This is a joke..... The headlines contradict themselves.

What do you guys/gals think of this?

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I'm not so great at watching stuff these days
drift off :-)
though if the question is as defined in part(s) ---1--- and ---2--- (below) and in red

part ---1---
do ADHD drugs work long term?

Yes - the level which we take the drugs at cannot lead to tolerance - and the mechanism is fundamental to life -
- the first organism carrying a nervous system had a dopaminergic circuit -
- this is useful (not proof though) of the longevity of the system which our drugs target -
as does it help to observe the intimacy between the dopaminergic circuit and

(i) motion (controlled) (Parkinson's disease is a disease of the central dopaminergic circuit)

(ii) mind (knowledge) (assistance in learning :-) ~aka~ meds to help us concentrate)

(iii) love (Platonic) (the pleasure molecule)

So - :-)
these observations are strongly suggestive that we can't just throw a spanner in the works of the workings of the central dopaminergic cog -
and I think that (and from previously on the forum (written by ADDF::Stabile from personal experimentation)) -
that -
- that -
- worries can be alayed if it's seen that there's a very very very high threshold for intake of the medication - and also for a looong period -
before the dopaminergic system is (structurally) altered
- beyond the physiological bounds within which it happily oscillates.

What does that final sentence actually mean ?
->
(- beyond the physiological bounds within which it happily oscillates.)

We can take a small step, a normal step, a jump - a long jump -
only though when we attempt the (simultaneous) combination of

a long jump
.......+
a hop, skip and a jump
.......+
Monty Python's 'Ministry of Silly Walks' erm... 'silly walk #4'
.......+
pelvic thrust

do we put on our underpant's warning blue fluorescent back-lit message of

'desist from such silliness - groin strain imminent'

across the back and front panels of one's comfortable and baggy reinforced gusset.

What does that final sentence actually mean ? - (summary)

there's no real way of the drugs not working -
systemic alterations to the core biological pathway of life - is unlikely possible - without extreme stressor activity.

part ---2---
might ADHD drugs seem to lose their effectiveness ?

yes -
- but this doesn't mean that the active constituent within the pill is not working.

It's just a case of 'not really wanting to' - regardless of thinking that one does :-)

from yesterday

ADD
A.D.D.

A.
D.ysjunctional
D.ysfunction

- an unseemly disagreement between one's :-) conscious and subconscious minds.

Haven't watched it, but how do they define 'effective'?

If stimulants improve mental clarity by a noticeable (but not necessarily equivalent) amount at 1 month and at 10 years, then to me they remain effective.

I've seen much better presentations from middle school students. The editing was atrocious.

LMAO! Around 5:23 into the clip I was about to fall out of my chair from laughing so hard.
Who is this girl and where did she learn how to make such a great case!? Everyone's got their own opinions and needs to make their own decisions after weighing out both the pros and cons... but the people making these 'typically' biased type of presentations just look like idiots! It's bringing back memories from a certain Tom Cruise interview... :cool:

not effective? did they regress? did they take these kids off of these drugs and then looked at THAT long term effect?

we all here know that the first week of taking any of these AD/HD drugs we all notice a decline in effect, but I'd hardly call it ineffective. The whole time she talked about ADHD...my child is not hyperactive and has been on only 5mg of Adderall for a year. There was no behavioral changes at all but a dramatic change in performance. Behaviour is what it is...how can any research isolate behavioral changes from parent-child / teacher-child interaction? Psychiatrists can't even agree of a definitive diagnostic criteria and most psychiatrists see a patient once a month for maybe 30 minutes to 1 hr and say "gee, try this, lemme know if it works."

I'm glad my doc suggested I'd try Adderall and I'm glad my daughters peds suggested the same for her. We're still the same people. If the school my daughter goes to would like to change her learning environment to include barbie movies and books that teach math and science and instruction that doesn't involve sitting at a desk for hours at at time I think she's flourish without these meds. As it stands, don't blame us parents for giving our children something that keeps them on task, stops them from feeling stupid, stops them from hating school and keeps them from getting into trouble.

Let me know when the NIH and these psychiatrists analyse these "alternative behavioral methods" and compare them with medication on a long term study. Then switch them and see which ones these kids prefer...

From personal experience, back in the days, when my undiagnosed ADD got me in trouble I got pelted with a belt or made to feel stupid in the classroom cause I couldn't concentrate long enough to read.

Now with medication, my kid blends in as is just like any other kid and no one would ever know...and finally other kids stopped commenting on how slow and spaced out she was in class.

5mg of that stuff is priceless and the teacher can focus on teaching the children and not on laborous schemes to behavioral changes that publicly shame kids into feeling different.

[/rant]

This thread is turning out to be more fun than I thought!

In order for this to make sense, one has to believe that ADHD/ADD can be cured. Wait a minute! The people producing these videos are promoting a chiropractor who is available at a wonderful health center. It's all about money. Fade out to music from Cabaret.

If anyone is interested, the comments left by viewers at youtube were better than the videos.

It took one minute and 23 seconds for me to loose interest and hit stop - the tid bit of knowledge apparently forgotten is ADHD drugs can only be so effective - but if the presentation is way boring there aren't enough orange pills on the freaking planet . . .



The speaker was boring first rattle out of the sack - so their knowledge apparently falls into the drug classification hypnotic = like dalmine, halcion, ambien, which are sleeping pills = video is a real snoozer!

LMAO! Around 5:23 into the clip I was about to fall out of my chair from laughing so hard.
Who is this girl and where did she learn how to make such a great case!? Everyone's got their own opinions and needs to make their own decisions after weighing out both the pros and cons... but the people making these 'typically' biased type of presentations just look like idiots! It's bringing back memories from a certain Tom Cruise interview... :cool:


I think I skipped to this point in the video, but I'm not sure if it was the exact point. At some point, she made some statements about the "physical dependency" associated with the meds. She made it seem as if withdrawing from the meds is something serious, and requires medical attention (like withdrawing from benzos). So she is definitely biased.

If anyone is interested, the comments left by viewers at youtube were better than the videos.

eg

I was just diagnosed with ADHD. Can we go out and you tell me more about it? you look great!


:-)

It took one minute and 23 seconds for me to loose interest and hit stop - the tid bit of knowledge apparently forgotten is ADHD drugs can only be so effective - but if the presentation is way boring there aren't enough orange pills on the freaking planet . . .



The speaker was boring first rattle out of the sack - so their knowledge apparently falls into the drug classification hypnotic = like dalmine, halcion, ambien, which are sleeping pills = video is a real snoozer!Good point! I've been researching another topic and it finally struck me that if these people want me to sign up, pay for legal fees, lobby in Washington, boycott products, spread the word on any forum who will let me, join the revolution and sacrifice my first born ADHD child, why the heck are they writing such long essays! They need to fire their marketing advisors and quit paying their directors. Wait a minute! They couldn't possibly be stupid, could they? And they say we're impulsive.

oh my gosh !!!
http://spf.fotologs.net/photo/15/30/105/que_infancia/1167839914_f.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pg_vnSR-fQ)
pesky geneticists ...ehhh ??



(personally - I preferred him before the op
- and when more :-) animated)

Gee, I wonder if we went her nutrition website we could find a "healthier" cure for a small fee$ Bets anyone!?

Gee, I wonder if we went her nutrition website we could find a "healthier" cure for a small fee$ Bets anyone!?Picture this: Joel Grey and the lovely Liza Minnelli singing, Money Makes the World Go Around.

I think there's just a a lot of misdiagnosed people. They should focus on making better DSM criteria for disorders like ADD and ADHD and educating professionals that many other things ranging from bad diet to bad parenting cause symptoms that make people have high scores on AD(H)D tests.

I don't wanna sound like "he I really have ADD and many other people just think they have it". I just genuinely think the condition is much more rare than current amount of diagnosed people indicates.
I'm not even totally sure what the hell is "wrong" with me exactly either but I do know that people with the weird concentrationproblems(amongst others) I have are pretty hard to find. And I do know that in the six months I've been on "children coke"(haha!) I'm very slowly feeling more and more, really, just "normal" is the best word.
On some internetfora you read people suddenly recognizing many other people with the disorder, well, I think it's exactly those people that are probably misdiagnosed and should probably not be taking any add meds. Or what about "I can study well now but damn how I miss my creativity!" Pfffffff.
Lol, I also realize the amount of borderline and bipolar type personalities on any psych-related forum is extremely high. You know, those forumcontrollfreaks and stuff. ADD has become their label of choice now I guess;)

Anyhow, dont you dare touch my concerta!;) Maybe it stops working in 6 months, I dont care! My lifes been a mess and I'm slowly cleaning it up now instead of making it worse. All thanks to "my kiddycoke"! Don't you dare touch it!!!;)

Want to add a little to this.(dont see any edit button so I do it this way)

My experience up to now is that it takes quite a while to get used to this type of medication. Especially ritalin took me a few months to even find right way of taking it. Concerta I have been using shortly but probably because I was allready adapted to the substance it worked great(better!!!) say from day 3 I think.

I can imagine very well that especially with kids it's a very hard task to adjust the medication intake as to be most effective and causing minimal side-effects. They just take their prescribed dose at exactly prescribed times but, hell, do they know whats happening to them. Pfff, for ritalin I'd say you'd need consultation of a professional or someone with knowledge of this at least 2 times a week for at least 2 months.

I will get back to this when I have more experience with concerta but everything tells me rightnow that especially with kids ritalin is a good start too(after proper diagnose and trying diet first) but first months should be monitored by a professional extremely close to see if they dont just get some rush causing positive response too and to adjust intake intervals and dosage properly. After a few months there should be very good evaluation and I have hard time making up criteria too(but im not a professional either) but then one can descide to go for a proper time released version or not.

Another thing with finding right dose and intake intervals of ritalin;
I think oficially they say 4 hour intervals or 3 to 4 hours, I'm not sure. I totally agree with that but it just doesn't work. Cause for me for instance the concentration in blood after 2,5 hours I think starts reaching a level that's really taking me back into my ADD "cloud", you want to take a new dose but(I tried covering this by taking half a dose after 2 hours and taking next later than normal) if you do you are overdosing and amphetamine rush kicks in. I still find that for me 3 hour intervals(I did 3x and later 4x(ok) and last 5x 10mg(not good!) a day) are best but there definately is quite some leftovers in blood after this time. So next to the the ups and downs I think one will always overdose a little to get best results.
To cut a long story short, ritalin I think will always cause problems and because one is tempted to overdose and there is easy possibilities of doing so it's just not suitable for kids without strict supervision.

For kids another positive thing about time released products I think is that outright abuse to me seems almost impossible. I don't think many kids who really benefit from the meds are even tempted to do so but it is a fact that there's even kids snorting ritalin. With time released products one can only double the dose for instance but that will be visible to parents right away.

Anywow, I think this girl is talking nonsense. There's just quite a few people that shouldnt be taking these meds and the amphetamine stigma is making people like this girl feel like they have to cure the world from add medication alltogether.

A nice Church of Scientology production. Seeing as this hasn't been mentioned here, it's also pretty well disguised. Note the links to CoS operated websites in the descriptions of this user's videos.

the very existence and reaction to the scientologists tells us so much about the mind -
the very reaction defines the mind as being something.
Regardless of whether any psych- discipline is wrong -
a psych- must exist based on the difference in opinion.

If the stuff on the web about those guys is mostly correct -
the mind is shown to be a truly remarkable reality generator
and psych- (or at least a model based psych-) validated.

Purely from an academic perspective -
and in any field we care to choose -

why do we find so many people who're so sure they're right -
despite seeing people who vehemently disagree right in front of their eyes ?

why do we find so many people who're so sure they're right -
and without any method for explaining for why ?

So - I think I know the answer -
- how does one then go about re-introducing uncertainty?

It liberates as soon as the free-falling abates.

- ps -
none of these questions need reply.

Bah. Even with my meds I was unable to pay attention long enough to watch the whole video. My mind turned to something more interesting. ;)

Summary of the video:

Ad(h)d drugs are not effective, because

a) they stunt children growth
b) there are no beneficial effects after long term use

I can't agree or disagree with the first observation, and it may be true, at least I have heard people commenting a lot on that, and it does make sense, but it is not a measure of effectiveness. Its better described as a side effect, but it is indeed not a desirable one.

The second follows fuzzy logic - the drugs are not effective because they don't have beneficial effects :) So I assume people with ADD did not improve concentration/motivation while on drugs. That is highly debatable, because very many people with AD(H) see dramatic improvements while on drugs.

But what I think the video meant, was that AD(H)D drugs are ineffective because they don't cure the AD(H)D, and they loose potency over time, so you need to keep increasing the dosage. Well, its hard to argue with that. But they do help to manage the symptoms, and in the absence of a cure to AD(H)D, thats the best option we have.

no long term effects, just long term effects.

Why are the scientologists so desperate to tell everyone that medication for mental health issues is wrong?

I wonder if they just believe they know the truth or if there's something more sinister going on =/

What demographic is she trying to reach?

If she wants to reach us ADDr's she needs to wear bright clothes, jump up and down, and edit in funny commentary from the Family Guy.

This is the most boring video EVER. Can't watch it.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ineffective blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ritilan blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah take blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah your blah blah blah blah blah blah blah clothes blah blah blah blah blah blah blah off blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

The only argument I can see as FEASIBLE:

ADD drugs do not continue to have any benefit, unless they are taken regularly forever.. But doing this CAN cause side-effects eventually, Side-effects may be due to the individual's natural changes in state of health, taken place after the original first good years or months.

:)

Why are the scientologists so desperate to tell everyone that medication for mental health issues is wrong?

I can think of several reasons:

- It makes Scientologists less likely to see psychiatric care; they're more likely to seek care within the CoS.
- The CoS has its origins as something of a replacement for psychiatry (Dianetics); it competes for the same customer base.
- It provides an enemy. It always helps to have an enemy (real or imagined; a person, people, concept, thing, etc.); a common enemy can be used to unite a group. This applies whether or not the organisation is good, bad, or neutral. The use of an enemy as part of a group's philosophy is not necessarily a negative thing.
- The stigma associated with being under psychiatric care means that people who have been helped by it are perhaps less likely to publicly come to its defense.
- Perhaps L. Ron didn't like shrinks.

ADD drugs do not continue to have any benefit, unless they are taken regularly forever.. But doing this CAN cause side-effects eventually, Side-effects may be due to the individual's natural changes in state of health, taken place after the original first good years or months.

ADD translation - ADD medication will not prevent one from growing old and dying of some thing {well crap . . . .wake me when the fountain of youth is found}




Why are the scientologists so desperate to tell everyone that medication for mental health issues is wrong?

They do not want people using their money on effective treatments when $cientologist have a gimmick called auditing that people can spend their money on - information on Scientology (http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html) every thing you wanted to know but were afraid to ask and then some.

The only argument I can see as FEASIBLE:

ADD drugs do not continue to have any benefit, unless they are taken regularly forever.. But doing this CAN cause side-effects eventually, Side-effects may be due to the individual's natural changes in state of health, taken place after the original first good years or months.


Drugs used for cancer pain do not continue to have any benefit, unless they are taken regularly forever.. But doing this CAN cause side-effects eventually, Side-effects may be due to the individual's natural changes in state of health, taken place after the original first good years or months.

Replace cancer pain with high blood pressure, diabetes, migraines... pretty much every chronic condition.

Replace cancer pain with high blood pressure, diabetes, migraines... pretty much every chronic condition.
Ya, taking that stuff can become a nightmare eventually.