Hmmm

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_counseling/Webb_MisdiagnosisAndDualDiagnosisOfGiftedChildren. shtml

kilt

Well, to fully understand the point of the article, I'll need the Author's definition of "Gifted"...I've found it's different, depending on whom you're talking to. For instance, most public schools (when I was a child) separated Gifted and Learning Disabled at opposite ends of the spectrum, whereas this author believes they can be concurrant...

The chart explains it some...

He says that "Gifted" kids have the strength characteristics. But the flip-side of those strengths are the possible problems, which are often associated with LD or a disability/disorder (such as ADHD).

I am sure some may disagree, but I've never seen my ADHD as being a learning disability as much as I see it be a learning behavior.

I see all the strength characteristics in myself, but I can assure you that those who know me have complained, more than once, about the problem characteristics.

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" bgColor=#000000 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Strengths</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Possible Problems</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Acquires and retains information quickly.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Impatient with slowness of others; dislikes routine and drill; may resist mastering foundational skills; may make concepts unduly complex.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Inquisitive attitude, intellectual curiosity; intrinsic motivation; searching for significance.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Asks embarrassing questions; strong-willed; resists direction; seems excessive in interests; expects same of others.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Ability to conceptualize, abstract, synthesize; enjoys problem-solving and intellectual activity.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Rejects or omits details; resists practice or drill; questions teaching procedures.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Can see cause--effect relations.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Difficulty accepting the illogical-such as feelings, traditions, or matters to be taken on faith. </TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Love of truth, equity, and fair play.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Difficulty in being practical; worry about humanitarian concerns.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Enjoys organizing things and people into structure and order; seeks to systematize.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Constructs complicated rules or systems; may be seen as bossy, rude, or domineering.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Large vocabulary and facile verbal proficiency; broad information in advanced areas.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>May use words to escape or avoid situations; becomes bored with school and age-peers; seen by others as a "know it all."</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Thinks critically; has high expectancies; is self-critical and evaluates others.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Critical or intolerant toward others; may become discouraged or depressed; perfectionistic.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Keen observer; willing to consider the unusual; open to new experiences.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Overly intense focus; occasional gullibility.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Creative and inventive; likes new ways of doing things.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>May disrupt plans or reject what is already known; seen by others as different and out of step.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Intense concentration; long attention span in areas of interest; goal-directed behavior; persistence.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Resists interruption; neglects duties or people during period of focused interests; stubbornness.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Sensitivity, empathy for others; desire to be accepted by others.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Sensitivity to criticism or peer rejection; expects others to have similar values; need for success and recognition; may feel different and alienated.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>High energy, alertness, eagerness; periods of intense efforts.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Frustration with inactivity; eagerness may disrupt others' schedules; needs continual stimulation; may be seen as hyperactive.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Independent; prefers individualized work; reliant on self.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>May reject parent or peer input; non-conformity; may be unconventional.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Diverse interests and abilities; versatility.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>May appear scattered and disorganized; frustrations over lack of time; others may expect continual competence.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Strong sense of humor.</TD><TD width="50%" bgColor=#ffffff>Sees absurdities of situations; humor may not be understood by peers; may become "class clown" to gain attention.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Thanks for the article. It just proves that I really am a genius. :D If everyone would just stop all their complaining and accept that I am a genius, we'd all get along a lot better.

I think the articles definition of gifted is in fact just mild to moderate ADHD, which it then compares to the stereotypical image of ADHD.

Uhmmm...I don't know...If I am anything, I'm both.

And "gifted" may be a strong word for me, since my IQ has been rated at about 115-120 and not higher. (And I'm wondering if I haven't grown stupider with age and several depressions over the past ten years, but that's a whole other story ;))

I can easily relate to some of the problems, especially in grades 1-10, but I don't think the main part of my troubles stemmed/stems from high IQ.
I feel that my IQ has mainly served as a buffer for the rest of my brain's somersaults, and therefor helped me through school despite my ADHD, hiding the most debilitating symptoms from all of us instead of making them worse as it seems it would do in the article (the way I read it).

On the other hand, I may not be smart enough that the article applies to me.

I've had a think about it and wonder if there's a continuum going on here where similarities are associated both with the environmental factors in childhood and some underlying brain differences.

Also... I am suspicious about the use of the word gifted, for as Tanuki says it's a word that isn't easily defined, just as it's difficult to diagnose ADD just by looking at someone so it is difficult to say what "gifted" means.

Maybe gifted means high IQ across the board WITHOUT the "executive processing deficit" that some say is core to the ADD diagnosis.

If so then maybe much of the similarity comes from the persons envronment, a feeling of not fitting in, of not being understood, maybe of being shunned by classmates and bored by school?

Just as some ADDers seem to thrive and not actually have a "disorder" despite showing some signs of the underlying neurochemical traits so it is with the "gifted"...

some of them find the right niche and others flop around trying to fit their squareness into society's round holes.

kilted

Without going too deep into the article, I see two points of interest which strike me right off the bat.

1. Giftedness as a disorder?...."dual diagnosis". I think they may run into some problems with this if that indeed is their intentions.

2. Misdiagnosis: It is known that very bright children as well as a lot of others can and often are misdiagnosed as ADHD. In the Differential Diagnosis section on ADHD in the DSM the a number of warnings are given including "Inattention in the classroom may also occur when children with high intelligence are placed in academically understimulating environments." It is well known that kids bored out of their skulls often mimic quite well many of the behaviors of ADHD. A lot of things can mimic ADHD symptoms. Clinicians generally should know they have to be on the watch for these and others when doing an assessment. This is nothing new. Unfortunately not all clinicians keep up with the literature nor even read the DSM after training so it is probably good that they are addressing this issue. It can be a real source of misdiagnosis and that problem is real.

Interesting article though. Time will tell what impact the book will have.

Dizfriz

I have been noted as being gifted and untreated ADD/ADHD has led to various comorbid problems. A proper diagnosis has changed my life dramaticlly. However I believe that majority of those problems came from my intelligence itself. Call it a gift or a curse...I think its often both.

I have been noted as being gifted and untreated ADD/ADHD has led to various comorbid problems. A proper diagnosis has changed my life dramaticlly. However I believe that majority of those problems came from my intelligence itself. Call it a gift or a curse...I think its often both.

Ditto but I also think ADD can bring with it a very different type of learning style, heuristic learning, which doesn't fit in to mainstream education.

Good site, Kilted, thanks.

1. Giftedness as a disorder

Call it a gift or a curse...I think its often both.

the gift is the curse - when it's no longer a gift it'll no longer be a curse -
we'll all be ADD.
Before any suggestions that an ADD society would be poor -
it's worth pointing out how little of our lives are spent doing anything of any worth currently -

- it really is time to start again with the ADDer sense of
'but do I really have to'
high on the list of priorities -

- we shouldn't do it unless it's fun -

sadly though there're two funs -

ADDer
and
nonADDer fun

and we need to define ADD fun and eliminate nonADD fun to move on -

ADD fun involves thinking and community -

- nonADD fun is selfish by definition and externalized towards the physical world.

ADD takes over when we finally come around to a deep-seated understanding of ourselves as a module in the mind which is resident within a brain, which is resident within a body -
separate subsystems which communicate via endocrine and neural circuitry -

- general internal, neurology and psychiatry are the attempts made by medicine to cover the disorders of those subsystems -
the interface between, however, proving too much to handle.

Depends on the day, I mean hour, I mean minute :D

My experience is that children classified as "Gifted" often have a number of emotional problems, ranging from poor social skills, excessive anxiety, depression,etc.; to name a few.

To the best of my knowledge, I've never read anything that purports to imply that there's a connection of some sorts between ADHD & Giftedness.

I realize this gets bantered about a lot, but the research I've read doesn't confirm that.

I appreciate the heads up on the article and thanks for the thread.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

I gained an entirely different education than the rest of my classmates. I learned from an early age to do whatever it takes to pass and fit in. I got 3.0s all through high school and I never studied, I was a master at cutting corners. The way that my brain developed created a truely unique way of thinking about everything. Once I got treated, life was not the same.

A gift? with proper treatment yes, but without treatment I could not deal with life.

Hey everyone!
I was passing by and read Ferdinan's comment and was wondering what his treatment was???!!! if you or anyone here can suggest something...anything!!! please!! jeje...it would be of great help! since i have recently been diagnosed!! i finally now whats going on with me !!!
thanks to all!
xg :)

This giftedness/ADHD dichotomy brings to mind that Da Vinci brain book- of which I have only cursory knowledge. I think the ADD ability to hyperfocus at times and to have a broad range of peripheral interests can be a real gift- our wider interests mean we can see all sorts of crosslinks between ideas that others can't. We are certainly told that all manner of clever, successful people have ADHD. The challenge is to build on these strengths in a constructive manner.
My own observation is that my ability to focus to my best is dominated by interest on one hand and my disinclination to get involved in seemingly unsolvable situations on the other. It leads to a lopsided development- with relative neglect of my social skills- much to my disadvantage as time passes.
I think the link is this- if the individual deficiencies an ADD child faces can be addressed ( teaching the child to break down his defences and face the things that are hurting him rather than hiding from them, then to construct a system to solve ( in small- easy steps) the apparently unsolvable core problem- [for instance bullying or lack of friends ]) then the child will learn success, self love and a solid problem solving structure that can be deployed at will. Then his capacity for giftedness will emerge.This needs a school with very good pastoral care - and much greater parental support than we are used to. It would be money well spent.

False dilema. We can be both gifted and have ADD.

I was placed in the so-called "Gifted" track in school; I probably should have received mental conseling rather than giving me access to stuff that was ahead of my classmates under the assumption that I was "gifted." Most of the time I was just bored. Except for music, science and psychology. Of course, ADD wasn't defined at the time.

I think the labels are sometimes harmful.

This giftedness/ADHD dichotomy brings to mind that Da Vinci brain book- of which I have only cursory knowledge. I think the ADD ability to hyperfocus at times and to have a broad range of peripheral interests can be a real gift- our wider interests mean we can see all sorts of crosslinks between ideas that others can't. We are certainly told that all manner of clever, successful people have ADHD. The challenge is to build on these strengths in a constructive manner.My own observation is that my ability to focus to my best is dominated by interest on one hand and my disinclination to get involved in seemingly unsolvable situations on the other. It leads to a lopsided development- with relative neglect of my social skills- much to my disadvantage as time passes.
I think the link is this- if the individual deficiencies an ADD child faces can be addressed ( teaching the child to break down his defences and face the things that are hurting him rather than hiding from them, then to construct a system to solve ( in small- easy steps) the apparently unsolvable core problem- [for instance bullying or lack of friends ]) then the child will learn success, self love and a solid problem solving structure that can be deployed at will. Then his capacity for giftedness will emerge.This needs a school with very good pastoral care - and much greater parental support than we are used to. It would be money well spent.
Well Andyk,
The Da vinci method is working with me so far, but with a great efforthttp://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/emoticons/smile_wink.gif

Now, i'm doing an academic research that i delievered its idea from your book,

it's titled > Creativity and Mental Disorders < ,,, like ADHD, Autism, bi-polar..

i hoping some help in the main ideas i SHOULD wrote about,,

My ideas so far are:

1. the link inbetween ,creativity and mental disorders, and the misdiagnoses ahich leads to this mis-nomer{DISORDER}

2. how to start dealing with those disordered people, as the gifted ones, geniuses, and leaders,, from thier childhood instead of using meds.. how to channel these abilities in the right way, as a second step ...

thanks for reading and i 'll realy appreciate any help, because it seems here that i am the only one who believe in that, AM I WRONG ?!

thx kilt for yur site,,
chowowogirl, u MAY be the best ans SO FAR.......
waiting for replies guys ;)

Ya, kinda interesting and you guys might be mad if I bring this up but ADHD is in my opinion Ne or N and P (intuition and perception), in socionics, this refers to the personality types INTP - the engineer, INFP - the healer, ENTP - the inventor/entreprenour, ENFP - the idealist/performer. Essentially, the only reason the term ADD exists is because there overwhelming majority of people are not Ne. If you don't believe me look this stuff up for yourself. The only reason I believe that medication has began to be administered is because in schools are overwhelmingly SJ run. SJ - the administrator, and upholder of the system. Ironically, a system that is most often created by NT and NF, funny huh?

Anyway, the point is that Ne most often pursues carrears in reasearch and higher education if Introverted, or pursues carrears in buisness or politics if Extroverted. The biggest kick that I'm getting right now is that my teachers thought that I was retarded in grade school, then I aced the SAT (w/o extra time I might add) and when I got to college I discovered that all the fun research that I was doing on the internet is what was being taught!!!!!

So heres to us, the best and the brightest, too smart for this world, at least till college/university.