View Full Version : Why do we want to live?


scottm
05-15-08, 09:42 AM
Just curious...been trying to think of a reason but am drawing a blank.
(insert jeopardy theme song)

does life suck? no. not all the time

if 10 people live a good life without any significant problems, does that mean the equal amount of people must suffer? (i.e. can't have joy without pain)

is it considered rude to suffer alone or should we be sucking other people into our misery?

-s

newfdog
05-15-08, 10:05 AM
is it considered rude to suffer alone or should we be sucking other people into our misery?

-s

Personally, I normally don't complain to anyone as half of them don't care and the other half feel you got was coming to you.

addluk
05-15-08, 06:40 PM
My head, once drew a blank...

from the end of a smoking
empty
(r)evolver.


Been killing me ever since.
A reason for living...

>[need and want]>
oo[need n want]n<

Is the joy of pain shared equally?
You put it 'like that?'...
...well
question when.

Is it considered rude to suffer alone or should we be sucking other people into our misery?
Good question!

pose: in'differently

1.'suffer alone'
2.'others'
3.'our misery'

1. Wrong or Right?
2. Guilt\/Blame
3. companion(s)hip

The answer seems to be three, all
(one to three)
considered.

The other answer.
que- [jeopardy's theme song]
What is fun?
[/song]

Are you the singer
or?
are you the band.
Are you the board
or?
are you the hand.

What is fun?


What is fun?

What is fun?

this?


THIS?

or,

i(s)? it

{blue pink red}

./.\
..?.
/...\/
.....
|...|

Real-ly |This|

-=Smile!=-

:)

:)(end wave!)

>>>.<<<

Tracy remembers ...
:)"Hey SB, why are there so many guests watching us?!LOL!???":)

I see three
Now.
Really.

(and one member=)

I wonder where 'scottm' wandered off too?

oh well...

guess I'll c-ya...
(who-ever you guys a b)

Mincan
05-15-08, 09:36 PM
Just curious...been trying to think of a reason but am drawing a blank.
(insert jeopardy theme song)

does life suck? no. not all the time

if 10 people live a good life without any significant problems, does that mean the equal amount of people must suffer? (i.e. can't have joy without pain)

is it considered rude to suffer alone or should we be sucking other people into our misery?

-s

Simply, to pass on your genes, or in the 21st century, to get laid as much as possible as soon as possible before your genes don't care about you and start letting you rot... which for me is starting right . about . now. (im 21)

No really, the only point is to extract as much joy as possible however you manage to do it... if you have a conscious, that will come into play as to what you will and will not do.

If you see no purpose, by all means, move to Switzerland and have the government euthanise you ... now that's awesome!

Does anyone notice I don't post as much when I'm doing great! :D

(don't worry I'll be back! I'm making the "most rambuncious (sp?) new forummer" forummer this year with my record amount of infractions in such short time... and taking them in stride!)

texasmissb
05-15-08, 09:51 PM
if 10 people live a good life without any significant problems, does that mean the equal amount of people must suffer? (i.e. can't have joy without pain)

Are there really... any people who never have any significant problems. I have never known any, the people I thought didn't, really did, once I got to know them.

is it considered rude to suffer alone or should we be sucking other people into our misery?

Yes, misery loves company. Why would you want to be selfish and keep it all to yourself! We dont have to suck them in we can send invitations. There is enough in the world for everyone ;).

SuzzanneX
05-15-08, 10:23 PM
If you threaten to kill someone threatening suicide...
....then they wanna live.

my ex was suicidal....
....I used to hide the gun...he came in and asked where it was...
and I said...I'm gonna kill you my fuking self if you don't stop acting like a nut!
....he just walked off looking nutralized.


it's like if you are gonna dump someone you're dating, and they break up with you first.
....then you can't live with out em.

dyingInside
05-15-08, 10:56 PM
Life sucks ... but it's way better than the alternative... taking a dust nap... no thanks.

Find some obligation and attach yourself to it. That's how I got past it. It could be a promise made to someone on his deathbed, or a responsibility to someone who needs your help. Something you can't rationalize your way out of. I have to go on living, there is no alternative. So I might as well learn to like it (if only a little).

addluk
05-15-08, 11:21 PM
That's weird.

My posts were merged,
and I think some are missing.
(but you know me)
I am not forgetful.
Who am I?
(can t you see)
?me in you

Mincan
05-15-08, 11:30 PM
Susane X is insightful and sexy in a never-seen-you-but-like-you-on-the net-kind of way.

addluk
05-15-08, 11:39 PM
It is an attracting avatar,
SuzzaneX.

SuzzanneX
05-16-08, 01:10 AM
'm think I'm a lesbian when i look at that avatar myself..LOL!

thank you.

---> (click the number sentence above the black box) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=684466748446240313&q=cabaret&ei=shctSL2zIIr2rQLU9ciNCg&hl=en

addluk
05-16-08, 01:36 AM
OMG~!

I think I need a drink.

Off to the pub!!!

(...mary, mary, quite con tracy...)

SuzzanneX
05-16-08, 01:46 AM
she was hawt!
.....now she looks like jabba in star wars.

LOL! ....why do we wanna live again?

scottm
05-16-08, 08:52 AM
I was told I listened to depressing music (NIN, Manson etc...) so I switched to ABBA and now I'm even more messed up.

One thing I truly hate is when someone tells me "hey buck up chuck" or something like "someone else on the other side of the world has it worse" and I go away thinking, now if that person's life somehow affected mine then I could understand that statement. With someone on the other side of the world in misery, how is that supposed to help me?

I've had a couple suicide attempts - obviously they failed since I'm here.

People tell me "look at all you have to live for" and my response is "so I can pay my taxes?"

I don't feel I want to die right now. A month ago I would have willingly parked my **** in front of a train. My physical conditions hasn't improved much so I've come to the conclusion that I'm just meant to suffer. I'm called a Martyr but I think it's just better to try and suck it down rather than pull someone else down with me.

Hence my question: is it better to suffer alone or drag someone else into my problems?

I mean....do people really care when they ask "what's wrong with you?" or are they just making "small talk" at my expense so they can walk away feeling like they've accomplished something?

bleah.

I've refused to take any anti-depressants because they seem to make things worse for me. Everyone seems to want to give me a pill for everything else but neglects to solve the "real" issue(s).

-s

busyhermit
05-16-08, 10:57 AM
I don't generally involve other people in my real problems, because you're right - they don't really want to know, and they don't have any answers for you anyway. I have mentioned in passing to people who are closer to me - mom, husband, a friend - surface things, just to sort of explain any behavior that may seem odd. "I get overwhelmed easily" "Sorry, I forgot" "I'm uncomfortable around groups of people", "I just hate making phone calls", you know - stated on a simple level that they could perhaps comprehend (or at least accept as an explanation). But of the real pain, the self-abuse, the hopelessness, the darkness, the meaninglessness - these I do not talk about with those around me. Makes me feel like a bit of a fraud, I do so much "I'm OK" pretending - but I've tried sharing "the real me" before and it brings only confused looks and uncomfortable silences (and perhaps some of those really irritating statements that begin "you need to just....").

Best things that've happened to me of late is this forum and my new therapist. I have shared what's really inside - I've revealed many things that no one else on this earth knows about me. On the forum, I have found that there are many others like me - so I am not alone. In therapy, I am learning that my thoughts and feelings are distorted toward the negative - they are not giving me a true picture of reality as I have always believed. I am the opposite of one who sees the world through "rose-colored glasses", therefore my thoughts/perceptions are just as unrealistic. Reality is somewhere in the middle. Cognitive behavioral therapy has started to change my thinking.

My therapist has convinced me that it is possible for me to feel better, happier, more optimistic on a daily basis (raise the base-line, per se), and I have allowed myself to be hopeful about that - fragile though that hope may be. After a bad day, I'm liable to feel "what's the use, I'll never change", but I keep going back and trying. Fact is I am often blind to very real progress that I have made, because my perceptions continue to be distorted. So my therapist has made a point to remind me of my own progress, and not allow me to descend into hopelessness again. So much is about perspective. So much is about faulty and biased thinking - but here lies hope! Perspective and thinking can be changed! Do not believe the lie that I've told myself for years and years "This is what I am and always will be, to try and change is pointless."

I take medication, too - although its helpfulness for me is debatable. Klonopin has been wonderful for my anxiety, but I don't seem to get much out of antidepressants. Everyone's different in that area.

To respond to your original question, there have been rare moments in my life when I just felt a joy and happiness just to be alive - felt a sense of well being - and when you feel like that, you just WANT to live. This is what I am seeking now. I want that feeling back and I really believe that it's possible if I keep doing what I'm doing.

scottm
05-16-08, 12:02 PM
I do this all the time too....people ask "howya doin'?" I almost always say "ok". People who know me just stopped asking because they know if I'm really "OK" I'll say so.

The other thing is that if one goes so long saying the typical party line "I'm ok" and suddenly you sit them down and really give them the low down they look at you as if you just grew a third eye.

Now, this could be a natural response. Like, you expect your car to be in the same shape you left it and then all of a sudden you go to your car before going out and the wheels popped off, doors & windows broken and you car says "this is how I really feel".

I can't expect anyone else to really grasp how I feel. I let them go on their merry way thinking all is right in the universe.

On the flip side, when one does sit another down to talk to them they suddenly turn into Dr. Phil and quote all these lovely things you should try (as if you haven't thought of that before). Then the other thing that can happen is they happen to think your weird and leave you because they think you have too much baggage.

When I say "you" I mean that figuratively...not YOU directly :)

-s

~boots~
05-16-08, 12:21 PM
heya Scott :)
hugs
xxxxx

ADDAWAY
05-16-08, 01:45 PM
I do this all the time too....people ask "howya doin'?" I almost always say "ok".

I can't expect anyone else to really grasp how I feel. I let them go on their merry way thinking all is right in the universe.

On the flip side, when one does sit another down to talk to them they suddenly turn into Dr. Phil and quote all these lovely things you should try (as if you haven't thought of that before). Then the other thing that can happen is they happen to think your weird and leave you because they think you have too much baggage.

When I say "you" I mean that figuratively...not YOU directly :)

-s

Right on scottm! Also, sometimes people say nothing at all or "uhuh!"

We must accept the fact that our ADHD brain works differently and that the world plays by Non-ADDer/NT rules (thanks Sandy). Not even we understand ourselves as proven by the many threads on ADDF. How can we then expect Non-ADDers to understand us? Because we have no "credibility" when playing by their rules, how can we expect that they won't stigmatize us?

To me, the best thing to do when you feel this way is to be with other inspiring, helpful and supportive ADDers. We need to go back to our tribe. Looking out for each other helps both ADDers not only in the "sociobiological" sense but also in the sense that it enriches and nourishes both of their souls. Viewed this way, it certainly isn't "sucking others into our misery."

In the foxhole, we need each other to watch out for the "enemy" whether it be negative thoughts, situations or people. Foxhole buddies don't tend to share their fears with those outside the foxhole (spouse, family, friends, etc.). Foxhole buddies share their fears with, and protect each other.

Thanks for the thread, scottm ...
Saving Private "ADHD" Ryan. :cool:

QueensU_girl
05-16-08, 01:51 PM
Man, when I heard you talk like this (feeling overwhelmed; self-harm; suffering), I want to kidnap you to come see some good treatment people as an outpatient, here in Toronto.

The city you are in is crap for mental health (#1 reason why Dr. X hates that City so much!!) and the good clinicians [everywhere] don't take OHIP.

LOL. Maybe we need to look for an Anxiety Anonymous or Depression Anonymous or something... a '12 step' for people to sit around and yak. The fact that such meetings are 'one hour' means they are time limited, but still there to look forward to each week, when a person needs them.

Scott: ever go to an AA or NA meeting (as an guest/observer?)

Anyone can go to the "O" (Open) meetings.

I was just at an AA meeting last week and a lot of these themes come up. People going thru the exact same stuff.

I really recommend it.

The 'not sharing' is deadly b/c it is isolating.

My opinion is to share: but to share ONLY with people who do NOT look at you like you have the THIRD EYE ON YOUR FACE, as you say. (We have to choose our audiences *carefully*.)

When overwhelmed people are in the midst of recovery, they can "leak" to the wrong people, or talk too much [b/c the ADD/anxiety hyperness/impulsivity can make this worse], and this can cause problems.

I have people who were v. close childhood friends, who think I am weird from disclosing too much [about bad things that happened to me as a child in my family], and won't talk to me now.

I used to agonize over this rejection: but now I just feel sad for their emotional blindness and their loss of me as a nice and caring friend. Anyone who treats a person badly or ostracises them for ESSENTIALLY disclosing being 'a victim of a crime' needs their blanking head kicked in. ;)

Low empathy people flip me out. IN a bad, scary kind of way.

--

http://www.aa.org/

ADDAWAY
05-16-08, 03:41 PM
Scottm:

The organization that QueensU touches on is Emotions Anonymous: http://www.emotionsanonymous.org/

You can find a 12 step program, meeting information and other useful material there.

Also, there may be work-related associations or professional groups that have similar programs.

Thanks for the reminder QueensU!

texasmissb
05-16-08, 04:46 PM
This is really a great thread.
I believe that people really do care or at least many do. Especially when some one describes feelings they have had or have that they cant put their finger on. The post on here have been very insightful to me and I hope they are helping you too Scott. I know when I am in that state of mind its so hard to get your head above water and have optimism and hope.

The suggestions people make do sound like maybe they are saying just what they have heard you should say, but those suggestions are the tried and true, and there are many, so just hang in there and keep trying.

Mincan
05-17-08, 12:34 PM
I like this thread, and I want people to understand me... I feel like a sack of ****.

Iluvpoptarts
05-17-08, 06:06 PM
I think for many of us its not wanting to live, but not wanting to die.
Also.. Guilt of how our family and close people would feel and how it would affect them.
One persons happiness does not rely on another persons suffering, thats a myth thats believed across the globe.. watch the secret, it talks about this.

dyingInside
05-17-08, 10:31 PM
One thing I truly hate is when someone tells me "hey buck up chuck" or something like "someone else on the other side of the world has it worse" and I go away thinking, now if that person's life somehow affected mine then I could understand that statement. With someone on the other side of the world in misery, how is that supposed to help me?

Well, that stuff tends to help me a little. Different strokes for different folks. Cultural conditioning, I guess. Maybe it's the (ex)-Irish Catholic guilt thing, or the anthropology studies, I dunno.

I've refused to take any anti-depressants because they seem to make things worse for me. Everyone seems to want to give me a pill for everything else but neglects to solve the "real" issue(s).
-s

Bad move. If you're a true depressive, only meds will likely treat the real issue. Unless you opt for electroshock/DBS/surgery (probably not so good). I've told myself this (not taking pills) for years, until I've just about lost everything good in my life. Now I'm finally listening to the doctor.

**** BTW in case anyone wants to know. My previous post was based on real experience and not some crappy self help advice. Just FYI.****

my higher power is gravity, and she doesn't give a **** about me

ADDAWAY
05-18-08, 02:51 AM
Try the space station then ... your HP has virtually no P around there!

qhcowgirl
05-18-08, 03:28 AM
Why do we want to live?

Because what else is there besides life? Sometimes when trapped in the mundane drudgery of day to day living, I wonder the same thing. And then, I see the hills and mountains against the sky -- that shade of purple that can't be recreated. Or I'm driving and the sun comes out and hits the trees and fields at such an angle that everything glows. Or the sky is on fire with pinks and oranges and the clouds are gilded with gold and silver. It's in the wonder of a small wild flower. Or a horse running...

The question then becomes, for a moment, what's not to live for?

ADDAWAY
05-18-08, 03:34 AM
Why do we want to live?

Because what else is there besides life? Sometimes when trapped in the mundane drudgery of day to day living, I wonder the same thing. And then, I see the hills and mountains against the sky -- that shade of purple that can't be recreated. Or I'm driving and the sun comes out and hits the trees and fields at such an angle that everything glows. Or the sky is on fire with pinks and oranges and the clouds are gilded with gold and silver. It's in the wonder of a small wild flower. Or a horse running...

The question then becomes, for a moment, what's not to live for?

:) Thanks, a kindred spirit http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=592243#post592243 :)

qhcowgirl
05-18-08, 03:45 AM
:) Thanks, a kindred spirit http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=592243#post592243 :)
Awesome post! That's it exactly!

ADDAWAY
05-18-08, 03:49 AM
You captured the colors way better ... I filled in the other senses ... maybe others will take it higher ...

qhcowgirl
05-18-08, 04:05 AM
Haha, don't get me started on descriptions. I once wrote an entire paper on one of my paintings... And then there was the time I got a ticket because of a sunset -- no joke.

So yeah, whole nother story, but there's a whole lot to live for. Just make sure not to get too engrossed in the beauty around you or you might get a speeding ticket.

ADDAWAY
05-18-08, 04:11 AM
or some random paint on your paper ... would that be a Pollock?

poisoniv61
05-19-08, 08:47 PM
I'm glad you want to but I don't

Prusilusken
05-19-08, 11:17 PM
Why do we live?
Difficult question...does it matter?

Suffer alone or suck people in?
Again, difficult question with several right or at least meaningful answers.

This time, you chose not to suffer alone.

You sucked us in.

Thank you for that.

You just allowed me not to feel so alone.

Your existence mattered to me today.
I have no idea if that matters at all to you in the state your in,
but at least now you know.

scottm
05-20-08, 08:37 AM
It would seem that this post has grown since I last left it. Unless I'm mistaken, some people have been able to walk away perhaps feeling a little better. That's a good thing.

I suppose the reason that I won't take anti-depressants is not only because they scare the pewp out of me, I don't really think they're the solution for me.

Because of physical ailments, doctors tell me I will never be the same. B12, pain pills, Remicade will only ease it a bit but I am told I can't push it. Physically, I feel like I'm 100 or so years old. Mentally, I feel like I'm 21 again. I don't think anti-depressants will fix that (for me anyways).

This sucks.

I used to be very active. I get real stir-crazy just sitting there doing nothing, I've gotta move. I've always got to be doing something. I have an internal motor that's forcing me into this mode but in trying to oblige it I get rewarded with exhaustion, fatigue and pain....

..then the doctor so brilliantly says.." we need to do something about your mood, you know?". Well,, gollllllly (gomer pile voice).

As I tried to explain to by head doctor - I'm depressed. Yes but I can put a finger on why I am depressed and upset. By that admission alone, does that not make me NOT clinically depressed?

Anyways, with my family watching over me I've got to keep pushing onwards like everything is o.k. It's not that I can't talk to them but since I haven't really talked with them for so long, to tell them how I really am feeling, I know it'll come as a shock and they'll put their Dr. Phil hat on and it would just not work.

So I admittedly, avoid it all together because of the futile results it would bring.

As someone else said it (and it was a good statement) - I'll paraphrase: We don't want to die but we just don't want to live this way.

It's like we're in some physical & mental limbo.


Currently listening to : Calling All Angels (Train)

-s

~boots~
05-20-08, 08:41 AM
It would seem that this post has grown since I last left it. Unless I'm mistaken, some people have been able to walk away perhaps feeling a little better. That's a good thing.

I suppose the reason that I won't take anti-depressants is not only because they scare the pewp out of me, I don't really think they're the solution for me.

Because of physical ailments, doctors tell me I will never be the same. B12, pain pills, Remicade will only ease it a bit but I am told I can't push it. Physically, I feel like I'm 100 or so years old. Mentally, I feel like I'm 21 again. I don't think anti-depressants will fix that (for me anyways).

This sucks.

I used to be very active. I get real stir-crazy just sitting there doing nothing, I've gotta move. I've always got to be doing something. I have an internal motor that's forcing me into this mode but in trying to oblige it I get rewarded with exhaustion, fatigue and pain....

..then the doctor so brilliantly says.." we need to do something about your mood, you know?". Well,, gollllllly (gomer pile voice).

As I tried to explain to by head doctor - I'm depressed. Yes but I can put a finger on why I am depressed and upset. By that admission alone, does that not make me NOT clinically depressed?

Anyways, with my family watching over me I've got to keep pushing onwards like everything is o.k. It's not that I can't talk to them but since I haven't really talked with them for so long, to tell them how I really am feeling, I know it'll come as a shock and they'll put their Dr. Phil hat on and it would just not work.

So I admittedly, avoid it all together because of the futile results it would bring.

As someone else said it (and it was a good statement) - I'll paraphrase: We don't want to die but we just don't want to live this way.

It's like we're in some physical & mental limbo.


Currently listening to : Calling All Angels (Train)

-s
crikey Scott...I am terrible at replying to these posts in the manner they deserve! Now, you know that doesn't mean I don't hear you :p I just start to ramble and that'll never help..

so..instead, I'll offer an ear, and lots of hugs
xxxxxx and no fabulous advice:o

PS.I know EXACTLY what you mean about your family:eek:

and, is it such a bad thing to feel 21 mentally???:D:D

dyingInside
05-28-08, 07:04 PM
I'm glad you want to but I don't

Please don't say things like that. Surely you can find something to hang onto in this life. If you need a friend, I volunteer (even though I know I'm not the most cheerful person myself).

Glimpse Inside
06-04-08, 09:05 PM
I think people want to live as long as they see a purpose in life. Once that purpose is gone, they become self destructive and depressed. And I don't think it applies only to humans.

scottm
06-05-08, 08:04 AM
But it's hard to say what one's 'purpose' is in life. I believe, we're all meant to suffer - then we know the value of the one day in a year where you "feel good". Then, as quickly as that feeling of "wholesome goodness" comes, it goes. Then life returns to whatever is normal for me.

dyingInside
06-05-08, 08:31 AM
Glimpse and Scott-
If you haven't already, you should check out the writings of Viktor Frankl, psychotherapist and holocaust survivor. Especially "From Death Camp to Existentialism" later rewritten and retitled as "Man's Search For Meaning". He talks about people who just gave up and died versus those who persevered in the Nazi death camps. Frankl says that suffering gives meaning to our lives. Besides all that, it's a great story (but not a happy one). Frankl carries on, holding out hope that he might see his wife and family again (it turns out they were killed at another camp). He also struggles to keep secret notes for the book he's going to write (Nazis took his original notes, or he lost them, can't remember). The hope kept him going though.

As far as one's purpose in life, I'm inclined to believe that we choose our purpose- it isn't assigned to us. That's kind of Nietzschean I suppose. We adapt to circumstances, but we need to find something, like a mission, that we can stick with. I think the people with the most satisfaction are probably the ones choosing either to help others (humanitarians), or to pursue some cosmic mystery (scientists). Anyway that's my existential ramble for the day. Back to slurping coffee.

Glimpse Inside
06-05-08, 04:16 PM
I will try to find and read this book - "Man's Search For Meaning". The title tells a lot, and it explores the subject I have been interested for quite a while, and thanks for recommending it dyingInside.

"As far as one's purpose in life, I'm inclined to believe that we choose our purpose- it isn't assigned to us."

Well, by purpose I meant more in the direction of emotional purpose, like not causing somebody you care to suffer. The best example I could come up with is probably parent-child relationship. The child is extremelly dependent on the parent, and the parent (provided emotional bond is there) doesn't want the child to suffer, so he/she would be very unlikely to consider quitting life. In a sense, the purpose of the parents life is to raise the child, and thats probably the most fundamental purpose or instinct of all living beings on this planet. The same thing applies to any relationships you might have. When the relationship is shaken, for example somebody you care about dies, or your illusions and hopes about some relationship are totally smashed - then you kind of loose this emotional purpose, and life appears not worth living. Thats why people generally enter grieving state and sad state after such events. Some people accept the loss/or change, and come back to life; but some people don't, because they don't have hope on finding a new emotional purpose, or (probably more often) they don't have any desire to find a new emotional purpose, because the lost one was by far the most important one, and nothing can replace it. Then the purpose of life becomes kind of meaningless. Imagine being the last person to survive after some kind of disaster, like a huge asteoroid clashing with the Earth. Imagine also that you are 100% certain you are the last one, but you could live you regular lifespan, because food and everything you need for comfortable life is plentiful. Would you really wish to live? Life would be kind of meaningless, since whatever you do, whatever you achieve - there would be nobody to appreciate it, nobody that you could take care of. Like a life without a purpose.

Bluerose
06-06-08, 07:38 PM
Why do I want to live?

Oh good another opportunity to unload.

I don’t want to live but something inside me does. I think that’s why I’m still here. I survived an abusive childhood, and the suicidal teenage years, I struggled through a marriage full of marital and parental responsibility and the worry of soldier hubby getting shot or blown up. He managed both.. and survived! I managed to bring up three kids… and they’re still alive! I’m now working at bringing up one of my grandchildren.. so far so good. I’m still alive because I owe it to that small part of me that got me this far.

zoomman
06-06-08, 07:49 PM
Why do I want to live?

Why, to find out what happens next, of course!

It's all too amazing to look away for even a second sometimes.

QueensU_girl
06-06-08, 08:20 PM
re: #42

LOL OMG