I had a meeting with my daughter's teacher today - she is 6 yo. Apparently she is falling behind in school because she is not completing her assignments. She also has trouble paying attention and gets distracted very easily. I have known that she has trouble paying attention, but had no idea she was falling behind in school. Her teacher says she either either takes too long with assignments or is just not doing them. She sometimes gives me a hard time with homework but always gets it done. She also has trouble sometimes - writing letters or numbers backwards.

I watch her in gymnastics and tennis and she is always 'off somewhere' watching other people and when it comes to be her turn she never knows what to do. She constantly has to be told to pay attention.
`
When I ask her things like what happened in school today, I always get 'I don't know' or she'll give me a hint of something, but never much info. She gives me a hard time about cleaning up or doing anything that will take a long time or effort.

She is a very sweet girl - always behaves and is very sympathetic to other kids. She has never been in trouble at school for misbehaving.

Another thing to note - she is still wetting her bed. I know there is some type of correlation with ADD.

I'm thinking of having her checked for ADD, but I also realize a lot of what I just wrote could be what a 6 yo does. If anyone has any advice or can relate, please let me know. Also, what type of doctor do you see for this? Do you start with the pediatrician?

Thanks so much!

Early Diagnosis:

For children generally, see:
http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1591.html (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1591.html)
http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1877.html (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1877.html)
http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1876.html (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1876.html)
http://www.additudemag.com/adhd-web/article/894.html (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd-web/article/894.html) (ADHD plus co-morbid conditions)

For girls, see:
http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1691.html (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1691.html)
http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1626.html (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1626.html)

For pre-school toddlers, see:
http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/2488.html (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/2488.html) (Aug./Sep. 2007).

For 3 years of age, see:
http://www.additudemag.com/q&a/ask_t...pert/1313.html (http://www.additudemag.com/q&a/ask_the_add_medical_expert/1313.html) (Dx ok; Rxs not generally advised for kids under 5).

Enuresis (bed wetting) is not always correlated with ADD.

Has she had her eyes and ears tested in the last 6 months? Might be a start.

Has she had her vision checked? That may be the issue with the backwards letters. Sometimes bedwetting happens with ADHD kids, but it's not really a symptom in itself. However, ADHD kids to tend to be somewhat behind developmentally though.

I would suggest you get her evaluated. If she's having such a had time at school, that can be a problem.

Hi! I would talk to her teacher ASAP...see if it is the same issues as you are seeing...

Thanks for your responses. I met with her teacher yesterday and we got the paperwork rolling for an assessment. Apparently she thought she might also have ADD - inattentive. Once I get the results back from the nurse, I will make an appointment with her doctor to discuss.

She is a very sweet girl - always behaves and is very sympathetic to other kids. She has never been in trouble at school for misbehaving.

I read that so much and it always makes me smile ..
a friend of mine, a girl who's ADD too, now being assessed and last week she mailed me this about her psych:

"what I really thought was cute .... you can tell the psych really likes adhd. on numerous occasions she made the remark that 'such wonderful people, these adhd-ers' and 'there's no sweeter child than an add child. They are such cuties'. I thought that was so sweet of her. it almost felt like being praised for being add... it really puts you at ease if relative strangers say such things to you."

we got the paperwork rolling for an assessment
That's great :)

Luthien knows this from personal ADD experience as well because they don't get much sweeter (or cleverer) than her! :)

There's great hope for your girl! :)

We got the paperwork back today. They were great in getting it done so quick. It was an assessment by me and my husband and then a teachers assessment. Then the school nurse scored it. Apparently she is moderate to severe in attention/distractability and underactivity. Im going to make an appointment with her pediatrician next week to go over the results and see what we can do to help her.

I was also reading online that the fact that she still bed wets at 6 yo may also be a factor. It said that they wet because they stay in stage 4 sleep too long which is an oxygen deprived state. It said when people are deprived of oxygen for extended periods at night it affects the brain, bloodstream muscles and other organs and the symptoms can be identical to ADD. So we are going to discuss that too and try to fix that problem as well.

Luthien - I love what you shared about your friend. It made me smile to read that.

Addaway - thanks for your encouragement.

I forgot to ask - does the pediatrician treat my daughter for this or do they refer you to someone else? Thanks!

It depends. A good pediatrician will treat if they are comfortable with it, but send you to a specialist if not. When we were dealing with what we thought was just ADHD my son's pediatrician handled the medication. Once we realized there was something more, she suggested a psychiatrist or a developmental pediatrician. She even specifically stated that we were, "getting beyond what I know."

Purplelady,

I don't have kids. I'm an adult with ADD (diagnosed at 41), and I know that I really wish that I'd been diagnosed as a kid so as to not only get the medication, but also because then my parents could have helped me train myself to compensate for things like your lack of any sense of time. A friend of mine has a severely adHd son, and they've had to do a ton of work with him, but it's showing big results finally. He's on medications, but they also have had to adjust a whole bunch of things about their parenting techniques, etc.

Also, as you may know, it's likely genetic, so there's a decent chance that you or her father have it as well, and it can be helpful to "treat" the parent (even if it just means recognizing the symptoms as symptoms and addressing them with behavior modification, etc.) at the same time.

So all this is to say that there might be a benefit to seeing someone in addition to the pediatrician. Just a thought...

Good luck. Your girl will go far. Us eager-to-please inattentive females can really excel in school because the teachers enjoy us. So there are at least a few advantages! ;-)

Sandy - you are exactly right. Im pretty sure that I have ADD as well. I actually went to my doctor to ask him for a referral a few years ago and he kind of made me feel stupid for asking. I think that was around when all the commercials were out about ADD. So I never went. In light of what I have found out about my daughter, I will be going back again for another referral. I was also being treated for anxiety/slight depression a while ago, but stopped treatment when I thought I might have been pregnant and never started back up again. My Dad also has depression and ADD - although he has never been treated for the ADD.

Also regarding being liked by the teacher - Im pretty sure my daughter is the teachers favorite. She always gives her teacher a hug before she leaves. And they have a chart with colors on it and when they start misbehaving she turns the colors from green to yellow to red. Some kids are constantly on yellow or red. My daughter is so proud that she has never gotten off green.

This may sound like a silly question since I already suspect that I have ADD. But what are some of the signs that made you realize you needed to get help?

See Sandy4957's Profile > Statistics > Her Posts.

My depressed and tormented state drove me to the doctor who diagnosed me with ADHD and secondary anxiety/depression (+OCD now). For more detail see:

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=562051#post562051

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=551257#post551257

This may sound like a silly question since I already suspect that I have ADD. But what are some of the signs that made you realize you needed to get help?
there have been signs all the time but they were alsways misinterpreted. I was taken to a psychiatrist when I was 7 because I was so painfully shy, insecure and withdrawn. Because at that time I did not have academic problems - I was tested gifted around that time - the conclusion was that I was 'just a shy kid, absent-minded, just different' - and the recommendation was to put me on Judo or ballet class to boost my self image a bit. I protested so much (the idea totally scared me) that that never happened.
I've tried to find out what was wrong with me a number of times and have had the bad luck that no-one told me about inattentive ADD until last May (or the luck that someone did :) .. who knows how long it might have taken!) - and the doctors or psychologist that I have talked to missed all the signals - even that time a couple of years ago when I had quit smoking and my anxiety and inattention brought me to a complete halt for half a year.
In retrospect it's all clear as glass: social anxiety; falling grades after 8th grade; total failure at university bc of inattention; relationships that failed bc of typical unrecognised ADD symptoms (forgetfulness, inattention, need to be alone, hyperfocus, etc); huge gap between 'what you could do' and 'where you end up'. hmm. There is a better expression for that but it's eluding me for the moment :)

Maybe .. a good indicator that you need help is that you have the idea that you have to fight so hard but are not getting anywhere. That all around you people seem to be accomplishing lots and lots more with much less effort. That you have the idea that life is flowing past you and leaving you behind.

That you don't understand why you don't understand yourself.

(and this one's for me, not everyone has this) - that you feel like a sort of child-grownup hybrid, in some ways mature, in others - not so.

Luthien,

You may be interested in something that my shrink said to me today. He said that people with ADD have an uncanny knack for unmasking hypocrisy. He explained that the reason is that the part of the brain that is responsible for hypocrisy doesn't work very well with ADD, and that ADDers therefore don't know how to do it, how to "play the game," so to speak. This came up because I was telling him something about my relationship with one of my partners at work. He says that he thinks that a part of my problem with this partner is that I failed to kowtow appropriately to him a while back, and that the partner sees me as having insufficient respect for him.

Anyway, I find that all very interesting because I've always read that ADDers have poor social skills, and always thought that that didn't really describe me (with apologies for being self-aggrandizing, here). I've generally done very well in social settings, usually being accepted by all sorts of different groups without being "identified" as being in a clique with any of them. But I realize now that the way that I've done that is without hypocrisy (I don't "play the game"). I don't act as though I like or respect people if I don't. I find something to like or something nice to say about just about anyone, and then I'm happy to share those thoughts. I steer clear of thoughts that I may have that are not as complimentary, and, in fact, I avoid saying those negative things behind anyone's back (because then I may as well say it to them). It was fascinating to learn that that's an ADD trait. But that may be a part of why your friend's daughter's doctor said she likes ADD children so much, eh? Because we're basically incapable of being deceptive? That would also explain the child-like qualities. We don't act like other adults who have learned to play politics.

That's pretty consistent with the way the Jet Blue CEO handled that disaster they had where a bunch of people got left out on a runway forever in NYC. He was incapable of being political about it, so he just went on the air, and on YouTube, and said "I'm sorry. We'll do better."

Sandy

Addaway - Thanks for the links to the info!

Luthien - Thanks for sharing your info as well. When I was in High School I remember asking my mom if I could go talk to someone because I always felt out of place and very shy. I was absolutely a follower. I spent High School in band because my friends were in the band. What I really wanted to do was take art lessons, but never did because it was easier and more comfortable to follow my friends. My mom is a great person, but I guess she didn't take what I said too seriously because she never took me to talk to anyone.

As an adult I know I have some social anxiety and I hate being like that. I want to be outgoing, but I just feel better being at home. I need to be pushed with almost everything.

I also was laid off last May. I didn't really start looking until this past January. I was always making excuses to my husband for why I keep putting it off. So now I sit home alone every day with my husband at work and my daughter at school. Most people would have so many things they would accomplish, but I waste half my day doing nothing and putting everything off. Including looking for a job. I am wondering now if that is part of ADD. I just can't get myself motivated to do much of anything and its starting to get depressing.

Sandy - I think Im the opposite of you in masking feelings. I tend to try to fit in in every social situation because I feel like I need to make everyone like me - part of my 'shyness'. I pretend to like people when I don't and try to be 'agreeable'.

I really appreciate the feedback on my posts. I initially came here for advice on my daughter, but I feel better talking about my own issues as well.

Best of luck on your search & family issues, PurpleLady! :)

Luthien: I think the word you were lookin' for was "underachievement." :confused:

As an adult I know I have some social anxiety and I hate being like that. I want to be outgoing, but I just feel better being at home. I need to be pushed with almost everything.
Same here ..

I also was laid off last May. I didn't really start looking until this past January. I was always making excuses to my husband for why I keep putting it off. So now I sit home alone every day with my husband at work and my daughter at school. Most people would have so many things they would accomplish, but I waste half my day doing nothing and putting everything off. Including looking for a job. I am wondering now if that is part of ADD. I just can't get myself motivated to do much of anything and its starting to get depressing.
you bet it is part of ADD - the inattentive variety.
See here (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1474811&rendertype=table&id=T1) for an overview of inattentive (ADD) vs hyperactive (ADHD) characteristics.

Sandy - I think Im the opposite of you in masking feelings. I tend to try to fit in in every social situation because I feel like I need to make everyone like me - part of my 'shyness'. I pretend to like people when I don't and try to be 'agreeable'.
oh gosh, I recognise that so well. But apart from that - I also genuinely like to be nice / kind to people .. I also love it the other way round :)

Luthien: I think the word you were lookin' for was "underachievement." :confused:
YESSSSSS *smackaroo*

When I ask her things like what happened in school today, I always get 'I don't know' or she'll give me a hint of something, but never much info. She gives me a hard time about cleaning up or doing anything that will take a long time or effort.

She is a very sweet girl - always behaves and is very sympathetic to other kids. She has never been in trouble at school for misbehaving.

Sounds like you have an ADDer on your hands, with the exception of the above. Even my non-ADD kids say the above to me.
Me: "What happened today at school?"
Them: "Dunno.... Stuff."

But, the best way to know is to seek professional help. We did this with my son. We're trying a no-medication route just to see if he can make it that way. If not we'll go down the medication route.

I think it is best to get testing if possible.

A psychologist can rule out stuff like CAPD ('central auditory processing disorder'), with testing, which can look/act like ADD. MDs and school RNs can't do that. (Probably don't even know what it is. LOL.)

Testing helps people understand what is going on with her. It is costly and schools tend to do the 'bare minimum'. It is shocking to hear that a school RN is doing some testing!
(I went to a 4 yr BSN nursing program and did a BA in Psych -- we learned jack about LDs and ADD. LOL.)


Testing also prevents a LOT OF SUFFERING for your child in school too, as the deficits are NAMED.

e.g. Kids get yelled at for "not paying attention" or 'not trying hard enough' when they really have an LD that affects their Auditory Processing/Auditory Working Memory. School may be gentler on your daughter if they can discern that she has a real LD. Some bonehead teachers really do just think such kids are being "lazy". This diminishes when they are confronted with the results of Psycho-Educational Testing Reports from a Testing Psychologist.

Her Executive Function (EF) should also be assessed. (Exec. Dysfunction is often labeled as "laziness".)

Once the cost of testing is divided over the span of her school years (K-12), the cost of it in preventing her from having school suffering (from not getting her deficits figured out) is quite minimal, really -- and will make it worthwhile.

I can tell you from personal experience that it can make a person have terrible depression and anxiety to go thru school 'not knowing what is wrong' (besides a vague query about ADD).... when there was really a problem with an LD or EF.

re: #16 (ADDers unmasking hypocrisy)

What a great point.

Because we are often low 'self-monitors' and [sometimes] verbally impulsive/disinhibited, we tend to be more *authentic*, yup.

'Look! The Emperor has no clothes!'

It can just fly out of our mouths. ;)

Because we're basically incapable of being deceptive?
I agree with this - I am a very poor lier. Everyone can always tell when I do it. We all lie, (whether ADD or not) - it's a natural instinct for preservation. But, I can't even white lie without it being so obvious, never understood how people could do it and get away with it.

Queens - thanks for the helpful information. You listed some things that I never heard of, but worth learning about.

I can tell you from personal experience that it can make a person have terrible depression and anxiety to go thru school 'not knowing what is wrong' (besides a vague query about ADD).... when there was really a problem with an LD or EF.

Yep, this is me - I don't want my daughter to go through that.

I agree with this - I am a very poor lier. Everyone can always tell when I do it. We all lie, (whether ADD or not) - it's a natural instinct for preservation. But, I can't even white lie without it being so obvious, never understood how people could do it and get away with it.

Even though I always try to fit in and may keep my feeling to myself, I am also a very bad liar. I would be horrified to be caught in a lie. And for me it would be easy since I would probably forget what I said. So I just avoid it.

Oops, duplicate.

[quote=QueensU_girl;563030]

e.g. Kids get yelled at for "not paying attention" or 'not trying hard enough' when they really have an LD that affects their Auditory Processing/Auditory Working Memory. School may be gentler on your daughter if they can discern that she has a real LD. Some bonehead teachers really do just think such kids are being "lazy". This diminishes when they are confronted with the results of Psycho-Educational Testing Reports from a Testing Psychologist.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I get so upset when I get Tyler's report card and see all the S-, and U's in Effort. He does try so hard, and his teacher is well aware of his ADHD because we speak often .. but she wont budge! I'm currently getting him evaluated at school for a reading disablity and I soooo can't wait for the meeting so I can talk to everyone about this, and his bad grade for homework (also U) because I spend 2+hrs with him every night doing his homework and he forgets to turn it in and so she marks him down. I told her several times that I dont want to see a bad grade for homework because I guarantee he's doing it every night! But, there is that U again! I'm going to get an accomidation for him.

Purple Lady,

My #1 frustration @ work is dealing with local school districts as a whole; as there are certainly some excellent individual teachers.

One of the handouts I give as part of an evidence based practice is something I put together that I refer to as "Connect the Dots."

What it really is is a synopsis of Part B of the special ed law IDEA ( recently changed to IDEIA (Individuals with Disabilities Education
Improvement Act: just to confuse you I think) & the DSM-IV TR symptoms on the second page.

Part B is where ADHD comes in; as it doesn't automatically qualify.

However, if you read what Part B actually says, it refers to educational impairments..."caused by the health condition."

It doesn't say .."CHOICE."

Unfortunately, I hear that at least several times a week from parents of the kids I see.

The main point I try emphasize is for parents of ADHD kids to learn as much as possible about the Executive Functions, especially as pertains to ADHD.

The symptoms are research based and actually represent executive function impairments (i.e., "executive dysfunction)."

So when you talk about the symptoms, you're describing executive dysfunction.

If you get a chance, please check out the 40 page article at Schwab Learning by Russ Barkley.

I've posted on this before, so I won't belabor the point.

It's an excellent resource; as is the Sandra Rief book I mentioned in another thread of yours.

I know this can be confusing, so I hope I didn't make it worse.

When I get a chance, I'll finish explaining how I use Connect the Dots to help parents become better advocates for their kids.

tc
mctavish23
(Robert)