I had this strange experience while watching Indiana Jones IV. Halfway all of a sudden the movie skipped a few seconds. I was the only one experiencing this, so it was not a problem with the movie. This reminded me of epilepsy which is not always the stereotype of people losing consciousness and falling down. There are different types, one of which consists of petit mal seizures, ie 10 seconds of being absent. There are also types with complex partial seizures which last longer. I've heard it can cause ADD-like symptoms such as drowsiness and inattention.

Does anyone know more about this? I can't find much about the relation between ADD-Inattentive and epilepsy. I was tested for epilepsy when I was 9 (10 years ago) but they didn't find anything.

Yes, ADHD is more common among epileptics than it is in the general population. This is not to be confused with the effects of the poist-ictal state that occurs after some types of seizures....people with epilepsy appear to simply be more likely to have adhd. I don't think it is just the inattentive type, so look for the possibility of any of the three ADHD subtypes to occur along with epilepsy....

Me :D

Thanks, but I was talking about the possibility of having epilepsy INSTEAD of ADD Inattentive. Since the symptoms are a bit similair to it, not just the seizures but also the long-term effect of having seizures on your brain.

I've been tested for ADD Inattentive but I did not meet the criteria (came very close though). I'm going in for a more professional test and I was wondering if I should mention epilepsy also being a possibility (instead of ADD).

ADD is supposed to be present before age 6. (However, I tend to 'believe in' acquired ADD's existence.)

People with epilepsy have areas of brain damage in their brain's tissues. (The lesions are called foci. Foci means "site" of damage).

This is basically a form of _brain injury_. Symptoms and deficits can correspond to the SITE of the injured tissue.

Brain injuries (incl. epileptic focal lesions) are known to cause fatigue, insomnia, inattention, irritability, personality changes, mood issues, hyperactivity/lethargy, etc etc.

I am not clear on if/how much people with epilepsy can take stimulants. (Alcohol and some other chemicals can alter the "seizure threshold".)


N.B. There are many types of epilepsy. Perhaps today's technology is better at detecting your brain issues. An EEG might be worth asking for...

This sounds like the is a type of seizure called petit mal (old term) or absence seizure What one does is blank out for a time ranging from a few seconds to a several minutes. The individual has no sense of time passage nor awareness of the seizure. Sometimes one might feel that someone edited parts out of their life and simply spliced the next segment without any trace except for the sense perhaps of something missing logically. For things like work or school however, it can be devastating. It is often followed by a need for sleep and can be followed by a severe headache.

My youngest had this kind. We found it when he was straddling his bike in the driveway and did not respond to something his mother said. She saw him staring ahead and waved her hand in front of his eyes and saw that he was not responsive. We were able to take it from there.

I have not seen anything showing connection with this and ADHD but I tend to keep up with ADHD research and not seizure disorders.

Sometimes, when someone is discussing child having difficulty understand things at school I ask if they tend to stare much. I have helped more than one parent catch this and explain my experience with it. They get help and things often get much better. Gives me a great feeling of accomplishment.

Anyway, I might suggest having someone help you watch for this to see if it is recurring and if so, get it checked out with a neurologist.

Good luck to you either way...this is a treatable problem.

Dizfriz

Thanks for all the useful answers :)

What's the best way to discuss both ADD and epilepsy? A psychiatrist or a neurologist? Or does a psychiatrist not know enough about epilepsy and vice versa?

What's the best way to discuss both ADD and epilepsy? A psychiatrist or a neurologist? Or does a psychiatrist not know enough about epilepsy and vice versa?[/quote]

I am sorry for not checking back on this subject. I hope you are still checking it from time to time.

You are talking about strengths and weakness of individual providers. Some are good on both, some are good at one, and some are good at neither. It is going to take a good bit of looking and research to find the help you need. You might check out the CHADD and the help4adhd sites as a start.

If you need some more help, private message me and I will try to give you some ideas.

Good luck

Diz

It's kind of tough for me, since I'm in Belgium and the ADD-I community here is really tiny. Doesn't surprise me since both the psychologist (specialised in ADHD) and psychiatrist I've been to barely knew anything about it.

I have most ADD-I symptoms so I guess the most important question to ask is: does some form of epilepsy cause most ADD-I symptoms and are those symptoms present all the time (so not in short bursts throughout the day)?

There are not statistic for subtype of ADHD, but about 30 percent of people who have epilepsy also have ADHD (as compared to 6% for the general population). There is no breakdown by subtype so I don't know what percwnt is ADHD primarilly inattentive vs the other two subtypes.


I did a little search on epilepsy.com and I found this on my first try: http://www.epilepsy.com/pubmed/show/17947336

The above link is a research paper on ADHD and epilepsy. It covers the very question that you keep asking.

from pub med

The frequency, complications and aetiology of ADHD in new onset paediatric epilepsy.

Hermann B (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Hermann%20B%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Jones J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Jones%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Dabbs K (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Dabbs%20K%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Allen CA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Allen%20CA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Sheth R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Sheth%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Fine J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Fine%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), McMillan A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22McMillan%20A%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Seidenberg M (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Seidenberg%20M%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).

Matthews Neuropsychology Lab, Department of Neurology, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, Madison, WI 53792, USA. hermann@neurology.wisc.edu

Recent studies suggest that Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is a common comorbid condition in childhood epilepsy, but little is known regarding the nature, frequency and timing of associated neurobehavioural/cognitive complications or the underlying aetiology of ADHD in epilepsy. This investigation examined: (i) the prevalence of ADHD and its subtypes; (ii) the association of ADHD with abnormalities in academic, neuropsychological, behavioural and psychiatric status and (iii) the aetiology of ADHD in paediatric epilepsy. Seventy-five children (age 8-18) with new/recent onset idiopathic epilepsy and 62 healthy controls underwent structured interview (K-SADS) to identify the presence and type of DSM-IV defined ADHD, neuropsychological assessment, quantitative MR volumetrics, characterization of parent observed executive function, review of academic/educational progress and assessment of risk factors during gestation and delivery. The results indicate that ADHD is significantly more prevalent in new onset epilepsy than healthy controls (31% versus 6%), characterized predominantly by the inattentive variant, with onset antedating the diagnosis of epilepsy in the majority of children. ADHD in childhood epilepsy is associated with significantly increased rates of school based remedial services for academic underachievement, neuropsychological consequences with prominent differences in executive function, and parent-reported dysexecutive behaviours. ADHD in paediatric epilepsy is neither associated with demographic or clinical epilepsy characteristics nor potential risk factors during gestation and birth. Quantitative MRI demonstrates that ADHD in epilepsy is associated with significantly increased gray matter in distributed regions of the frontal lobe and significantly smaller brainstem volume. Overall, ADHD is a prevalent comorbidity of new onset idiopathic epilepsy associated with a diversity of salient educational, cognitive, behavioural and social complications that antedate epilepsy onset in a significant proportion of cases, and appear related to neurodevelopmental abnormalities in brain structure.

Damn, this is killing me. I now might have ADHD-I, epilepsy or even both. I've been tested by a psychologist and she said I'm healthy. This makes me quite nervous to get tested somewhere else since they might say the same. I was planning to go the teaching hospital in Ghent, the largest hospital in Belgium where doctors should be aware of the most recent findings, but I'm having doubts nonetheless. On top of that it's a pretty big investment (€500) and my parents no longer want to pay to find a diagnosis (they believe I'm healthy, that all failures in my life have been my own fault). And yet despite the big investment, I still don't know if they'll find anything. Without a diagnosis no treatment, no help, nothing will change. I couldn't handle college this year, so it would be a bad idea to try again. In my country you can't do anything without a college degree, except a regular job at an office, in a factory, supermarket,... everything I DON'T want. Damn, my whole future is at stakes...

Sorry for the rant, just had to get it out.

I had this strange experience while watching Indiana Jones IV. Halfway all of a sudden the movie skipped a few seconds. I was the only one experiencing this, so it was not a problem with the movie. This reminded me of epilepsy which is not always the stereotype of people losing consciousness and falling down. There are different types, one of which consists of petit mal seizures, ie 10 seconds of being absent. There are also types with complex partial seizures which last longer. I've heard it can cause ADD-like symptoms such as drowsiness and inattention.

Does anyone know more about this? I can't find much about the relation between ADD-Inattentive and epilepsy. I was tested for epilepsy when I was 9 (10 years ago) but they didn't find anything.

If it truly "skipped"- meaning you didn't just space out- that is really strange...

This subject is interesting to me because the whole reason I was diagnosed when I was younger was a science teacher noticed I daydream-y and as Dizfriz puts it, "staring too much", and suggested I be tested for the kind of epilepsy you mention. When that came back a negative, I went to a psychiatrist with a strong background in ADD who handed me my official papers and a bottle of Ritalin.

Stabby, do you have any money of your own you'd be able to use? That way your parents might see that you are very serious about wanting this help. Also, who tested you when you turned out negative?

I'm glad I found this topic.

My boyfriend had been having really severe headaches, sometimes lasting days so he eventually went to the GP about it. He also has a bad short-term memory and often "blanks out", and he won't know what's just happened. They said it sounded like epilepsy, he had an MRI scan and an ECG or something, both came back clear.
He also seems very ADHD/ADD...I really want him to find out if he is, but he'll never get round to it (that is how stressed and disorganised he gets).
He reckons now the headaches were stress-related. As for the "blanking out!, well he didn't really tell me much info, so I can't say whether it was just tuning out like ADDers do, or an actual partial seizure thing. But then again, if the tests were fine, it probably isn't epilepsy. They are going to leave it another month and see how things go.
Maybe once I get my DX it will encourage him to bring it up...though his GP is absolutely useless - get this, his sister is an absolute nightmare, I think she at least has ODD. They took her to this GP and they said there was nothing they could do - what the hell?! Luckily she is getting sorted out now, via her secondary school, the outcome will be interesting! So anyway, they can't change the GP cos the surgery has hardly any staff or something stupid. Grr. Unless I mention it when I go and ask if they could get him an appointment...but we'd probably both forget about it :o

I was reading a book yesterday (Adventures in fast forward), and it mentioned ADD tends to occur between close blood relatives, so I got to wondering if one of my parents had it. It also went on to mention a genetics researcher Dr Comings, who studied ADD, depression, alcoholism, et al, and thought there was a genetic link between these.

I think my father would have been the better candidate. Although really, there are very few ADD symptoms I could associate with my dad. I don't think the book mentioned epilepsy, but I got to thinking about my dad's epilepsy. No idea what kind. Unfortunately, I'm an only child, and both parents are deceased. I do remember that when I was at least 12 yrs old, maybe older, he had a habit of faking seizures (really dysfunctional family, won't go into THAT here). I don't think he did it often. One time, however, I was with him when no one else was around, and he had a seizure. I was crying and shaking and must've said I was going to call an ambulance, and he told me no. While having the seizure. I don't remember the details--I don't think it was like he stopped seizing and said no. He never took meds for it. He was given a discharge from the army after only 3 months, and after I was born he didn't have a steady job, supposedly epilepsy was the reason.

Anyway, around 3am this morning, I googled epilepsy and ADD (on my phone--laying in bed, didn't want to get up and fire up the laptop!) Back to the stuff above, my dad had epilepsy and was alcoholic, and most likely depression too, although that was brought to my attention by a therapist after he died. I think there's only one person still left that I could ask about my dad's epilepsy, and whether there might have been any ADD symptoms. I will try to get a hold of him, and ask him. In the meantime, because of memory concerns, my p-doc & PCP both want me to see a neurologist, I'll be mentioning my dad's epilepsy. Interesting.

There are not statistic for subtype of ADHD, but about 30 percent of people who have epilepsy also have ADHD (as compared to 6% for the general population). There is no breakdown by subtype so I don't know what percwnt is ADHD primarilly inattentive vs the other two subtypes.


I did a little search on epilepsy.com and I found this on my first try: http://www.epilepsy.com/pubmed/show/17947336

The above link is a research paper on ADHD and epilepsy. It covers the very question that you keep asking.

Speedo,
I found this to be quite interesting. Had never run across this before. However, I had been reading a book recently that dealt with research into certain types of epilepsy and the "behavorial dyscontrol syndrome". In the book it mentioned that those with epilepsy had a much higher comorbidity of a psychological disorder than those in the general population. And they also tended to have more serious psychological disorders.

No one in my family has been diagnosed with epilepsy but my husband and children have a personality disorder that bears striking similarities to the nature of epilepsy, and our doctor who treats their BPD (and their ADHD, as well as my ADHD), believes it to be a type of epilepsy. He's a general practitioner with a lot of experience and expertise in various psychological conditions, and, not surprisingly, he has had better treatment results than most psychiatrists who treat the same personality disorder. One of the medications that he uses is Tegretol, an anti-seizure medication.

Interestingly, there is also a high comorbidity between ADHD in adults and the BPD (borderline personality disorder). Anywhere from 25 to 50% of those with BPD have ADHD, and from the recent book on research of ADHD in adults (ADHD in Adults: What the Science Says by Russell Barkely and Kevin Murphy), they had found a high number of personality disorders in adults with ADHD (BPD was 25% and ASPD was even higher).

There is just so much more we have to learn about the brain and the origin of different psychological disorders.