hi just wondered if any one has experienced problems with long term use of prescription painkillers and psuedo ephedrine addictions i have self medicated for about 15 years without realising i was medicating an ADD problem, and certain emotional issues. it seems now though its actually making my add problems worse, causing me to do ridiculous things from total confusion, my family is starting to look concerned,cause i just seem in such a haze, not remembering something ive just done, its worsse than its ever been in the past, but im still having trouble kicking the habits, as ive relied on them so long, i am now worried that i have caused some neurological problems, I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has experienced this, and whether the problem went away after withdrawal, or whether this is a permanant problem ? kindest regards Whitestripes x

Hey whitestripesfan. Long-term use of opiates definitely causes the effects you describe. I had a friend who started with a script for vicodin that seemed to steadily increase until he jumped over to oxycodone and up to oxycontin. He eventually needed to get methadone to help get off it (although that takes MUCH longer to detox off of itself, so suboxone might possibly be a better option if this is still an issue for you. I am not qualified to make that call or even recommend this kind of thing. Remember that methadone takes MONTHS to get out of you as opposed to WEEKS for most opiates.) and he also had some 'haze' and 'confusion' kinds of issues. He'd tell me that everything was really 'overwhelming' (even minor things that he would normally do without a second thought like cleaning house, washing car, and making food in a row would be too much for him) and it basically exacerabated his ADHD significantly. A frat kind of dude I met once had only used recreationally and definitely didn't have ADHD of any type but still had those effects after a month-long oxycontin bender. (DO NOT DO THIS PLEASE. OPIATES MAKE YOU SERIOUSLY DEPRESSED)

To explain opiate addiction in understandable terms (for other forum-goers not experienced), your body down-regulates the amount you have in your body, making every ache, pain, etc hurt much more due to lack of naturally occuring aka endogenous opioids. It's the exact inverse feeling to having a nice large thanksgiving dinner. You know that warm, fuzzy, happy feeling kind of like a runner's high? That's an endogenous opiate release. You know that feeling of loss (like losing a limb) when a family member or pet dies or a girl/boyfriend of years is out of your life? That's what opiate addicts deal with constantly.

Back to your questions, Whitestripesfan:
You have also been using these drugs as a coping mechanism for emotional issues in your life. That sounds to a big reason you can't get rid of these things. Of course the physical withdrawal is the primary effect, but if you taper your dose down slowly and intelligently and, most importantly STICK TO THE PLAN (make sure you have a calender written up with days and mg counts for your opiates and have a 'cut-off' date that you HAVE to quit by.) If the knowledge of impending pain if you cannot taper responsibly cannot keep you from binging you really need to seriously consider professional medical help. It's not shameful at all, in fact it's the strongest thing you can do: indentify when you can't help yourself anymore and get that help. It may hurt but don't let that option fall off your radar, in the long run you and your family will thank you for it.

You need to consider your coping abilities. What do you do when you get into a fight with your parents/significant other? If the answer is ingest chemicals, whether it's opiates, alcohol, or smoking cannabis, then that is a dependence issue. You'll need to change the way you think so that you can deal with these yourself. Perhaps you have an anxiety issue you are attempting to self-medicate? Much of the time people 'self-medicate' they KNOW they have a problem and just don't want to look bad for asking. I have done that for years and had to ask for help. Now that I have I wouldn't ever look back: my old life was a waste of time covering for a problem I didn't need to have. Don't waste any more time out of your life! Start figuring on your exit strategy. You probably do have neurological damage, but DON'T let that stop you. It's *NOT* a case of "oh well too bad so sad can't help it now". That's self-sabotaging thinking. Your body and mind are the toughest self-healing machines we know of. You WILL heal yourself if you undertake the effort seriously and intently. Opiate withdrawals just seriously jack up your HTPA axis in your body responsible for moods and sleeping schedules and all kinds of other stuff. Not a technical explanation but that's effectively what's going on. My friend above is totally clean since the beginning of this year after MAJOR opiate addiction for 5 years. He was almost non-functional the first two weeks but since then he has steadily improved and about 3 months in he seemed totally fine and at 6 months told me he felt 'totally back to normal in every way' (direct quote). The problems DEFINITELY go away, but DEFINITELY stay with continued use of heavy opiates. Downers just slow your system down. They may feel good at first because you don't notice as much **** in your life, but ignoring problems won't make them go away.

I applaud you for being courageous enough to start stopping. I can't imagine how you feel right now but rest assured you CAN and WILL heal your body and mind. You just have to keep up the effort!

P.S. That pseudoephedrine stuff is nowhere near as effective and way worse on your cardiovascular/pulmonary system than ADHD medication would be. The ADHD meds will help with AT LEAST half of your symptoms described. If you want to see some interesting but not-completely-industry-approved studies, look up Dr. Amen. He has a clinic where he runs scans on people's brains. In his book, "Heal Your Body, Heal Your Mind", he shows pictures of people who have used all kinds of drugs. Opiates cause a kind of 'scalloping' effect on the brain over time, but that doesn't mean you're a drug-addled junkie or anything. The long-term heroin user was, IIRC, a geneticist at a biotech firm. They also showed pictures of people with ADHD who used their medications for six months and they typically went from having patchy-looking prefrontal cortexes (which make executive decisionmaking and planning extremely hard and is what most drugs do to your brain in addition to everything else they do) to having almost normal SPECT scans. Keep up hope and talk to your doctors about getting the medicaiton you need. There is NOTHING wrong with asking to be tapered off these horribly addicting drugs you have been scripted (it's all for medical use so it's also their responsibility as far as I know) and that doesnt' necessarily have to mean the 'scary junkie drugs' (TOTALLY incorrect for the record, urban legend) like methadone and suboxone. Maybe you just need to get a dose less 5mg every two weeks for the next few months or whatever.

To sum it up: the symptoms you experience are typical for somebody with that term of useage. I'm not sure what doses or drugs we're talking about but ANY amount over ten years will have an effect. You also sound like you should talk to your doctor about ADHD medications. Those may altogether remove the majority of your problem as it did for many (most, if not all, if anecdotal evidence from this forum is any indicator) of us self-medicating with alcohol, cannabis, cocaine, benzodiazepenes, opiates, or what-have-you. Those are NOT the most effective in short- OR long-term. I can almost guarantee total turnaround once you are properly treated and on a maintenance/taper program with the opiates as I have seen the SAME EXACT pattern of useage and recovery with a number of friends of mine. It's hard work but it's TOTALLY worth it, you can finally have what you want: your sanity and intelligence back. The ONLY caveat: DON'T GIVE UP! This is for your sake and your family's sake and your girlfriend's sake and your dog's sake and your best friend's sake. They're all rootin' for ya! Stick to it and you'll be the person you know you are in no time. Godspeed and good luck! You're already halfway there. Now for the time investment. Think of it like job training for a new life ;)

that i have caused some neurological problems, I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has experienced this, and whether the problem went away after withdrawal, or whether this is a permanant problem ? kindest regards Whitestripes x

Hi whitestripe.

I've used my fair share of drugs when I was younger so I might be able to help.

With substance abuse, it really comes down to what substances you were using and how long and how frequently you were using them.

What drugs have you been using? how often?

Opiates (painkillers) are acually fairly non-toxic. While you're using them or withdrawing you'll feel like you're in a daze. After you're off them you should be ok. Long term heroin addicts CAN have some problems after they stop such as not being able to get as much enjoyment out of certain things- but this is probably psychological and not physical brain damage.

Most opiate addicts are ok once they've been off them for a while.

Weed - This can make you pretty spacey if you're taking it regularly but once you stop smoking it you'll find you mostly go back to normal. Some memory problems can still stick around.

Cannabis can 'trigger' certain mental illnesses in people that are prone to that type of thing.

Amphetamines - This one can be a bigger problem. If you've abused large amounts of amphetamines this can lead to permanent brain damage. This doesn't mean ex-addicts can't lead a 'happy' life though after they've quit.

The brain is an amazing thing and is incredibly resilient. Chances are you'll be ok, you only mentioned pain killers and ephedrine which don't generally have long lasted permanant effects.

Opiates always made me quick to anger when I was using them. I was the biggest arsehole to my parents while I was using and didn't even really notice it.

Cannabis, dextroamphetamine, methylphenidate, bupropion, ethanol, all these things are not good for us. And me especially, or too.

psuedo ephedrine addictions ??
...is that code for something else or literal?

to answer,

YES.

hi there,, thank you everyone for your replies, i was nt sure anyone would take this seriously,but i had become increasingly worried about my inability to function. thank you also RABIDFERRET99, (LOVE THE NAME!) For the great tips and kind words of encourgement,and also for the book you quoted which i shall be sure to look up, it was so appreciated that you all should take the time out to reply, i think tht though the addiction started off as a means to cope, i am also becoming aware, that some of it has some self destructive element to it. im a little ashamed to say that, but know it has to be admitted to find answers. part of me knows the damage ive done,- i think your right about the pseudo ephedrine ,rabid ferret as ive experienced crazy fast heart rates, bluish colour to my mouth and breathing difficulties - when using too much - i probably at one point did nt care so much though, but since joining this forum, have felt a renewed sense of wanting to live, even thougfh its tenuous at times, so really felt i needed to fess up. and get some advice. thats why i appreciate all your responses. a good friend on this forum has also put me in touch with a reformed addict, and its a really enlightening to be a ble to relate to some one so much. i think thats what has been my probllem in the past, you don't always realise in your isolation, the pain and trials other people have, and this just makes you feel so alone and such a lost cause. so things are changing a little and thats scary, but making me have a little hope. i ve never confessed to my doctor the full extent of my problem, cause i know he would stop the prescriptions,im also using some one else s medication, so am able to get hold of quite a large quantity at a time, im just hoping that i cn get properly diagnosed as you say, so that i can at least stop medicating for something i have little control over. well thank you all again so much,ive greatly appreciated your input, love to ya all whitestripes x

OMG...
...we're add dude, I gotta bust that up to read it.

Lol yeah I got about 10 words out of it and didnt bother reading it.

Yea, that second post was WAY TOO LONG for me to read right now - if that's what you guys are referring to. Or maybe the post that was all jumbled together? I don't have my meds today, so my concentration levels are pretty much ZERO.

Sorry for a thread jack, but what about taking xanax for ten years? What effects on the brain do you think that had? Think it made my ADHD symptoms worse? I can't exactly explain how I feel - feel crazy all the time - hard to explain.

it's in a block....
...no breaks in between.

Ok, thought that's what ya'll meant.

sorry idiot that i am lately. posted the same thing twice DOH!!! very sorry

hey sorry to everyone, i forget to paragraph, sometimes,so very good point, must remember that for next time.lol! love whitestripes x

I can bust it up for you tommorow.
...I'm not on meds either.
LOL!

hi there,,

thank you everyone for your replies, i was nt sure anyone would take this seriously,but i had become increasingly worried about my inability to function.

thank you also RABIDFERRET99, (LOVE THE NAME!) For the great tips and kind words of encourgement,and also for the book you quoted which i shall be sure to look up, it was so appreciated that you all should take the time out to reply, i think tht though the addiction started off as a means to cope, i am also becoming aware, that some of it has some self destructive element to it.



im a little ashamed to say that, but know it has to be admitted to find answers. part of me knows the damage ive done,- i think your right about the pseudo ephedrine ,rabid ferret as ive experienced crazy fast heart rates, bluish colour to my mouth and breathing difficulties - when using too much - i probably at one point did nt care so much though, but since joining this forum, have felt a renewed sense of wanting to live, even thougfh its tenuous at times, so really felt i needed to fess up. and get some advice.


thats why i appreciate all your responses.


a good friend on this forum has also put me in touch with a reformed addict, and its a really enlightening to be a ble to relate to some one so much.


i think thats what has been my probllem in the past, you don't always realise in your isolation, the pain and trials other people have, and this just makes you feel so alone and such a lost cause.


so things are changing a little and thats scary, but making me have a little hope. i ve never confessed to my doctor the full extent of my problem, cause i know he would stop the prescriptions,im also using some one else s medication, so am able to get hold of quite a large quantity at a time, im just hoping that i cn get properly diagnosed as you say, so that i can at least stop medicating for something i have little control over.


well thank you all again so much,ive greatly appreciated your input, love to ya all whitestripes x

LOL - nice!

oh man...
.....you're using someone else's what?

a REFORMED addict? LOL!
.....you mean recovering.....like me?

there's no REFORMED.
...I'll be a meth addict till I die.

If i was'nt, I'd go get some now!! hahaha!

you might need to be hooked up to a drug addicts forum.
...I run a meth recovery forum.
but there's different ones for different addictions.

you mean to tell me you are addicted to cold meds?

uhm, pseudo ephedrine ..... gas station pills?

......or maybe, meth? ....ya just add one oxygen molecule..

that's why i thought it was a code.

white stripes? or white lines?


now i know why that shyt was in a block! LMAO!
....hang on to yourself.

lots of people here frown on doing other people's dope, I mean MEDS.
....that's why they are CONTROLLED....and such a pain in the azz to get.


DO NOT BE ASHAMED....you have already admitted the nature of your wrongs.

...YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

I find myself getting addicted to anything I get my hands on. Even cold meds like you said. I was taking Benadryl or anything with Diphenhydramine to go to sleep - it also seemed to help a little with anxiety. Now I have Ambien and I try to keep that to a minimum.

that would be cross addiction, if you like uppers too.
....you drink too, I bet. ....stay AWAY FROM OPIATES.

your natural tendencies would make you a swell herion addict.

Who me? Yea, I use to drink heavily when taking xanax. I'd drink like a 5th of liquor every other day, as well as throwing beer in the mix. Funny thing, I wouldn't take the xanax unless I had beer or liquor to mix with it - I didn't get the high I was looking for just with the pills. I knew it started to get bad one day when I had some pills accidentally get crushed. I mixed them with a shot of liquor and DOWN THE HATCH it went. Probably had 10mg or so of xanax in the shot. I didn't care though, I just wanted to keep getting high. I lost a lot of friends because of that drug. I shouldn't even be alive right now. I've taken enough to kill an elephant. I was also in several accidents that should have killed me.

I still drink every now and then, not NEARLY as much as before. I'll probably have a couple every now and then. I also loved to take Hydrocodones. I could eat 5-10 of those a day - 10mg.

:rolleyes:

bless your heart..

hi SUZZANNEX just to reply to your question, no its really not code, its the over the pharmacy pseudoephedrine, used for congestion, it has as you probably already know, an amphetamine like quality to it,

This has meant that i have been able to cope with things that before seemed impossible, lifting my depressive moods, making me more energised, and focused, i could go for ages on them. getting tons of stuff done.

however i supose as with any drug you build up a tolerance, so it has little effect now, but i still feel compelled to take it always hoping in vain, it will make me feel better.

this is true also of the codeine pills, and because the pills my doctor prescribes, come with parcetamol, this has started to cause liver function problems, which i know if toxicity levels get too high can result in brain dammage, i suppose this is what i was trying to get at.

maybe some people think im being silly i know they are not street drugs, the only thing that has to be frank stopped me going there, is the fact im a recluse, have considered even what you thought i was saying, in code, i know this is possible from internet research.

but maybe there is something in me that does nt want to totally self destruct, maybe unrealised ambitions, or knowing i would let people down, whatever it is has probably been a saving grace.

so yes it is jusy meds from prescriptions or chemists, but it is the amount and longevity of usage that i think has caused the problem.

i hope this explains the situation better, im a fraid i don't always express myself clearly. so sorry for the confusion.

ps thanks for your help Suzzanne with the right way to write a thread/post, really grateful, hope it looks better, and is nt so offensive to the eye.
if not id be grateful if you d let me know, did nt mean to **** anyone off LOL!
Very sorry .
love whitestripes x

Who me? Yea, I use to drink heavily when taking xanax. I'd drink like a 5th of liquor every other day, as well as throwing beer in the mix. Funny thing, I wouldn't take the xanax unless I had beer or liquor to mix with it - I didn't get the high I was looking for just with the pills. I knew it started to get bad one day when I had some pills accidentally get crushed. I mixed them with a shot of liquor and DOWN THE HATCH it went. Probably had 10mg or so of xanax in the shot. I didn't care though, I just wanted to keep getting high. I lost a lot of friends because of that drug. I shouldn't even be alive right now. I've taken enough to kill an elephant. I was also in several accidents that should have killed me.

I still drink every now and then, not NEARLY as much as before. I'll probably have a couple every now and then. I also loved to take Hydrocodones. I could eat 5-10 of those a day - 10mg.

:rolleyes:

I'll keep it brief: if you replace 'Xanax' and the numeric specifics, that is the story of just about any addiction. I'm sorry you had to go through that. My short-term memory was fragged for a few months after drinking and popping pills like that, but I did way less Xanax... I hated that 'what happened last night?' feeling I got every time. Felt great at the time, but unfortunately it's one of the best ways to mask emotional issues.

Have you considered that you are attempting to self-medicate for anxiety? Every multiple substance abuser I've met was trying to fix one thing or another and ended up attempting to 'fix' their problems with another problem.

Benzodiazepenes are in particular a bad one. Initially, the anxiety disappears. Unfortunately, the rebound after it wears off is twice as bad as before, at least with me.

Withdrawing after a few weeks of non-stop benzos without tapering was worse than heavy opiate withdrawal for me. I was drinking a bottle of gin a night on top of a six pack and bottle of wine, give or take a few. Horrible DT's after the two. I'm sorry to hear, man. I'm glad you're out of that hole!

[Pseudoephedrine] has ... an amphetamine like quality to it ...This has meant that i have been able to cope with things that before seemed impossible, lifting my depressive moods, making me more energised, and focused, i could go for ages on them. getting tons of stuff done.

Could be the opiates (CNS depressant, doesn't help mood, energy, or focus any) and/or ADHD. Amphetamines are prescribed to individuals with ADHD as a front-line medication. Research indicates a strong correlation between low endogenous dopamine levels and ADHD. Both amphetamines and, to a much lesser extent, pseudoephedrine cause the release and prevention of re-uptake of dopamine and norepinephrine. The lack of dopamine can also be attributed to damage incurred by long-term usage of depressants, but the cause doesn't change the physiological diagnosis.
but i still feel compelled to take it always hoping in vain, it will make me feel better.

Habituation, this is the psychological part of the addiction.
this has started to cause liver function problems, which i know if toxicity levels get too high can result in brain dammage, i suppose this is what i was trying to get at.

For liver function, supplement with the herb Milk Thistle (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=milk+thistle&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=). It can substantially help. What quantities are we talking about and what mixture of codeine/APAP? Liver failure can cause toxicity of the blood that leads to the breakdown of the liver and kidneys due to a depletion of the antioxidant Glutathione. You can learn about supplementation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutathione#Supplementation. If you are really concerned about it, get a blood test. If you are within a potentially toxic range, this is what they will do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcysteine#Paracetamol_.28Acetaminophen.29_ove rdose
i know they are not street drugs

Your body doesn't: drugs are drugs. At least you know what's in them. Street drugs quite often only bear slight resemblance to what they are supposed to be. maybe there is something in me that does nt want to totally self destruct, maybe unrealised ambitions, or knowing i would let people down, whatever it is has probably been a saving grace.

Yes, that's YOU in there. Glad you could come out for sun and air. :)

Sending love overseas, no postal service involved, you should feel better already! :)

Withdrawing after a few weeks of non-stop benzos without tapering was worse than heavy opiate withdrawal for me. I was drinking a bottle of gin a night on top of a six pack and bottle of wine, give or take a few. Horrible DT's after the two. I'm sorry to hear, man. I'm glad you're out of that hole!


I was up to 1/3 a whiskey bottle every night when my alcohol addiction was at its worst.

Has anyone heard of folks using alcohol to excess while on SSRIs? (let's be cautious about calling such folks "idiotic" for doing this, because I *might* be one such person...)

Has anyone heard of folks using alcohol to excess while on SSRIs? (let's be cautious about calling such folks "idiotic" for doing this, because I *might* be one such person...)

Absolutely, it's the recreational drug of choice for most of my zoloft-/prozac-/effexor-taking friends. A dopamine release with inhibited monoamine oxidase means much slower breakdown of the 'happy' (and ADHD-deficient) chemical. Self-medication as it is most commonly practiced, don't feel bad. Many of us have been there.

I'll keep it brief: if you replace 'Xanax' and the numeric specifics, that is the story of just about any addiction. I'm sorry you had to go through that. My short-term memory was fragged for a few months after drinking and popping pills like that, but I did way less Xanax... I hated that 'what happened last night?' feeling I got every time. Felt great at the time, but unfortunately it's one of the best ways to mask emotional issues.Yea, I didn't know what a memory was for 10 years. It seemed to get better over the years, but I still sometimes had no idea what happened the night before - hell the whole month actually - time just seem to disappear.


Have you considered that you are attempting to self-medicate for anxiety? Every multiple substance abuser I've met was trying to fix one thing or another and ended up attempting to 'fix' their problems with another problem.Yes, now that I've finally been to a few doctors and have talked with them, I now sit back and think that was the issue. I do have some anxiety issues, not always bad, but can get bad. Sometimes I want to be around people, and sometimes I don't. For instance my girlfriend wants me to go to a Halloween party this week - NO WAY am I doing that. I could never do anything of that sorts. Going anywhere that seems to have a lot of people will keep me away from those places. Weddings, community events, the mall, etc. I've been diagnosed with Bi-polar II and ADHD, they say some of those things can cause my anxiety - I dunno man - I'm kind of lost.


Withdrawing after a few weeks of non-stop benzos without tapering was worse than heavy opiate withdrawal for me. I was drinking a bottle of gin a night on top of a six pack and bottle of wine, give or take a few. Horrible DT's after the two. I'm sorry to hear, man. I'm glad you're out of that hole!Yes! The withdrawal was horrible. I tried quitting one time, cold turkey - I highly advise no one to do this. The withdrawal is HORRIBLE! I basically went into psychosis. I thought everyone was out to get me, my dreams turned into reality. I would imagine things that were actually not there or true. I had extreme paranoia. One day it took me several hours to even leave my apartment because I though someone was outside my door waiting to kill me. I would look through the peep hole and see some guy hiding to the side. The nightmares were horrible as well. I don't think I had any seizures at that time.

I finally went to a pdoc years later and got on some stuff called Chlordiazepoxide. This was used to get me off xanax. It took around 2-3 months for me to finally recover - I did it on my own, no rehab. I had seizures and horrible nightmares. It wasn't nearly as bad as going cold turkey, but it was definitely not a fun experience. I would cry and cry and cry all the time - I was in real pain. I felt very along and it sucked! I did have the help of my Uncle and my Mother, so that was good. Pretty much had no friends though, maybe one or two, but no one wants to be around you when addicted to xanax - anyone that has had problems with this knows what I mean.

I can go on about this, but I've already taken up enough of your guys/gals time. I just want this to be a warning to anyone that is ADHD and has impulse control problems and is maybe thinking about, or going to take a benzo. Be careful, it can become a bad habit before you know it. The body has a problem with building up a tolerance to benzos very easily - this is why it is dangerous. Anxiety sucks and this drug REALLY helps it, but can also destroy your life if not careful. Give your pills to someone that can administer them to you. I got hooked because I use to sell them, so I'd have hundreds on me at a time. I had no control and would eat them ALL!

Thanks for your time guys/gals.

:cool:

Thank you whitestripesfan for opening yourself up and looking for help/advice. I thought what you said and how you said it, was just find! :)

I hope all who read this will either take something of it for themselves or reply in kind to what you are seeking. May there be no, "thread jacking" or inappropriate replys not cool..This is a thread started by you..for that purpose alone..addr68:cool: Again, nice thread. :)