I'm frustrated to the max with what's going on. So, could someone, anyone give me some ideas, feedback, anything?!?!

My son is newly turned 7, Dx at age 5 1/2, after starting therapy shortly after he started Kindergarten. Within a few months he was put on meds, Adderall, then it wore off too quick, so Adderall XR, which I still felt wore off too early. About a month before he turned 6 (Jan of Kindergarten yr) he was put on Strattera, 25mg. He's typical in growth, a little over 4' & about 50-55lbs. Very active, very very athletic, hyper & very impulsive. Upon Dx a way back when the doc said he was in the top 5% of hyper/impulsive, meaning she didn't see too many kids that were as impulsive as he was. The meds, especially the Strattera seemed to work good. He's still hyper & impulsive, but tends to be better able to control himself, should he choose to do so. Also upon initial Dx, she said he was borderline aggressive. Had he been older she might consider him in the aggressive category, but it's aggressive vs. lack of knowledge of proper behavior, or just plain lack of ability to see cause & effect, not that he's intentionally trying to hurt someone or something he just keeps going & going till it something ends up happening. For the most part his schoolwork is consistently pretty good, aside from his distractibility & constant disruptions to the class. But I've been noticing that the harder the work gets, the less he wants to try to do it right. And I see areas where it seems he intentionally doesn't do what he's supposed to because he has to exert effort. He's only in 1st grade... it's just the beginning of his challenges. Over the past 5-6 weeks, I've noticed a decline in his behavior. He's gone from being somewhat focused to not able to at all. He will not follow directions. He's been sneaking toys to school & then gets them taken away, including his gameboy which he thought he could play during class. He's been pushing people down. This morning the school called because he was hitting another kid before school even started (turned out to be our neighbor who's 2 yrs older). At home he argues with me non-stop. I can't carry on a conversation with him, can't get him to do anything without having to scream at him or threaten what will happen if he doesn't do it. He lies about everything it seems, sneaks things, tries to hide things... the list of examples goes on & on. I am frustrated to the max. I have no patience with him anymore. Nothing works anymore. I'd say I probably "wear my feelings on my sleeve" for the most part & probably need to restrict that a bunch, but when my patience is gone, my frustration & eventually anger takes over. Our family situation is no different than it's always been. There's nothing traumatic going on, I've asked about problems at school, bullies, kids picking on him, anything I can think of & he tells me everything is the same as it always was.

So... my question to anyone is... is it me? Is he feeding off my frustration? Is it the difference in treatment between him & his sister? Is it lack of self esteem? Does it sound like something at school that he just doesn't want to tell me about? Is it meds? Is he to the age now where the behavior problems are finally showing up now that he can tell the difference usually between right & wrong, unlike when he was 5 & borderline? Is it the meds, like it needs to be a higher dose? Please give me some ideas!!!! I'm at my wits end & don't know whether to choke him (not literally!) or ignore him (well not exactly literally there either).

I'm sorry I have no answer for you as to why your son is behaving this way. What I can tell you is my son went thru exactly the very samething at the very same stage in his life. We started a reward system. He get's an award for every paper he has shown HONEST effort on and he get's two if he has trouble in a subject and bring's the grade up. At the end of the month he get's to choose the place we eat and the movie we see ( some month's money is scarce I know that,,,and to make the movie experiance more pleasurable for everyone we usually rent meaning he get's to pick two movies). Yes, the cost does add up but the headaches and fighting are far and few between. I'm gonna try and attach the award we use to this just save it and it's printable or make your own...It states two weeks,,,we just cross that off.

Hugs and good luck
Hollar if this doesn't work someone will have another idea for you
Cherity

Sorry complete brainstutter,,,We sat down with my son and discussed this with him. Based on the five core classes we decided that 5 rewards a day were the maximum amount he would recieve and that 90 were needed to collect his reward at the end of the month. At first we broke it down and did every two weeks but we now have two children in school so every two weeks we are usually rewarding someone and hey momma gets a day out of the kitchen can't beat that.

My son too went through the same thing at the same age. A couple things helped us. First, I joined Al-Anon. Its for friends and families of alcoholics. I don't know if that would apply to you, but I learned to quit yelling. Yelling just seems to make him worse (not surprising, after all).

Also, I tried counseling for both of us. I learned a lot of parenting skills and we both got to voice what was making us angry in a neutral situation.

Third, rewards and ignoring. I often ignored the bad behavior if I could (discipline didnt seem to be helping) and I rewarded the good behavior. The teacher had him on a daily note system, and he got rewards when he had so many good days. The bad days we just talked about. Also, I always try to find out if he's hungry, andgry, lonely, or tired and act accordingly. I did it for him when he was an infant, why not now?
Good luck and - IT GOT BETTER!
claudia

Originally posted by redletterruth

Third, rewards and ignoring. I often ignored the bad behavior if I could (discipline didnt seem to be helping) and I rewarded the good behavior. The teacher had him on a daily note system, and he got rewards when he had so many good days. The bad days we just talked about. Also, I always try to find out if he's hungry, andgry, lonely, or tired and act accordingly. I did it for him when he was an infant, why not now?
Good luck and - IT GOT BETTER!


We're working on this. The teacher has been providing behavior sheets for a couple days. So far, not so bad. I'm not good at ignoring behavior... but working on that, every moment of every day. Everyone has had great ideas. For the most part, like all of you have said, discipline doesn't really work. Arguing for sure doesn't work & only fuels the fire. I probably just need to learn to keep my big mouth shut for the most part. :)

Thanks everyone!

No you need to open your mouth just censure the word's that come out of it. <<THAT's the hardest part. But, I think you have it in you or you would not be here trying to learn and grow yourself.

Hugs
Cherity

OK evidently you can NEVER use the arrow's lol Next to the arrow I had put this is the hardest part; but, I am convinced you can do it...Just by coming and joining the forum's you show great strength and courage and thoughtfulness that in my book counts for a lot.

Yes "son" please don't fail to take every opportunity to praise yourself for all the GOOD things you do. One of the most horrible things about living with a son suffering fromadd was that in my heart, i sometimes thought it was all my fault and if i was a better mother it wouldnt have happened. i had to learn i didnt cause it and i couldnt control it. Big hugs to you !

I have a grandson who is going through a rough time with ADHD, and so are we. My daughter is a single mom even though he visits his dad regularly. He is 6 1/2 . In first grade. He was tested for learning disability at first because he was way behind in reading and language and terrible handwriting. He had trouble listening and being still and following directions. Mom daughter asked them to test him. He has the intelligence to learn the test showed but had to get getting refocused on the task at hand. The longer the test took the more fidgeted he got.
I have him every evening from 2 til 6 when my daughter gets home from work. I dread everyday him going home and trying to get him to do his homework. I give him small breaks they said this would help. It hasnt much. He still takes all evening to get it done and then sometimes he doesnt finish. I just want to cry. My husband and I have helped raise him, his mother lived with us till about a year ago. Still lives close and we still are with him lots during the day.
My daughter has been very frusted as I have. The father had ADD and knows how it is but his dad took the attitude to just whip him to make him mind. I think my grandson's tends to think we spoil him too much and don't make him mind. Even though he hisself has ADD, he thinks we should spank him.
My daughter thinks I spoil him. She hollers when she gets frustrated. I get frustrated to and sometimes show that Im aggravated to him which I know isn't good. My daughter put in on herbel medicine this weekend and now want let him have any sugar or caffeine. He begs me everyday and cries for a brownie or whatever. He also has been show lots of temper and throwing things or tearing things up when he is angry. I printed out a bunch of information from here and different web sites for her to read but she hasnt yet. When she was hollering and getting on to him so bad yesterday, I asked her if she had read the information she said she didnt have time. We sort of got upset with each other because I told her that you better make time. Its making it strained between us. I am so upset. I know we need to stick together but I think she just doesnt understand that he has low self esteem and doesnt need to be constantly put down with constandly told that his problems is that he just want listen. She is upset too and we both are floundering trying to figure what action to take. So I just keep praying that I can do the right thing to help him and to give me the strength for patience.
He can be so sweet and is adorable lots of the time but you can just tell that its like he has this motor running that he cant turn off.We dont really want to have him on meds we have heard some bad things about them.

Julie,

My children are not allowed caffeine or chocolate (stimulant's) because, their little bodies are already stimulated beyond control. But, I think it wonderful you take such an interest. And your right he will stay this way until his mom admit's there is a problem and tries to get him some help.

Do not give up
Hugs
Cherity

Julie-
your frustration and pain sounds so familiar. my son acted in similar ways but there was more going on- almost every wall had a hole in it by the time he was 8. (he's now 16 and i am just painting the patches now!). I finally put him on ritalin after two years of fighting it and the result was immediate- my son was smiling again. i know its a hard decision but i too applaud your love and your patience.
it does get better-
claudia

Julie, this is what my therapist said about the meds in general... when they're prescribed for a person for the right problem, all those "bad things" you hear don't exist. It's when these meds are prescribed for someone who truely doesn't need them that you get awful effects. She said that for most normal people, the stimulant meds would act like a wopping dose of speed in us. But for the people with ADHD who run on hyper-drive all the time, the meds are designed (not as a miracle cure) but to neurologically bridge the gap & slow the brain down JUST ENOUGH to give them that added split second thinking before a decision is made... for instance... "oh, gotta get my ball... & darting across the street, before looking" when it should be... "gotta look before I cross". We were told in Kindergarten not even 1/2 way through, that if he wasn't put on meds, the likelihood of the school suggesting a behavior disorder's class by the mid-1st gr. or 2nd would be high. Also, every person's neurotransmitter levels are different & the way the meds are designed obviously is to help. And if they don't, then it might be that the meds aren't raising the right neurotransmitter in the right place, therefore a change of meds is needed till there's a match. Just like maybe you have to take Tylenol for headaches, but it does nothing in me & I need Excedrin... same principle.

Has your grandson been diagnosed with ADHD yet? Or any other problems he may/may not have? There's lots of comorbidity & lots of things that appear to be ADHD which may not be. With mine, I've ruled out hearing & vision problems for sure.

Don't blame yourself. It sounds like you have amazing strength & patience... and you're on a journey to help, since you've searched enough already for info & what you've found through this forum. Don't give up! You & your grandson, & hopefully eventually your daughter will be very thankful in the end.

"Herbal" remedies do however make me extremely nervous. It is possible to have an allergic reaction to nature. Please, keep that in mind. And the FDA does not track herbal's as they do other meds which can make the meds dangerous as they may not be made consistantly the sameway every single time, this throws your body into a ruckus. K you can push me off my soapbox and big hugs for you ladies you deserve them.

I can't speak about meds as I have not gone that route.
My 8 year old is a whirlwind. Everything you have described Futs.
Impulsive to the Max. By the way he named himself Max. One thing he doesn't do, so far has been aggressive with other kids, thankgod, he plays rough when it is an agreed wrestling match.
We dont do soda or much sweets. I feel that in the past I have had success with making a big deal over the positive stuff.
In the last few days,
I have been having a hard time nt losing my temper. He has been on these rampages. I just recieved a few books on non-violent/threatning communication. I think they are very, very good, I just need to read them!! I also started him on the B'calm supplement. I am moving slowely towards a wheat free diet.
I have high hopes with that. It is just hard to get it together.
I have done a lot of research and found wheat free diets to be highly successfull for oppositional behavior.
I can't speak of school as my son has never been to school.
I am curious as to how he'd do. In the three neighborhoods we've lived in he has always been a leader type, fair as well with other kids, just not with his MOm.
He is very different and doesn't care what others think, he is never short on friends. But he is so hyper! wound up and the more he winds the more impulsive, reactive he gets. Then when limits are set, he just can't deal with it or accept it.

lol Makes me wonder if our children are related. But, don't lose hope ladies sound's to me like "our" children are not alone after all or the only ones with these kind of behaviours. AAAHHHH!!!!! safety in numbers lol. I am not making light of your situation but to be completly honest I take comfort that it's NOT just my kid's.

I have not changed their diet as radically as you have janine but then I have never heard of a wheat free diet and will have to do some more research. I'm not opposed to trying anything different in the diet area worst it's gonna do is make us healthier.

My son too was just as you describe until he hit the age of 10; I think I ignored small thing's that soon became huge and unconctrollable. I like to think the change was so subtle that I didn't notice or I can't deal with the fact that I failed him. My son is on meds for depression. Society has a way sometimes of breaking the spirit of those who are different. In hindesight I can offer the advice reinforce that he can come to you for ANYTHING, make time for his "ANYTHING", love him hard and love him hard every single day, support, comfort and rules and consequences but also rewards.

Good luck,
Cherity

Thanks everyone. So far he has not being seen by a doctor. The school did testing for learning disability and said he was smart and able to do the work. I think at the meeting my daughter had with them they led her to believe it migh be ADD. That she could check it out. So far the herbal medicine hasn't seem to help him. He is still running around like crazy. We haven't given him any caffeine or sugar products or chocolate, havent noticed a difference yet on that. May take a little time. It has helped so much to have this board to come to and get advise. I have gotten a lot of support and useful information. I'm trying to learn by whats worked with other people. Yes, it definitely helps knowing that he is the only little boy with this out there. There is so much good in him. I can tell he wants to please, and he can be very loving when he is not in a temper. You just have to catch him on the run. Anyway thanks everyone. I definitely am not going to give up on this special little boy and I will keep trying and trying to work with my daughter to find what works best for him. God Bless the children.

I don't know if this is the case with your son, but we had a very difficult year with our boy last year in 2nd grade. He started getting into trouble at school which told us it wasn't just our parenting. We ended up taking him off stimulants. Right now he takes Strattera and Seroquel. Seroquel is a mild antipsychotic which is good for keeping the anger under control and getting him to sleep at night. If there is something other than ADD going on, you need to address that. You may need to see an adolescent psychiatrist to have him evaluated for other diagnoses. As we got deeper into this, we also found out my wife is bipolar which contributed to a lot of the yelling. This isn't that unusual as so many mood disorders are inherited. Good luck!

Drugs like Strattera often stop working after a while - most "reuptake inhibitor" drugs seem to do this in some people.
Dr's will rotate the drug with another similar one, to give the brain a vacation from the drug - typically 6 weeks is the amount of time it takes for the brain to re-adjust. Your son's behavior could be the result of this - you're not doing anything differently, the drug is. Ask your Dr!
Good Luck,
Greg

I'm been trying to learn and listen to all of you how you handle your frustration and what seems to work. Yesterday I had a really bad day with my grandson, he seemed so angry and he screamed at me twice. I told him to come sit by me and talk. I said that I wouldn't let him yell at me and act that way. He threw the remote across the floor. I made him pick it up. He was unmanageable and even hit me at one point. He didn't hurt he's only 61/2 but its the thought.
I try not to yell at him and get too frustrated but yesterday was so bad. I felt like telling my daughter that I didn't seem to be helping him and that maybe she needed to find someone else.

I love the little fellow so much but even though sometimes he hugs me a loves me and is so sweet. Then sometimes for no reason that I am aware of he gets so angry. Then he will cut up paper and tear it. Anything he can think of to get to me. I wonder where this anger is coming from. He is so loved and has so much support.I just have no idea how to handle him.

Everyone says to spank him. Not to let him get away with it. I love him like my own and I worry so much how he will act at 16.My daughter is waiting on the daddy's insurance to kick in so she can take him to the Dr.

I am so unsure. I want to help the problem not make it worse. Maybe I do let get away with unacceptable behavior but I have never had to deal with this before. I want to help him so much. He is precious. I have prayed about it and until he gets tested we can't get much understanding from the school and if he needs medicine, I hate to put it off.
I would just pay for it outright but I don't know if its more than I could afford.
I have tried rewarding the good behavior and he seems so pleased but when he is wired I just don't honestly know how to handle it.
Frustrated grandmother who is getting worn out. But will keep fighting to help her grandson. Who I know is worth it.

I've certainly gone through this with my son. Kindergarden and 1st grade were very hard. The best advice I can give, is something my son's counselor suggested/gave to me. And I wish I had been given this when my son was that young. He is 12 now, and had just turned 11 when I started this. You need to get and view the video called, 1-2-3 Magic. Then get the book, too. I have both. In fact, I was refreshing myself on this just yesterday and realized there were things I'd recently forgotten and started doing (like the yelling! and such). Get the video first! It is truly amazing, and I can't believe the change it made. Truly!

1-2-3 Magic, by Thomas Phelan

My sister tried to tell me about it, but I didn't get it then. If she had only had the video to show me... man.. the years I spent doing the wrong thing. I strongly suggest it! I suggest it to my son's teachers now too!

Is it me, my son, the meds, or intentional behavior
===================================

there has already been a lot said.

all the above,...i read add is the environment.

nothing workthwhile is easy.

a diamond was once a lump of coal under extremme pressure.

add envirnment under pressure could very well be worth quite a bit when you stick it out. and communicate. have you heard the serenity prayer? :) i got it hanging in the house.

i pray for calmness for us all. :)

you can do it!

OK we know yelling isn't going to cut it. Have you and your daughter tried a reward system of any kind? This has saved my sanity in so many way's with my own kid's I can't even tell you. I will tell you how we implemented our's and how it work's see if it can help you guy's any.

1.) Identify area's of bad behaviour's that need modifying NOW...hitting, tantrums etc.

2.) Discuss these issue's with your grandson

3.) Make a graph; listing the area's of concern; mark it like a calander; he get's a check mark for everyday he has not had this behaviour.

4.) Give him a visual reward...such as the one I'm going to paste below.

5.) After so many reward's he get's a prize...toy, movie etc.

This has saved us many times. NOt only do the kid's see what they need to work on but they get rewarded for not having these behaviour's NOTHING in our house comes without a price anymore.

I have also noticed bad behaviour's increase when the energy levels are extremely high. I think it's something to do with energy they don't know how to use constructivly and it becomes something awful and ugly. We have started using this chart to make sure they are burning off the excess energy. lol I have ton's and ton's of chart's. Like I said before nothing but love comes free in our house.

When a plan of action is agreed upon make sure all care givers follow thru and are very structured. Make sure and reinforce and compliment him on good behaviour's. Remind him it's not him that is bad but the behaviour.

Good Luck.

Thanks so much for the good advice. I will get the video 123 magic, and it sounds like good ideas to give him rewards. I have tried rewarding him for certain things but it hasn't lasted. I am going to print the things you put to try to help him. Thanks everyone. At this point when I get so discourage, I come to this board and it really helps. I feel like I am the only one who thinks patience and being positive is the way to go. The family agrees on being positive but they think if he misbehaves that I am too easy on him. I always come away from the boards with more energy and able to face the problems better. Thanks to everyone.,

Update on the Good Behaviour Award. Some of the children in Dakota and Lexi's class were getting upset because they were receiving award's and they were not. After a couple of quick phone calls it was agreed the teacher would pass them out to all deserving children and at the end of the day if each child received at least 3 awards per week parent's will take turn's sending a treat for the entire class on Friday. You may talk to your grandson's teacher and see if this is something she would be interested in trying and print up a little note asking for help from the other parent's. My son has 19 kids in his class and his teacher's only problem was deciding who got to go first lol.

I have ordered the book 1-2--3 Magic from Amazon and am waiting for it to arrive. I just hope it can help some. I also printed the award for good behavior and gave my grandson a couple already. I told him when he had 5 that I would get him a surprise
Today he acted out again. I had my other grandson too who is 7 months old. My grandson adores him but I think he is a little jealous too. He wanted me to go outside with him to play like I usually do and he got very upset when I said I couldn't for him to go in the front yard and swing.
He got very angry threw a couple of things around. I told him looking him in the eyes in a calm voice to stop it. He then proceeded to lay down on the floor close to where I was sitting and putting his foot on my leg and kept pushing on it.
He started blowing out his nose and making an angry sound.
This behavior worries me to know in. He even said at one point that he knew that he was supposed to control his anger in a better way, but that he was just so mad.
His dad when goes to his house will spank him and then he goes to his room. I asked my grandson did this work and he said know. Even though my daughter said that when he spanked him, his dad had said he acted better the rest of the weekend.
I told her I just don't want to spank him that I believe that that teaches him to treat hitting with hitting. I'm so confused. One day he will have a good day and be so sweet and helpful and I feel like we are making progress, then the next total rudeness and acting out. Then I think I don't know if I am making him worse. Which I had a quick fix. All I know is I love him so much and I am really worried. How is he going to be when he is a teenager.
Thanks group for listening again....it sure helps to vent after a bad day. No one in my family wants to hear it. They think I need to use other methods.
Thank God for you people who listen and give me advise that I can actually use. I a grandmother and I thought my days of raising kids were over. Of course I wouldn't have it any other way. I love being in my grandchildren so much. I thank God for all of them.