When i see someonew who holds themselves accountable for their actions.. Ask for forgiveness.. I try and do it.. Untill that person shows their true face.. And then I start to wonder if that person is truly sorry or not..

Makes ya wonder dont it?

It sure does,....specially when it happens over and over again,...and yet i cant help but hope that one day that person will truly see the light before it is too late.

Or get knocked upside the head with a wet noodle LOL :P

I know what you mean I am the only preson at work that will say it was my fault or I was wrong everyone else just keeps quiet. But I must say that my boss never questions me either because he knows I'll tell him if I messed up. (and my wife loves it to :D)

I think forgiveness is more about the forgiver than the person being forgiven. Forgving doesn't mean accpepting or condoning a person's behavior. Nor does it mean forgetting about what a person has done.

Bingo, Tara. "forgive and forget" can be dangerous. because I forgive someone doesn't mean i have to set myself up for further hurt. if i forgive someone for hurting me, and return again and again to that person expecting different result, im just hurting myself.

well said ruth!!! however after forgiving someone 10-12 times i have a tough time ever having the compassion to do it again.

Good topic! Forgiveness can work two ways. I am someone who says they are sorry to much. My wife rarely ever says she is sorry. I forgive my wife because I beleive she is sorry on some level. Yet I can imaginine as my behavior is repeated it would be hard to forgive me. Also forgivenes can be related to us alone. Forgiving yourself is something that needs to happen for us to beleive in ourself. It is also up to me as individual if I am saying I am sorry all the time to look at why that is happening and what can I do to make it not happen so often. Hope this makes sense

ty. I have a hard time forgiving people when they say they are sorry and ask me to forgive them.. then not more the 2 second later they do it again.. And Ues Biking yhat makes perfect sense

amy,
I do not think I say i am sorry that often :D I know your are not refering to me. If you do not mind what is the person doing that is always apologizing? I say I am sorry more than I should, but unless it is something major I do not ask for forgiveness. Maybe that is part of my problem. I assume that eventually I am forgiven because I can forgive if someone says they are sorry. I will say that both parties could also be responsible for a person alwayssaying there sorry.

I think people say "I'm sorry" way too much and don't mean it. Some don't even know what "I'm sorry" really mean since they have been forced to say it since childhood.

I think it's wrong to force anybody especially children to say "I'm sorry". When I worked in preschool I learned that instead of just having the children say "I'm sorry" we had them ask the other child if he or she was ok. Then say something like I know my words made you sad and next time I will say a nice word. This worked a lot better than just having them become robots who automatically say I'm sorry with out knowing what it means.

Then when I worked with middle school students I used to challenge the kids when they said they were sorry. I would ask them if they really were sorry or if they were just saying it because somebody forced them too. Many of the admitted they were just saying because they were forced too. So I would let them know why I (or whoever else) was hurt, upset, etc and asked them what they could do differently next time.

Very good post Tara. I agree I say sorry sometimes without meaning it. I know try to include what I am sorry for and how I will avoid doing the same thing in the future.

So the guestion is, how can someone apologize and abide to their apology?

Ijust have a small inkling on the tip of my mind that I am one target of this entire thread, but thats okay with me. I am reading the replies and taking the information for what it is. I may apologize too many times for my out-of-control behavior, calm down for a while, then start back up again.

So yes, a pattern has been identified.

Surely there can be a solution to this pattern, other than name calling and arguments. Not that anyone is arguing.

How can I honestly say i'm sorry?

Another thing that just came to mind. I may not fully express this, but I am sorry myself later on for doing something wrong. If I say something bad to someone, it may not affect me till later on, but if I say i'm sorry, I don't see whats the use anymore. Yea know?

Zach,
I think if you know later you did something wrong that apologizing is a good thing to do. I would make sure you really did something that needs apologzing for. I a lot of times assume that I did something wrong because of a perceived snub by someone I know and have found out that I had not done anything wrong. I am finding out and beleive I am not great at it, but talking about what the person you hurt is upset about and finding out what I could do differently go a long ways beyond arguing. If you have read my other posts in relationships this is a big problem area for me.

I've been told I overapologize as well... even at work, my assistant manager took me aside after observing my "sales technique" and said "You apologize too much." hehehe...

Could also be because I am Canadian. :D

Dunno if I have anything else intelligent to add. Sorry! :D :D :D

My thing is I have heard Sorry so many times.. from some of my friends.. that whenever they say sorry.. I am like yeah whatever. actually it's very hard for me to forgive people when they constantly apologizee and then do something else and say sorry again...

There are different kinds of apologies, and there are lots of words do express the differences between "It was my fault and so I'm asking for forgiveness" and "I think it's a darned shame that X happened to you." May I offer some examples?

"'Scuse me." "Sorry!" (e.g. bumping into somebody by mistake)
"Didn't mean to do that." (e.g. a small error like picking a penny from your purse when you meant to choose a dime)
"My fault." (e.g. when a small accident has happened, like spilling something, and you just feel like taking the blame)
"My mistake." (e.g. when you mistake one person for another and use the wrong name)

I think that if you regret an act or something you say, it can be a good idea if you own what you are sorry for, and then somehow say you're going to try to do better (e.g.) "I realize I hogged the remote tonight, and surfed around the channels, and I know you hate that. I'm going to try not to do that."

I also think people should use some other word than "sorry" if the the unfortunate thing is out of their control, like, "I'm really sorry you had 2 feet of snow in Minneapolis last week," or "I'm sorry your ferret died." Unless, of course, you had a hand in it!

Boy my last post just way off maybe I need to go back and re-read the first one lol

LOL wlfbear :D

Zach this post is not about you.. it's about people in general..

Yep...don't feel like such a target. Its the topic, silly.

LOL Andrew where did you get that?

Its all part of the Admin's tools. I have my special coned hat, my tool belt with faux butt crack and my bag of smilies :D

Wonders if there is a connection between being sorry and always saying sorry when its not your fault ( i do this ) and being played for a fool. As some of you know happened to me today. Duh,.......sorry sis,..you told me to read this,...now im off and fuming again. LOL.

I said read.. not get angry sis LOL

I think there IS a connection with always saying sorry and low self-esteem.

Sorry...I forgot a cute little smilie...

LOL Andrew i need that laugh ;)

It is one thing to keep saying your sorry but if you keep doing the same thing the only thing you are sorry about it that you have been caught and not your actions...Forgive them once and the next time 4 Get IT!

well said mel ;)

very well said Melly dear

ok can't be out done by amy :p
very, very wel said melly baby :D

LOL LOL LOL Be nice

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww :(
i never get to have any fun :p

Very, Very, Very, Very, Very Much thank you....hugssssss

We no longer allow our children to say sorry for repeat offensives they must now PROVE they are sorry and YES that goes for mom and dad too.

that's an interesting concept Fut's..

Hell...that would limit my daily conversations with my wife to "Good morning" and "Good night"

:D

ROTFLMBO, That is too Funny, BIG.

Futs, How do they prove they are sorry other than not repeating offence...yousa have my attention now:D as always anyway, I agree with Amy thata interesting concept.

heh Big.. sometimes thats all I say to my husband.. :bowl: But anyways.. Do any of you think that mayeb it's hards for me to forgive cause of my ADD? I was thinking about this during dinner with the hubby

Amy:yin-yang:

i dunno amy....i'm one of the most forgiving people you'll find and i'm ADD...... but my daughter, on the other hand is NOT. she is not ADD, but can tell you who committed a transgression against her last thursday at 2:09pm

Teach your children to say...I appoligize in place of i'm sorry....
say both things out loud..."i'm sorry" & " i Appoligize".....the later doesn't internalize as a hidden message that says---->I'm bad.

OK let's see if I can explain this.:uhh: UMMM UMMMM UMMMMM

My children are EXPLOSIVE :sad: when they get mad. Often hitting out or saying hurtful thing's without first thinking them thru. While we do accept "I apologize". "I'M SORRY" sadly has no meaning to them. My son will hit his sister :nono: and tell her SORRY over and over again it did not take us long to realize that SORRY no longer held any meaning to either child.

So, we implemented another program that will hopefully work so far it has cut down on the EXPLOSIVENESS of their behaviour's.

1. Doing the other's chores
2. Extra chores
3. Writing apology letter's--we are NOT talking "I'm sorry" now let's get over it. I'm talking a front and back page of why they not only appreciate that person but also what that person has done to make an impact on their life.
4. Publicly declaring a wrong doing and then stating "I was wrong to do that to you" etc.
5. Disobeying house rules result's in the loss of allowance. They are handed a ticket and must pay the fee to "Mommy and Daddies day out without kids jar". The purpose for this is if they cannot follow house rules they obviously will not be able to follow societies rules.
6. Disobeying school rules result's in the loss of allowance. They must donate to a charity of the teacher's choice.

I hope these example's better explain's my stand and why we no long allow SORRY. Will it work? Honestly I have no clue I will let you know 20 years down the road.;)

I also feel I should add that a kid's job is to push the limit's and see how far they can go.:rolleyes:

We also have a reward system. They recieve a Good Behaviour Day Award meaning that when asked to stop a behaviour they did so or show honest effort they are given a certificate at the end of the day. After they recieve 30 they are rewarded by picking a movie and the place to eat before the movie.:D

Jesus said "seventy times seven"......but I still think I ahve the right to get out of the way so I don't get hurt again.

He wants you too ruth....
Remember... forgiveness is for you and him, as you are the body of christ.

Originally posted by MrsBulldog720
Teach your children to say...I appoligize in place of i'm sorry....
say both things out loud..."i'm sorry" & " i Appoligize".....the later doesn't internalize as a hidden message that says---->I'm bad.

But, "I appoligize" will take on the same role as "I'm sorry". I think it's more important to actually process the actions and feeling associated with what we are supposed to be sorry for.

but what if that does not apply to me? :D :frog:





Originally posted by MrsBulldog720
He wants you too ruth....
Remember... forgiveness is for you and him, as you are the body of christ.

What about people who don't ask for forigivness?

There are many people that I have allowed myself to forgive over the years who never actually asked for forgiveness or said I'm sorry. I haven't forgotten what these people did but forgiving them has helped me not them.

Tara I agree forgiveness is one thing, forgetting another.

Sorry is something you feel, forgiveness is something you give and forgetting is something you do.

If my actions hurt you, you want me to be sorry so that I can 1/ make you feel I am sharing the pain and 2/ I will learn not to do it again.

If you forgive me, then you have given me a gift in choosing not to look on me in a lesser way when you were given a choice and you chose the more difficult choice. The important thing here is that forgiveness is a choice.

Forgeting that I caused pain is not necessary as most people are just unable to do it. If someone is truely sorry and forgiveness is given freely, there is no need to forget. If someone isn't truely sorry, or isn't truely forgiven they will remember the incident.

As for me, I look at the reason why the action or event happened. If the action was done by accident, or done by choice with no concept of the impact, then I will always forgive. If the action is unavaidable I will also tend to forgive.

If someone causes me grief, who knew the impact of their actions, and chose to do it anyway, I am not likely to forget, but even then I am likely to forgive.

Every deliberate action by a person, that causes pain or grief to another person, is a reflection of a some sort of flaw, somewhere in their charachter.

If we are to ask others to be accepting of some of the things we ADDers do, then maybe it is not too much for us to look at the floors in others and offer them forgiveness as well.

The more I give in forgiveness, the more I receive in kindness.

sleepz.

FYI:
Dr Hallowell who co-wrote the book Driven to Distraction (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684801280/ref%3Dnosim/addforums-20) has a new book coming out this soon called Dare to Forgive (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0757300103/ref%3Dnosim/addforums-20) .

7 years ago I met a special friend I connected with. We were inseparateable and she was a true friend. I was becoming aware of what ADHD was and had a hard time accepting it. She shared a lot of great experiences that had happened to her life and trying to reach out to me. The only problem was that I was in denial of ADHD and questioned it. This special woman was very outgoing and strong willed and things would never bother her. She taught me lifeskills and gave the food and clothes off her back to help me. At that time I thought she was controlling my life and never thought she was really trying to help me. One day I pushed her away and called her names to her face that hurt her. A year later I tried to apologize and I was trying tell her how I felt and what I was going through. She pushed me away and said " you are not a friend" and stay out of my life. Today I finally called her but left a message on her voice mail, and admitted I was mean, immature on my part and regretted what I did to her. I told her that she has made a significant role in my life when I was in denial of ADHD and an inspiration to me for the future. I told her I was finally diagnosed with ADHD and now on medication. I also left her the choice if she wants to be my friend
again or not. I wanted to leave the door open, just in case her feelings have changed or not. If she considers not have me as a friend, I will understand and move on. To me she has given a insight of what I am now and that means alot to me.

Galexica

Hi,
If you are familiar with 12 Step programs, then you know that making amends is a big part of that ( Steps 8 & 9). The amends are made with no thought as to whether they will be accepted or not. Thought is given tho to whether the amends would cause unnecessary pain and hurt to others.

All of this is monitored by doing a daily 10th Step (written searching and fearless daily inventory ). I keep a journal at home and work, as well as a Xanga site under mctavish23 : Tenth Step Talk. It appears very boring on the surface but it is essential to my ongoing recovery. BTW, I'll have 16yrs clean & sober this Thurs (3/25/04).

Take care
mctavish23 (Robert)

When i say im sorry i am only sorry if i hurt someone, and i am sincire. But what i say i mean, somethimes my appologies are more like clarifications. I accually shouldent be sorry for some things i have appolgized for like being a published writer...i worked hard for years to become one but people usually miss the end of my posts where i always mention that everyone of us is gifted and special. If you dont work to be who you want to be then getting angry over a post about someones succes is called regret and low self asteme. So i mean what i post but appologize if i hurt someons feelings because that is never my intention.
I truly wish nothing but the best for you all and I would never bash your ideas like some do mine, no more appologies because if you disagree with me figure out why and express it.

What is that phrase "That which does not kill you makes you stronger?"

There is a balance in the universe that must be maintained. In order for a person to be challenged and grow...there MUST be people who baffle and confuses us to no end so that we have that challenge!


Some days...I'm both people alone in the room....... :faint: :rolleyes: :cool: :p

FYI:
Dr Hallowell who co-wrote the book Driven to Distraction (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684801280/ref%3Dnosim/addforums-20) has a new book coming out this soon called Dare to Forgive (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0757300103/ref%3Dnosim/addforums-20) .

I remember getting this book and reading most of it, pretty interesting

To hold a grudge and not forgive, are we really doing ourselves a justice carrying around all that bitter resentment ....easier said than done to just let somethings go.......*my ex for example the hell he put me through..it's hard to forgive ......Maybe can someday forgive the man but never the act.

It a hard toss up there when it comes to being hurt....forgiveness is not something u can say "Ok I forgive you" and poof you can easily let it go cause in your heart you always going to feel the scars

In the severely emotionally disturbed setting of the middle school where I work, there is a sign prominently displayed for the students. When one should apologize. How one should apologize. I'm adding this to my list of things I need to do on Monday...when I get them, I will post them here. They work very well with the students. Validating how their behavior/choices have affected another person, expressing remorse if they acted on impulse, etc are addressed in specific steps. It wasn't about placing blame, or labeling anyone as bad. It reinforced the need for ownership of choices.

Well, before I get any further in this, I'm going to stop. I'll post the exact verbiage in a few days. It made a great deal of sense to me. :)

McTavish, I think the amends that people in 12th step programs make (in my experience) are amazing. I pay no attention when someone says casually "sorry about that" -- when I think it's serious and they don't. But an AA person picks a quiet time, asks if they can talk to you, tells you how they think they hurt or confused you and asks how they can make amends. It's so freeing for both of you. Often when someone apologizes, you just know they don't know why you're hurt, they really just want you off their backs, to move on. "Amends" mean that someone has really thought out how they hurt you and are making a sincere attempt to patch it up. And I think implicit in that is that they'll try not to do it again.

amy:

Unfortunately, some people will say anything to get what they want. Forgiveness is something that is given graciously, but is also often taken for granted too often.

Having forgiven much and seldom been rewarded with good things, my tendency is to not forgive after having my good nature taken advantage of once. I am sorry to say that I rarely give second chances... it all depends.. I think you should trust your instincts on these things.

Me :D




When i see someonew who holds themselves accountable for their actions.. Ask for forgiveness.. I try and do it.. Untill that person shows their true face.. And then I start to wonder if that person is truly sorry or not..

Makes ya wonder dont it?

This is an email to my Best Friend. She is my wife (so far). She has lived with me for 22 years. She has raised 2 children with me. She has overfunctioned for all of us as I have underfunctioned all of the 42 years I have lived.

I learned about my ADHD Combined type 2 and a half months ago. I am learning about who I "REALLY" have been to the people around me every day since. She may not be able to forgive me. She may but find that there is no longer love left in her heart. I truely do not know what makes her happy as I realize I really do not know so much about the reality that my bubble of cluelessness kept me unaware of.

I wrote:

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:53 PM
Subject: Do you know?

To my Best Friend,

Do you know...

..that I am LIVING "I am sorry" since saying those words is meaningless to you?

..that I think you are lonely?

..that I miss you and am lonely?

..being me has sucked for me too.

..ADD is neurological. It is based in your brain functioning, not your character? (Wendy Richardson, MA in "The Link Between A.D.D. and Addiction")

..that I can not BE more sorry for hurting you?

..that I find you more interesting as you grow into the woman you are letting yourself finally become?

..that I am making progress?

..I am improving for myself?

..that I will die loving you?

..that if I could wash your pain away with my own blood I would?

..I want you to know who I have always been inside?

..that you have been my best friend?

me