think balance is relevant – I am not ashamed of my approach why should you be? Your way is as important to you as mine is to me – I see no difference there – already tried to communicate this to ya with my ADD treatment example -



As was recommended, I will look for opportunities to contribute things that are not diet related. However, diet fixed a lot of things for me and I think if it is relevant to the post I would rather describe how we were able to fix the problem than how we put a Band-Aid on it, or both.


I need clarification as to the meaning of this quote above – what do you men put a bandied on it? This reads to me like you are fixing your child’s hyperactivity while those who choose to use medication simply put a bandied on it – is this accurate or am I misreading? Some times I do not see a statement in the way it was intended - I figure it doesn't hurt to ask.


Should this request for clarification be PMed or can I ask straight out? – See these things are confusing to me. I ask here because it is relevant here – once I click off this discussion it is over – me and my brain both move on – remembering to send a PM may or may not happen and then remembering what the response has to do with which discussion -


Well, it is disheartening to come here on this thread only to read opinions/debates/derailings/examining the validity, etc., about the diet rather than focusing on those that have experience with it and sharing with the intent of gathering support and/or providing individuals with awarenes and information of some non-pharmacologic options that can be pursued should they be needed or desired.



One more time - perception, interpretation and chosen communications = you and I have been through this gate before - my reasoning has not changed over this past year= memory???

Tilly, do you have any issues with the school, or when he eats outside of the family environment? Is he able to know yet how to make choices when he is offered things and you are not there and have an awareness of how his own food choices affect him? (if not, he probably will someday very soon!) Do his outside caregivers understand the scope of what you are doing and support you? I had the toughest time with my son and his allergies with family and the school. The only entity that totally understood was his daycare because the director had a child herself with serious food allergies. I have found that most people in my son's hands did not undertand and support and know how to comply, or their attitude was "oh, a little won't hurt him."

What have been your experiences there and your thoughts and how did/do you handle that social apect?This is a tough situation. My daughter gets really ill if she eats things she is allergic to. Having to clean up projectile vomiting got the message home to a few people.

I have made a personal decision to not debate studies.

I have read most of them any way - some one named Jane Hersey is on several forums and blogs I read a good deal of her responses to critics - she would do a very decent debate I think If you had chosen differently I am sure any thing you presented would have been along the same lines as Ms Hersey . She does some kind of information stuff for that fiergold.org group and she wrote a book "why can't my child behave" -


see I told ya I wasn't just mindless bashing a non pharmaceutical approach - nor was it ever my intention to start senseless argument. So not knowing people does effect how you precieve their presentations {okay it does for most}



Sometimes independently and sometime in conjunction with each other. Not everyone has the same brand or degree of ADD. In a teleclass I took from Dr. Ratey he said that someone with mild ADD might be able to get by with exericse several times a day and no medication, but that there were other folks that needed experience and medication. I'm sure the same would hold true with diet.


Some folks simply do not believe in medications - there are various reasons for this - my husband doesn't take medications because of his addiction recovery - he doesn't believe in mood or mind altering chemicals period - my daughter believes medication should not be taken in the long term - according to her the body wasn't made for man made chemicals which she sees as more harmful than the ADD which is natural, Some folks can't take medications or can't on a regular basis due to side effects - a personal choice not to take medications for ADD is just that a personal choice - I always want to know why because I am nosy but I have a lot of people in my life that do not believe in taking medications for their ADD no biggie there.


I truly am interested I have a daughter who is very anti-medication and a three years old grandson very ADD with possible dyslexia – It doesn’t really matter what I think – my daughter doesn’t believe in medications period . . so I have looked at other approaches already

No way she could ever afford Dore {$2000.00 to $4000.00} – not that there is any thing like that in bfe Texas any way – but I even engaged them how do you think I know how much it cost . I have aggressively conversed with the brain gym people on another forum – that method is too expensive for her also $1400.00-$2400.00 depends on what ya get . . . . a diet thing she may could afford she tried by eliminating some things like caffeine and refined sugars – but he is still hyperactive – nice kid but hyper. . .

Want to tell the world about the fiergold diet – so now is your chance – naturally I am going to challenge you how else am I to know weather or not you believe what you say you do- - this is how I sort the legit from the con please do not take me personally- I think I said these words in previous post – I have much the same challenges about choosing medications - so we are all in the same boat but it isn't necessarily a bad thing - if I can't handle a challenge then I wouldn't have much belief in my belief - I get to know a lot about people and their true attitudes by their responses to these less than smooth exchanges - I am a global learner - it is truly amazing what a brief heated exchange reveals about those involved . . .


you let me see some who you are as a person I reciprocate - see not all is as it appears never has - There is as much is in the perceptions as there is in the presentation.





Vitamin C added used to give her such bad diaper rash immediately that she'd bleed, so I just assumed the Vitamin C not the orange juice was the problem.

The orange juice has citric acid - citric acid is used as a perseretive it is extremely common - as some one who is very sensitive to it how well I know - which is why we do not consume many processed foods most have citric acid - Gary is hyperactive too although he is not sensitive like I am I notice he dislikes many of the same things I do - I know a couple of other members who are hyper and have the same problem with citric acid - I notice many of them also share the same seasonal air born allergies also This is why I Posted that hyperlink to the article that explains about how allergies work. How allergies to plant pollens can mean a cross sensitivity to some foods - I even made a notation about rag weed and my dislike for melons. . .



I thought red iron oxide would be okay

OPTIMIZING YOUR DIET Best Foods for Specific Minerals (http://web.mit.edu/athletics/sportsmedicine/wcrminerals.html)

Large doses of nonheme iron can cause constipation, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, and gastrointestinal irritation. Nonheme iron supplements: ferrous fumarate, ferrous sulfate and ferric iron. Ferric iron will destroy vitamin E. Different types of iron supplements contain varying percentage levels of elemental iron. Though heme iron is best for absorption the best nonheme form is ferrous sulfate. Individuals who are more deficient in iron will absorb more than those who are not deficient. Individuals who are not at risk for iron deficiency should not take iron supplements. Typically those not at risk are adult men and postmenopausal women.

{End Quote}

I hope this helps :)

Hey Meadd,

Check out Ratey's book Spark. Since you have family members who don't do medication that might be especially helpful. It's also very well written. Oops, I reread what I quoted Ratey as saying -- I meant to say exercise and medication (not experience).

I think life stage may effect things as well, plus what kind of responsibilities you're dealing with. In college, I was a real health nut in both diet and exercise, plus I went to a parochial college with very strict rules about no TV, no drinking, smoking, etc, you had to be in the dorm by 11:00, no music loud enough to be heard outside your room, etc. In otherwords, just the kind of structured, low distraction environment I needed (not to mention that it was built on a hill and I was always running up and down stairs -- great exercise between classes). I did fine without meds (it is true I developed an advanced level of talant for breaking into my car to get the keys I locked in there (; and wrote almost every college paper in the wee hours of the morning the day it was due --I was younger and could get away with that then-- but overall I was fine!). Today with juggling my kid's schedule, keeping up a house after 4 ADDers, and a part time business -- well -- meds sure help. Few things are one size fits all and I value the discussion and the research shared here. Thanks for being a big part of that discussion!

FrazzleDazzle,

Soon after my youngest turned 4 she started telling people she was allergic to dyes, if I wasn't around. It amazed me (and other people). She was actually better at spotting foods that had dyes than I was. I think she didn't like the way it made her feel and just kind of took control of the situation. I guess we're lucky in a way that she gets a facial rash as well as behavioral symptoms -- people are more likely to believe that.

I guess we're lucky in a way that she gets a facial rash as well as behavioral symptoms -- people are more likely to believe that.True, but it sure gets frustrating having to keep your child home from school until a doctor can verify that the latest new rash that doesn't look like any other rash she's had before isn't contagious. The one with the herald patch shaped like a Christmas tree was so interesting our doctor got another doctor from another office in the clinic to come and see it. Baby pictures tell the tale.

Somewhere on these forums we've discussed Dr. Doris Rapp and every time I do or see the 'allergic salute', I think of her book.

True, but it sure gets frustrating having to keep your child home from school until a doctor can verify that the latest new rash that doesn't look like any other rash she's had before isn't contagious. The one with the herald patch shaped like a Christmas tree was so interesting our doctor got another doctor from another office in the clinic to come and see it. Baby pictures tell the tale.

Somewhere on these forums we've discussed Dr. Doris Rapp and every time I do or see the 'allergic salute', I think of her book.


http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48895&highlight=Doris+Rapp


http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309&highlight=Doris+Rapp

You all have some really great questions, and I am happy to share what I have learned from my own experience and from knowing other Feingold members.

Scattered, I agree about the advil, it could be the coating or the salicylates. If you need help finding something that is safer send me an IM.

Scattered, your noticing a potential reaction to a salicylate is good detective work! One of the reasons we need to get the word out about common triggers is so that a parent reading this might put 2 and 2 together.

To answer Lady Larks question:
The Feingold food book does list some store brands as well as name brands. I would call Feingold and ask them specifically what you brand you are looking for so that you can determine if you would be satisfied with the generic products listed for your area. While most [people] figure out how to meet there needs I wouldn’t want you to be disappointed if you have something specific in mind.

However [people] can submit items that they would like to have researched, and they are very good about doing this with some guidelines. However, the company needs to be corporative. There are companies who flat out will not give the necessary information to have their products approved. Thankfully, many other companies will.

To answer Frazzle
My son snuck money to buy school lunch last year. He definitely needed to adjust to being on the program, but he adjusted quickly.


I am so proud of him!
Last night we went to an event and someone unexpectedly brought desserts. Normally I keep some small cookie packs in my car, but I didn’t have them in hand. I was being lazy. BTW the unexpected cookies were plain white homemade cookies, so it could have been worse. I told my son that he could choose to have two of those cookies or I would run out to my car and get his acceptable treat. This wasn’t the smartest thing for me to do, but my son was smarter than me and chose the acceptable treat.

I used a lot of techniques [I learned] to get him to be this way.
I can choose to implement the program in anyway I see fit. If I want to feed him oranges regardless of his obvious reactions than that’s my choice.

I believe my son recognizes how foods effect him, but we have become so efficient in implementing the program there are not too many reactions happening.

To answer Frazzles question about outside care givers and school. My son’s teacher is so awesome I haven’t even had to deal with compliance at school. She herself joined Feingold to help her son. In fact she had fruit salad at a party and wouldn’t let him eat the grapes. My son and I laughed about it. I don’t remove grapes from his diet, and even if I did, a little wouldn’t have hurt (given our personal salicylate sensitvity). There are many treats given at schools so I give his teacher a supply of acceptable candies and cookies for when they are needed. The Feingold program is also written into his IEP.

Many family members did not enjoy my son prior to Feingold. They are supportive because they see the results.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I have some questions for dog walker.

They are somewhat personal, so if you choose not to answer them I totally understand. I am curious about what your mom may or may not have done to make you feel the way you did. But before I ask them I will repeat myself and say the bottom line is if you needed meds you should have gotten them. If the diet was making you unhappy things should have changed. BTW Feingold does not have a stance that you can not have medication and do the program.

Did your mom use ways to make the program more appealing to you?
For example the lollipops I give my kids are way better than the artificial ones.
When I give a replacement I make sure it’s a darn good one. When my kids trick or treat I buy back the candy so they can buy a toy instead.

Finding healthy foods has become much easier in recent years. From my experience kids are happy if they get to eat their junk. The first thing I did was buy a bunch of junk food to get my kids to come on board with the program. If anything, they have started to eat more junk since I joined Feingold, but that’s my fault.

Dog Walker, your mom could have been less restrictive and just done her best with the program. For example my son had an unapproved ice cream cone a few weeks ago. His voice got high pitched and loud. BTW it was vanilla, which is a little better than the strawberry which would have had red dye in it. I have been on the program a year now, and although I don’t do it often I know a few things I can get away with.

Dog Walker, did your mom do anything to try to get you to like the program in terms of encouragement and love? Family environments can be challenging. I give my son a lot of love and support. I also teach him ways to explain his dietary restrictions.

For example I tell my son he has an allergy. With all the allergies problems these days it is easy for other kids to accept this.

Dog Walker, your story is embedded in my brain. It doesn’t relate to my situation now, but it’s tucked in there for future reference. I hope I have not written anything that offends you in any way. Please tell me if I did.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meadd, you have given me an excellent example to show how the Feingold program works.

Meadd:
“ADD - isn't all about hyperactivity ADD is about the ability to consciously control you direction of focus and length of attention span- ADD isn't about hyperactivity ADD is about selective attention and stimuli filtering. Inattentive filtering valve snaps shut - hyperactive stimuli valve stuck wide open - combined valve takes turns snapping shut and getting stuck wide open.”

”is Feirgold diet theory don't match up to my personal experience at all I think food allergies can effect behavior {please see my post about citric acid} but I also believe there would be other symptoms besides hyperactivity.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meadd:
ADD - isn't all about hyperactivity ADD is about the ability to consciously control you direction of focus and length of attention span- ADD isn't about hyperactivity ADD is about selective attention and stimuli filtering. Inattentive filtering valve snaps shut - hyperactive stimuli valve stuck wide open - combined valve takes turns snapping shut and getting stuck wide open.

I think we all know ADD isn’t all about hyperactivity. Too bad it isn’t, then we would have only one symptom to deal with!

This Feingold diet theory don't match up to my personal experience at all I think food allergies can effect behavior {please see my post about citric acid} but I also believe there would be other symptoms besides hyperactivity.

There are more symptoms. The list includes behavior and health problems that can go away with the program.


Meadd:
I just went to that Feirgold.org site first rattle out of the sack is them wanting $69.00.

Having paid the $69 and successfully treated my adhd child with this program I think it’s a bargain! Learning healthier ways to feed my family was worth the $69 alone.
My son doesn’t need medication now. Given the price of co pays and medication I imagine I am actually saving money.

Meadd:
This is why people assumed Tilly was anti-medication because the group she claims to be a part of appears to be.

To my knowledge no one here has ever called me anti med. I have never written anything that would be anti med, because I value what medications do for people who need them. I think what you are referring to is my post in which I wanted to say up front that people might assume I am anti med. Like scattered said, it is possible that people might assume I’m anti med because my posts refer mainly to diet. I appreciate that Scattered has been open and admitted to doing a little of this herself.

Also where are you getting your impression that the Feingold organization is anti med?
Quote from Feingold.org

“Success with this program may make stimulant medication unnecessary.”

They are not saying don’t take meds, they are saying you might not need them. Which I have found personally to be true.


I am not going to comment on the studies. Or Feingold’s statements about the 80% except to say that having done the program and read other members success stories so this number does not surprise me. Also, I have mentioned before the five friends and family that I know to have had successes with the program.

Meadd’s post which I believe is from The early Lockey diet, which the Feingold program was based upon.
Your post from Do not eat:to Check all labels is not the Feingold Diet as it is today. I believe it is from the Mayo diet. The Lockey diet is 30 years old. The Feingold program has been improving for 30 years.

Most doctors don’t recommend dietary interventions. Neither my pediatrician or my sons neurologist ever recommended food as a treatment, or supplements for that matter. I suspect this is the rule rather than the exception. Many patients rely solely on the advice that is given to them by a doctor. If they don’t know about using diet as an intervention how will they know to bang down the door and do it?

Very well done Tilly -

Having paid the $69 and successfully treated my adhd child with this program I think it’s a bargain! Learning healthier ways to feed my family was worth the $69 alone.
My son doesn’t need medication now. Given the price of co pays and medication I imagine I am actually saving money.


Good response - and a good point.

I am guessing they have a list on that feirgold site of why this money is necessary - I get support here for free unless I choose to donate - but membership is not contingent on people having $$$$ - and this site doesn't run for free. {wow how do they do that}


or does this $69.00 pay for that food research thing you mentioned - my point is why pay to belong to a support group - can't one get much the same results by finding the information on line like I did here with the first source (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=560925&postcount=20) Yes the list is 30 years old but I doubt the foods that contain salicylates, have changed much - I mean if oranges had salicylates in them 30 years ago chances are they still do.


The studies I have seen and there have been many - and although the ones spoken about by Jane do show the elimination diet to improve behavior in children and that would be pennant for this section and my grandson however I do note wean all the studies are taken together - both the ones Jane Hersey used in her post and the ones I looked up to use in opposition if this discussion went that direction are brought together - the indications do not change - {although the amount of positive effects may to a degree }-This elimination diet the fiergold program appears to work with children - young children - older children say in secondary schools, teens and adults do not have the same positive effects according to studies - however I am under the impresson you are also benefiting from the feirgold diet

Member note:

Please do note I am answering a question


Also where are you getting your impression that the Feingold organization is anti med?


Elementary my dear Watson {I normally post directly from quotes to decrease confusion mainly my own} but here is another quote from same page directly from fiergold.org FAQ page

{Begin Quote}
Does the Feingold Association oppose the use of medicine for ADD /ADHD?


No, not at all. We just feel that parents have the right to have complete and accurate information about all the options available. Some of our members combine medication with diet. They are often pleased to find that they are able to use less medication. We don't criticize parents who use medicine. But we do criticize the unethical activities of some of the pharmaceutical companies that are profiting from the sales. [End Quote}

~Underlining mine~


Of coarse they don't criticize parents - they are the ones the program is targeting! The conspiracy theory is alive and well - I mentioned I am a global thinker - so far you are a representative of this group just like I would be if I went over there and spoke of this group . . .reading your post and what I can access for free over there you are following pattern closely- English translation - you believe what you are telling me - but the bandied comment - and the quote above are connected they mean the same things. Your opinion is yours and I have no reason to be bothered one way or the other - I question the feirgold organizations reasonings for this but it isn't a "deal breaker" for my daughter should she be interested - if they are she will fit right in

Two of my three daughters and my husband are anti-medication - one daughter, husband as well as myself see ADD as a neurodiversity not a condition . . . in my family ADD is the norm - 60% are against medications - so yea I have a hard time believing this discussion is even remotely argumentative - I am challenging a presentation but this isn't any where near heated never mind a hard debate - At family get together imagine a dozen ADDers one NTer and zero moderators . . . talking about ADD treatment issues!

Meadd,
I wouldn't want to be at that family gathering. My sister uses the FG program, but does not do it to a T. She likes to eat at friendlys and mcdonalds, her kids eat stuff outside of the house etc. She notices the reaction, but she doesn't try to change it. That's her choice. She uses medication as treatment as well. Unfortunately they have not found the right med, which breaks my heart because I just want to see my nephew happy and healthy. I want her to find what works for her just the same as I would for anyone here. I told her to come here and see what everyone else is doing, but she hasn't.

It's not the listing of salicylates that I disagree with, though truthfully I did not spend much time on it. It is the words DO NOT EAT that I dissagree with.
Who would want to join Feingold if they had to remove a bunch of healthy foods? What people do need to know is that there is a trial elimination period of these foods. Most people find they don't want to eat the ones that are causing problems.

When Feingold points out the drug companies I believe they are talking about things like kick backs to doctors, Marketing techniques, and also don't drug companies fund some of the studies in the first place? Perhaps I'll pop them an email and ask them to explain because I am only guessing.

As for the studies, I don't discredit any of your information. I don't know enough about the ins and outs of studies to know which are valid and which aren't.

I think the FG program has helped me somewhat, but I don't entirely follow it for myself. I do feel more clear headed, but I have never looked into salicylates for myself and I cheat when out of the house. I like to drink wine, and I don't think I will ever do an elimination test on it. At the same time there are some foods I will never touch again.

It seems like we have gotten as close to the bottom of all this as possible.
I have really come to appreciate this process and I have learned alot from everyone here.

I'm curious, I noticed you put a link in this or another thread that was from enzymestuff. Have you ever tried enzymes?

I hope I answered all your questions. I have to go because my husband has become annoyed with my sitting at the computor all day and I need to get back to the family. Plus you should see my house, ugh! let go for a couple days and it's not looking so good.

I forgot to answer your question about why they charge the $69. While I don't know all the reasons, I do know that they have to pay for the publishing of the food book, publishing and mailing of the monthly newsletter, pamphlets, flyers, business cards, upkeep of the web page, the few staff that they do have and who knows what else.

Another reason Feingold would need to charge the $69.
The Feingold association does have an office in New York. I would imagine they have some sort of morgage or lease to pay as well.

I'm going to have to steal the name EYEFORGOT (love that name)http://www.addforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

This topic of this thread is for the discussion of the claims of effectiveness of the Feingold diet program. Members are reminded to stay on topic. All other off-topic comments will be edited/removed from the thread by staff. Members are welcome to start additional threads on related topics, provided that they stay within the forum guidelines.

Thanks.

This topic of this thread is for the discussion of the claims of effectiveness of the Feingold diet program.

Thanks this saves me from having to scroll - I believe my initial statement of special diet being effective in eliminating ADD symptoms in 4% of the ADD population created a stir -

I believe some to this may have been due to some just looking at the number 4% and thinking gee that isn't very many - I have read extensively and it seems like the general conciseness is elimination diets to be effective for symptoms seen in young children – which makes perfect sense to me considering how much smaller they are than we are yet the growth process places the chemical exchanges that keep our bodies functioning in a constant state of fluctuation - it is like the difference between some one walking and slipping on a grease spot and some one who is running slipping on one – like the person running who slips is going to experience a greater deal of disequilibrium a child’s body which has a much more rapid metabolism is going to be less able to cope with substances that are more difficult for the body to process

Perhaps these number will make a few folks feel better


Can Diet Ease ADHD Symptoms? (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/859-2.html)
Food sensitivities

Recent studies suggest that sensitivities to certain foods may worsen symptoms of ADD in children.

When kids with ADD are placed on a special elimination diet - excluding foods that trigger unwanted behavior - as many as 30 percent of toddlers and preschoolers benefit, says Eugene Arnold, M.D., author of A Family's Guide to Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, and professor emeritus of psychiatry at Ohio State University. He says that such a diet does not seem to have any effect on adults with ADD.

On an elimination diet, you start by eating only foods unlikely to cause reactions: lamb, chicken, potatoes, rice, bananas, apples, cucumbers, celery, carrots, parsnips, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, salt, pepper, and vitamin supplements. Then you restore other foods, one at a time, to see whether they cause a reaction.

If nothing happens in two weeks - if you see no difference in your child's behavior - stop the experiment. If you notice an improvement, reintroduce one excluded food each day and watch what happens. If the child has a bad response to the food - if he becomes more fidgety or has trouble sleeping, for example - eliminate it again. If it's a food your child is particularly fond of, try reintroducing it again a year or so later. If they're not repeatedly exposed to the trigger food, children often outgrow sensitivities.

If you'd like to try the diet with your children at home, Dr. Arnold recommends consulting a registered dietician (go to eatright.org).

{End Quote}

~Underlining, bold and text color change mine~

Now Dr Eugene Arnold, M.D. is the exact same person I got my figures from - even though they are drastically different they are really saying basically the same thing.

One must remember that children no longer make up 100% of the ADD population - the Feingold publications deals with hyperactivity - the statement "4% of the ADD population" covers all subtypes including those ADDer who are not hyperactive - the ADD population as a whole also includes adults and teens - which thus far have been found to be non-responders to eliminate diets {although I am sure most adults are like I am I have myself on a diet that restricts my intake of foods that make me itch. vomit or feel bad }

For all this discussion about food - all these studies accusations and bantering I wondered where would one get an objective opinion about food - the last place to find an objective opinion about ADD is ADD studies even Feingold himself was addressing allergies so I wanted to look at food from the perspective of people who make a profession dealing with nutrition -


Hyper Holidays and Hyper Kids: A Dietary Solution? Dec 2007 (http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/tddec2007pg12.shtml)

While many parents eagerly embraced the diet, Feingold’s findings were met with skepticism and criticism from many child behavior experts, pediatricians, and the processed food industry. Dietitians noted the restrictions on many common fruits with dismay. Despite the skeptical criticism, in 1975 a U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare committee concluded that “the evidence taken as a whole is sufficient to merit further investigation into the relationship of diet and hyperkinetic syndrome.”


In 1982, the NIH convened a conference to review the early scientific research and advise health professionals and the public regarding diet and ADHD. Their conclusion was that controlled studies “did indicate a limited positive association between … [Feingold-type] diets and a decrease in hyperactivity.” The panel recommended further broad research on the diet-behavior connection.5,9 Despite the recommendation for further research, only a limited number of controlled studies have been conducted in the past 30 years.

{End Quote}

conspiracy theory ba-mum-bug the government and medical professions did find the Feingold diet worthy of further investigation - one more time it isn't the diet I have a problem with - the misinformation - frankly it is distracting to the cause of us all.


{Begin Quote}
A lack of consensus continues regarding the percentage of children who respond to dietary therapy, to what degree they respond, which subgroup of children is most likely to respond, sensitivities to artificial food additives and foods, and how to implement diet therapy.5 There is a wealth of anecdotal evidence citing improvement in ADHD symptoms, including sleep problems and mood changes, secondary to diet therapy. Preschool children and children affected by eczema, asthma, allergies, hives, and hay fever appear to be more responsive to dietary interventions
{End Quote}


~Underlining, bold, text color changes mine~

This is written by dietary professionals for dietary professionals with no interest promoting a specific diet or medication - this is what they are saying to each other -


For those interested in elimination diets for children depending upon the amount and types of food eliminated it may be worth consulting a dilatation some one who has a license and can help you ensure your children are getting all the nutrients their bodies need - they can help with meal planning and education.



Most doctors don’t recommend dietary interventions

See my doctor did – he even mentioned the Feingold diet – he felt the dyes especially the elimination of the red dye to be helpful to all ADDers – he recommended red dye be avoided - that was back in 1993


He believes diet is important - if you do not eat right you will not feel right - he also readily acknowledges ADDer tend to have allergies - that processed food can trigger those allergies - he recommends a diet with more fresh fruits and vegetable and less McDonald's and microwave meals - there is not a doctor in his right mind with will encourage eating nothing but processed foods - a health diet means a healthy brain - it is called preventive medicine.

If they don’t know about using diet as an intervention how will they know to bang down the door and do it?

The Fiengold diet was mentioned as an option in ADD treatment to me beck in 1993 when I was diagnosed – he saw this as mostly beneficial to children - he was supportive of any who choose to try this approach.

The fact that doctors do not recommend dietary restrictions and various changes as a practice is a load of garbage -



the health care profession readily admits many deadly conditions like diabetes and cardiovascular diseases can be avoided by eating a health diet getting plenty of exercise and sleep -


Doctors have recommended a healthy diet for so long it is now clichés !

Claiming they do not is the exact type misinformation I have a problem with - if research finds the feingold diet decrease negative symptoms in ADD children they will be recommending it more and more - doctors base treatment on scientific evidence - - - if one looks at this from the doctors point of view he/she is less apt to get sued for recommending the feingold diet than they are by prescribing Ritilan or any other medication- - - it is really that simple - what isn't simple is patent compliance - few adhere to special diets which decrease their effectiveness not only in studies but in real life.

What isn't being mentioned here is the fiengold diet will work much better for ADDers especially hyperactive ones if it is accompanied by plenty of exercise. Brains need plenty of physical activity to develop properly - this truth becomes evident by the obvious fact that only creatures that move have brains!

Check out Ratey's book Spark

I plan on doing just that - thanks for the mention

However [people] can submit items that they would like to have researched, and they are very good about doing this with some guidelines. However, the company needs to be corporative. There are companies who flat out will not give the necessary information to have their products approved. Thankfully, many other companies will.Thanks for that, Tilly. Where would we send a product sample or product information to get it on the Feingold list? Are their any fees involved?

You need to be a member to submit items for research. So the fee would be the membership fee.
Also, if one is particular about a certain brand name you might want to ask if they are a company who cooperates with product research.

You need to be a member to submit items for research. So the fee would be the membership fee.
Also, if one is particular about a certain brand name you might want to ask if they are a company who cooperates with product research.Thanks, Tilly. O.k., an up until now, small, local manufacturer of a healthy snack food has announced she is going global with her product. First she needs to become a member of Feingold, that's easy, but who does she send her product to? Does the Feingold organization have specific labs they send products to? Are there any in Canada?

I'm not exactly sure what the question is, so I'll answer it two ways.

If it is a person looking to have a product researched so that they know it is clean for their consumption they need to join.

If it is a business selling a product they can contact pic to get their product in the book.

I don't believe labs are involved. I believe it is paper work a company needs to cooperate in filling out. You could ask the organization if you are interested in knowing more. There is a food guide for canada.

Many people report that their small children respond a bit faster to the program. Most people be they young or old respond somewhere between a few days to 6 weeks. My son has a quick metabolism. I started seeing results in two weeks.

Hyper Holidays and Hyper Kids: A Dietary Solution? Dec 2007 (http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/tddec2007pg12.shtml)

This links a keeper. Thanks Meadd. It is from Additude magazine.

I really appreciate seeing this in ADDitude magazine because last year they had an interview with a doctor from a New York hospital that said “parents of children with ADHD should not let a general bias against “unnatural” food ingredients guide their approach to treating ADHD. Dietary interventions are difficult to impose and unlikely to bring any benefit.”
Here is the link http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1880.html (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1880.html)

I wrote him a personal letter saying where diet has gotten us, and told him I was disappointed that his article would deter someone from trying a diet that just might work.

Here is another example of a doctor who says diet does not work.
http://www.additudemag.com/q&a/ask_the_add_medical_expert/1212.html (http://www.additudemag.com/q&a/ask_the_add_medical_expert/1212.html)

Given the above links I think it’s debatable whether or not most doctors talk about dietary intervention in treating ADHD/ADD. I think your doctor recommending Feingold is an exception rather than a rule. It would be an interesting poll to find out how many doctors recommended it to their patients. Just bringing up diet isn’t enough.

For example my family eats almost all healthy meals we usually eat one processed snack per day, an occasional processed meal, and we go out to eat or get take out once a week. My doctor said I was doing a good job because I mentioned so many healthy foods. When in fact it was the few processed foods we eating that were causing the problem. So she did nothing to steer me in the right direction. It’s not just a matter of bringing up diet, but also doing it in a particular way. Given the time allotted for doctors appointments I wonder how much of this they could realistically go over.

Few adhere to special diets which decrease their effectiveness not only in studies but in real life.
I think this is a valid point. Diet is not the answer for all. It does take time to adjust to changing the way you shop for groceries and eat out. I found it easy to adjust, but that’s me.
FYI, for the most part you do not need to read labels, you buy from the approved shopping guide in which product ingredients have been researched and the work has been done for you.
Another thing that can be difficult is that many of the processed foods an individual eats will not be approved. Many of the products an individual eats have artificial ingredients in them. So if you would rather eat your current foods than switch brands this isn’t the program for you.
Kids can be picky, and you will need to learn techniques in gaining their cooperation with the program. However, many of the families I know from Feingold have no problem getting their kids to cooperate because the kids themselves do not want to have behavior, learning or health problems either.

Others might choose to make healthier choices and use diet as part of another treatment. They can do that on their own by eating homemade food and buying organic or they can choose to read labels, but you are risking all the hidden artificial ingredients that are in food if you read labels.


Recent studies suggest that sensitivities to certain foods may worsen symptoms of ADD in children.

When kids with ADD are placed on a special elimination diet - excluding foods that trigger unwanted behavior - as many as 30 percent of toddlers and preschoolers benefit, says Eugene Arnold, M.D., author of A Family's Guide to Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, and professor emeritus of psychiatry at Ohio State University. He says that such a diet does not seem to have any effect on adults with ADD.



I know adults who are helped with dietary changes. The Feingold program is used for all ages. Very often a person, who changes their families way of eating for a target kid, finds other members in the family including parents and teenage siblings are helped as well. This is very common.

On an elimination diet, you start by eating only foods unlikely to cause reactions: lamb, chicken, potatoes, rice, bananas, apples, cucumbers, celery, carrots, parsnips, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, salt, pepper, and vitamin supplements. Then you restore other foods, one at a time, to see whether they cause a reaction.


If nothing happens in two weeks - if you see no difference in your child's behavior - stop the experiment. If you notice an improvement, reintroduce one excluded food each day and watch what happens. If the child has a bad response to the food - if he becomes more fidgety or has trouble sleeping, for example - eliminate it again. If it's a food your child is particularly fond of, try reintroducing it again a year or so later. If they're not repeatedly exposed to the trigger food, children often outgrow sensitivities.

I just want to point out here in the event that someone misses this. This is a different type of diet. This diet starts you off with eating apples, and cucumbers which are salicylates that are removed as a test in the Feingold program. My son has trouble with apples, so this wouldn’t have worked for me.

Also, the Feingold program takes up to 6 weeks to see results in stage one. Many individuals need time for the toxins to come out of their body. Other folks believe there is a withdrawal effect when the body is actually craving what is bad for them. Some members see results quickly others find they need a little time to get results.

If you'd like to try the diet with your children at home, Dr. Arnold recommends consulting a registered dietician (go to eatright.org).
Good idea, but if you are interested in treating ADHD with diet I would make sure the nutritionist believes in diet as treatment for adhd/add.

While many parents eagerly embraced the diet, Feingold’s findings were met with skepticism and criticism from many child behavior experts, pediatricians, and the processed food industry. Dietitians noted the restrictions on many common fruits with dismay. Despite the skeptical criticism, in 1975 a U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare committee concluded that “the evidence taken as a whole is sufficient to merit further investigation into the relationship of diet and hyperkinetic syndrome.”

Just to make clear to people who don’t know, the Feingold program today only removes fruits as an elimination test. While oranges are healthy for most, I think it is unhealthy to give my son something that causes him to be angry and hyper. My son is able to eat all other fruits except I monitor how many and what type of apple he can eat. I think any dietician would be happy with our diet.

One must remember that children no longer make up 100% of the ADD population - the Feingold publications deals with hyperactivity - the statement "4% of the ADD population" covers all subtypes including those ADDer who are not hyperactive - the ADD population as a whole also includes adults and teens - which thus far have been found to be non-responders to eliminate diets {although I am sure most adults are like I am I have myself on a diet that restricts my intake of foods that make me itch. vomit or feel bad }
Hyperactivity is one symptom the program helps. There are many others if one is interested they can go to the Feingold website and click symptoms helped. Symptoms are broken down into behavioral, learning and health issues. Most people I know who are being treated with diet can relate to many of these symptoms.

In 1982, the NIH convened a conference to review the early scientific research and advise health professionals and the public regarding diet and ADHD. Their conclusion was that controlled studies “did indicate a limited positive association between … [Feingold-type] diets and a decrease in hyperactivity.” The panel recommended further broad research on the diet-behavior connection.5,9 conspiracy theory ba-mum-bug the government and medical professions did find the Feingold diet worthy of further investigation - one more time it isn't the diet I have a problem with - the misinformation - frankly it is distracting to the cause of us all.



I asked the Feingold association for some information about studies. This is what they said

“Studies are very useful, but even the most carefully designed ones are limited. Most of the studies tested out only one portion of the Feingold diet, the dyes, and didn't address the other additives (including the thousands of chemicals that can be used as artificial flavorings). Most of the studies didn't use the supermarket foods that children actually eat, but tested one or several dyes. Most of the studies used a tiny amount of dye. For example, 27 milligrams (used in some of the studies) is approximately the amount it takes to color about one half of a teaspoon of colored frosting.”

The Feingold Association has recently published the newest edition of its "bluebook" - titled Behavior, Learning and Health, The Dietary Connection. It devotes a great deal of space to reviews of the studies -- there are 191 citations.


You can request a free copy of the book by e-mailing Help at feingold.org The entire 43 page book is also available to read online.

Few adhere to special diets which decrease their effectiveness not only in studies but in real life.
I think this is a valid point. Diet is not the answer for all. It does take time and energy to adjust to changing the way you shop for groceries and eat out. You also need to get your child on board with the program. We found it easy to adjust, but that’s our family. Other people, like many here, might decide to make simple diet changes on their own, and not go all out like Feingold does.

FYI, for the most part you do not need to read labels, you buy from the approved shopping guide in which product ingredients have been researched and the work has been done for you.

Another thing that can be difficult is that many of the processed foods an individual currently eats will not be approved. Most processed foods have artificial ingredients in them. So if you don’t want to switch cracker brands this isn’t the program for you.
Kids can be picky, and you will need to learn all the Feingold techniques in gaining your child’s cooperation with the program. However, many of the families I know from Feingold have no problem getting their kids to buy in because their kids notice they are feeling better too.

Others might choose just make healthier choices and use diet as part of another treatment. They can do that on their own by eating homemade food and buying organic or they can choose to read labels, but you are risking all the hidden artificial ingredients that are in food if you read labels.