I don't have any digitized shots of my kids... That has a lot to do with them butchering my old operating system and necessitating the slicking of the hard drive and the current upgrade. I have just about got the system, dare I say it, "kid proofed". She still needs a little work though. Like an automated laser cannon that will vaporize anyone attempting to do unauthorized downloads. None of these children has ADD, and still their destructive might is awesome to behold! Sadly for them, they think their kid powers more than a match for me. Little do they realize, I was a million, nay a gazillion times worse than all three of them combined when I was but a wee toddler! Oh, but I am way ahead of them and they don't even know it! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Just wait until I install the wedgie-matic in the computer chair for incorrect admin passwords!

ha hah hahahhahahahahahahah, That was a veryy fuunnny posst!

LMBO

Oh my gosh, E-boy! You have no idea what I had to do to Teen proof my computer!!!! My daughter who struggles (till this year) in school, can program anything. She can change settings in a blink of an eye. My son, the honor student still has no idea how to cut and paste (I made him take a computer course this semester). :)

Thank you all for your comments about my children... I'm so proud of them :)

Yeah, well my comp isn't kid proofed yet. There are still "unauthorized" downloads going on. This after I had unqualified agreement from both older boys not to download any software of any kind. So, I go up there the other evening, wonder why the browser's running a tad bit slow and check the processes actively running. There are three, count 'em, THREE pop-up blocking programs running at one time, and miscellaneous other shareware utilities also uselessly duplicated all running simultaneously and eating up precious memory. "CHRISTOPHER, BRIAN!!!!!" faintly in the distance less than pleased "what's?!" are heard as they are interrupted in whatever trouble they are stirring up downstairs. "Come up here for a minute please!" I say as sweetly as possible at that volume. There is a long pause, as my tone has given away the fact they have done something wrong. "What do you want?" they say in unison, noticeably more politely than before. "COME UPSTAIRS NOW PLEASE, BOTH OF YOU." I repeat. No sweetness this time and much more firmly. "AW MAN!" Again in unison. Up the stairs they come, the fact that they come against their own better judgment apparent in every resigned exaggerated glomp of a step on the stairwell.

At last they arrive, and I point out all the excess software. Noting that their mother doesn't use the stuff, or download it, that I certainly didn't down load it, and that in spite of their protestations that we KNOW it didn't download itself. I point out, that we already had a pop-up blocker of our own, and didn't need three more, and that all the other stuff was also un-necessary. I pointed out that it all came packaged with addware and spyware. I pointed out that excessive downloads and malicious code getting onto our hard drive through those downloads had resulted in quite a bit of work on my part to fix our system (hence the rules about downloads), and lastly I showed them how slow the system gets, even with the extra memory I added, when you run a hundred million programs in the backround. Funny thing was, no one had downloaded that software. Neither of them.... Oh, they both looked guilt stricken, and the fact that one of the downloads was DDR software and they are both DDR nuts was just a coincidence.

Anyway, I am truly about two steps away from instituting either admin passwords, or ceasing to maintain the system period. If I institute a password, it will only be a matter of time before Mom gives it to them (I have done this before). On the other hand if I cease maintaining the system I give them a few months before they no longer have a working computer. Then maybe they will listen to me. :-) Tough love, cyber style.

oo, oo, oo,

mista dan? do we getta vote?

do we? do we?

i vote for tough love - cyber style!

even if, selfishly, i want you to continue to maintain the system so you can continue to participate here.

so, tough love. as long as we don't hafta suffer too. i know, i know. it's selfish. but hey, you asked for my opinion ...

what? pardon? he didn't ask?

ahhh, emmmm. Never mind. ;)

*giggles sheepishly* someone's children sound's an awful lot like someone's wife *blushes*

Dan I assume by your comments that you are running windoz.

One alternative might be to put a simple Linux firewall box in front of your internet access.
I've heard good things about this one. You could control many things from there and it does not require a modern box to do the job. Any old 486 will do.
http://www.coyotelinux.com/

Or better yet to run Linux outright and have proper accounts for everyone. You can easily dual boot for a while until you get your legs under you. A great way to have a peak at the current state of Linux is to download a copy of Knoppix and make a bootable cd out of the ISO. When you reboot to the cd it boots up like a game might, except it's a full blown bells and whistles operating system. It runs in RAM and when you reboot it's gone. Worth a look at any rate.
http://www.knoppix.net/

Even if we get a winduhs box up here which I think will happen shortly I will run it behind the Linux machine on the LAN. My desktop box masquerades ip for the girls machine as it is and the new "XP" would do similar things under "samba" which allows you to maintain windoz boxen from Linux.

For all legitimate purposes this box running Linux provides our girls with everything they need and more as far as I'm concerned. This is not a gaming machine. If I had one it wouldn't be connected to the web. They have ended up being much more knowlegable about these machines and it's showing up well for them at school. Micro$oft software tends to keep people dumb about the tools they are using.

I'm now in my fourth year of running the Linux operating system from Redhat and it's been wild. No more virus, worm or Trojan horse trouble.. and I mean none!

If anyone wants to learn more about a better way of protecting teens from themselves and others and at the same time providing them with a platform that can lead to real tech jobs this is one of the best "newbie" guides for Linux on the web. A Canadian family put this guide together for us all.
http://linux-newbie.sunsite.dk/

Ok ok ok.. before the admins have to drag me away screaming.. I'm done..
Cheers! Ian... on a mission... any mission.. heh
:bowl:

Pardon me while I slip into something asbestos...

Kassie's taking notes......

If there is ever any questions.. don't hesitate please... but be careful once you open the flood gates it can get ugly... ehhe

Cheers! Ian.

Yeah Ian, I am toying with the idea on a cost basis alone. Windows charges so much just for the priviledge of using their loose code, memory hogging, suprisingly non-backwards compatible backwards compatible, and let us not forget highly proprietary product. I liked '98. I'm using XP right now, but on the whole with the exception of the wide spread compatibility, and that's thanks to the lock on the market that Mr. Gates has, the software just doesn't have that much going for it. Every competitor that really had something going for it that I liked has been driven under. Open source code is another matter entirely.

For starters, it's powerful like it's inspiration UNIX. It isn't the memory hog windows is. The killer app problem is well on it's way to being a thing of the past as windows compatible word processing, spreadsheet and database software are now available, and I hear there is even a goey type interface available if you want one. A box set of software for the operating system is about a tenth the price of the windows operating system. I don't know the operating parameters, but I'd be willing to bet the amount of space it uses is probable less than a tenth what windows does and if it was figured on a functionality basis I'm sure it would get ugly indeed for the patch ridden Bill Gates product.

For the record there are even games for Linux machines though precious few from what I've heard. The original UNIX operating system was written in C by a guy at ATT Bell labs to play a game he had written in his spare time... Heh, computer geeks... Hey, why's everyone looking at me like that? I'm not a... HEY! Fine, so I dig computers a little, I don't write code... Anymore.... Okay maybe a little assembly code for specific machines, once in a very great while, but that is strictly arithmetic algorithms for troubleshooting purposes! I'm a tech! Tell 'em Ian!

Anyway, I keep thinking about it... Anything that puts you closer to the hardware layer of a network makes it a ton easier to manage the software end. Microsoft likes to conceal what the software is doing to make it all "mysterious". The more incomprehensible it is to mere mortals the more job security there is to microsoft ceritfied professionals. GACK! You made me say it!

I miss the days of menu driven network setups, or dos-like commands. It was all very straight forward. You knew what was happening. NT is a nightmare. UNIX is different, and does weird stuff like treat devices like files, but again you can see exactly what is happening. Nothing counter intuitive going on. I couldn't even get the Microsoft certified geniuses to figure out how to set up my NT laptop so when I went on travel I could do dial up access to my e-mail during mobile system installs. Incidentally, I don't recommend ever riding on south american ships. The Brazillian and Chillean Navy's were cool, but Peruvian and Venezuelan... ARRRRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't eat, don't sleep, don't go to the bathroom, don't drink, don't let them leave you aboard that ship for any reason whatsoever! But getting back to those highly qualified NT weenies. They should have dropped them all on the nearest Peruvian destroyer leaving on extended deployment! "ENJOY THE DONKEY JAWBONE SOUP LOSERS!"

Oh, and yes they really do eat that kind of crap. Don't ask, just take my word for it. One learns many things the hard way in the United States Navy.

Get going man.. if you think a graphic user interface is news to Linux you are in for a sweet surprise. My experience with Star Office in particular is that is is far more backward compatable with windoz software than windoz is.

You are in for a treat my man.. if you have broad band download Knoppix. If you don't go to somewhere like www.chguy.com (friend of mine) or www.cheapbytes.com and pay $5 for an operating system.. lol chguy gives email support for life if you buy from him but he's weird that way. < g >

Oh you will be thrilled.. your expectations are so low.. lol! ehhe
Cheers! Ian. :frog:

I am NOT showing any of this to my husband NOPE NOPE NOPE it would ruin all my fun. lol

What's his name again?... ehhe

You want the following, IMHO...

-Separate password/logins would be good, but not strictly necessary;

-A hidden keylogger. This will literally track every key pressed on your computer and record it to a file somewhere for you secretly. That way you can tell exactly when program X was installed, and who was logged in under what password at the time.

I'd be inclined to instigate a "sliding scale" of punishments for the kids. i.e. start off with punishment = 24 hour ban on computer, and then each time in the future the rules are violated, add another 24 hours to the ban... punishment is for both of them, no matter which one did it... that way the more they screw up the computer... the less you have to put up with them screwing up the computer... if you see what I mean...

I would kick you in the shins itchaotic there is NO way I'm telling you the big guy's name uh uh no way.

Separating user accounts from administrative accounts is key. As I understand it even XP on NTFS is pretty lame in this department. But there are so many issues with winduhs it's not funny. How most of the people are fooled most of the time still baffles me.

wc I can't sanction that type of control around here, even though it's well and truly available to me.. nope.. they are responsible for their own actions.. I just don't want them to mess with my machine. For a look into really invasive software check out "VNC". I used to to fix my bros puter a few thousand miles away. Spooky to use and way way powerful.

Censorship is not good for me. I put my time in and the kids are remarkable. Now.. I don't have boys and I must have taken years off my parents lives when I was a kid but if my kids were abusing the machinery I'd just strip it down to where I had control.

As it is though they can install software into their own accounts if they like but the way *nix is set up they can't threaten the system as a whole. However I was a threat to the system for the first couple of years.. heh

Oh.. Cherity... Cherity.. ????? where are you... ... youhoo... I can't see you.....eheheh

Cheers! Ian.

I am right here and hubby's admin code is our wedding date how stupid was that. *shakes head* MEN they make life way to easy lol

WC,

I understand your logic, but on a personal system I won't install anything that invasive. The wife uses this system too. Besides, it isn't so much that I can't tell the rules are being violated, that becomes apparent astoundingly quickly with the unauthorized software, that "Nobody" whichever of them, or both as the case may be seems partial to, comes "bundled" with Ad-ware and spyware so nasty that even with having upgraded to upwards of five times the memory I had before the system slows down to a crawl within a very short time of these things taking up residence in it. I am not sure the boys realize how easy it is to spot this stuff even without Spyware detecting software (which I do have) or adware removal software (which I also have). Viruses and worms are nasty enough, but at least they are among the nasties being actively combated legally these days. Spyware, and adware are still "Legitmate" business practices.

It is far easier to reach my boys through a reasoned and intelligent discourse, I hope, than through draconian administrative measures. While a minor inconvenience to me, They would be more intolerable to the spouse who finds computers a necessary evil. In a nutshell, she doesn't care how they work. She just wants to them to work the way she expects them to and go about her business. Unexpected complications to the routine, such as extra passwords and logins, are not welcome.

Ian, I have to say the open source movement is looking more and more attractive. As it happens I do have a high bandwidth connection. I may have to hit one of those sites and check it out. I don't think it would cure the adware, spyware blues but at least there is less to worry about in the way of malicious code and a lot less to worry about by way of patch ridden security nightmare code by microsoft.

My daughter (of 14 years) has her own computer (just a beater that I built) and it is controled by 2 words (common sence)

If she doesnt use (common sense ) when it comes to her computer , where on the net she goes and what she downloads, she is fully aware I can shut it down from any where in the world.

I tell her she is not allowed to use it anymore

For 1 and 1/2 years I have had no problem from her at all

Maybe Im just lucky as my Oldest son was a different story and my middle son left me sitting in the dust with how quick he learned how to control his computer.

Dan it does address the spyware in all it's guises. It baffles me how you can resist the temptation to begin to at least look at it. It costs nothing but a single cdr... no change to your hard drive to try Knoppix.. no time except the time to reboot... baffled.

For those who run winduhs and have concerns about the points Dan has made regarding spyware, please use "spybot s&d" to keep from imploding under the weight of the evil spammers ever willing to use your profile to sell to the highest bidder. There are other applications like "ad-aware" that are good too but spybot s&d is under heavy development which means that it's leading the way on many fronts.. it's free.. it's good.. use it. Thank the Open Source world for another excellent bit of software.
http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?lang=en&page=download

Cheers! Ian.

Well, I often find my spysweeper software "inactive" or simply turned off to "speed up" the computer... SIGH!

Part of the problem is their friends who either have their "OWN" computers, or have parents who aren't computer savy enough, to know, or simply don't care, what their kids are doing to the shared system. It only takes one of my boys knowing Mike, or Josh are doing this, for them not to want to be left in the dust. I have tried to do some damage control by showing them alternatives sites I am aware of that are not virus factories, don't bundle ad-ware, and have things they are interested in, but I'm afraid at the advanced age of thirty four I just can't keep up with what interests fourteen year olds these days. Fortunately for me, I can more than keep up with them on the computer. In my field, I always have at least a few buddies that know the stuff I haven't bothered myself with learning, or refreshing on in a while. So, even if they do get ahead of me, I still got 'em. ;-)

Besides, if they get too software savy, I'll just get a really exotic hardware engine that has to run a really exotic operating system and they'll be at sqaure one, while E-boy who has the backround will be having fun!

Ian, I promise as soon as I have some blank CDR's and a little time I will do as requested. Heh, it sure will P.O. the wife if she likes the O.S. and finds out it's free when we just shelled out what we did for XP. HA HA HA HA HA! Not as ironic as it sounds though. She never would have risked an unknown quantity sight unseen, so it really isn't as though the money never would have been spent.

I think for my next upgrade.... Definitely gonna be mother board/processor. Throw in a good graphics card, of course if you're gonna do that you gotta go with the sound card too. Secondary memory upgrade, another hard drive, DVD... Of course, when enough spare parts develop I'll have to get a couple of NIC's a case, power supply, keyboard, and monitor and throw together a little mini-network so I can teach my boys the fine art of how to lose gracefully at three dimensional real time strategy games. Yeah, I think it's pretty valuable to learn young what it's like to have your perimeter overrun by overwhelming firepower and be run down to a man until every cowering sniveling ex-soldier is in the prison barracks... Oh, sorry got carried away there... :-)

The networking on Linux is a gas. I set up the girls old Pentium MMX with a whopping 64 megs of RAM so that it runs programs over the network on the strength of the processing and RAM on the main box. Clear as mud? Let me try again.. Mr. verbosity.. heal thy self!

There is a big office application that the girls don't have on their box. I have it on my primary machine. They can log into this machine via the network and run the application and it shows up on the screen and keyboard of their old Pentium box with all the "omph" as if it was running on the big machine. Way cool... ;^)

The kids have picked up a ton of useful puter info running the other OS. They find winduhs clunky now and it makes me smile when they say things like, "why would they make it so you had to click so many times?" sigh.. oh the joys of parenting.. or.. simple minds simple pleasures.. < g >

Over the years the kids have learnt to not be afraid of the complexity that can come with the myriad of choices available under Linux. It's lead to our eldest doing some rudimentary html.. static pages is all I can code reasonably anyway. She hand coded a few things and now can use a gui ("graphic user interface" for those lurking) to start and a text editor to clean up and tweak the details. She hasn't done much lately but here is her last effort. She's such a sweetie.. and seventeen now! When did that happen?
http://ca.geocities.com/meite2/shirts/ This was the first one she did mostly on her own.

Spybot isn't a tax on the system. I just broke down and put a server case together for my puter. I think there are now about thirty seperate partitions and four operating systems on this machine.. ok ok ok.. I'll get back work.. :uhh:
Cheers! Ian.

Oh, spy sweeper isn't a tax either. This is more a case of "selective hearing" I think. Either that or it is purely unintentional they shut it down. They hear about programs running in the backround dragging system resources down so they start shutting stuff down when they notice it's slow. What they really ought to do is instead of hitting "no" when spysweeper asks them if they want it to perform a sweep in response to detected spyware is hit "yes", or simply have it quarentine the detected item at very least. That way the items that ARE dragging the system resources down are the ones that get cannexed.

I think I might have to sit them down and just teach them a few things if I can maintain their interest for long enough. If it's an unwanted discussion they won't pay much attention anyway. No, they aren't ADD, just boys. Multiply this behavior by 1000, add in an earnest attempt to absorb the material anyway inspite of the lack of interest and you'd get me. :-) Of course with computers I do have an interest, even if it ain't what it used to be.

I remember a couple of years back we were sitting in my shop drooling over a parts catologue because one of the server build options would have let us put together a machine with a good many Gig of RAM. Yes, I said RAM. I know not unusual for a server, but we had no intention of using it as a server. Not in a "traditional network" anyway. :-D We had pictures dancing about in our heads of multiple such machines, a high bandwidth network backbone, and multi-player shootem up matches on the latest incarnations of first person shooter games. ;-) We had a lab, and enough guys with the interest and personal gear that we did assemble our own private networks just about every underway. Sometimes we had to show the higher ups that we were not connected to the main network in any way shape or form, had no outside connectivity, were not utilizing any government property and the like, and that we were utilizing said resource on our own time, of course. It was just too much for many of them to believe we could be that resourceful. Personally, I just think they wanted to play too. ;-)

You know Ian, I have forgotten so much stuff it is depressing.... It all comes back to you though.

No children here, no worries

As of yesterday.... kids are grounded from the computer. As I always do on Sunday, took the mouse to church with me. Told them no way were they to get on the computer.

Well I got home and guess what>>>>> my youngest had found another mouse and got on the computer anyway. They are all in trouble because they all knew the rules and the older ones did nothing to stop her from doing so.

Last time she got on the computer, things were downloaded and I had to clean up 8 files that got infected, hence my reasoning for no computer while I am gone.

So...now they've lost computer time for 2 weeks. If it happens again, I'll be taking away the games that they are looking for cheats for on those web-sites. Or worst case scenario, I'll block the web-sites.

You know what's funny that I was just thinking of? PC's are reasonably portable. I'm not that bad of a carpenter. Maybe, big maybe as I think of more projects than I will ever get to, I could build a lockable cabinet with a built in blower, air filters, a nice tight tolerance compartment for the PC chasis itself with a false back just in front of the actual back to provide cable exits outside the ventilated area of the cabinet. It could have a wide heavy drawer directly under the keyboard tray for keyboard and mouse storage, also with a heavy lock. A key to the wife and to myself for the key rings and in the event that the computer is off limits, it is really off limits. That would include all the software on disk, ect in the drawers of the cabinet as well, of course.

This might seem a lot of trouble, but it really isn't once in place. It's old fashioned, simple, effective and allows one the luxury of knowing that if you for one minute think anyone's trying to pull a fast one you can nip it in the bud. This is exactly the sort of thing my father would have had to do to me. Of course, my children are, as I said much better behaved than I ever was as child. Oh, I wasn't a mean or evil hearted child. Just very curious, very energetic, and I had a tendency to act first and think of consequences later. Quite frankly, it's a miracle I lived through childhood. I wasn't killed by any of my escapades, or my long suffering parents. Truly enough to make on reflect on the presence of a higher power in the universe.

It would take me less than two minutes to completely render the kids access dead. Simple Simon.. ;^) "root" is god on these machines.

I'm so lucky not to have battles over internet access with the kids. They aren't big gamers except for a bit of solitaire and mine sweepers and such.

I will likely get myself a kick in the head if I keep badgering this point but that's not anything new.. heh

Linux makes this type of "denial of service" so so simple. I can even put it on a timer to undo the lock on their accounts in two weeks if need be.

I'm not a big fan of games. It seems like the same people who are vulnerable to television are doubly likely to sit dumbfounded at a computer screen for hours. It make me uncomfortable to see the depth with which kids and adults get hooked up with addictive games.

Opinion monster. Ian.

Ian..that is why you are so fun to have around. :D I am not however a computer expert.. I don't know how to do all the technical stuff you guys are talking about. I can do a web-page block though if need be.

p.s. I like the saying at bottom of your posts.

Thanks Mary for your compliments.

If you code web pages there is nothing to fear in Linux. Unlike M$ products the documentation is meant to learn from and the support forums are amazing although they might slap you a bit if the answer is in plain sight.. lol

this is a funny topic. interesting ideaz to learn. :)
:) :) :)
Paul

Oh come on now bnsforu2... eheh you can't bail out that smoothly.. lol! Dig in and take a swing at it! eheh
Cheers my man.

Ian,

I haven't really involved myself in games for years. Not really sure why. Too mucy of a time killer when I have trouble managing it in the first place maybe.

They aren't all bad though. Three dimensional real time strategy when the engine is good and the games are reduced to build order is a real thinking person's game, without the luxury of being able to take your time to think. First person shooters have proven so useful in teaching tactical principals that both the marine corps and army have designed simulators based on popular game engines to teach tactics in a class room environment, with "replay" capability before going into field exercise environments.

Both games and television can be quite educational. Of course my favorite telelvision stations are Discovery channel, History channel, and Civilization channel... Yeah, I'm boring like that. I'm also a big fan of Sir David Attenborrough and his documentaries with the BBC. That man has done some truly compelling and educational work in television. I really like Robert Burke's stuff too though. Comes in really handy trying to interest my kids in science. He used to do a show on the BBC called "The day The Universe Changed", and a column in Scientific American called "Connections". He's a science historian and he can tie so many things together in such interesting ways it's just amazing. Perfect for explaining to children why science in important because I can use examples such as how the materials their skate boards are made of would not exist if not for such and such who also did such and such who was in turn responsible for this and that... No I was not prepared for this example... You get the general idea though. He would find a way to connect their algebra homework to their skateboards. It would be valid too.

You don't sound like one of those people that go brain dead in front of any CRT though.. There is a lot of decent material on TV and the internet if we have the discipline to put the good stuff in front of ourselves. Some do.. some don't.

I'm not so sure kids of such young ages need to be so skilled in the finer tactics of killing as many of the games teach.
Just a thought. Ian.

Not discipline for me Ian. Interest driven brain. I like Natural history, human history, and documentaries.

I hadn't really been thinking of children when I brought those games up... I guess Marines are kind of child like though... Only bigger and not as likeable. ;-)

Seriously though I don't think implied or pretend violence is really the issue it is made out to be. I have seen the reactions of "Today's kids" so supposedly jaded by horror movies, video games, and the like to video and photographs shown in schools of the holocaust. They don't respond as though they've been desensitized. They respond as though they just got the rug yanked out from under them.

I'm not saying that exposing children to such things on a wholesale basis is good, or any kind of basis for that matter. I just think it is ridiculous to blame our societies problems on something like video games when so many of our children are raising themselves in gang and drug infested neighborhoods with real violence and death around them all day long.

Still, you are right. My rant is aimed more at the Evangelicals who scream about video games on one hand, but frequent prostitutes with congregational funds on the other.

"I drank what?" ~Socrates as quoted by Val Kilmer in the movie "Real Genius"
==============================
ok ok i must say i love this quote. makes me laugh a lot.
drink drank drunk<--a game that probably got me in trouble in college
=====================================
kids today are different. the computer is like.....
a ....well it is everything to kids today, homework,
library, communication, go toto dance club, instead of
what's your phon number to a potential date, it's can i get your email.
==================================
the simpler the better is what i prefer. easy said
than done.
============================
with smart kids and programming,
i would haveto ask my pc tech guy
about the easiest way to keep safe surfing
etc.
=========================
using someone elses expertness
is the best advice i was told once.
============================
on the note of video games, i know i can get dragged into
them and tv too.
but i know my time is worth more than that.
===================
teaching others whats imprtant with our time is the issue

paul :)

Yeah, the movie wasn't oscar material, but that quote has been rolling around my head for years now...

I do some of my best work under pressure. Of course, when I am overwhelmed I can't seem to do much of anything productively... Fortunately for me I have found the things I am best at and am transitioning. In the mean time it's COPE COPE COPE. Ah well, life wouldn't be much fun if you always knew what to expect...

Yeah, I think when I'm done with the Navy, I'm getting away from electronics altogether and going into psychology. Politics is entertaining too, but if I was ever to consider it as a profession I'd have to take it more seriously and then I'd end up having a stroke or something. ;-)

My daughter connected an old computer and accessed the internet that way... who knew??? If only she would put this energy toward school....