Hi everybody. I found this forum today as I have recently been very interested in the drug Adderall. I have been taking it on and off for about 8 years. My career is seasonal as insurance adjuster, so when I am not working, I am relaxing. That does not require too much thought, so I would generally stop the Adderall cold after 1-3 months sessions, depending on the length of the assignment.

Recently I have transitioned to working more on a year round basis and I have been taking Adderall straight for almost 1.5 years. Wow, I cant even believe I just said that. Ok, my current problem is that the Adderall does not seem to be working. I usually develop a tolerance in the first month of taking it and pinnacle at 30mg twice a day. I was never able to take more than that, even working 20 hours a day. Else I would have chest discomfort and breathing anxiety when going to sleep. Over the last year I have found myself wanting to take one even on Sat & Sun when not working so that I would not feel tired all day. I am now back on a Heavy assignment that requires the long hours again, and I am finding that I am having to take as many as 120 mgs per day to just be sharp!!! This is very strange to me. Before I would have told anyone that this dose would sent the biggest meth head to the morge!! What is going on? Do I have some sort of receptor death, or perhaps an andrenaline burnout going on? I cant still think very well, but I am finding myself physically tired.. I have added some new medications to the roster over this last 1.5 years (testosterone & Paxil). Are these playing a role? Any help greatly appreciated. I am extermely worried that I am building up some half-life in my blood that may "KICK" me if whatever I am doing to combat the amphetamines should get removed. I do understand the chemical nature of the particular amphetamines and that 3 of them are about 3-4 hour eliminations, and the other 2 are more like 8-9 avg half-lives. Please help!!??

Bump, someone please??:)

yes, absolutely, you build tolerence.
...tell your doc you need yer meds adjusted.

...and hi

*smiles*

Hi there!

Yes, talk to your doc, about several things.

First of all, you may have developed a tolerance, and need your meds adjusted. Go talk to him or her NOW, because a jump to 120 mg without permission is going to make things harder for you, and for all I know it could be dangerous. It may also be a sign you have maxed out on this med and need to change to a different one.

You mentioned knowing the half life of both kinds of Adderall, are you taking both kinds? Does your doc know you are taking the 120 mg, even if only some times? There are folks who take that much, but it is not common, and doing it wthout your doctor knowing could be extremely dangerous to you and could also mean you will get cut off without meds if they are worried you are developing an addiction.

Secondly, the other meds may be playing a part. Paxil is an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety med. (I forget which it is classified as, because it can be used for both.) So, it could be causing the Adderall to act differently. Testosterone may or may not affect it. As a wise boss once told me: "Never underestimate the power of a hormone." It is not that hormones affect the meds, it is the hormones affecting the way our body processes the meds, if that makes sense. If the Adderall doc doesn't know about these meds, make a phone call and talk about it NOW.

Lastly, but not the least, you need to learn how the meds are really supposed to act for you. The fact that you don't feel a "rush" does not mean they are not working. For ages you were off and on it, and probably felt the lift quite a bit. If you are on it for longer, you don't feel that "aha" kind of push, but that does not mean it is not working.

Some of what happens is that you need to learn how to work with what you do have in your system, and learn how to work and live at a different level of awareness. The meds do not make you work, you work because the meds give you the ability to think clearly. So, if you feel like you have to work harder than you did during the first month, that may be simply your brain's chemistry adjusting, and you just need to accept that there is more work on your part.

There is a mod on here named "meadd" who talks a lot on this subject. Find those posts! It may help you a lot.

Good luck, and come back to tell us what happens!

good post . I agree with you mecmr. Although you may need to adjust your medication you need to remember that they just allow you to see things better not do the job for you. Also , testosterone can increase your body's metabolism rate that could require different doses. At high doses testosterone can make you a bit sluggish mentally as it speeds your metabolism thus making you a bit slower mentally while your body is turning proteins into muscle at an excellarating rate. Additionally, paxil may or may not be negating the benefits of adderall for you as well, as paxil is often referred to the number one med that causes sedation and slower mental functioning in many case reviews and studies. Anyways, I'd tackle those two issues before jacking up your dosage, better to try something else and remain safe than to be at a dose thats too large -

BBC3 sounds like you’re very experienced with adderall so I’m sure you’re eating enough thru the day and also not taking your meds with orange juice :)

I've taken celexa with adderall and found ssri's + stimulants to be very arousing (wakeful). Taking celexa in the evening it would make it much harder to go to bed. Definitely found the combo a bit de-motivating as well. I found myself rearing to go watch TV :) I think the decreased motivation is somehow related to the way ssri's decrease passion/emotion response. SSRI's are great meds I found them very helpful. More recently I was able to discontinue celexa which I attribute to cognitive therapy. I still can not believe cleaning out unhealthy thought patterns makes such a difference. I recommend a book called feeling good by David burns.

The mixed salts of adderall don’t impact the duration in my experience. However the two active ingredients L-amp and D-amp do seem to have different durations. D-amp is shorter in duration and only affects the brain. L-amp lasts about 1.5X longer and affects the body more. When I was taking adderall I found the mental clarity of the d-amp would fade before the physical energy from l-amp. Also the l-amp made it much harder for me to sleep. I had insomnia if I took adderall IR after ~5pm. With Dexedrine I can take even in the evening and sleep normally.

Adderall is roughly 75% d-amp and 25% l-amp in content.

BobC

I have not experienced tolerance taking 30mg/day of adderall and now 20-30mg/day of dexedrine over the last 15 months. The good news is tolerance does not mean your brain is damaged. Its a natural response where the brain simply down regulates receptors. Downregulation is reversable.

I've seen a number of posts about people using magnesium suppliments to prevent tolerance. Some people on this fourm found switching to ritian based drugs for a few months and back reset tolerance. Taking a break from stimulants may be the fastest way to reset tolerance.

Increasing the dosage unfortunatly seems to just increase the rate tolerance develops.

Definitly talk with your doctor if your medication isn't working well.

BobC

This information is generalized and not intended as specific medical advice. Consult your healthcare professional before taking or discontinuing any drug or commencing any course of treatment.

This is a medication interaction checker I ran paxil and adderall through it to see if the medications interacted. The following was generated

{Begin Quote}

MONOGRAPH TITLE: Amphetamines/Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors;

Selective Serotonin and Norepinephrine Reuptake

Inhibitors; Venlafaxine


SEVERITY LEVEL: 3-Moderate Interaction: Assess the risk to the patient and take action as needed.

MECHANISM OF ACTION: Amphetamines may affect serotonin release and/or reuptake, depending on their molecular structure. Ring substitution tends to increase amphetamine-induced release of endogenous serotonin. However, the effect on serotonin release may also be dose related and is more likely if the amphetamine is taken in greater than those approved and generally employed in treating Attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder, or if abused, especially over long periods of time.(1)

CLINICAL EFFECTS: Concurrent use of amphetamines with agents that affect serotonin may increase the risk of serotonin syndrome. Symptoms of serotonin syndrome include irritability, altered consciousness, double vision, nausea, confusion, anxiety, hyperthermia, increased muscle tone, rigidity, myoclonus, rapid fluctuations in vital signs, and coma. Serotonin syndrome may result in death.

PREDISPOSING FACTORS: High doses or long-term abuse of amphetamines may increase the risk of this interaction.

{End Quote}


Do I have your attention ?????



ADD medications are not prescribed so people can work 20 hours a day - they are not so you can avoid sleeping or so you can feel good. ADD medication are not about feelings they are about function . ADD medications are so you can be aware of when your direction of focus is fixing to wander off - ADD medications do not control our symptoms they allow us to.

I have taken Addeall 20mg every four hours while awake forever - now measured in decades and I have taken it pretty much continuously . I haven't "felt" my medication in years however the chemical changes still occur. I am able to sit still long enough to read your post and respond.

If you take a medication long enough you will quit feeling the effects because your body will adjust to the chemical changes but those same chemical changes still occur .


A good analogy is shaving - remember your first shave - if a man doesn't shave until he is say 25 - then he decides to shave he will feel "clean shaven" - his face my tingle ect . . . however if the man shaves every day he will quit feeling the effects of the razor as he becomes accustom to the feeling of clean shaven - Does that mean the razor quit working?????

The same logic applies to ADD medications - actually it applies to all medications - people on long term opioid therapy will get where they no longer "feel" their medication either however like the razor keeps removing hair even though the person has grown used to the feeling of clean shaven the medication continues to cause certain chemical changes in the brain it is just that you become accustom to the effects therefore you no longer "feel" the medications but they are still working.

ADD medication as a tool - a part of my long term ADD treatment - They allow me to realize I am being distracted as I being distracted {as opposed to two hours later when I have managed to wander off to the next county:o}

I have some ability to back ground mild disturbances however when a large orange cat jumps up on my desk and wanders between me and my monitor I will become distracted - not because my adderall needs adjusted but because I have a huge orange cat in my way - The simplest solution is often the best one = I remove said feline in order to complete my post

Besides feline removal other coping methods I employ - my desk faces a wall as opposed to a window and I have head phones readily available for American idol night - this means I still have to make physical arrangements to deal with overt distractions - my medication are only part of my ADD treatment they not all of ADD treatment. Proper diet, sleep and exercise are of equal if not of more importance because without those my medication doesn't work properly because my body isn't able to work properly.

To rely solely on medications to do all of the ADD management is asking for trouble and it sounds like that is exactly where you are headed = trouble.

Taking ADD medication for a feeling or to prevent your body from getting the sleep it needs to function properly is like playing Russian roulette with your brain . . . .

Thank you for all the replys so far.

Yes I am pretty experienced with Adderall. I was never diagnosed with ADHD as a child, but pretty sure it caused a lot of problems. I am highly intelligent and was very high strung when young. I could never perform well on written school tests. Everyone used to make fun of me for drinking about 3 liters of Coke a day. Looking back, I believe I was self medicating.

When I was 28 (ten yrs ago) someone gave me 15mgs of adderall. I remeber the first sweaty rush playing laser tag. I just thought lots of fun. But I later noticed how clear things became. And continued with a lot of success.

Regarding the adderall and potential for abuse. I agree working many hours is Not healthy. However, I am forced to in my profession. The argument could also be construed as a "chicken or the egg". Adderall is used to help focus. You are tired you cant focus.. etc..

I personally do not think the hormone replacement is affecting in any way as the sythetic testosterone simply mimics the body's own as you would have anyway.

Regarding the Paxil. I have taken very lightly on and off. The longest I was ever on was one year. I quit because I felt I had been on too long. That was a mistake. I do very well on it. Paxil tends to make you very sleepy (40mgs/day) at first. I am only 2 months into it this time. I plan to stay on again. I think that it may be affecting the physical body wakeup to adderall in that it is neutralizing it. Combined with being overworked, I think my body is simply tired. I KNOW that it is still working as I can think very clearly, even when falling asleep with no problems. Perhaps I could finally be fully adjusted to the meds and once the Paxil normalizes, I will be fine at 60MGs again. It is funny though. I recently switched to Brand Adderall and I swear it is much "smoother". The generic seems to last way longer causing difficulty sleeping and heart anomalies. I am sure it is composed of more long acting ampheds!!! Even though it is made by the same Brand Company.. With the generic, I cold not even take the full 60mgs without taking the weekends off, or at least down to 30mgs. The half lives really seemed to stack up with generic. I am sure there is a difference.

Further thoughts. I recently began taking the full 60 mgs in the morning in a 2-3 hour window. This was because of the sleep probs associated with the generic. I am thinking that this has caused some type of severe reaction causing my body to potentially down regulate.

I am also concerned about adrenal fatigue. I am pretty sure my adrenal system may be absolutel exausted. I started this current adderall regimen about 1 year ago today (thinking back). I started out kinda heavy at 30 mgs/day because I usually always tolerate that dose in one month. I do remeber feeling the "tops" of my kidneys kind of hurting at a few different time on and off. I looked it up and it turns out the adrenal glands sit right there. I KNOW that I need to take some time and reset my system. I simply dread that day as i cant even get out of bed without it at this point. Perhap when I am done working at this capacity in a few months I will begin a controlled wean down. I am guessing that is the only way I can get off for a while.

Any more thoughts Please??:)

adrenal fatigue is a poor term mainly used by snake oil dealers. chronic fatigue is probably a better term then adrenal fatigue. The other medical term is adrenal insufficiency, but thats has fairly specific symptoms.

Chronic fatigue is very interesting and it has similarities to ADHD in neurologic causes.

Dr. Jay Goldstein, Anaheim, California has an interesting protocol of treating neruo(lymbic) based chronic fatigue. Its really a shotgun approach to see what works. His first treatment is interesting as you can sorta try it at home with OTC eye drops.

" 1. Napthazoline HCL 0.1% gtt OU. If alpha-adrenergic eye drops help a
pt feel better, they will also stop his panic attacks (if he has them).
The drops are effective in a few seconds and are not addictive,
although tolerance may develop. In 1/5 pts there is signif. relief of
pain and tender pt sensitivity, as well as decreased fatigue and more
mental clarity; also decrease in anxiety level. Induces cerebral
vasoconstriction. Some pts become overstimulated by 0.1% naph. and
complain of nervousness and insomnia. This can be resolved by diluting
the product in normal saline until there are no adverse reactions.

Case Report -46 yr old accountant with a history of NIDDM, migraine,
had developed asthma and multiple chemical sensitivities at age 42. At
age 44 had developed CFS with fatigue, sleep disorder, cognitive
dysfunction and fibromyalgia and had to stop working. Ten seconds
after 0.1% naphazoline eye drops, all her symptoms were gone. She
maintained this improvement for the six months she was followed, as
long as she took the naphazoline once or twice daily. Her multiple
chemical sensitivity resolved as well."

Also for CFS its worth mentioning Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum. His protocol is much broader looking for problems in sleep/nutriton/disease etc....

BobC

I too have a bit of a problem with your justification for taking Adderall to allow you to work for 20 hrs a day. As you know, even if you dont have ADHD, stimulants will allow you to work longer hours. Truck drivers, the military, etc has used speed to allow people to work for longer hours. It seems that you are justifying taking adderall to extend your work day just because you have ADHD.

Let me make this simple. The reason you need to take such high doses of Adderal is because you are working too much and sleeping to little. OK?

NO, I see you are "California Dream'in" again. I did not come here for a ****ing psych eval. Let me clairify. I have been diagnosed ADULT ADD... AND YES. Obviously if you are working longer hours, you will probably need more of the drug so that it will remain effected through the extended waking hours.

I see all types of forums are inclusive of jackassess:eek:;)

FURTHER, If I wanted to stay awake, I would take the drug that truckers actually use, Provigil...... I get the feeling we have an upset daddy here..

I have very young children at this time. I am pretty sure my 4 year old will behave exactly as I did. Whether or not I would actually endorse her taking Adderall at the right time is unknown. Simply because I would be worried about growth issues with ampheds. Allthough I am forcasting no issues once physically tolerated. Adderall was A GREAT RUSH the first few months I messed with it on and offf. It does not do that for me anymore, and guess what, I still take it. Wonder why??? I know peoples children that were on it for years through early adolescence. Those kids have absolutely NO INTEREST in using the drug, NOR OTHER Illegal drugs.... Wake up. Sometimes an open exposure can remove the curtain and dispell the myth, thus killing all that mystical allure... Get a grip and go figure.....

Hi BBc3!
wellcome to the forum!
i m really feeling sad for u.but we have nothing to do only but the treatment.
it will better for u too discuss about prob with doctor.u know its sophisticated matter so we should be very careful and aware what other says and should keep in mind does he reliable one!!!!!!!!!!

NO, I see you are "California Dream'in" again. I did not come here for a ****ing psych eval. Let me clairify. I have been diagnosed ADULT ADD... AND YES. Obviously if you are working longer hours, you will probably need more of the drug so that it will remain effected through the extended waking hours.

I see all types of forums are inclusive of jackassess:eek:;)

FURTHER, If I wanted to stay awake, I would take the drug that truckers actually use, Provigil...... I get the feeling we have an upset daddy here..

I have very young children at this time. I am pretty sure my 4 year old will behave exactly as I did. Whether or not I would actually endorse her taking Adderall at the right time is unknown. Simply because I would be worried about growth issues with ampheds. Allthough I am forcasting no issues once physically tolerated. Adderall was A GREAT RUSH the first few months I messed with it on and offf. It does not do that for me anymore, and guess what, I still take it. Wonder why??? I know peoples children that were on it for years through early adolescence. Those kids have absolutely NO INTEREST in using the drug, NOR OTHER Illegal drugs.... Wake up. Sometimes an open exposure can remove the curtain and dispell the myth, thus killing all that mystical allure... Get a grip and go figure.....

Sorry you don't like my advice. Let us know what the Dr's advice is. Good luck.