Hi. I am really worried that I may have caused irreversible damage to my brain from amphetamine use. I am crying as I write this..

I would like to thoroughly describe my situation so that you have a complete picture. I do not intend to offend any of you.

I spent my summer mostly studying for a very large multi-subject exam. I was getting scared in the last month leading up to the exam date and so I turned to Adderall XR. In three weeks I consumed 150 mg – averaging about 11 to 13 mg per day (I skipped a few days).
After that period, I abstained for seven days. I took 5 mg a week later and it worked well – the way 10 mg worked towards the end of my “three week cram period”. From that time onwards I've been taking it periodically – there were times I did it for a week straight and times I abstained for a week or two. Since my first three-week-period I've consumed about 170 mg in roughly 69 days. The doses I took in those days have averaged around 8 mg per day. There were two (non-consecutive) days that I did 15 mg.

I am certain that my natural studying abilities have decreased. That is the reason I'm crying now. The only thing I'm not sure of is how greatly my abilities have decreased. When I'm studying upper level biology and chemistry (without Adderall), I do not feel the my learning process occurring as rapidly as it once did. I don't even feel as alert as I'd like to. I'm so terribly worried.

I cannot find literature on studies that represent the specific kinds of conditions I've subjugated myself to. So, if there is anyone who may have any information that can help me (especially studies), or advice, I would immensely appreciate it.

Thank you.

I feel like, before you get to experience medication, that you are so used to coping and not realize how many things your not paying attention to while you're studying, that you aren't as concerned about it or really noticing you're not studying the right way. Also I think it's really hard for us to even study for anything until the last minute or even study at all, i dunno about meds.

You're also going to not really feel alert if you began to experience what it's like to be alert. Why aren't you taking adderall anymore?

If you want the meds to work, you need to take them. Going on and off the meds all the time like that is just messed up. Either take the meds or not and things should improve.

It sounds like you are taking the meds, and they are working when you take them, then you stop taking them and the rebound effect makes things seem worse. Try taking the meds more consistently.


ME :D

Hi. I am really worried that I may have caused irreversible damage to my brain from amphetamine use. I am crying as I write this..

I would like to thoroughly describe my situation so that you have a complete picture. I do not intend to offend any of you.

I spent my summer mostly studying for a very large multi-subject exam. I was getting scared in the last month leading up to the exam date and so I turned to Adderall XR. In three weeks I consumed 150 mg – averaging about 11 to 13 mg per day (I skipped a few days).
After that period, I abstained for seven days. I took 5 mg a week later and it worked well – the way 10 mg worked towards the end of my “three week cram period”. From that time onwards I've been taking it periodically – there were times I did it for a week straight and times I abstained for a week or two. Since my first three-week-period I've consumed about 170 mg in roughly 69 days. The doses I took in those days have averaged around 8 mg per day. There were two (non-consecutive) days that I did 15 mg.

I am certain that my natural studying abilities have decreased. That is the reason I'm crying now. The only thing I'm not sure of is how greatly my abilities have decreased. When I'm studying upper level biology and chemistry (without Adderall), I do not feel the my learning process occurring as rapidly as it once did. I don't even feel as alert as I'd like to. I'm so terribly worried.

I cannot find literature on studies that represent the specific kinds of conditions I've subjugated myself to. So, if there is anyone who may have any information that can help me (especially studies), or advice, I would immensely appreciate it.

Thank you.

That's not "irreversible" damage. It's normal downregulation. If you're that worried, just stop taking adderall and you're be back to normal within a few weeks to a few months.

That's not "irreversible" damage. It's normal downregulation. If you're that worried, just stop taking adderall and you're be back to normal within a few weeks to a few months.

I know that its down regulation and I meant that I'm worried that the down regulation is permanent. I've seen many studies in apes where they meant to replicate doses of low to heavy amphetmine use in humans and demonstrate the effects. The down regulation in the apes was long-term even with low doses.

I will take your advice, though. I cannot allow for this to get any worse than it already has. I will look more into the topic of down regulation.
Thanks.

qazwsx, I take 30 mg of Adderall XR per day, and that's not the maximum amount that a doctor can prescribe per day for a patient. 60 mg is the maximum that can be given to an adult:

http://www.drugs.com/cons/adderall.html

The capsules for both Adderall XR and Adderall are available in 5, 10, 15, 20, and 30 mg strengths.

You're worried because you were taking as high as 15 mg per day? :rolleyes:

I'm not a psychiatrist, but I think your doctor needs to increase your daily dose if in fact you were performing better during your "cram" period.

You also need to take into consideration that your courses are getting harder, and your worrying about whether or not you gave yourself brain damage doesn't help your studying either.

the downreg probably won't last that long.

you also might be noticing only a slightly exaggerated example of what you used to study like before adderall. keep in mind that adderall showed you something you weren't used to, and now your perception has changed.

don't worry. you'll be back to normal shortly without meds, or you can let go your fears and get back to the meds. (if you're ADD.)

also your dose was very low, glad something that low worked for you.

I know that its down regulation and I meant that I'm worried that the down regulation is permanent. I've seen many studies in apes where they meant to replicate doses of low to heavy amphetmine use in humans and demonstrate the effects. The down regulation in the apes was long-term even with low doses.

I will take your advice, though. I cannot allow for this to get any worse than it already has. I will look more into the topic of down regulation.
Thanks.

well I agree with the above poster, about it being exagerrated, but mostly it'll be that you forgot completely of the change. THe thought of what adderall felt like, goes away soon and you're back to fantasy land and very unaware that you're in it.

lol but i'll agree with the down regulation- I've felt like I was completely worthless everyday after I was forced to be diagnosed with depression and no one thjought of giving me some adderall all day- I wouldn't of been so sad. It leaves an imprint on your brain, basically telling you you're smarter than you are in the moment and knowing that-makes it so depressing and a lot harder to pretend to cope.

I know this one time that I got straight A's in english back in 8th grade. I only did it because I wanted to get out of the standard classes and into the honors classes, because I hated the people in the standard ones. After each quarter I would be so exhausted and burnt out, I dont want to know how many times I had to reread pages in novels, but it hurt my eyes so bad lol. Come to think of it, I wonder if that was why I got morning sickness a lot that year.

I took 20mg of Adderal XR for a few days. Yeah, when I stopped it sucked big time. It's called "withdrawal". I had to stop though because it wasn't doing anything for me.

But I wouldn't be worried. Just wait it out a few more days. I think you'll be back to normal. What you took isn't "high doses" of amphetamines. Even the 20mg I took isn't a "high dose". It's medication. They won't prescribe you something that is considered dangerous.

I also want to point out to people that this guy never said whether or not he had ADHD. It seems like he took it for studying.

Hi,
I can't be bothered dealing with the nay sayers on this board. This is not the place to be when you are looking for natural treatments.

We use all natural treatments for my son and he is doing really well.

An excellent book is "healing the childhood epidemics". It's written by a medical doctor Ken bock.
I know it's a kid book, but the protocol is the same as it would be for an adult. I guess they had to call it something.

I especially like the section on supplements. It lists how likely the doc is to use them and what symptoms he uses them for.

l-theanine is the L supplement one person was using. It is supposed to help with calming and focus. I use it for caffeine jitters and when I can't sleep. It relaxes you, doesn't make you drowsy. It's a staple in my house.

You might consider getting blood work done. check for vitamin and mineral deficiencies. thyroid problems too.

Getting rast allergy testing done was extremely helpful in treating my son. Most doctors don't order all the tests correctly. You need to ask for a blood rast allergy test including the IGG and IGE with food and mold panels. It's not any sort of a special test.

Also have you been binging on carbs/gluten? Eating lots of artificial ingredients in foods? Not enough protein?

If you are drinking beer or wine and you have a mold allergy that could cause problems. Both my son and myself have mold allergies. Which explains why he went nuts after eating popcorn with aged cheese on it. I just found out about mine and I'm supposed to give up wine. We'll see how that goes......

If you are interested in learning more about artificial ingredients to avoid you can check out feingold.org.

There is lots that can be done, but it takes work.

That's interesting mold allergies get effected by alcohol- thanks for bringing that up, I recently had my allergies checked to see what they were and i'm allergic to a few molds. Woops, That reminds me, I gotta go take some zyrtec;)

L tyrosine and b vitamins are a good supplement too


and I'm sorry to the original poster above, not stating if they had ADHD. I kinda forgot two seconds later when I read that part

I know that its down regulation and I meant that I'm worried that the down regulation is permanent. I've seen many studies in apes where they meant to replicate doses of low to heavy amphetmine use in humans and demonstrate the effects. The down regulation in the apes was long-term even with low doses.

I will take your advice, though. I cannot allow for this to get any worse than it already has. I will look more into the topic of down regulation.
Thanks.

Post your ape studies. I have read a number of these studies which look at addiction. Usually there is one key difference between the drug use in these studies and therapeutic use, such as the stimulants are injected. Of course changing a key variable like that produces remarkable changes in the outcomes. You may have been gleaming too much info off of the internet which is rife with scammers and religious nuts. This is how I have seen these studies used, and to do this is highly misleading and two faced, the only agenda being to spread fear. In my opinion such people are dirt bags. :) But hey, it's only my opinion.

We're you even prescribed these?

Downregulation from amphetamines at therapeutic doses is not permanent.

(off topic, removed)

Post your ape studies. I have read a number of these studies which look at addiction. Usually there is one key difference between the drug use in these studies and therapeutic use, such as the stimulants are injected. Of course changing a key variable like that produces remarkable changes in the outcomes. You may have been gleaming too much info off of the internet which is rife with scammers and religious nuts. This is how I have seen these studies used, and to do this is highly misleading and two faced, the only agenda being to spread fear. In my opinion such people are dirt bags. :) But hey, it's only my opinion.

I am well aware of the so-called nuts and the anti-psychiatry crowd. The study that I read was in September and on a library computer. I foolishly did not save it to my flash drive (or save the link) and, of course, the library computer does not record the browsing history. So, sadly I do not have it to show you. I'm certain of it being a legit, unbiased study. Also, if you have saved any studies relating to this I would very much like to see them if its not too much trouble. Thanks.

This is a classic case of thought processes involving withdrawal.

Are we chimps? No. Do chimps need to concentrate on Biology, Chemistry and Calculus, and carry out relatively un-animal-like behaviors? That experiment is apparently botched, as a primate's brain doesn't develop like a human's does (as similar as they may appear) because they aren't raised in a demanding environment.

Hell, they're the ones in cages, not us!

Nobody likes being dependant on medication. But you need to realize that a broken leg needs a cast, and ADHD needs medication (in most, but not all circumstances). VERY few of us have the time, energy and finances to make aggressive lifestyle changes so that we can still barely operate in this world.

Downregulation from amphetamines at therapeutic doses is not permanent.
If you know of any studies that have proven this, could you please share them with me? Actually, even some anectdotal evidence of this would be nice to hear - e.g. if you know of anyone's experience in a comparable situation. Thanks.

These doses you gave yourself were actually pretty low and irregular. You're experiencing mostly paranoia. Give yourself a week or two and you'll be back to complete "normal." It's not possible that you did any permanent damage with such low doses for such a short period of time. Lots of people here take a lot more than that, on a daily basis, for years. Take a breath and relax, you'll be just fine.

if you were actually prescribed adderall, (ie, you have add) then you have nothing to worry about. if however you dont have add, and took the meds illegally then you might have reason to worry, but from such a low dose and for that short of a time nothing bad will happen.

Your natural abilities were not damaged. They are simply stunted by the fact that you no longer take the medication. If you go long enough without the medication, you will re-learn how to study and be effective without the meds. Trust me on this. I stopped taking the medication 3 years ago (recently started taking them again).
Over the 3 year period I had to re-learn everything. I can't complain though. Once I found a system that worked (however chaotic) I was able to go back to school and finish my college degree.

Ditto w/Krazy Taco....the amounts sounds minimal....and I think you have some paranoia issues.

I haven't read much or in detail about this post , just the bare minimum. You stated that you used adderall as a study drug and not for adhd . I saw your dosages, you don't have any damage , adderall doesn't work that way. Like you previously stated you may have some downregulation and I have primarily always used concerta in the past so I know what you mean from the feeling you get when you've been on adderall and you withdraw from it , I'd just try and ignore it and go on , either that or go to a doctor and get a proper diagnosis as I don't think you stated whether your adhd or you picked the pills up for the class. You took this in your own hands by taking the med if you don't have the diagnosis so don't overthink it or worry about ten million what if scenarios now. There is no damage, give it time or go talk to doctor who knows the meds and can give you proper instruction. It's likely if your adhd and you had the med you finally had symptom control so you shouldnt reference the way you think now to the way you respond when your on the med. Either you can study and stay focused on your own or you can't .... ? Which one is it- Anyways natural remedies have side effects too, and they have less empirical studies behind them, so don't go thinking that natural herbs and remedies are the cure all either... I'd go with something thats proven, and has years of research behind it... Good luck and what did you earn in the course?

I haven't read much or in detail about this post , just the bare minimum. You stated that you used adderall as a study drug and not for adhd . I saw your dosages, you don't have any damage , adderall doesn't work that way. Like you previously stated you may have some downregulation and I have primarily always used concerta in the past so I know what you mean from the feeling you get when you've been on adderall and you withdraw from it , I'd just try and ignore it and go on , either that or go to a doctor and get a proper diagnosis as I don't think you stated whether your adhd or you picked the pills up for the class. You took this in your own hands by taking the med if you don't have the diagnosis so don't overthink it or worry about ten million what if scenarios now. There is no damage, give it time or go talk to doctor who knows the meds and can give you proper instruction. It's likely if your adhd and you had the med you finally had symptom control so you shouldnt reference the way you think now to the way you respond when your on the med. Either you can study and stay focused on your own or you can't .... ? Which one is it- Anyways natural remedies have side effects too, and they have less empirical studies behind them, so don't go thinking that natural herbs and remedies are the cure all either... I'd go with something thats proven, and has years of research behind it... Good luck and what did you earn in the course?

Thanks. I was not crying due to withdrawal (its been two weeks since my last dose). I am sad because I notice that the speed at which I learn now is not the same as the speed I could learn at before I ever took any amphetamine. Its the difference between the pre-administration and post-administration states. I don't have too much difficulty focusing (e.g. trying to study) its a difficulty in retaining the material with the same ease I was once able to (pre-amphetamine usage)...

So, I guess what I'm going to do now. Is stay off of it, but take other stimulants that will keep me really alert - ephedra in moderate doses. I know that it can lead to permanent hypertension if used long-term, but I just need to get through the next 6 days. In the CNS ephedrine has far higher affinity for adrenergic receptors than for dopaminergic receptors, so the furthering of down-regulation (if any) will be extremely minimal in the pathways where amphetamine is most involved with.

It was not exactly a course - it was a very large standardized exam for a certain type of professional/graduate school. I'd rather not say more specifics about it to avoid being identified. I scored approximately in the 94th percentile.

Also I think it's really hard for us to even study for anything until the last minute or even study at all, i dunno about meds.

i've never used meds but i have never in my life been able to study unless absolutely screwed for an exam, in a manic panic at the end.

Does Adderrall (usually) change this?

also, i'd like the original poster to know that after I crammed without meds for my finals at university, i thought i'd given myself brain damage from staying up mostly all night for about two weeks. After the exams finished I couldnt actually read anything, not even a newspaper for two months. It completely cleared after a while though, and I suspect the OP may have over-exerted him/ herself. Please dont worry. Your brain WILL repair itself back to 100% i am certain.

There is no permanent damage from such light usage (i.e no loss of DAT density etc, at those dosages).

There could be some downregulation and depletion of neurotransmitters, but this should not last particularly long. Perhaps is it purely psychological; now you may feel like you will never study as well knowing how well you once studied on amphetamines...

There have been no peer-reviewed "studies" about the possible neurotoxicity of low dose, short-term amphetamine use, because the answer is quite obvious...

sounds like the LSAT, or MCAT, just a guess

So, I guess what I'm going to do now. Is stay off of it, but take other stimulants that will keep me really alert - ephedra in moderate doses. I know that it can lead to permanent hypertension if used long-term, but I just need to get through the next 6 days. In the CNS ephedrine has far higher affinity for adrenergic receptors than for dopaminergic receptors, so the furthering of down-regulation (if any) will be extremely minimal in the pathways where amphetamine is most involved with.

It was not exactly a course - it was a very large standardized exam for a certain type of professional/graduate school. I'd rather not say more specifics about it to avoid being identified. I scored approximately in the 94th percentile.


Let me lend you a little horse sense they don't teach you in those Ivy league schools

Just for kicks and grins here

It has to be some thing in the legal profession Fearing ID is required to even consider the legal profession - this is a thing I have run into before with several members who are lawyers . . .

It is doubtfully the medical professionals People in medicine usually aren't worried about any one finding out who they are . . .not in the pre-med state. This is based upon the post written by several medical professionals and those attending medical school or graduate school.

If you are getting the pills from a Doctor ask him that is what he gets paid for




If you are taking them illegally shame on you - your high flutin test does not justify making ADD treatment harder for the rest of us mortals to obtain - The end does not justify the means

If you think I am being mean think again If I wanted to be mean I would remain silent because to me the answer to your problem is obvious.

Most importantly :
Kid if you do NOT have ADD then study naturally or on a substance you can obtain legally on a regular bases -

If you can't even prepare for some entrance exam without chemical assistance wtf are you going to do once you get into the Ivy league college ????

Being a lawyer or working for the CIA means a life time of information cramming - do you plan to take stimulants for the rest of your career???


Now for the answer

The stimulants probably didn't decrease your ability to learn you are simply tying to cram more information into your brain that you ever have before and you feel pressure about this fantasy test -

It is the freaking anxiety that is screwing with your ability to learn and the stimulants are increasing the anxiety because that is what stimulants do . . they are stimulants.

You don't feel like your ability to study came back after you stopped the medication because now you are not only anxious about the test you are scared you screwed up your brain = more anxiety.

Some things that may help

Daily meditation. . . some of that zen stuff works pretty well - This will releive some of that anxiety that is blocking your ability to retain information.

Also If you take a ten minute break and exercise with a brisk walk per 90 minutes of information cramming PLUS get adequate sleep every night I think you will find your brain works much better that taking some one else drugs and artificially screwing with your brain chemistry.

So you don't think I am just blowing smoke up yours. . .



College of Pharmacy, University of Houston (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1636912)

The negative correlation between time management and test anxiety could be explained by the fact that with better time management and test preparation students would not exhibit test anxiety while taking examinations. Inadequate time management and procrastination of study tasks lead to various study problems. With better time management skills, students would not end up “cramming” for examinations, and thereby decrease test anxiety and improve their academic performance.

According to a previous study conducted among nursing students, students who followed coping strategies related to time management skills, nutrition, exercise, relaxation, and cognitive control provided via a stress management intervention program had lower levels of test anxiety.

Adopt a healthy life style it will take you father than stimulants ever can


How do Art of Living programs help youth? (http://www.artoflivingyouth.org/research.html)

One of the greatest inhibitors to learning is stress. “Unmanaged emotional reactions to stress not only lead to behavior problems in young people, but also create physiological conditions that inhibit learning and potentially increase the risk of disease later in life” (McCraty, Atkinson, Tomasino, Goelitz, Mayrovitz 1999). For adolescents, stress comes in many forms, such as dysfunctional families, peer pressure, depression, violence, drugs, low-income status, poor nutrition, academic pressure, work, and others. For education it is first necessary to lower the stress level in students. A study conducted by the Department of Psychology at the University of South Florida noted “it is well known that intense and prolonged stress can produce cognitive impairments and hippocampal damage and increase noradrenergic activity in humans.” www.hvsimage.com/papers/PMID-%2011750896.htm. In other words, a person’s ability to learn may be hampered by overactivation of the fight or flight response and the increase of excitatory neurotransmitters and stress hormones


Stress and Learning (http://teach.newport.ac.uk/sen/SEN_0506/BD_common/Stress%20and%20Learning.doc.)

Achievement stress may be the result as well as the cause of poor academic performance. The precise role of stress in academic performance is blurred because of the complexity of anxiety's origin, measurement, and manipulation. However, The negative relationship between stress and impaired performance is well established.


End of my point . . . . good luck :cool:

~All underlining mine~

Let me lend you a little horse sense they don't teach you in those Ivy league schools

Just for kicks and grins here

It has to be some thing in the legal profession Fearing ID is required to even consider the legal profession - this is a thing I have run into before with several members who are lawyers . . .

It is doubtfully the medical professionals People in medicine usually aren't worried about any one finding out who they are . . .not in the pre-med state. This is based upon the post written by several medical professionals and those attending medical school or graduate school.

If you are getting the pills from a Doctor ask him that is what he gets paid for




If you are taking them illegally shame on you - your high flutin test does not justify making ADD treatment harder for the rest of us mortals to obtain - The end does not justify the means

If you think I am being mean think again If I wanted to be mean I would remain silent because to me the answer to your problem is obvious.

Most importantly :
Kid if you do NOT have ADD then study naturally or on a substance you can obtain legally on a regular bases -

If you can't even prepare for some entrance exam without chemical assistance wtf are you going to do once you get into the Ivy league college ????

Being a lawyer or working for the CIA means a life time of information cramming - do you plan to take stimulants for the rest of your career???


Now for the answer

The stimulants probably didn't decrease your ability to learn you are simply tying to cram more information into your brain that you ever have before and you feel pressure about this fantasy test -

It is the freaking anxiety that is screwing with your ability to learn and the stimulants are increasing the anxiety because that is what stimulants do . . they are stimulants.

You don't feel like your ability to study came back after you stopped the medication because now you are not only anxious about the test you are scared you screwed up your brain = more anxiety.

Some things that may help

Daily meditation. . . some of that zen stuff works pretty well - This will releive some of that anxiety that is blocking your ability to retain information.

Also If you take a ten minute break and exercise with a brisk walk per 90 minutes of information cramming PLUS get adequate sleep every night I think you will find your brain works much better that taking some one else drugs and artificially screwing with your brain chemistry.

I appreciate your reply/advice and I do not think its mean at all. I understand where you're coming from. I am very familiar with all the ethics and moral points regarding psychostimulant use among students/"professionals" that are non-AD(H)D.
People working in health care, or aspiring to do so, would not want anyone to know of their illicit substance use out of several key reasons. Namely, admission to the med school and [continuation of] licence may not be granted if it is determined that the student/physician has a history of abuse (referred to as "impaired physicians").

About the end not justifying the means... That is a hard call to make on for the general population. Its a highly opinionated topic that I'll skip addressing.

Regarding the "shame on me part" and the suggestion that I should have used a psychostimulant that I could have legally obtained: I could have gotten a comparable increase in stimulation of dopaminergic pathways from nicotine, but I chose a drug that would result in less damage to my other organs.

I have been highly successful at uni classes for some time without the use of anything but caffeine. I was great at time management, until this semester when I became really depressed from a summer's worth of fatiguing preparation and simply fell behind in everything else.

I just want to illustrate that we all have special circumstances that lead us to choose paths that, in retrospect, are painfully idiotic.
I do feel for those who really cannot function without these drugs and I cannot imagine what that kind of life must be like. I honestly never meant to make light of the situation of people with AD(H)D. I'm sorry if I came across as inconsiderate.

I just wanted to say thanks to all those who replied and advised me. You really have helped me in getting some more insight into my personal situation with this drug and at least partially eleviating my worries. Many thanks. I wish the best to all of you. :)