View Full Version : What causes people to want to take on.....


sybil
08-22-08, 08:41 PM
the persona of being dumb, lazy or persist in feeling shameful or guilty, etc.? Don't you think that it is because they want people to feel sorry for them?

If not, why do you think some people try to play dumb, lazy, or persist in feeling shame or guilt about things?

Imnapl
08-22-08, 10:22 PM
People might take on a persona because they are insecure.

Symptoms of clinical depression might cause a person to appear to be dumb or lazy.

Feelings of guilt, shame, and self-blame are definitely symptoms of clinical depression.

meadd823
08-22-08, 10:35 PM
Maybe that is how they feel in real life but they can't act upon it - for what ever reason they feel they have to act confident, strong and motivated - many men feel they have to hide their feeling in front of loved ones . .. .due to social expectations

SuzzanneX
08-23-08, 03:04 AM
maybe their parents told them they were dumb, and lazy.
.....and they really do feel shame and guilt because they were programmed to feel that way.

maybe they were told they would never amount to anything.
..... maybe everything they did, or tried to do...... they got beaten down for it.

maybe the person they chose as their spouse, does the same thing their parents did,
because that's "normal" for them, to be humiliated, degraded, and mentally tortured.
......... and they don't know any other reality.

no, I don't think they want you to feel sorry for them.

....I think they NEED desperately for someone to say...

"you are a perfect, beautiful soul, worthy of love and respect."

.....but they don't know that's what they NEED.

they just know something is missing.

SuzzanneX
08-23-08, 03:26 AM
I have been accused of "playing crazy" on line before....
.....the person said I'm not really mega drug damaged, ADHD.....but a master of manipulation
that is smarter than I am revealing.

....only because I have alot of insight, and I'm very open to allowing all possibilities. as well as pointing them out.

people who have known me a long time, or that I talked to in depth, knew it was'nt true.
......that's all i cared about.

the reason the accuser thought that, was because THEY were doing that....

...the truth came out.

if you try to keep your mind open and try not judge other people.

......you'll discover, whatever you love, or admire or hate about another person is always a reflection of what is true about you.

and since you are the only one you can change, the information is more valuable, and you can make the world a better place, by just observing why you have
these feelings of contempt...
......and what you can do to change those feelings.

this is just something I learned, I'm passing on to you.
........givin' with a pure heart, and good intentions.

SuzzanneX
08-23-08, 10:53 AM
I just wanted to tell you, that was'nt an insult sybil, it's a real technique I use
on a constant basis, that works.

...Last night, I was making myself stay awake, because I'm changing from day shift, to grave yard shift.

......My posting was very edgy, and I hope you were'nt offended by the last comment, when I woke up today and read it
.............I thought, I prolly could have skipped it.....but, there it is and I can't change it.

Please pardon my short circuiting.......my meds were long gone.
..........there's no adversity in there aimed at you.

I know what a valuable tool this is for me, since i'm dyslexic, it's easy to do, I was sincerely trying to help .....

this is the entire technique so you know I was'nt like criticizing you or anything.

it's from my favorite book: Life 101

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/life1/lf1toc.htm

the entire book is full of information no one ever tells you.
.......and it's ADD friendly.
I read it in one day.


Acceptance

And that's the way it is.

WALTER CRONKITE


Acceptance is such an important commodity, some have called it "the first law of personal growth."

Acceptance is simply seeing something the way it is and saying, "That's the way it is."

Acceptance is not approval, consent, permission, authorization, sanction, concurrence, agreement, compliance, sympathy, endorsement, confirmation, support, ratification, assistance, advocating, backing, maintaining, authenticating, reinforcing, cultivating, encouraging, furthering, promoting, aiding, abetting, or even liking what is.


Until we truly accept everything , we can not see clearly. We will always be looking through the filters of "must's," "should's," "ought-to's," "have-to's," and prejudices.

When reality confronts our notion of what reality should be, reality always wins. (Drop something while believing gravity shouldn't make it fall. It falls anyway.) We don't like this (that is, we have trouble accepting this), so we either struggle with reality and become upset, or turn away from it and become unconscious. If you find yourself upset or unconscious--or alternating between the two--about something, you might ask yourself, "What am I not accepting?"


Acceptance is not a state of passivity or inaction. I am not saying you can't change the world, right wrongs, or replace evil with good. Acceptance is, in fact, the first step to successful action. If you don't fully accept a situation precisely the way it is, you will have difficulty changing it. Moreover, if you don't fully accept the situation, you will never really know if the situation should be changed.

When you accept, you relax; you let go; you become patient. This is an enjoyable (and effective) place for either participation or departure. To stay and struggle (even for fun things: how many times have you tried really hard to have a good time?), or to run away in disgust and/or fear is not the most fulfilling way to live. One or the other, however, is the inevitable result of nonacceptance.

Take a few moments and consider a situation you are not happy with--not your greatest burden in life, just a simple event about which you feel peeved. Now accept everything about the situation. Let it be the way it is. Because, after all, it is that way, is it not? Also, if you accept it, you will feel better about it.

After accepting it, and everything about it, you probably still won't like it, but you may stop hating and/or fearing it. At least you will hate it or fear it a little less.



The Mirror


When we look outside ourselves, we tend to evaluate. These evaluations tell us about the people and things around us.

These evaluations also tell us about ourselves.

Whatever we find "true" about the people and things around us, is also true about ourselves. When we evaluate anything outside ourselves, what we are doing is looking into a mirror; the mirror reflects back to us information about ourselves.

You may not always like what you see in the mirror; you may not always be comfortable with it; but, if you want to learn about yourself more quickly (and that's what the techniques in this section of the book will help you do), looking at yourself in the mirror of people and things is a valuable tool.

And so, with the mirror of life. You may not like all you see in the mirror, but until you look into the mirror and accept all that you see about yourself, you will not be able to make the changes (improvements) you'd like.


Let's say you look at someone and think, "She is angry, and I don't like that." Could it be you don't like being angry? If you look at someone and say, "He's scared to act. I wish he'd just do it." Could there be something you're scared about; something you wish you would "just do"?

To evaluate and blame others does little good. What do we learn? That we can evaluate and blame? We probably already know we can do that.

Using the mirror, we see that we judge and blame ourselves. This is information we can do something about. We can, for example, stop judging and blaming ourselves, or accept the fact that we do judge and blame ourselves.

Sometimes, we have to shift our focus a bit to see what it is about ourselves that's being reflected by others. For example, you may look at someone smoking and not like it. If you looked in that mirror, you might say, "I don't smoke, how does that apply to me?"

What is it you don't like about the other person's smoking? "It's unhealthy." Then, the question is: What do you do that's not healthy? "Smoking is inconsiderate." What do you do that's inconsiderate? "Smoking is a bad habit." What's your worst habit? "It's a waste of money." How do you waste money? "It shows no self-control." Where would you like more self-control?

Get the idea? There are other people's actions, and then there are the judgments we place on those actions. If we move from the action we judge, and look at the judgment, we usually find a similar judgment we make about ourselves.


The mirror gives you lots of material on which to practice acceptance. You can learn to accept everything you already know about yourself, as well as everything you learn by looking into the mirror of other people's behavior.

Your harshest judgments of others are the very ones that will benefit you most if you accept them about yourself.

The mirror also focuses you back on something (that is, someone) you can do something about. (Ever notice how little effect your judgments have on others?) Which brings us to our first Pop Quiz.

To continually have "good advice" for a world that, for the most part, is completely disinterested in (and sometimes hostile to) advice of any kind:

1. is a waste of time
2. is a waste of good advice
3. tends to alienate self from others
4. tends to alienate others from self
5. promotes self-righteousness in the giver
6. promotes resentment in the receiver
7. all of the above

Guess who could really use all that good advice? For the answer, I quote from Michael Jackson's song "Man in the Mirror": "If you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make a change." All that good advice you've been giving to others (or would gladly give them if they only had the intelligence to ask) finally has a home. You.

And, as you're the only one you can really change, the only one who can really use all your good advice is you. Isn't it wonderful that the advice giver and the best user of the advice are the same person? (If you're thinking, "I have to tell so-and-so this. She needs to take some more of her own advice," remember the mirror. It's probably you who needs to take more of your own advice.)



Again, sometimes we must shift the focus and ask ourselves the larger question in order to see how the advice we give another would fit ourselves.

If your advice to someone is to be more careful with his money, and you don't need that advice, what do you need to be more careful about? If your advice to another is to exercise more, and you already exercise a lot, what part of yourself (other than your body) could do with a bit more exercise?

When we look into the mirror of life and see all there is within ourselves that needs improvement, we know we're going to be at it for some time: changing what we can, doing our best with what we can't, accepting and forgiving it all--whenever we remember to do so. (I know, for example, that I'm really writing this book for myself, and if you care to look over my shoulder as I learn from my own "good advice," you are most welcome.)

We also see that whenever we lash out at another, we are really lashing out at ourselves. In this context, to strike another is as silly as striking the bathroom mirror because it's giving us a reflection we don't like. We can only pray that in our striking out, we don't hurt the mirror (especially when that mirror is another person). Could that be where the superstition, "If you break a mirror, it's seven years bad luck," comes from?

Thus far, I've only been talking about the "glass darkly" side of the mirror concept. It does have a lighter side--mirrors also reflect what's good about us.

All the people and things that you find loving, affectionate, caring, devoted, tender, wonderful, compassionate, beautiful, adorable, magnificent, and sacred are simply mirroring to you the loving, affectionate, caring, devoted, tender, wonderful, compassionate, beautiful, adorable, magnificent, and sacred parts of yourself.

The lighter side of the mirror is sometimes more difficult for people to accept than the darker side. "I can see that I'm impatient when I judge someone else for being impatient," you may say, "but when I see the majesty of a mountain, what does that have to do with me?" Everything. That purple mountain majesty is in you, too.

In fact, it's not really in the mountain at all. What's in the mountain is rock. What we, as humans, project onto the mountain is majesty. That's one of the reasons the mirror concept works. Most of the time we are projecting something onto almost everything. When the projection returns to us, we can see it as a reflection--which it is--or we can pretend it is emanating from the thing we projected the reflection onto.

The illusion that what we projected is coming from the thing we projected it onto is deceptive. We tend to get lost in the illusion, just as we tend to get lost in the illusion of images projected on a movie screen. It is, nonetheless, an illusion, and the source of the projection at the movie theater is the projector. The source of the things we think and feel about others is ourselves.

Using the mirror concept, we can begin to recognize the true source of the projections we send out. We begin to see that this person wasn't so bad after all. It was, in fact, what we were projecting onto him. We see that this other person wasn't so wonderful after all. We were merely projecting our wonderfulness upon her.

The more you use it, the more you will probably find the mirror concept works. This is an advanced tool for learning.

Louder Than Love
09-16-08, 12:49 PM
I can definitely elaborate on the "guilt" aspect of this.
I do it all the time.
Swallow it up, and get drunk on guilt.
And, it's not that ive done anything wrong, it's that this person i am, ive become, IS NOT
exactly what i had in mind when i made my "when I grow up" vows.

hillzy
09-16-08, 03:46 PM
Maybe that's just the way they are, and find the opportunity for change to be something so scary and filled with anxiety that they are struck with paralysis, and hence why they act the way they do. It's familiar to them, and the change causes more inner turmoil than what they can handle.

CrystalShiloh
09-16-08, 04:15 PM
the persona of being dumb, lazy or persist in feeling shameful or guilty, etc.? Don't you think that it is because they want people to feel sorry for them?

If not, why do you think some people try to play dumb, lazy, or persist in feeling shame or guilt about things?

Most people tend to meet society's expectations of them. I think that it is because they don't know any better and no one bothered to enlighten them.

QueensU_girl
10-12-08, 02:29 PM
Some people have Executive Function disabilities. It makes them "look" lazy or dumb.

QueensU_girl
10-12-08, 02:31 PM
Other things can be stuff like

-taking on the 'sick role' [for secondary gain]

-being the 'symptom bearer' for a family system [a sick family's hidden problems obviously manifest and show in only one individual -- the other member's issues are more deeply repressed/hidden]

-help rejecting complaining can be another thing happening.

QueensU_girl
10-12-08, 02:33 PM
I don't know if i would use the word 'want'. I might ask "what drives them to be conditioned (vs want)" to behave as such.

Rather than want, it might be fear (vs want).

Mincan
10-12-08, 06:12 PM
My family is like that. Everyone thinks and says behind my back that I'm unmotivated, lazy, "just need to get a job and start a life" (the uncle that kicked me out of my apartment where i was adjusting fairly well because I smoked cannabis once and got caught), selfish, lazy, lazy, lazy.

When I am at my gramas I come over to use the internet as I dont have access to it now where I had to move. (Cause of lots of my anxiety from loss of the little stability i had following the loss of my stability when my parents moved to bc and my best friend threatened to kill me, and i left a mind control cult i was raised in, all within a matter of months... these people just don't get it.) so they say all i want to do is sit in front of a computer all day. I want for one day for them to be in my mind. One ****ing day.

honeymoonapples
10-24-08, 02:15 PM
I have guilt issues too. I've read that it is common amoung adders. I feel major guilt when i wake up, when i go to bed, when i drive to work, whenever. I can't stop feeling it. i dont show it to people tho so I'm not usuing it as a tool or anything. I try to let it go but i think it is something that will come with time and more experience in life...im only 24 and discovered all these things within the past 5 years really. It really does eat me up inside, i'm on the verge of tears periodically throughout the day, everyday. " I should see my family more, i should open up to my family, i shouldn't have gone to an expensive school, i should do what i want to do with my life!, i should work out, i should havegotten better grades in school, i shoulnd't have done this to that person, " etc....thats what goes on in my head