I have never been truly sure what depresion is.. but I think I am.
I got sick again with the same nasty cold or whatever. That was a real kicker!

My kid has been warned for at least a month that he cannot continue to make weapons out of metal. #1. If he continues to leave shards, sharp metal pieces all over the property and leaves sords and daggers all over the place. Luckily he doesn't seem to be playing dangerously with them.

Well his father and I who don't live together agreeably don't like it one bit. My 8 yr olds childs response is that it is so important to him. And that the weapon making is his favorite thing to do.

I had provided a large bin for him to keep the numerous daggers. knifes, swords, other strange shaped things hooked to the end of metal fence posts.

He gets his materials from trash. Our property was like a public dumping ground. I have cleaned it yet there is always something more lurking in the forest, old gutters, sheet metal.

I have told him that all weapons, metal scraps etc left laying around will be thrown out. So they have been.

Last night I went around the property, and threw out all the metal junk I could find that was acceptable for the trash guys to take. And.... I put his bin where he stored some weapons and the horrid jagged scraps out at the curb. His Dad wanted that too.

HIs father retrieved about 10 weapons from the tree house. For me to discard when picking up Felix(Max) on thursday. I found stashes in the weeds by the garage. It's gone now. I am not entirely relieved as I fear the wrath of a little boy who will no doubt feel personally violated, wretched of objects he dearly made. Yet they were ragged horrid and dangerous. Not a good obsession for an 8 year old who can't pick up after himself.

I feel very twisted in that I as a parent do not fefel it is appropiet to say my feelings are more important than his. But he couldn't follow the rules I needed for safety. WE have lots of kids playing in our yard, and vehicals comming and going, it was a perfect setup for flat tires as well. But his defense wont listen to safety, or reason. He will try to get more supplies and start over, he will be very angry and hurt.
Any advice needed.
Thanks Janine

Originally posted by janine
I feel very twisted in that I as a parent do not fefel it is appropiet to say my feelings are more important than his. But he couldn't follow the rules I needed for safety.

janine,

you did the right thing here. your son's main concern is exploring, building, and experimenting. your main concern is that he does these things in a safe way. this is not an issue of your feelings being more important than his. this is an issue of *safety.* and a great example of natural consequences. because he couldn't follow your safety rules, the weapons were disposed of. there is *nothing* more to explain!!

i would say be prepared on sunday to stand firm. if he has an outburst. just empathize and reflect back his frustration at having some of his weapons removed. at the end of the day though, you are the adult and he is the child and you *have* to keep him safe.

once he has lost some of his steam. ask him for a solution. maybe he'll tell you he wants to take a metulurgy class. or he wants to learn to weld.

good luck. you did the right thing.

Awww, Janine, I know how you feel. My kids rarely deliberately disobey me, so when do I have to come down hard, I feel like a big meanie. But so what. Safety is the issue. It is your issue. Just tell him you are his mom and you love him like nobody else ever could, so that means you *must* do everything you know to do to keep him safe. He may tell you about a different issue. My son is eight and big into the swordplay. I am looking into fencing.

My nephew is into The renesance period of history and goes to many of the festivals

He Makes swords out of steal and then makes a mould and makes them out of foam and sells them at the festivals

He is making a whack of money doing this as there are a lot of people fasinated by them

I wont tell you to encorage or discorage him but it might be something you can look into to give him direction on this

If I can be of any assistance please let me know

Is there something else you can have him do with has hands? Maybe working with clay? Or carpentry? Building something non-violent?

I know that a lot of boys love to make weapons. When I worked with middle school kids I was amazed at the contraptions the kids came up with from paper clip and similar objects.

Thanks guy's that was supportive.
Tara he does everything in the world with his hands. Carpentry, ceramics, etc we are craft central here. He is on the make from sunrise till 10:00pm, I force him to stop. Nails in wood everywhere, he steped on one the other day. He doesn't share his boo boo's. I can usually tell, because he runs quick to the bathroom. That only happens when he gets cut. I then make him show the problem to me. It doesn't slow him or make him more careful with the metal or nails. I can't follow him around all day.


I do think that getting him into some kind of class would be nice.
He does carpentry at his Dads and is taught to be careful and put things away. I know he doesn't and his dad waits on him hand and foot. His Dad has been working on that. He has been big time into carpentry/mechanics since 2 years. He is very coordinated.

My son wears a bike helmut he is the only kid in the neiborhood wearing one. Tells a lot about our neighborhood! I watched him the other day, being very careful, looking both ways.
When we went bike riding together he reminded me all the things I taught him. About safety. I was to busy trying out the gears on my new bike! He was amazingly careful for Felix. Yet he is so dangerous in other ways. I guess some things are just repeatedly pounded into him and he takes hold.

I know my child and he has of late been very reactive to what he considers injustices. Ignoring him is hard. He knows every trick in the book. He freaked that I asked his Dad to pick him up early
(1 hour) so I could rest before work as I was sick again.
And wouldn't back down, he called his Dad, his Dad stood by me, (I heard later) He even said that Felix should respect my needs.
I didn't give in either. My son pleaded begged tried to compromise, told me how good he'd be, he do anything I wanted if he could just stay till 2 oclock. Kind of hysterical, rage. Whats with this? Anybody else have an ultra dramatic child?

He will freak on sunday, and I will hold my ground. The problem i he will badger and badger until I get so mad, and will threaten something if he doesn't stop. I do not want to do that.
I could really use some extreme coping skills. No, I cannot get away. I will try to hold him and validate him. But I will need to explai------aha I won't explain a thing. He already knows, he was warned. He will try to get me defending myself, and he is good at that! He is like a little defense lawyer. I will just put in hidden earplugs to take the edge of his madness. The other part that worries me is, he will run out and undoubtably start more in rebellion and in possibly semi rage.

I am worried this can only get worse.

I have some violin students in the gifted program at the nearby school. Just so happens the school in our district is the school with the gifted program, it buses kids from all around. I am seriously thinking of getting my son into that.
His father would freak, so would he. But maybe he just needs to have his energy directed by people other than his parents.
Oh he said he'd take a martial arts class with me. That would be good.

Any thoughts welcome and deeply apreciated!!

Garry, my son does renn fairs sometimes, perhaps he know's your nephew. I am interested in your nephew's weapon making to tell my son. But if it isn't sharp and horribly dangerous, he just may not be interested. My son tries to sell his stuff to neighborhood kids, but I forbade it.
Perhaps I can have him apprentice the black smith in the live history village here.
Problem is he likes to be home all the time.

My experience with boys and my personal experience from my youth, is that boys need it BIG.

I've had more than one troubled kid out to our place and it's always entertaining to become the god. I find it simple but I have resources here that city folk often don't have. Horses, chain saws, in short dangerous stuff enough to have mortality enter the equation.

Pierrette (wife, soul mate, and hero) was hosting an exchange trip with a crew of junior high school students from Quebec a few years ago and all were billeted out to various upstanding citizens in the surrounding countryside. We don't exactly fit the mould and live in a very small very old ramshackled country bumpkin hovel in the bush. Laugh.. if you will..ehheh I do.. Some found it outrageous that we would have separate lines for internet access and all the digital gadgets but you still had to go outside to pee. I think that paints the picture well enough.

There was one class of exchange students in the group that were part of an alternative program. These were a mix of boys and girls ages 14-17. After the first night with normies in clean and polished middle class surroundings their teacher approached Pierrette and asked if they could camp at our place. PU was thrilled.. I can't remember if she asked me about it or not but it would not be out of character for her to show up with a dozen troubled kids and ask if there was enough dinner. ehh gotta love her..

Once here, the teacher was really excited. When he saw I had been slashing trees for firewood he asked if we might cut wood for a while the next day. Like I was going to pass that up? Not a chance.

The teacher and I ramped up the work load to meet the available work force and it came off like a well oiled machine. Everyone was required to pay close attention or someone was going to get hurt. What was amazing was the intense pride these kids took in following my directions and executing them with all the strength and vigour only a young kid can bring to the table. Striving to come up to the bar and become adults among adults. When we were done, it was suggested that a dip in the river might not be out of line and that was it.. they were mine. ehh Next came the horseback riding lessons. My mare is a bush horse and some would say that she isn't really even broke, but I can ride her with leg aids and the kids have used her in 4-H so she's not that bad.. she just has a full dose of "horse" still in her and life can get a little "western" if you don't follow the instructions. The horse was a huge hit. Not all of the kids had ridden before. The risks were obvious to all involved and I took it as my duty to make those risks evident.

Ok that's enough of this rambling. My point is that kids and especially boys like yours need conversations (not litterally) about mortality. I have one of these kids. Her name is Manon. She's got a steak of ODD not too bad but it's likely compounded with some of her father's genetics. I gave her a really sharp knife last week and I got an oak spoon out of the deal. She has displayed nothing but attention to detail in the treatment and handing of her treasured knife. She knows that without saying so, she is expected to bring up her level to meet the requirements of the tool or it's gone. I don't expect I can save her from herself but I do want her to know I love her, and accept her just the way she is, especially when she gets to be about 14! Oh please send strength my way..ehh

If he is into "sharp" I'd be seeking out the best knife/sword maker you can find. It doesn't require much schooling to go into business doing this but there will be people if you look, that have done their home work and those that have invested of their soul in the care and respect for these ancient tools.

Whether it's a scouting hike that seems too hard to complete or an adventure camp where the ropes are too difficult or require too much balance and strength or a 10 foot wall that needs to be scaled.. these are all appropriately intense activities too, but don't forget that people whom are skilled in the ancient arts, are of value and he seems driven. I have a friend who hand makes guitars. He starved for years committing himself to an extreme reverence for the history he knew to be worthy. Now he's got 18 months of work backed up and an agent in New York. His cheapest guitars sell for $6500 US.

I'd bet Max would do well studying what he loves. Not maybe what Mum or Dad would want, but.... This could be a blessing in disguise, but what do I know.

Be gentle with yourself.
Take what you need and leave the rest. Odd duck. Ian.

Ian I really appreciated your response!!
He is driven. He cried for a knives since a crawling babe.
When he was one I would let him cut stuff with a butterknife under watch. He was so upset that he wasn't allowed a sharp knife. At resturants he'd make a big scene since he would be the only one without a steak knife. Around two or three he got his first pocket knife, But I would file the blade.
He still remembers that and says how mean I was. Boy does he know how to push buttons! Anyway the kid has lots of knives and relics from fairs. He doesn't keep track of them. So I stopped buying them.
He does a lot of adventure, hiking canoeing, country stuff with his Dad and a bit with me. He loves rock climbing.
I do hope he may decide to take safety more seriously if I can just stick it out and be tough.
His Father is on him in regards to safety 24/7 when with him.
I guess Max (felix) just needs more years of constant mortality teachings drilled into him.

He has been begging me for my old "Gerber" for years. (the blade lock is broken) So I can't give it to him. I told him I'd get him something better if he'd be more responsible. He really seems to have trouble working toward a future goal.

I love knives too, and have a fair share, also his Dad. So the apple didn't fall far.

By the way, I spent many years living in the jungle. I am a jungle woman at heart. Completely self sufficent, rain catch, no electricity. I didn't have a computer then. But we did have an outhouse!! My work employed knives for hours a day. Funny how I am just now really making these connections!

Ian, does your friend make archtop guitars?

He should be home anytime now, I just went around the property finding stuff he stashes that hes not supposed to be playing with. Spray paint also. I just found one of our favorite saws broken in three pieces in the forest. And his best pair of pants with spray paint all over them. I am knowing that it will not help to throw it all in his face. I am nervous about his arrival.
With his dad there it will be worse cause he gets more weird whe he home got to go.

Janine,
It sounds like you are doing great and you have a lot of support here. I agree with the spirit of most of the shares that you are right ot put your foot down but it would be best if you could offer him a safer alternative. Perhaps if you just explain where you are at, and tell him you are looking for some ways for him to use his passion in safer, better ways, he will calm down, eventually. It doesn sound like he tryly has a passion, and I don't believe you can take a passion away from a kid. But you can channel it in better ways and he needs to learn the lesson that there are consequences for not handling things in a safe manner. Best of luck to you, Janine. I have a feeling you'll do fine.

Thanks Claudia so far you are right!
Wow, He had a initial rage, and yelled how could you! (he was semi prepared, but still not expecting his bin to be gone.) when he saw the bin of swords and ragged metal gone. He started dumping the trash cans and found a few scraps. He ran off with one rusty price of metal to hide in the forest. His father started to go afterhim saying, the rage worried him, I told him let him go. So he did. Then his dad helped me board up the broken window in the garage, where he sneaks in to get stuff he is not to be playing with. I heard him commenting on that.

He went up to his treehouse where we apparently had missed a sword. He settled down enough to be talked to about safety. We are going to try to channel his energy with martial arts and whatever else. His Dad seems to be along the same lines. Only problem is it's all on my time and money usually. Which I haven't of either! I am going to figure a way that his father will be invoved more than just agreeing.
He doesn't want Felix (Max) labeled and is uptite about diagnosing him, that is going to be an issue. I guess I wont sweat that for now.

He was just laughing and telling his friend in an offhand that his parents had to board up the garage window to keep him out. We just talked about that. I mentioned it wasn't something to be proud of. He said he could still get in. I said why would you want to get inro trouble? then he said I don't. And that he wont go in.

Then he asked if he could go for a bike ride with his friend. I said I'd like a minute with him and then he could go. I asked him how he felt about getting to apprentice a blacksmith, he was very happy. I just am so relieved.

There is a bunch of sheetmetal trash sitting out on the curb around the corner. I told him he is not to bring any home or to even go through it. He agreed nicely. Hmmmm well see.
Thanks all!!

If it was my boy, I'd be sleeping with one eye open. Oh yeah, you don't sleep much. Just as well. :D ;)

Yep, I don't. I am just glad to be rid of that junk!

Janine... how did today go hon? I have had shivers ever since reading your post.

Ian

All this time I thought you were just a poor ADDer and it seams you've been holding out on us .

We don't exactly fit the mould and live in a very small very old ramshackled country bumpkin hovel in the bush.

Sounds to me like you are living in my dream house (maybe not my wifes but sure sound like my ideal home

Garry

Mary, Thanks for asking,I guess all is well, in 8 yr old land. I just keep pulling in the lines. I will clean up more this weekend. He is very excited to apprentice a blacksmith. I made a call to a friend, keeping my fingers crossed. He is wanting to get into acting too. Months ago he would freak at the mention of any classes no matter what it was. So this is thrilling to me, but I am acting a bit nonchalant. As he is liable to think it was my idea and get opositional.

He was given 2 chicks from some neighbors that I don't really know. I couldn't let him keep them, he didn't like that, but didn't rage. (He is still to rough on animals, loves them a little hard) So he went to return them, but didn't and hid them in the woods. He lied. I wouldn't have known but a friends daughter was with him, and told her mommy. They called to tell cause the little girl was worried the chicks would die. So he retrieved them for me, and we returned them.
I don't think it's so smart for people to give animals to kids without getting their parents permission.

I agree with that totally.. Last fall someone gave our girls two kittens... we kept them. But the idea was the kids should have asked me first.

Glad things seem to be doing ok at least for now. Keep me updated as I remember how my kids were at that age and sometimes still are.

My twins are 16 today (30th).

The apprenticeship sounds so cool! Fingers crossed here. Do you do school during the summer months?

Do you guys have any pets? The reason I ask is that it might be good for your son to have one now. Eight is agreat age for it. Pets tend to have a calming effect on people, bringing out the gentleness. Chicks are a little delicate for an eight year old boy, but there are plenty of other good ones that are fairly durable, cheap and easy to keep.

Yes, we have 5 cats that he is in love with, we started a fish aquarium a few months ago that is going well. We have already had babies. He has had a bird since 3 years old. but "Patches" died on Christmas day.
I feel a great responsibility when I take on a pet. So I know my limits.
I agree about the tenderness FG. In the morning my son would be singing and holding the cats. He just loves them to pieces, nearly poor cats. Cats have always been his favorite pet.

I always homeschooled all year around pretty much. I recently a couple months ago stoped having him do regular schoolwork. Unschooling for now. I try to take the time that I battled with him and play games that pertain to areas that need learning.
He just took SAT.

Oh, yes, now I think I remember Patches passing. The unschooling sounds wonderful. (Will you be my mom, too?) The blacksmithing will fit in well with the school of life, then. I just think that sounds like the opportunity of a lifetime for him and you are so great to want it for him. So many parents eliminate choices for their kids because of unreasonable fears. You two seem fearless to me! I think that is an enviable quality.

Thanks, FG. !! And of course I'll be your mother!