I will pose a question and I want to hear your answers and elaborations on those answers. Be creative!

Q: If energy can be neither create nor destroyed what happens to you when
you die?

Well we decay, stuff breaks down, converted into other forms of energy, methane, gases, liquid soaked into other things.

If left in a field bugs eat/animals eat us, they take the energy.

Just think though, we are made up of the same stuff as dinosaurs! annnd we breath the same air ;)

No wonder its getting stuffy in here.

Could someone please open a window ??

I will pose a question and I want to hear your answers and elaborations on those answers. Be creative!

Q: If energy can be neither create nor destroyed what happens to you when
you die?

Let me pose you a counter question: If apples are healthy for you, then why does my English class have to start so early?

What you said doesn't make sense. Life isn't "energy". Look at it like a robot. You put batteries in the thing and it can move around and maybe even talk. Some day they might even be able to learn and "feel". Now let's use one form of death: crushed in a trash compactor. Both a robot and human will die from this. So what happens to the robot? It stops using its battery. That's it. Whatever is left in the battery is where your "energy" is.

Humans get energy from food. When we die, our stomach stops digesting food, so that's it. Whatever energy your food would have given you just sits in your stomach.

We are all just component elements, worth a few dollars at the scrap yard.

Better to sell your living organs to a wealthy recipient in need.

Now, you ideas - if they are marketable you had best capture them soon and make them available in some transferable but controllable form.

Take John Lennon ...

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=676870&postcount=52

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=676873&postcount=53

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=676882&postcount=54

Then you can live on for AGE$.



- and you (Johnny boy)

- you are rollin' in it.

(well, for decade$)

Only a theory....

I belive the white light at the end of the tunnel is the vaginal cannal, with the operating room light at the end.

....I think you come back.
and furthermore, you know why, because you choose your lessons, and pay accumulated karma with the choice of life conditions you are born into.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53098

Quite possible Suzzannexx. But in that case near death experiences should differ per individual. Not everyone is born in an operating room.

Q: If energy can be neither create nor destroyed what happens to you when
you die?


ADDF::Zach326 posted sometime back (it's in general, adult, meditation or science subforum) -
that on a seven year (I think) cycle
- that each and every one of our atoms has been replaced.

We're an entirely new physical construct.

Now see our minds as forming a larger construct -
in much the same manner that our atoms form our physical body.

So

atoms -> physical body
local minds -> global mind

and we're there.

The physical body outlasts its component atoms (within its own structure)
- the atom though does not exist when it is shed from the physical body -
it's recycled into another structure -
where it
itself

will have an associated other 'refresh rate' associated with it.

This idea ties into the bipolar nature of all emergent structures making up our reality.

-*-

I think perhaps that individuals who are happy -
sometimes wish that they might continue their happiness after what we call death -
- and that this is where our images (of the afterlife) of sitting alongside a big chap in a large (though well heated) hall
arise.
largest -> I'm trying to suggest that the u"berconstruct which our minds form (global mind) outlasts our limited period on planet Earth of 60 - 80 years
and
smallest -> that the fundamental component (now looking in the other direction) from which our physical body is built up -
similarly persists.

-*-

At the most fundamental level -
we will find Planck length standing waves -
which evolve to generate structure.

Imagine a two dimensional plane of standing waves within a matrix -
where the boundary which separates each standing wave -
is a kinda' power supply.

~ represents a standing wave
| represents a power supply

in the images below

So

| ~ | ~ | -> evolution -> |~|~| where the waves are (after evolution) moving in synchrony.

In effect evolution occurs by generating a conducting synchronous behaviour -
the seeming 'solidity' of the thing -
is simply a trick of the light -
the nature of the novel emergent property -
which arises due to an orthogonal re-orientation (on evolution) -
which gives rise to the basis of synergy.

Two waves synergise (combine multiplicatively) and not additively on evolution -
and hence the novel emergent property reflects a combination which generates a product which is greater than the sum of the two parts.
A {multiplicative, exponential} relationship - rather than an additive relationship -
explained away (in effect) by the principle of moments.

This process of evolution is the process by which the most fundamental structure generates all of the more complex structures which form our Universe.

So - we have a geometric expansion (evolution) which generates complexity of emergent structure.

The global mind which is formed from our local minds, is formed by exactly this process.

-*-

At the most fundamental level

| ~ | ~ | -> multiple steps of evolution -> |~|~|

| ~ | <- most fundamental level
persists.

At the level of the evolutionary event 30,000 years ago which saw speciation of modern man (Homo sapiens subsp. subsapiens)
(see ADDF:Yooch's previous thread which featured 'Post-modern' in its title)
- we 'witnesed' the start of a process which culminates in the transition from DarkRed to Navy emergent structure
(around about now)

|~|~| -> |~|~|

local mind -> global mind transition

Homo sapiens subsp. sapiens ->- Homo neosapiens subsp. sapienses

We move on.

This is the underlying basis to ADD.

It's really not so complex an argument -
the confusing aspect (which rather surprises) is that a single simple
mechanism could generate everything that we know.

Q:
Why is this so difficult an argument to accept?
A:
It's not that the argument is difficult to accept - it's that we're used to a world (nonADDer world) - in which experts exist in micro-domains -
- we've grown up in a world where we've been warded off from venturing out of our own very small field -
- the Molecular tendency has predominated (until recently)
- recently we've witnessed an explosion in Systems Studies (see ADDF:Yooch's previous thread which featured Systems Psychology)
mostly through the existence of
technical language (jargon) - meaningless words

We have 'dispersed our minds' -
and now need to rearrange our local minds such that a perfect structure (the global distributed model for mind - a geometric infrastructure -
exactly as described above)
may
form.

Q:
So - why is this so difficult an argument to accept?
A:
No! (read the paragraph above again!)
- this argument is by definition intuitively appealing -
*though* it needs to replace the existing models which define the individual

pre-existing more obfuscated less explanatory models for reality which exist within the individual's mind -
- before this argument can be accepted.

I am trying to suggest that the argument takes more time than any other to actually grasp -
because it requires a complete renovation of one's property -
contrasted against those other new ideas which we've encountered in our lives previously
- those other new ideas which
(in stark contrast)
represent (strictly relatively to renovation) the metaphorical equivalent of sticking a bit of paper on your wall with sticky tape.

-*-

The basic idea is trivial -
- the process of one's mind changing to grasp the idea though is not.
Until one's mind changes - the argument cannot stick.

-*-

We're looking at
(here)
- the process of unwinding and constructing a straight piece of rope.

Education can {weaken/thicken} or can {unwind/wind} the {string/rope} into knots.

Good education thickens and unwinds the rope -
standard education (for money) thickens though ties knot after knot into the piece of string -

- the length of time which this argument takes to be grasped -
relates to the length of time which it takes to unwind/untie the rope -
- this is related (naturally)
to the initial thickness and extent to which the rope {is, has been tied} prior to attempt.

....I think you come back.
and furthermore, you know why, because you choose your lessons, and pay accumulated karma with the choice of life conditions you are born into.

Do not tell the scientists. But I think you are right.

We are all just component elements ...

ooops!

I missed the first line of your post

- you have summarised my entire post with six words
- and what's really impressive - is that you summarised the post before it had even been written.

Do you possess extraordinary magical skills?

If so - I had a nightmare last night from just one of the many apes who has (as supposedly a boss) - victimized others for her own greed -

have you the capacity to give others a glimpse of how those others are perceived?

... it would certainly help people to modify their behaviours, if they could see how others see them -
people do not like being criticised -
it'd be nice if people could be afforded an objective glimpse upon their own behaviour -

... anyhow ...
maybe recording all interactions between people at the workplace is a workable solution -
and refusing all attempts (which are made - and which I have experienced to go {'off the record'/'off camera'}) -
(making it a criminal offence (including immediate dismissal) to suggest any form of 'off camera' communication physical interaction between individuals)
making it a criminal offence to arrange meetings where no others are present -
- in order to protect these victimizing people against observation when victimizing another.

If so - I had a nightmare last night from just one of the many apes who has (as supposedly a boss) - victimized others for her own greed -
quiet around people who could expose her ignorance and a bully wielding force around those who she considered below herself -

this particular woman had no redeeming features -
- just a de$ire for money.
She hid in an office all by herself where her activities could not be observed.

The purpose of offices
- to enforce a physical hierarchy
- a statement of importance - of superiority (so the individual perceives)
The purpose of an office for the 'boss'
- to segregate staff and prevent more junior members from observing senior (more highly paid) members spending the day looking at porn -
the door locks (also) - and there's a blind which can be closed
- to prevent anybody from seeing or hearing the fundamentally selfish middle manager (any manager) -
at work -
pleasuring him or herself.

Why are people forced to bow down to the animal middle manager ?
- these suits are in place to bully their own salary and career progression
upwards
- at the necessary expense of others.

gra$p gra$p gra$ping behaviour
'give me all your money'

The true basis to work however
-> to generate a better world for all members of planet Earth
has long since become obscured by the desire for a few to gain more money than other$ -
- more money for as little work as possible.

what a to do ?

And who protects the bullies?
The bullies who bully the bullies ... ...
... who (in turn) are protected by the bullies on the level above them

- this culture of bullying works its way up to the highest level in an organization -
where -
- the highest level is populated by people with most money in that organization.

These people have an expensive standard of life -
and will protect it.

When one drives expensive large cars - one must put more petrol into these cars -
- and that costs more.

Why is it that people who use less (in a world of finite resources) - aren't rewarded?

Answer
Economics has lost its sense and has changed from economizing to a 'spend, spend, spend' mentality -
the very opposite sense to the term economize.
Overpaid politicians have somehow gotten themselves in so much of a muddle -
that their economic policy has turned into the crazy notion that the world will be a better place if we consume the finite physical resources which characterize our effective 'black boxed' planet

faster ???

wtf !

We are not disordered - we're surrounded by buffoons.
Buffoons (in the entire developed world) who are currently driving down interest rates and increasing the availability of money -

to increase spending.

wtf!

These people have an expensive standard of life -
and will protect it.
Protect it by any means.

It was refreshing to learn that Warren Buffett and Bill Gates have seen through the trap of money -
and that Warren Buffett lives on a low annual salary -
and that both individuals will give their fortunes away -
come the time.

The impact of greed (bullying) in the workplace is impossible to eradicate unless there's some realization that money is the motivation which people are lead to crave -

- and that money is a stick which animals use to beat those who have less than themselves.

Unless we pay everybody (on the planet) the same amount of money -
we won't be able to re-orientate the motivation of the individual away from selfish gain -
and towards community benefit.

The open source community is a glimpse into our future -
open source relating to 'free from co$t' non-limiting informational products -
information - which can supply all but a couple of our requirements
- our functionality relies first and foremost on information -
and then on a basal (continuous delivery) supply of bread,butter,water and heat when we're growing up and rice,lentils,water and heat when we've grown up)

(see recent ADDF threads on {casein,gluten,mercury} (heavy metal) exposure)

I don't know of a single manager of people who isn't a bully -
- it comes with the territory -
the more one earns
- the more of a bully one becomes (if money earned is the point of their work) -

- the key to identifying the bully -
would come through asking the question of whether the individual would perform that task for no salary.

A recent interview with an American artist (in response to a question relating to reduced art sales) - elicited the response -
I don't care about money and I'll continue to be an artist regardless -
I don't need much.

-<- until this is the default state -
we won't have a workable system for our species.

only when money
(as a surrogate for the (evolutionary psychological legacy) urge to be above another in a physical hierarchy)
is removed from our species
(an understanding of why money needs to be lost from our species is also important -
- since the knowledge will bring with it a guarantee that the underlying instinct which money provides mouth-piece for) -
- will we have any chance at becoming better
(better
definition - actually evolve)

-> happiness is a state which can be attained at speciation event of our species -
it's the reason for decade upon decade of mental disorder -

the global mind (superstructure formed from all of our local minds)
(see previous post)

is about to converge.

-*-

Any language which has been used which is less than scientifically exact,
should be seen as a consequence of describing a process of physics -
of geometric expansion -
by the structure which is itself evolving -
the human mind.

The
Homo sapiens ->- Homo neosapiens
speciation event is characterized by a geometric switch in structures (to complexity) -
of an u"ber construct which confers the local mind (our own experiential perspective) -
as its progeny.

When global structure forms (converges) -
we move on.

How do we know that all of this is true ?
Because it is a Universal process which applies to any structure which has energetic component.

Scope of this idea is demonstrate by Einstein's famous equation
E = mc^2

anything with mass has an energetic component -
- waves have an energetic component

and information also -
is a structure formed from energy -

Train of thought

information is meaningful to the mind -
it is therefore coherent -
only a structure may be coherent to our senses/mind
- all structures are energetic constructs

information is an energetic construct.

Suggestion

It'd be nice if we could identify a relationship between energy and information as follows

E = hf^1...........= order 1
E = mc^2 .....\....= order 2
E = information^?3 = order ?3

--------------------------------------------
sorry!
missed the 30 minute edit deadline
--------------------------------------------
please can the post below be retained.
--------------------------------------------

We are all just component elements ...

ooops!

I missed the first line of your post

- you have summarised my entire post with six words
- and what's really impressive - is that you summarised the post before it had even been written.

Do you possess extraordinary magical skills?

If so - I had a nightmare last night from just one of the many apes who has (as supposedly a boss) - victimized others for her own greed -

have you the capacity to give others a glimpse of how those others are perceived?

... it would certainly help people to modify their behaviours, if they could see how others see them -
people do not like being criticised -
it'd be nice if people could be afforded an objective glimpse upon their own behaviour -

... anyhow ...
maybe recording all interactions between people at the workplace is a workable solution -
and refusing all attempts (which are made - and which I have experienced to go {'off the record'/'off camera'}) -
(making it a criminal offence (including immediate dismissal) to suggest any form of 'off camera' communication physical interaction between individuals)
making it a criminal offence to arrange meetings where no others are present -
- in order to protect these victimizing people against observation when victimizing another.

If so - I had a nightmare last night from just one of the many apes who has (as supposedly a boss) - victimized others for her own greed -
quiet around people who could expose her ignorance and a bully wielding force around those who she considered below herself -

this particular woman had no redeeming features -
- just a de$ire for money.
She hid in an office all by herself where her activities could not be observed.

The purpose of offices
- to enforce a physical hierarchy
- a statement of importance - of superiority (so the individual perceives)
The purpose of an office for the 'boss'
- to segregate staff and prevent more junior members from observing senior (more highly paid) members spending the day looking at porn -
the door locks (also) - and there's a blind which can be closed
- to prevent anybody from seeing or hearing the fundamentally selfish middle manager (any manager) -
at work -
pleasuring him or herself.

Why are people forced to bow down to the animal middle manager ?
- these suits are in place to bully their own salary and career progression
upwards
- at the necessary expense of others.

gra$p gra$p gra$ping behaviour
'give me all your money'

The true basis to work however
-> to generate a better world for all members of planet Earth
has long since become obscured by the desire for a few to gain more money than other$ -
- more money for as little work as possible.

what a to do ?

And who protects the bullies?
The bullies who bully the bullies ... ...
... who (in turn) are protected by the bullies on the level above them

- this culture of bullying works its way up to the highest level in an organization -
where -
- the highest level is populated by people with most money in that organization.

These people have an expensive standard of life -
and will protect it.

When one drives expensive large cars - one must put more petrol into these cars -
- and that costs more.

Why is it that people who use less (in a world of finite resources) - aren't rewarded?

Answer
Economics has lost its sense and has changed from economizing to a 'spend, spend, spend' mentality -
the very opposite sense to the term economize.
Overpaid politicians have somehow gotten themselves in so much of a muddle -
that their economic policy has turned into the crazy notion that the world will be a better place if we consume the finite physical resources which characterize our effective 'black boxed' planet

faster ???

wtf !

We are not disordered - we're surrounded by buffoons.
Buffoons (in the entire developed world) who are currently driving down interest rates and increasing the availability of money -

to increase spending.

wtf!

These people have an expensive standard of life -
and will protect it.
Protect it by any means.

It was refreshing to learn that Warren Buffett and Bill Gates have seen through the trap of money -
and that Warren Buffett lives on a low annual salary -
and that both individuals will give their fortunes away -
come the time.

The impact of greed (bullying) in the workplace is impossible to eradicate unless there's some realization that money is the motivation which people are lead to crave -

- and that money is a stick which animals use to beat those who have less than themselves.

Unless we pay everybody (on the planet) the same amount of money -
we won't be able to re-orientate the motivation of the individual away from selfish gain -
and towards community benefit.

The open source community is a glimpse into our future -
open source relating to 'free from co$t' non-limiting informational products -
information - which can supply all but a couple of our requirements
- our functionality relies first and foremost on information -
and then on a basal (continuous delivery) supply of bread,butter,water and heat when we're growing up and rice,lentils,water and heat when we've grown up)

(see recent ADDF threads on {casein,gluten,mercury} (heavy metal) exposure)

I don't know of a single manager of people who isn't a bully -
- it comes with the territory -
the more one earns
- the more of a bully one becomes (if money earned is the point of their work) -

- the key to identifying the bully -
would come through asking the question of whether the individual would perform that task for no salary.

A recent interview with an American artist (in response to a question relating to reduced art sales) - elicited the response -
I don't care about money and I'll continue to be an artist regardless -
I don't need much.

-<- until this is the default state -
we won't have a workable system for our species.

only when money
(as a surrogate for the (evolutionary psychological legacy) urge to be above another in a physical hierarchy)
is removed from our species
(an understanding of why money needs to be lost from our species is also important -
- since the knowledge will bring with it a guarantee that the underlying instinct which money provides mouth-piece for) -
- will we have any chance at becoming better
(better
definition - actually evolve)

-> happiness is a state which can be attained at speciation event of our species -
it's the reason for decade upon decade of mental disorder -

the global mind (superstructure formed from all of our local minds)
(see previous post)

is about to converge.

-*-

Any language which I am using here and which is less than precise,
should be seen as a consequence of describing a process of physics -
of geometric expansion -
by the structure which is itself evolving -
the human mind.

One need look no further than the poetic language used to describe 'love' -
love
- a perfectly predictable product of the one rule of physics -
a perfectable predictable product which is described
(by poets and authors) -
in less than precise language -
- because they themselves are subjectively caught up in the rule of physics.

Love is nothing but a bond -
- a human level (sociological) equivalent to the bond which connects sub-atomic and elemental entities within fields of physics and chemistry (respectively).
It's necessary to shatter any illusions of mystery surrounding 'love' -
so that we can stop killing ourselves in our daily life.

To identify how everything we know can make a logical sense.

Ultimately all of the abuse which we exert on another -
is due to a fundamental incapacity to see that until our mind makes the necessary leap
(no earlier than in our mid-30's (it's tied to the hormonal changes which occur with the menopause)) -
we are essentially animals.

The topological shift from local to global mind -
- occurs conditional on a well-educated and balanced mind.
->- Wisdom arises.

Currently the very great majority of people have died without having reached the state which we are aspiring to reach
(the true nature of Heaven
(from the bible)) -
and this is because of the {need/desire} to earn money
(money - as key weapon used by the component of mind which prevents legacy desires from being eliminated)

'desire' is the very essential motivational factor which is necessary for us to complete the path between birth and menopause -
at which point (and with a properly developed mind)
- wisdom is meant to take over -
wisdom takes over when 'desire' is killed off.

This process has been called the retrograde step on ADDF previously -
and reflects a fundamental shift in our neuroendocrine functioning -
essentially from the anterior to the posterior pituitary axis of influence.

(the need/desire to earn money drives division in our own minds
- division prevents our minds from forming into necessary conformation
- we fail unfulfilled).

The
Homo sapiens ->- Homo neosapiens
speciation event is characterized by a geometric switch in structures (to complexity) -
of an u"ber construct which confers the local mind (our own experiential perspective) -
as its progeny.

When global structure forms (converges) -
we move on.

How do we know that all of this is true ?

Because it is a Universal process which applies to any structure which has energetic component.

Scope of this idea is demonstrated by Einstein's famous equation
E = mc^2

Anything with mass has an energetic component -
- waves have an energetic component

and information also -
is a structure formed from energy -


Train of thought
Information is meaningful to the mind
It is therefore coherent
Only a structure may be coherent to our senses/mind
All structures are energetic constructs
Information is an energetic construct
Suggestion

It'd be nice if we could identify a relationship between energy and information as follows

E = hf^1...........= order 1
E = mc^2 .....\....= order 2
E = information^?3 = order ?3

I will pose a question and I want to hear your answers and elaborations on those answers. Be creative!

Q: If energy can be neither create nor destroyed what happens to you when
you die?

perhaps our energy changes forms and just exists in another fashion. like some sort of after life where you exist as a soul or being (energy) with no body.

E = hf^1...........= order 1
E = mc^2 ...........= order 2
E = information^?3 = order ?3

?3 as in 3d (imensional illusions)

We go to Heaven lol. =]

What happens to you when you die?

To even take a stab at answering, first the term "you" has to be defined.

If by "you" you mean simply a sack of flesh, then that breaks down into more basic forms. Kind of dull, really.

But if by "you" you mean the thing that actually makes us US, our soul, or conciousness, or whatever term you choose to use, then that, I believe, simply continues. The question for me is whether we continue to retain a sense of individuality or whether we simply merge back into the universal consciousness, with all sense of self ceasing to be.

As, he lay there in the care of her hands, she begins to fluster as the monitors, are buzzing and the room is spinning! Blood fills her hands, and she yells for EPI, and a Code BLUE, all respirations are slowing and it is time to decide...does she work furiously to save this blessed soul, or does she allow him to rest, as he has suffered enough?

All this is within a sixty second time frame! The paddles will be placed, ever so maticulous, so the heart will feel just enough shock to shake the SOUL! Are you still there? Can you hear me crying inside? Please MR., not today. I know you are in pain, but the beauty of life is to experience it. Your life is a gift. May I offer you this gift for a bit longer? Please Mr. she cries, to herself as she calls, the rythm out to her collegues, and yells for cardiac meds. Please, not today.

She glances at heart monitor, and checks for rise of chest...there it is....AHHHHHH! He has returned....But, where did he go?

She takes a deep breath, and quietly thanks those who surround her daily...not the viable humans who assist her, but the souls who guide her.

We mearly exist for the experience to establish, history, memories, and challenges. If we had all the answers, then the question would be why are we here?

I add this. I am not OVER spiritual...I do not pretend to hide my praise of the higher power within me, during an episode of life or death, but we occupy this world, and we will occupy another. Only we will have more answers, that will lead to more questions.

I do not look beyond for a place, but believe we are among those, who walked before us, and those who will walk behind us. We share this life so others will have a better life!

Lady X

I don't think the "energy can neither be created or destroyed" arguement can be used to support afterlife; when you die your body just stops converting food into energy and the energy that is already in your body convert to dust.

kinda just like when the batteries on a toy die, like someone above said.

BUT...everything that happens in your brain is like a flash of light; an electrical impulse. and all light shines on forever, for eternity.

so, who's to say that you essesce, your being, doesn't just shine on forever just light a cheap flashlight aimed at space would?

'we are stardust
we are golden
and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden'

- there must have been a time when there was nothing 'here'
- there'll probably be a time when there's nothing 'here' again -

campfires come alive and then go out -
and then come alive
and then go out.

All that I need is a sensible reason to how campfires come and then go -
- fearing one's own death does rather seem to take away from life -
death after making a contribution to better the lives which follow us

- is enough.

I think that perhaps the fear of death is not a true fear -
instead a willing vista for people who have an underlying quota of fear which needs to be associated with something to fear.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
------------------------------------------------------------------
- fear -
is affiliated with desire (see recent posts on an end to desire) -
- there's nothing to fear if we are free from desire.
------------------------------------------------------------------

We are born -
we die -

We know fear -
sometimes we know why we're afraid -
other times we grasp around for reasons in the dark

- irrational it would seem -
death so to fear -

when there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.

Quite possible Suzzannexx. But in that case near death experiences should differ per individual. Not everyone is born in an operating room.


it was a joke...
....not the lesssons part, the operating table part..

ha ha?

I thought the light at the end of the tunnel had been disconnected by management as a cost cutting measure. . .or was it a train? I forget, it's been a while since I've had a good near death experience. . .

On a more serious note: What happens after we die? entropy. The energy expended to maintain order is cut off and we move to a more disordered state.

OOOOHHHHHHH!!!!!! I don't mean to threadjack but something just clicked. I have maintained that I am an agent of entopy. It's practically my middle name. Could it be that us disorderly types are entropy incarnate? (Worm) Food for thought. . .

I do not look beyond for a place, but believe we are among those, who walked before us, and those who will walk behind us. We share this life so others will have a better life!

Lady X

mighty fine Lady :-)

- it's important to add though that we are happiest when we behave just as you describe -
contributing towards giving
... others [will have] a better life ...

however

and of supreme importance - don't confuse this idea with the general idea with the similar idea offered by the over-moralizing schools of thought which our generation grew up with -

- the dreary notion that we need to behave in a certain manner to be model citizens

yes
- there is only community benefit -


but this does not require any

physical contact,
vocal communication,
or

contribution of money
{with and to} any other person.

We're describing a state of mind
(here) -
the onset of a new state of mind
- a novel state of mind [the [actually] neurological system which confers status wisdom]
- a novel state of mind which influences behaviour of the individual in accordance with the wisdom which comes from realising one's responsibility to the social group.

I don't have any physical contact with people, do not use my voice and do not wish to have any money -
I want to construct a better community though without having any physical contact with another person outside of my house.

People (the physical construct which houses the individual's mind) pollute my peace -
we are no longer animals.

Animals are physical entities -
man is about to complete the transition from mind:body duality
- to mind -

man should dedicate our time to meeting only the basal physical needs of the individual
whilst nourishing the mind.
The mind (when nourished) - will return in more than kind (in time) -

the mind is the basis to the freedom which we all seek -

The speciation event of modern man draws to a conclusion as we complete the transition from an external to an internal (within our own minds) model of reality.
This idea relates to the source of neural stimulation which powers our existence.-<-

~Stabile paraphrase~

The sun is an external object which receptors upon our surface convert into neural stimulation (sensation of heat, vision in the light)
- the mind is derived from the internal brain - through instantiation of a mind -
which requires (funnily) -
communication with other minds
in order to work optimally.

The pattern

external reality -> nervous system of the periphery -> builds internal nervous system of centre (brain) -> instantiates mind (a connection to an external waveform) -> until the waveform converges.

We travel deeper In(ternal) -> to emerge back -> Out(ternal).

This is the basis to the metaphor of following the white rabbit -
from Alice in Wonderland and the very beginning of the series 'Lost' and movie 'Matrix'.-<-

~Stabile paraphrase~

unfortunately though there are two paradigms -

the mental and physical paradgm -

and we're being pulled to (instinct) - the application of legacy physical behaviours - when it's their analogue on the higher mental level -
which is our actual draw.

Just that their analogue (on the mental level) -
are novel
to us -
we misinterprete the signs -

and run in the opposite direction.

Illustration using 'freedom' as an example

The urge to freedom is a basic function of man.

Freedom may be defined on either the physical or mental level.

The mental level is higher than the physical level and so as such represents the freedom which we seek.

The film - the Shawshank Redemption -
either most or second most popular film of all time according to IMDB -
reflected the twin nature of physical and mental freedom -

the protagonist secured escape from physical incarceration at the end of the movie -
- however -
the main body of the movie was about securing mental freedom irregardless of state of the protagonist's physical form.

The promised land can be proven to be within -
The promised land does not have a geographical location

- it can be proven that the promised land was meant as a metaphor for a state of mind -

and at some point (as people die by the day over land rights) -
somebody is really going to need to explain the metaphor

which up until now has been understood on the wrong, lower, less abstract -

level.

Understood on the level which a child would take the words
- 'the promised land'.

We have grown up and it's time to start acting our age.

Suggestion

Leaders who wish to wage war should choose 10 of their best men.
10 from one side and 10 from another.

We will then give all twenty of these people from the two sides the exact same sharpened knife
and
then televise them on a field -

- where the only condition is that there must be no person left alive (from either one of the two sides) -
at the end of battle.

Surrender is not permitted.

If the side which loses has more people amongst its ranks (and a new leader willing to step into the breach)

- If the side which loses has more people amongst its ranks who would like to wage war -
then the basic process is repeated.

At the end of multiple rounds of fighting -
we'll be left with a winner and a loser.

Actually -
only losers -

- but at least nobody else will be hurt.

-*-

The reason why art is important

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SXWVpcypf0w&feature=related

How criminally animal are we?

How criminally animal are we?

Though perhaps more to the point -

how dull are we?

Fighting is about as stimulating as listening to the politician speak without meaning.

It's simple to use words non-specifically -
much more difficult to use words unambiguously -

the politician uses words
intentionally
without meaning

because the politician -
- without model to define their policies -

is a victim to expediency -
whatever works -
where 'works' is defined as 'works' towards his own re-election -

problems abound -
- since the politician is not meant to be around to ensure the politician's own ascendancy

short term policies abound -

our effectively physically 'black-boxed' blue and green world
'falcon spirals down'.

We mearly exist for the experience to establish, history, memories, and challenges. If we had all the answers, then the question would be why are we here?

I add this. I am not over spiritual...i do not pretend to hide my praise of the higher power within me, during an episode of life or death, but we occupy this world, and we will occupy another. Only we will have more answers, that will lead to more questions.

i do not look beyond for a place, but believe we are among those, who walked before us, and those who will walk behind us. We share this life so others will have a better life!

lady x

Stardust and angels.

We are the fabric of the universe, so we must be angels, just as we carry exhaled dinosaurs through our blood stream.

My karma is lived out and worked out through my children and my family and my neighbors and my country people and anyone who may come after me. Otherwise I do not think anything composed of energy that is me will remain - not a distinct spirit or a soul.

We are music. When we are done we fade away ...we dissipate. Something special does remain - memories that other people hold and the after-effects of our own little lives. Both of those are made of energy and are unique to us, but eventual the impressions we make are blended into the fabric of future lives and the body of the physical Universe.

That is a wonderful thing and it is (to my mind) a foundation for simple guiding principals that we might build our lives upon. We are limited and finite. But all material things are more ephemeral than we are. The joy that we experience and the consideration (the care) that we extend are our real "souls", souls that we actually create and leave to represent us after we have evaporated. The world is finite but we can't consume it, we can only limit its usefulness or increase its usefulness for a short period of time. Still, we can limit its usefulness with sever consequences. How we live our lives establishes a heaven or a hell - for ourselves and for those around us or who come after us.

We only have one choice - how to use the energy of our lives. That is our lives. Our souls are already walking the Earth...because we have given a part of them to many other people already - they talk back to us every day, or teach our children or are half way around the world from us because these caretakers, the people we have somehow influenced, have passed a small part of our souls on to others and they in turn have done the same.

People have difficult lives because we can try to look into the future, but we can't imagine how we might influence it. We can influence it by our actions today. People have difficult lives because we try to live in the present with very little regard for the future, except for that narrow frame of the future that we imagine we will inhabit in the next hour or the next day or the next year, each more vague than the prior. We seem to want to pull the future toward ourselves, as though to consume it, but we are rushing into something we haven't inhabited yet.

We need to inhabit our future with those we know, and with those we don't, and with those who will come after we are gone.

Does your future, when you imagine it, include other people?

Even the ones you most love?

Does your future include the emissaries of your soul, or their children?

The strangers you are connected to, even though you will never meet them, or ever know how they are connected to you?

It is difficult to imagine the future as something behind us, as if it had already occurred and we are evaluating it, deciding what to do now to make it better then. Instead we seem just to imagine the present, only a little older.

We are dinosaurs, and cannot imagine anything so strange as an animal that doesn't yet exist, breathing our air. We cannot imagine how that animal might think of us - not their actual thoughts about us, but the way they will think about us. The dinosaurs must not have had much capacity for imaging the future. We must not have much capacity for thinking in a way that is just as far beyond our own abilities. Our ability to imagine a future is still dinosaur sized in its own way.

We are dust and folly. We are angels already. The future has arrived and its been carried to us by all the souls who have preceded us. These souls still hear the faded music of the past and they too have breathed the air of dinosaurs. They are telling us not to grasp for the future, but to re-evaluate the present. They are telling us that if we respect the present and live with the understanding that we are just music, being made for the joy of it and for others, then we will move closer toward finding a useful happiness that we can share.

It may not be Heaven, but sarey is already there. The future has arrived. I hear singing all around me...its really never not been there...

Whoa! As this thread continues, the replies seem to mostly be getting longer and very very very D_E_E_P!

I was trying to read here, but right now I'm standing on the throttle and it's hard to slow down and get into these heavy philosophical ramblings!

But I will add that from way back in my childhood, I used to lie awake at night wondering what 'afterlife' was like.

The more I realized I could not answer that question, and the more I realized that the former standard religious answers were woefully inadequate, the more anxious and frustrated I would get.

As I've grown, I've come to worry less and less about it.
That and perhaps having dealt with dead and dying people for many years.

BUT...everything that happens in your brain is like a flash of light; an electrical impulse. and all light shines on forever, for eternity.

An electrical impulse isn't a flash of light. That's just used in movies to make it look cool. If you open up your computer's case you'll see a load of electronics with impulses going every which way, but not flashing light.

so, who's to say that you essesce, your being, doesn't just shine on forever just light a cheap flashlight aimed at space would?

Even if there were flashes of light, they are inside your head, and therefore get blocked by your skull and disappear. :)

Physics as it pertains to perception and afterlife

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will pose a question and I want to hear your answers and elaborations on those answers. Be creative!

Q: If energy can be neither create nor destroyed what happens to you when
you die?


In this vein of thought I feel as one does when being asked a question on a test = my answer you change forms - You always exist through out your own life but not as you do now. Upon closer consideration you exist within each moment for that moment and then are in that moment no more - you change with time all the time.

Who you were last year is not who you are today nor will you be the exact same you a month from now - we change forms continuously except when we die the change is simply more drastic hence more noticeable but the changes are continuous from birth to death no matter how much time spans between them

Whether it be worm dirt as our future self or our soul and spirit join and become one - it all equates to the same common denominator What you are now you cease to be and become what you presently are not - however in this space time continuum which exist forever or not at all depending upon how one looks at it - you are you - now forever or never. . . in this moment then you are in this moment no more.


Creative enough for ya? or shall I try again ????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VST2KKIYn50

check this out^

I think that's the greatest song I ever heard! (I've heard alot)
..I wanna play it at my funeral.

LOL

Um, but not just that one, Ok?


:o

Humans get energy from food. When we die, our stomach stops digesting food, so that's it. Whatever energy your food would have given you just sits in your stomach.

I think that is a different type of energy.

Only a theory....

I belive the white light at the end of the tunnel is the vaginal cannal, with the operating room light at the end.

....I think you come back.
and furthermore, you know why, because you choose your lessons, and pay accumulated karma with the choice of life conditions you are born into.

I would just like to add another strange thought. I wonder if still births are the person going back away from the light. Just a thought.