I know I have another thread, but it seems to be hijacked off topic.

I want to know (and I asks this because i'm obsessing on the long term health effects that might cause me to stop taking the drugs that work for me- concerta 36x2):

Are we choosing to have a better life instead of a longer life by taking stimulants that increase the heart rate and tax the cardio system?

Keep this topic on subject please, cause i'm really sweating this higher pulse rate thing, even though the meds are working GREAT. I'm even thinking at the very least to lower my dose to 54 to make it better on my system.

I have touches of all the ADHD types, but "ring of fire" is the main one. I also tend to have the OCD side effects (the reason I can't stop thinking about the possiblity that I'm harming my body).

It does seem a bit like quality of life requires burning one's candle at both ends. I'm sorry from not sticking entirely to the topic, but I'm reminded of the time I went looking into caloric reduction, with a view to extending my life expectancy, and thinking that if all you're spending those extra years on is feeling hungry, there isn't much of a point.

I'm not on anything other than caffeine at the moment, and I'm hoping against hope I'll somehow manage this way.

My heart rate is concerning me. If I do ANYTHING it feels like it starts to pound. Heck even if I play a video game

I'm going to doc tomorrow.

I've asked the same question myself and I had a discussion with my brother. ADHD has made me miserable. My brother came to visit me from out of state and he was concerned about my living situation and my general functioning. We both agreed that quality of life was more important than the quantity of my life.

I would try to switch to a lower dose though and see how that works out. Or perhaps switching to another medication would be less stressful on your system.

have to weigh the pros and cons.. but one would also wonder if the added stress of not being medicated.. might cause our hearts and bodies to age as well

This might sound a bit extreme but there's also the possibility that someone suffering from untreated ADHD could become depressed and commit suicide. I've felt suicidal before but fortunately, I've never attempted it and I'm glad to be alive. But yeah, suicide will definitely shorten your life, which would ruin the whole point of refusing medication in the first place.

It might come down to quality of life versus quantity of life, you know?

We don't go the med route, and I don't recall any studies that show that ADHD meds reduce the life span, maybe in 50 years or so we might know something on a larger scale. With other meds though, sometimes you do have to make that known choice. Not to minimise your question at all, I have a dog that has epilepsy. I have to weigh the risk of neurological damage due to her seizures to the shortened life span expected of those long-term on phenobarb. Some of the other posters brought up some excellent points about the quality of life being non-medicated, and the risks of impulsive behaviour, depression, relational and career issues, low self-esteem, and self-medicating. These things are definitely not conducive to a long and happy life.

Oh, and from what little I know about OCD and the stims, sometimes the stim type of meds can make the anxiety manifestations of OCD worse. Maybe you could investigate other forms of medications. There are some with the ring-of-fire type of ADHD having some good results on the amino acid phosphytidyl serine, with no side-effects, if you are interested in other options.

My mind only has two settings: Now, and Not Now. The future is Not Now. Taking the pills and being less suicidal is now.

I've feared this myself many times, and even come to quit t

no, unless you have researched this and can provide scientific evidence backing up your hypothesis.

Why do we exercise, isn't it to "tax" our cardio system to make it stronger? If we don't tax our cardio system doesn't it become weak?

I for one am able to be much more health concious on my medication. I'm much healthier since I started taking stimulants a few years ago because I take better care of myself.

In no way do I feel or think I am choosing some kind of trade like a better but shorter life.

Hey,
I think this is a great question, great because it's we should be asking all these kinds of questions about medicines and about adhd in general.

But ... I think the answer is clearly, emphatically, "No!" We are NOT trading off extra years in favor of better years.

Here's why:
1.) ADHD is not cute; it is real. People untreated with adhd have higher rates of addictions of all kinds, depression, car accidents, bankruptcies and a host of other problems.

2.)The above problems can all reduce life span.

a.) Depression is extremely dangerous. In addition to suicide, depression is bad for the heart, and horrible for the brain. People who have suffered depression (longer spells) have higher rates of Dementia when they age and higher rates of Alzheimer's (from the research I've read.)

b.) Car accidents can kill.

c.) Addictions can kill, including cigarette addictions but obviously other drug addictions, which are higher in people with untreated adhd than in those who are treated.

d.) Bad judgement can kill--bad judgment and impulsive actions at key moments can place our lives in danger.

e.)The toll adhd takes on relationships--blocking intimacy and true support--probably reduces the life span. People with good friends and support tend to live longer and better than people who are isolated. And adhd definitely isolates.

Now, if you are really worried about the impact of stimulants, then I say be aggressive and schedule some visits to a cardiologist. Find one you trust. Let him run tests on you. Get him to look at the effect the stimulants are having and see if you can come up with a plan to minimize any bad effects.

But the blunt answer is No; untreated adhd reduces the quality of the years AND THE QUANTITY of the years we have on this planet. This is NOT one of those cases where there is a trade-off.


Tone

My heart rate is concerning me. If I do ANYTHING it feels like it starts to pound. Heck even if I play a video game

I'm going to doc tomorrow.

I've experienced the same concern about heart rate, because my heart kept pounding from simple things like going up the stairs (med term is heart palpitations).

Because of that, I went from 54 mg Concerta back to 45mg, which helped reduce the palpitations alot. I've read that heart palpitations is a normal side effect of starting a new dosage of Concerta, and should go away with time.

The other change (and check with your doc before doing this) is that because 45mg is a combo of the 18mg and 27mg pills, I start the day with an 18mg pill, then take the 27 mg pill 2-3 hours later. It really helps smoothen out the effect of Concerta.

Even when taking the dosages with a 2 hour gap I can feel my body being a bit more 'tense' than if I take it with a 3 hour gap. That tension is only for about an hour after the 2nd pill kicks in, but still, I can tell a difference.

When a new dose is started, some people feel this extreme focus period, then worry after they experience dips in effectiveness of the drug. The extreme focus is not the norm, and it's normal to have 'crash' days where the drug doesnt seem to work at all (especially when other factors are involved ie sleep, diet, etc).

People who have stayed on their dose long-term have mentioned how they 'hardly notice it kicking in' when they take it. That's the same for me, and I've been on the same dose for a almost a year, although that's not really long-term yet.

Maybe because you've been continually bumping dosages after the 'superfocused' period wears off, your body hasnt been able to get used to one particular dose long enough to see if it is good for you long-term.

Answer these 2 questions:

1) Metta, how long have you been on this 36x2 dosage for?

2) And how long have you stayed on a dose before bumping it up to the next one?

But the blunt answer is No; untreated adhd reduces the quality of the years AND THE QUANTITY of the years we have on this planet. This is NOT one of those cases where there is a trade-off.


I guess 4-5 years ago I was driving recklessly on a dirt road. I was not injured but it nearly totaled my vechical and I have been allmost totally unemployed since( I'm the untreated person living the "long" life/sentence in a virtual Mexican prison :) ).

Sorry to hear of your difficulties, Theta. I hope you can one day get employment of some sort.

I don't believe it's a trade off for me personally, because I have had fatigue, low blood pressure, low self esteem, and a lower than average heart rate for decades. I even dropped out of one year of high school because I could do nothing much more than sleep and feel disgusted with life. Instead of being treated I instinctively self medicated with coffee, cigarettes, and alcohol for years, and I was treated with various antidepressants which did nothing to fix my concentration and memory. Prescribed stimulants (and my social support network) are saving my life right now.

Having said that, even if stimulants would slowly kill me, I'd take that option over more years of being one of the monsters from "Dawn of the Dead". However I do recognize that people with hypertension or obesity or heart problems need to watch out and be careful, and therefore stimulants are not a one-size-fits-all solution. Like others have said, get yourself to a doctor ASAP. You may need to make some lifestyle changes (i.e., exercise more, change diet, alter sleep patterns) so that you can improve your cardio health enough for stims to be safe.

The stimulants help me to be ABLE to make the lifestyle changes necessary to combat the ADD effects. So for me, the trade off is worth it, even though there are risks with the hypertension, heart rate, etc.

Hey, my dad died of a heart attack at 38, so I've already got three years on him. And my mom's an alcoholic, likely because she has undiagnosed and untreated ADD. I'll take the heart risk of the stimulants over my mother's life any day.

Sandy

one is your choice.
....you can choose you be the best you can.

but, death, is not a choice.
.....it's a fact.

you can die when your born
or you can die when you're so old, you don't know who you are.

IF I was givin a choice.
.....I choose to be present inside myself, as long as i live.

I don't wanna wonder around in limbo ttill I'm 102 or anything.

anytime between now and 69 sounds good to me.

....I'm already a flake.