I'm wondering if this trait is typical of ADHD kids or if it's just something my daughter does. She has a real disregard for things. She goes through stickers and paper like crazy, just putting a few things on each sheet, then it's done. Also, she is constantly not taking care of her things, even the things she really likes. Pen on her doll, ruining things in water, bending pages in books. She is not destructive per se, and she has a very structured environment and she knows what is expected of her.

I have to discourage people from giving her really nice things (glass figures, really nice dolls, dry clean clothes) because I know she will not appreciate them. She knows what money is, and spends it at garage sales, etc., but if she has more than a dollar or so it gets lost. She tore a 5 dollar bill into 3 pieces and we just said, "Oh, well, no more 5 dollars." She didn't care and didn't seem to learn any lesson from that.

We just visited a home for a few days where the woman had painstakingly restored her favorite doll from childhood. Emily was enchanted with it and asked permission to play with it. I said, "NO, you don't want Emily to have that doll" but the lady said yes and just to be careful. Sure enough, that doll was not the same when we left. I felt just sick about it.

My only solution so far is to limit her toys and keep her away from my nice things. Is there a way to teach respect and care for things? I was born treating things nicely, so I don't know at all what to do.

By the way, my daughter is 5 1/2 and adopted. She has been diagnosed as ADHD by one doctor, two others think she is borderline, one other doesn't think she is ADHD. She certainly has some of the symptoms, most notably impulsiveness and lack of attention span. Hyperactivity has become better over the last few years, but still not "normal."

Thanks for any response - Jane

I have just deleted a whole message because I may have bee wrong in what I write befoer I re write it do you know her full biological history and at age did you adopt her and do you know what happened in her life rior to her coming to you Then I will resopnd again

fiona

Fiona, We got our daughter right from the hospital, 3 days old. She did have birth trauma, bad apgar, turned blue and almost died about 5 minutes after birth. The pregnancy was stressful and sad, although nothing out of the ordinary as far as I know. I have sketchy biological details. Some mental illness on one side, ADD on the birthfather's side.

I have also considered that she might well have RAD (reactive attachment disorder) as she never got to bond with her birthmother and I never got to breastfeed her (and didn't know much about bonding issues). She was born in winter and thus she and I were always fully clothed, etc. Also, she had surgery at 8 weeks for pyloric stenosis. Doctors will say differently, but I'm convinced that this was due to her corn allergy that we did not figure out until she was 3. Her formula had corn solids as a top ingredient.

Hope this helps? Jane

I am by no means a medical person just a lay with ADD but I have worked lots with children from a variety of backgrounds and my own background which in retrospect indicated ADd but back then it wasn't recognised especially without hyperactivity.
I always feel and have seen it in children any dificulties they may have are compounded by their experience in the womb and for the first few days then months when born. I agree with you about the corn allergy thingy as well many children who have allergies etc are effected by the formula or what their mother has eaten.
The fact thier is ADd in the family history is a strong indicator.

What you describe as her being like in your first post to me is very much like I was if she is like me I did care really about breaking things losing things I often pretendd not to care as it was easier then the put downs I often got and it was and still is sometimes for me a self defence mechanism as if someone gets angry for something that I just couldn't do or thought I had done right I had already protected myself from the put down. The example you give about the doll my mother often used to say things like that about me to others in front of me she would always go on to others in the same way about how untidy I was I probably have it magnified in my head but the I don't care attitude I had was puly a protection I did care very much.

However much I tried I did try to treat things nicly but it often didn't work for me.

At the nursery I worked at we had a couple of boys who I suspect were ADD and one of them the mother used to keep 'nice' things out of his reach but always had a few nice things he could touch and have they were special and she was always positive about his approach to them and talked positivly aout his contact with them as he slowly stopped to break them she would add a new one or something different. i admirred her once he understood aobut these few things she expanded it to other areas once he got used to the language she used and that she meant it if she said now we will only look at it for 30 seconds she meant it. gradually she bagan to trust him with other peoples things as well. He still had accidents and was untidy always and messy but he learnt to respect other peoples things. I have tried to emulate this with my non (I think ADD daughter who is 3 ) she has expereince of things and toys above her age group but equally she knows if it is one of her things that breaks it is tough and it will remain broken

I have rambled a bit here but see what I am trying to say in my very ADD way of saying it. If it reads as total mixed up then tell me and I will re write it a bit clearer.

Thanks for your reply, Fiona. I am most interested in it because you say you were like that as a child. I am the most non-ADD possible person on the planet, a shy and rule-following child, straight A's academically through graduate school. Maybe you can imagine what it is like to do "all the right things" to raise my daughter and she is the one who sticks out like a sore thumb within 5 minutes in any group. I really do feel like a failure in many ways, although I know I've tried harder than most moms ever would. Just keeping her on a diet that is good for her is a time-consuming job.

That said, I'm hoping you can help with getting into Emily's head. I'm wondering what it is like to be ADD - for instance, how can something you're playing with be fine one minute and broken the next? Did you blank out, have a voice in your head, just not notice? Any light you could shed would be helpful.

Also, more on the disciplinary side, I'm having a hard time knowing what to discipline for. If Emily really can't control some things, it would be wrong for me to punish her. But there has to be a standard set somewhere. It's especially hard because she is very unpredictable - we'll have a good day and then 3 bad days, and even good and bad in a day, and I can't pin down what the pattern is. I feel like I'm on shifting sand with her.

Thanks for any comments from anyone.

Jane

Hi

I to at school was the really quiet and shy child but the difference for me is that half the time I was board and would easily get distracted If I hadn't and could have focused etc I to would have been straight A's as I ma now finding out as I have started to home study and with ritalin I can see what I could have doone.

'for instance, how can something you're playing with be fine one minute and broken the next? Did you blank out, have a voice in your head, just not notice? Any light you could shed would be helpful.'
Non of these for me I would be playing and get distracted look down and what I had in my hands had gone wrong I don't know if it was the distraction or not payin gattention to what I was doing but it just went wrong is probably the best description I can even do it now I may be holding something get focused on something lse think about another thing and uh oh I have little pieces of something in my hands or I have jsut scrumpled up or written on an important letter.

'Also, more on the disciplinary side, I'm having a hard time knowing what to discipline for. If Emily really can't control some things, it would be wrong for me to punish her. But there has to be a standard set somewhere. It's especially hard because she is very unpredictable - we'll have a good day and then 3 bad days, and even good and bad in a day, and I can't pin down what the pattern is. I feel like I'm on shifting sand with her.'
She needs to learn what is ght and wrong and being ADD isn't an excuse for doing something wrong it may contribute ats all. In the end she will have to learn to check herself.
When I worked in nurseries we used ABC charts for children who we couldn't pinpoint the asons etc. rule a sheet of paper up in 3 colums head then action cause and consequence when you have a behaviour or a dsituation that you needed to control or are concerened about write down first her action then what caused it lastly how you daelt with it and how she reacted this can be intensive and you may need a pocket recorder then write it uyp later you may even need seperate chars for different areas. when you have at least a week stuthem just to see if there is anything that you may have wover looked hindsight is a marvallous thing you may also find that one thing you do works. It may even be woth discussing it with one of the teachers at the school if you can't see a pattern aas a fresh eye can sometimes pick something up. It is something you can use if you want to try a new statergy to check how it works.

Prehaps also decide what behaviour you could ignore or are prepared to leave for the time bieng and what is a real issue and concerntrate on one area at a time in detail but the most importnt thing is building her confidence(hard I know when u know what the possible concequences could be) and keeping as consisstant as you can be with punishnments etc.

Hope this helps a bit

Fiona just ask anything you want and I 'll try to give you my experiences

Pretty interesting, Fiona. That you could just look down and see something ruined and have no idea how it got that way! I sense that in my daughter sometimes.

Well, I've always felt like the most strict and the most "mean" mom, but honestly Emily has driven me to it. For instance, she has pencils and crayons at her table in our family room, and nowhere else. Occasionally we let her bring one to a restaurant, but more often a magnadoodle or something that she can write with that won't mark up anything.

Yesterday, for instance, she somehow got a pencil in her room. She was playing in her room and came out with pencil all over her white shirt. She has known for YEARS to only draw on paper, but here we are at 5 1/2 and still having these problems! I asked her why she was drawing on her shirt, and she just said, "I wanted to." As discipline, I broke the pencil in half and told her to throw it away. Then I had her take off her shirt and clean it in the sink until all the pencil was out. Does this seem reasonable consequences?

Markers and pens are a disaster, because those stains do not come out.

Also, I've simply had to say "no" to Emily handling anything of mine that I care about. She has broken necklaces, etc. Relatives want to give her nice jewelry and I discourage it. The nice things she has gotten just get broken.

Is it okay for me to limit what she has to play with? It seems unfair but I simply cannot watch her every minute (other siblings to care for) and I think at this age she should be gaining independence.

Thanks for anyone's input.

Jane