View Full Version : ADHD rights movement?


matsuiny2004
10-23-08, 12:06 AM
Are there other people on this site that would like a neurodiversity view of ADHD?

blueroo
10-23-08, 02:19 PM
What rights are you looking for?

GL3NE
10-23-08, 06:19 PM
I have always felt a sense of alienation in social environments, in school, and at work because of my behavior due to ADHD.

I believe that better awareness and a stricter form of diagnosis would certainly help people, especially those who have gone overlooked for too long.

I am currently trying to work with my school advisors and councelors in hopes that my professors will cut me some slack until my ADHD and depression are fully treated.

However, it's extremely common for people to blame ADD or ADHD for their faults, and jokingly use it to explain their behavior. These are the people who do not have ADHD. This also applies to college students who abuse Adderall to study for exams.

I would personally love to be a part of an ADHD awareness group. It is a much more serious condition than people make it out to be.

- Glen

matsuiny2004
10-26-08, 04:18 AM
What rights are you looking for?

I think they should see that there are strengths in ADHDers and that we can improve are weaknesses, but that does not mean we are cured. Michael phelps is an olympic swimmer and he does not even take ritalin. There are many usefull traits. We have our challenges other people do too, but can we have our strenghts and contributions recognized as well and maybe more than the weaknesses?

matsuiny2004
10-26-08, 04:20 AM
I have always felt a sense of alienation in social environments, in school, and at work because of my behavior due to ADHD.

I believe that better awareness and a stricter form of diagnosis would certainly help people, especially those who have gone overlooked for too long.

I am currently trying to work with my school advisors and councelors in hopes that my professors will cut me some slack until my ADHD and depression are fully treated.

However, it's extremely common for people to blame ADD or ADHD for their faults, and jokingly use it to explain their behavior. These are the people who do not have ADHD. This also applies to college students who abuse Adderall to study for exams.

I would personally love to be a part of an ADHD awareness group. It is a much more serious condition than people make it out to be.

- Glen
I think the stigma is another part. It is some assumed that needing help is bad and that there is something wrong with you for needing it. It is like behaving differently makes you defective.

blueroo
10-27-08, 12:52 AM
I think they should see that there are strengths in ADHDers and that we can improve are weaknesses, but that does not mean we are cured. Michael phelps is an olympic swimmer and he does not even take ritalin. There are many usefull traits. We have our challenges other people do too, but can we have our strenghts and contributions recognized as well and maybe more than the weaknesses?

This all sounds great, but it doesn't have much to do with rights. What is your goal? What rights need to be protected?

Black Razor
10-28-08, 01:56 AM
I think this is long overdue. Even though ADHD is protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act there is still a tremendous amount of obstacles left to overcome. I fully support your concept of a neurodiversity movement. The concept of normalcy is far to ostracizing, and it hurts many people. I blame the idea of "normal" in part for the overdiagnosis in children.

As I have said before, I am studying to be a pyschologist. I believe my colleagues are blind to the concept of neurodiversity as ironic as might seem. The logic seems to be that even though human beings are different, the brain somehow must be mostly the same just like most people have two arms and two legs, etc.

What I believe is still ahead of all of us is the battle to educate the public. Howie Mandel for example has started to make it known to the public (at least in the states) how many people may have ADD/ADHD. The public service announcement states that nearly ten million people in america may have ADD/ADHD. (The number is taken from a 4.4% assumed rate of the population)

What I have found to be the case recently in fighting my own battles for my rights is that its difficult to really protect your own rights. For example, if you learn about the ADA its illegal to fire someone for something related to their disability, such as missing deadlines in the case of ADHD. Now the tricky part is that you first have to be diagnosed with ADD/ADHD before you are hired and tell your employer before they agreed to hire you. If they agree to hire you then they cant fire you for it.

This is problematic because it forces a person to reveal their personal psychological status, much like a person with AIDS being legally forced to disclose their status. While the law may protect a person technically, its VERY difficult to prove the law in your favor when your fired. Also, its VERY difficult to get hired because of the stigmas people still have in regards to ADD. Most people think it just means you can't pay attention or finish tasks. Most people dont understand the intricate complexities of neurological disorders such as ADD, which by all means most psychologists dont even understand.

So, bringing myself back to my point. YES, we need to fight for neurodiversity. Having ADD doesn't mean that we can't do a job or that we are disabled in a bad way, it means we are DIFFERENT.

We need to start educating the general public about what ADD really is and how it affects each person in a different way. That to me is a very important task that I look forward to fighting my entire career.

*exhale*

Ok, comments?

meadd823
10-28-08, 02:47 AM
Are there other people on this site that would like a neurodiversity view of ADHD?


matsuiny2004 People on this site have access to a neurodiversity view as well as a main stream view members even have access to perspectives that believe having ADD means we are one step up in the evolutionary ladder . Individuals are allowed to see their ADD in what ever manner they so choose.


Perspective is some thing people decide to have it is by no means some thing that should be forced up on any one.

A few years back myself and some other members had several long drawn out debate threads with members of main stream "ADD disorder" point of view who felt we should be silenced

What emerged is the ADDF we have now - where some see ADD as a disorder some as a gift and others as a neurodiversity Periodically discussions get passionate but no longer is one group trying to silence the other.

All perspectives enjoy equal rights to their expression under identical guidelines.

Personally I do not have a strict neurodiverse point of view I have a modified neurodiverse perspective. I believe in medication if the individual needs it to function in this society.


I do how ever believe that despite the availability of medication that diversity tolerance should be a social goal. I am starting this movement beginning with myself.

Zerbinetta
10-28-08, 06:13 PM
Finally, a thread I may have something to contribute to! I spent the summer as a research assistant, studying the effects of recent disability rights legislation in the Netherlands. The experience opened my eyes to disability as an identity issue, and I fully intend to do whatever I can to finally get Disability Studies off the ground in this country.

First of all, Black Razor, where did you get your information on disclosure? As I understand it, if there is no need for accommodations during the application and interviewing process, applicants are not required to disclose at all (http://career-advice.monster.com/workers-with-disabilities/workers-with-disabilities/When-to-Reveal-a-Disability/home.aspx). I believe it is actually illegal for an employer to inquire about disabilities directly.

Matsuiny2004 makes a very good point when he observes that "it is like behaving differently makes you defective." That's how the dynamic between majorities or dominant groups and minorities or marginalised groups generally works. The trick is to get people to acknowledge that divergence from the norm does NOT entail inferiority, and that attempts at assimilating the "different" individual to make him or her "normal" are NOT the way to go.

The first step is a change of perspective. Think of a web site, for instance, that has important information on it, and a flashy layout that makes it incompatible with software that converts text to sound or braille. Now, think of someone who needs the information on that website, and who happens to have a visual disability. Very few people would consider the user's disability to be the problem here; it's the website that is inaccessible to a specific group of users.

That's the perspective we need: when standard procedure does not work for a certain type of person, this means the standard simply does not work for everyone it's supposed to work for. It's standard procedure, then, that needs to be adjusted, not the individual that it cannot accommodate.

As I've posted elsewhere on this board, the prevalence rate of 4-5% means that in a given group of 20 to 25 people (an office department, a class), there's likely to be only one person with AD/HD. The key to disability rights in our case, I believe, is to create an awareness of the fact that yes, we may only be a small minority, but we're a valid alternative to what is generally considered to be the norm.

We have a right to be part of society, just the way we are. A society that does not have room for everyone is simply not big enough.

blueroo
10-29-08, 04:48 AM
Again, this is all well and good.

But what exactly do you want to change? Are you simply advocating for more ADHD awareness? Special rules for people with ADHD? What?

ferdinan
10-29-08, 10:49 AM
I believe in stricter guidelines in the testing to diagnosis someone with ADHD. I went through an entire day of intense testing before any treatments were considered, and I hear about college students just going to the college medical department and saying "I have trouble concentrating" and they get scripts for medication! That makes me a little upset. I would really like to see stricter guidelines.

Black Razor
10-30-08, 04:59 PM
I believe in stricter guidelines in the testing to diagnosis someone with ADHD. I went through an entire day of intense testing before any treatments were considered, and I hear about college students just going to the college medical department and saying "I have trouble concentrating" and they get scripts for medication! That makes me a little upset. I would really like to see stricter guidelines.

I agree 100%. Especially as someone studying to be a mental health professional. ADD diagnosis is too varying, the American Medical Association can't even agree on a diagnosis criteria. I'm not saying it would be easy, but I agree that there should be more than just a visit to some clinic before getting diagnosed. ADHD is not to be taken lightly, it can cripple someone, and worse students that do this cause rampant inflation of research statistics and give us a bad name.

blueroo
10-31-08, 03:51 PM
1) Please show the numbers that prove "rampant inflation" of statistics.

2) What is this "bad name" you are referring to? How is it hurting us?

matsuiny2004
11-02-08, 06:44 AM
I am realizing that it is more a change in perspective of how ADHD is seen that I want to change, not the actual laws. I do wish their was a right to be differnt or diverge from the norm. I am so tired of the hype people put into a child being impulsive, having difficutly concentrating, daydreaming, etc. Many of those traits can be positive depending on the context, but in a rigid school environment that is most likeley the case. The UK is much further ahead than the US in terms of learning difficulties/differences. The have governemnt run campaign on the acceptance of learning difficulties. In the US it hard to even be seen as different. There are plenty of studies and experiments that show we are completely capable of learning and being successful. We can use are strenghts and oddites to help towards that success. I ahve even found a way to make mundane chores more appealing to ADHDers like me. One was to create a randomly timed schedule so I would have to do a chore in certain day, but the time I would be given was random each day. I came up with other alternative methods such as turning chores into a game an example would be trying to do the dishes as fast as possibly can, and at other time using my chores as excercise to stimulate my creativity. I have even found studies that say ADHDers can improve their abilites and weakenesses by taking fishoilds (omega 3's) which the study says are actually supposed to help people in general regardless of ADHD diagnosis or not and excercise which I already mentioned. Those both helped average children and ADHDers. Alhtough there are no guarantess for all cases it is worth trying. As far as actual diagnosis goes I think it should be done by brain scan since behavior can be very subjective and it has been shown by harvard students that if provoked in certain ways an animal can behave however it pleases. I think brain scans would definetly cut back the overdiagnosis, creation, and underdiagnosis of certain conditons including ADHD.

matsuiny2004
11-02-08, 06:45 AM
As for what psychiatry can do to change I think it should learn from postpsychiatry which puts much more emphasis on social and cultural contexts than sysmptoms and behavior.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7288/724

I learned in my anthropology class that there are many different ways structuring a society besides hierarchy. There is heterarchy, responsible autonomy, and holarchy as far as I know. Heterarchies are simmilar to the social structure hunter gather cultures used to use. They are more helpful for organizations or people that want focus more on innovation and creativity and not have to worry about money and class status.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterarchy

blueroo
11-02-08, 07:08 AM
I am realizing that it is more a change in perspective of how ADHD is seen that I want to change, not the actual laws. I do wish their was a right to be differnt or diverge from the norm. I am so tired of the hype people put into a child being impulsive, having difficutly concentrating, daydreaming, etc. Many of those traits can be positive depending on the context, but in a rigid school environment that is most likeley the case. The UK is much further ahead than the US in terms of learning difficulties/differences. The have governemnt run campaign on the acceptance of learning difficulties. In the US it hard to even be seen as different. There are plenty of studies and experiments that show we are completely capable of learning and being successful. We can use are strenghts and oddites to help towards that success. I ahve even found a way to make mundane chores more appealing to ADHDers like me. One was to create a randomly timed schedule so I would have to do a chore in certain day, but the time I would be given was random each day. I came up with other alternative methods such as turning chores into a game an example would be trying to do the dishes as fast as possibly can, and at other time using my chores as excercise to stimulate my creativity. I have even found studies that say ADHDers can improve their abilites and weakenesses by taking fishoilds (omega 3's) which the study says are actually supposed to help people in general regardless of ADHD diagnosis or not and excercise which I already mentioned. Those both helped average children and ADHDers. Alhtough there are no guarantess for all cases it is worth trying. As far as actual diagnosis goes I think it should be done by brain scan since behavior can be very subjective and it has been shown by harvard students that if provoked in certain ways an animal can behave however it pleases. I think brain scans would definetly cut back the overdiagnosis, creation, and underdiagnosis of certain conditons including ADHD.

So far, I have not seen any scientific data that suggests there is overdiagnosis in the United States or anywhere else. While there will always be some mis-diagnosis, there simply isn't any evidence of over-diagnosis.

Brain scan tests would be lovely, except for the fact that they don't exist. There is no way to scan any specific individual and determine whether they do or do not have ADHD. Dr. Amen claims otherwise, but his results are not peer reviewed, have never been independently verified, depend on numerous assumptions and presumptions, and are therefor suspect.

I heartily advocate awareness. I do not advocate reorganizing society to cater to our needs when we are perfectly capable of reorganizing ourselves. Logistically, socially, philosophically, rationally... we simple can not justify dictating how 300 million people will live their lives just so the 10 million of us with ADHD don't have to try harder to fit in. No person with ADHD was ever helped by being handed a social crutch. Humans are social creatures, and it is up to us to maintain some level of conformity within that society.

I'm still not convinced that you know exactly what you want. You want advocacy, but believe we already over-diagnose. You want children with ADHD to shine, but want to remove the structure they need to do so. You have a feeling that something is not right, and I agree with you, but you still haven't figured out exactly what it is. I encourage you to keep thinking about this and figuring out what exactly it is that needs to be changed or improved.

matsuiny2004
11-02-08, 07:18 PM
So far, I have not seen any scientific data that suggests there is overdiagnosis in the United States or anywhere else. While there will always be some mis-diagnosis, there simply isn't any evidence of over-diagnosis.

Brain scan tests would be lovely, except for the fact that they don't exist. There is no way to scan any specific individual and determine whether they do or do not have ADHD. Dr. Amen claims otherwise, but his results are not peer reviewed, have never been independently verified, depend on numerous assumptions and presumptions, and are therefor suspect.

I heartily advocate awareness. I do not advocate reorganizing society to cater to our needs when we are perfectly capable of reorganizing ourselves. Logistically, socially, philosophically, rationally... we simple can not justify dictating how 300 million people will live their lives just so the 10 million of us with ADHD don't have to try harder to fit in. No person with ADHD was ever helped by being handed a social crutch. Humans are social creatures, and it is up to us to maintain some level of conformity within that society.

I'm still not convinced that you know exactly what you want. You want advocacy, but believe we already over-diagnose. You want children with ADHD to shine, but want to remove the structure they need to do so. You have a feeling that something is not right, and I agree with you, but you still haven't figured out exactly what it is. I encourage you to keep thinking about this and figuring out what exactly it is that needs to be changed or improved.

The DSM itself is subjective it is just as accurate as a brainscan and there are some differences compared to the average brain and there are genetic differences too. I think society should give ADHDers some accomodation. It is not about conformity yes we may need to make compromise, but I do not see conformity is being related. In general society needs to rerganized it is not just for ADHD people, but variation in general. I did not meant ADHD I meant in general although it would be hard to measure anyway. I do not understand what structure you are talking about nor what they need. I would say academic support an acceptance can help very much so I do not understand what you mean social crutch. Society causes disability for many as does culture. It is not dictating and it is not just ADHD people that are part of these changes and yes you could justify reorganizing society especially when it is just not ADHD people that would want to do it. Many of those concepts have already been used to create societies and they were not created by ADHD people. I agree with the hunter farmer hypothesis and the more I look at it the more evidence there is for it.

Black Razor
11-02-08, 08:56 PM
BlueRoo, whats your deal? You seem a little jaded to one side of the topic. Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would like to know WHY you are so adamant about proving your case. I will also concede that you make some very plausible and valid points, however, please try to speak for yourself instead of other ADDers.

I will find the statistics to prove what I said about rampant overdiagnosis. It's been a while since I read the article is was in. It wasn't random chatter.

Now for the "bad name" I was referencing was the concept of college students who do not need ritalin claiming that they can not concentrate in school. While in reality they are looking for a legal way to get ahold of speed legally. You are obviously the type of person who will demand proof of this, so for your convenience look here:

Article from the New York Times.
http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/08/05.php

and this one from The Chronicle of Higher Education
http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/bousquet/ritalin-generation-2

I will "gladly" provide more proof if this isnt enough for you. :cool:

matsuiny2004
11-02-08, 10:20 PM
BlueRoo, whats your deal? You seem a little jaded to one side of the topic. Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would like to know WHY you are so adamant about proving your case. I will also concede that you make some very plausible and valid points, however, please try to speak for yourself instead of other ADDers.

I will find the statistics to prove what I said about rampant overdiagnosis. It's been a while since I read the article is was in. It wasn't random chatter.

Now for the "bad name" I was referencing was the concept of college students who do not need ritalin claiming that they can not concentrate in school. While in reality they are looking for a legal way to get ahold of speed legally. You are obviously the type of person who will demand proof of this, so for your convenience look here:

Article from the New York Times.
http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/08/05.php

and this one from The Chronicle of Higher Education
http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/bousquet/ritalin-generation-2

I will "gladly" provide more proof if this isnt enough for you. :cool:

Have you read about postpsychiatry? It is more in the direction you seem to be going.

these links should give you an idea

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7288/724

4rch0n4n6313
07-29-15, 10:46 AM
The research that I am pursuing. (mostly after both kids are in grade school), consists of finding biological indicators for the diagnosis of mental illness, or neurodiversity.

I was 30 before I was diagnosed with ADHD because I didnt have the "bouncing all over the room" symptoms, I was overweight, and I was a girl. I always tried really really hard, because I wanted to do well in school. Teachers would think that I just didnt do my homwork, when day after day I would do it, then put it in my backpack, and have no idea where it was. I would search and search and it would be nowhere to be found. I couldnt get get along with my peers very well because they all said I was weird. So, I didnt have any friends.

When I was 14 I started running away from home and self harming. My mother refused to give me any sort of medication. I was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, though my doctor confided I may have adhd/depressive. (this was a live in facility). I as always getting into trouble, no matter how hard I tried to be good, no matter how I tried to control my behavior, I would either misunderstand the intentions of a rule, forget it completely, or get emotionally overwhelmed.

Once I became an adult I was put on every bi-polar and depressive drug known to man. That stuff changed me permanently, and it is still very very difficult to want to do much of anything that doesnt give me that "rush". If a proffessors style of teaching doesnt give me that "rush" I drop them, because I know I wont get more than a c in that class. A class can be harder and more rigourous, but if the teaching style gives me a rush, Ill get an A.

Im trying to keep a consistent line of thought here, I havent taken my meds (nor do I really want to right now, cause im sick of them atm) I think the point I am trying to make is it took me 31 years to finally have a reason for all my failures in life. I have often laughed at the akwardness of a situation and explained my behavior by saying I have ADD.

But believe me, the consistent feelings of doom and despair, because my dreams are so just out of reach...Every time I psych myself up and get into a "routine" and something throws an acme sized monkey wrench ON IT...its real. If I could be anything else I would be.

Maybe I am at this point where I am wallowing, and ask me a week from now and Ill tell you just keep trying, and it will get better.

I do get that there are people who dont have ADD that are really flippant about the whole thing. But I think that those of us, who cannot hide that we have ADD, no matter how many sticky notes we bury ourselves in..we warn people out of consideration, because we know we are going to do something major to make someone mad, and have no idea that we did anything unwieldy.

Or little things will add up...it seems the harder I try, the worse I feel when I fail. I cant hide my ADD, I can change a few things here and there and act anything like anyone else....not because I dont want to...but because...no matter how I try, I dont fit in. At least now I feel like its the ADDs fault and not my own defectiveness....which I know its the same..but..it feels different to say its the ADDs fault, because then its about managing ADD. When its just my fault...I dont know how to manage me...

ADXP
07-29-15, 08:34 PM
I would like to see ADD/ADHD listed on the SSA guidelines as disabling. My diagnosis stems from the Traumatic Brain Injury as a child. I was struck with a telephone pole when I was in 2nd grade & lost consciousness for 5 days. My parents never thought that that accident have destroyed my life. The shrink who was treating me for depression asks me if something happen to me when I was a child . And I showed him the 3 inches long scar in the left frontal lobe of my head. He prescribed me a meds added to the SSRIs & I have no clue what it was for. Dextrostat. This is in 2006. I never realize until 2008 why I am taking this meds. So I begin to investigate about it.

The symptoms of my injury did not really appear until I was 15 yrs. old. I never realize that everything I do is backwards. I read backwards. Becoz the other half of my brain is dead , the other half compensates. When it compensates my mind becomes a razor sharp mechanism. I can utilized both hands. And becoz I do things backwards I always see first the result than the process therefore I can predict what is the pros & cons right of the bat.

I am at the mercy of this medication becoz of this injury. The meds have changed the quality of my life for the best. If such a disorder requires medications to alleviate the symptoms which alters the quality of life of that person that is sufficient to call it as a disabling disease or disorder.