Im just wondering, I hear they work on similar parts of the brain and am somewhat worried if I use them in conjunction the tolerance for both of them would increase even faster than normal.

bump...i also want to know about this - especially if you were on a high dose of wellbutrin for a while prior to starting adderall...if that affects anything?

Don't ever mix Adderall with Wellbutrin. You're destined to suffer from a seizure. Trust me I did that and I suffered a seizure. Wellbutrin lowers your seizure threshold and Adderall augments that effect. Be careful when mixing those two drugs.

Good Luck.

Yeah, thats why I'm trying to get off of it, so far we cut my wellbutrin dose in half and my starting adderall dose isn't too high. Meanwhile, the wellbutrin stopped working a while ago and im kinda stuck in a situation where nothing is really high enough to work very well until I can completely kick the wellbutrin I guess.

I'm sorry you had to suffer a seizure :( That's some scary stuff

actually I've heard the exact opposite.
Bupropion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion) (Zyban, Wellbutrin IR, ~SR, ~XL, etc.) — Both bupropion and amphetamine have noradrengic and dopaminergic activity. Possible augmentation/potentiation of effects. Bupropion has pro-convulsant properties that may be enhanced or cumulatively potentiated by amphetamine.

If that's the case then why do Drs. keep prescribing both to take together. I was just given a low dose of wellbutrin 75mg to take along with adderall. Shouldn't they tell you this?

I believe the concern of seizures is primarally based on doses above 450mgs. At 450 or lower, the seizure threshold is no more than any other stimulant/non-stim antidepressant. According to my Dr. at theraputic doses, there is no more concern then either medicine on a standalone basis. If anything as WB is synthesized from Amphetimne (Cathinone, to be exact) they have a synergistic in relationship.

Awhile ago I was on both Wellbutrin (300mg extended release per day) and 60 mg IR Adderall per day. I had to go off the Wellbutrin eventually because of the extreme anxiety the combination caused, as well as the overfocusing and obsessing.

NOT a good combo, especially if you have an anxiety issues to begin with.

I did not realize this until I went to another doctor, who switched me to a different antidepressant and immediately I felt like a new person.

Annoyed that the doctor who prescribed the combo never bothered to tell me of the possible problems with it.

It makes sense- Adderall releases dopamine, Wellbutrin is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. You basically are getting too much dopamine at once for long periods of time, which causes the obsessiveness and anxiety.

Not to mention memory problems on the WB due to it being an acetylcholine receptor antagonist I believe. I recently got off it and I feel so much sharper, even when taking the adderall with the WB, my memory is better on just adderall. WB withdrawal is hell though, I think I experienced the worst of it last week and I wouldn't want to go through that again anytime soon.

vague said:
Not to mention memory problems on the WB due to it being an acetylcholine receptor antagonist I believe.

Is this true, this is the reason I stopped taking wellbutrin myself. I've asked my doctor and he told me that he had never heard of this happen to anybody while taking wellbutrin and that if anything it's supposed to help? I understand that the combinatiion could help but it could I guess based on this factor overload the system and just zone you out. All I can say is that I could barely recall , retrieve or think about new things or remember things on wellbutrin. It did have its positive attributes though while doing tasks

and scarletta -

what new antidepressant did you get rx'd that took wellbutrins place. Yes wellbutrin does help you focus but I also understand the obsessing and overfocusing that can happen on wellbutrin. My problem is that if I'm already having problems focusing going back on wellbutrin and overfocusing doesn't seem too bad,....As I did get more things done but after months on wellbutrin it will put you on edge. What combo are you speaking of now?

Well I was put on Effexor, which worked well at first and then the same things kept happening. I also read medical literature that venlafaxine (Effexor) and amphetamines (Adderall) can cause toxicity. My doctor did not know that either.

So off of that,now I am on Lexapro 20 mg a day, which seems to combine well.

Lexapro is an SSRI which affects serotonin levels only, which Adderall and Ritalin don't affect much at all.

Effexor affects norepinephrine and serotonin, and at higher doses, dopamine. So it's not rocket science to see that combining it with amphetamine which releases norepinephrine and dopamine can lead to systemic overload.

And Wellbutrin is a Dopamine reuptake inhibitor, again overloading you with dopamine.

I'm no doctor but I research this a lot. I say if you are on one drug that floods your brain with dopamine and NE, you should not be taking another drug that enhances that, unless the doctor is fully aware and there is some reason for doing so.

An SSRI, or possibly another class of antidepressant, could work well with the stimulants.

scarletta.

what if your having problems focusing and are on a stimulant. Then in this case taking a da reuptake inhibitor like wellbutrin may be well worth your while .

Yes, it could be. I would talk to your doctor about it and have it closely monitored. You can tell if it's not working if you become obsessively focused and anxious. Some people may benefit from both....Wellbutrin (like Ritalin) will not work as well on someone with low dopamine levels (or stores) because it inhibits the dopamine transporter from reuptaking the dopamine back- thus making it more available to do its job since its in the synapse longer. But if you don't have much dopamine being released in the first place, there's not much to inhibit. Those people may benefit from an amphetamine stimulant (or even amantadine) which seems to actually "pull" the dopamine out from the vesicles, thus making it available to your benefit, and also giving the DARI something to block!

scarletta,

so maybe wellbutrin and adderall may work best? I always feel okay on wellbutrin but I reach points where I'll be on it for a few months and I feel a bit mentally out of it, ironically once I stop the next three or four days on just my stimulant I feel very focused. I believe this has to have something to do with the reuptake or more availability of da in the synapse once the wellbutrin is discontinued-?

Wait-are you on both Adderall and Wellbutrin right now and what dosage?

Hollywood, that could very well be true in your case.
Here's a journal article that describes Wellbutrin's action very well:
http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/pccpdf/v06n04/v06n0403.pdf

You can see it is both a dopamine and NE reuptake inhibitor, and Adderall is both a dopamine and NE releaser. Using these together, depending on the person's body chemistry, tolerance, dosage, timing, etc., could result in the stimulating effects of Adderall being blocked by Wellbutrin, since Wellbutrin blocks the dopamine transporter in order to keep the dopamine around long enough to do its job before it is "reuptaked" or broken down by oxidase, etc. But at the same time it could be blocking the RELEASE of the dopamine from the transporter that Adderall stimulates. If so, you are not getting the full effects of the Adderall, which, for ADHD treatment, is much more effective than Wellbutrin is.

In fact I know of drug users (abusers) who will not take cocaine before amphetamines for this very reason. The cocaine is a DARI and blocks the transporter. It blocks the effects of the amphetamine. If the amphetamine is taken first, though, and a lot of dopamine is released, then later the cocaine could be taken to ENHANCE the effect bc it will trap that released dopamine and make it stick around longer.

So really it could be used to your advantage depending on the drug's half-life,etc. Some people take a combination of Ritalin and Adderall. Taking the Adderall first, with the longer half life of 10-13 hrs or so, then later the Ritalin, with the short half life of 2-4 hours. The Ritalin can serve to "trap" the dopamine that the Adderall has released and give more therapeutic effect.

In some cases, like my own, it seemed the Wellbutrin was just adding to the stimulation of the Adderall. It must have been trapping the released dopamine and keeping it around a lot longer than if I'd taken Adderall alone. So I was overflooded with dopamine and started exhibiting some of the syptoms of that:

obsessing, overfocusing, anxiety, emotionalism, anhedonia, etc.

To me it seems like in your case when you stop the Wellbutrin, you feel more focused because the Wellbutrin isn't there "blocking" the dopamine from getting released. It's all very idiosyncratic and I'm no doctor, but these are generally accepted theories.

Hope this helps!

yeah but the wellbutrin is priming the synapse before discontinutation creating more connections in the synapse just before stopping wellbutrin thus what I'm labeling as a window of time for a few days where you would possibley have better symptom control. I don't get it , so wellbutrin and adderall seem to potentiate one anothers effects , actually just prolonging the benefit without the highs and lows right ? Or do you view this reuptake blocking from wellbutrin as negative all the positives of adderall?

So would taking a low dose of WB later in the day after you've taken your adderall be more effective? I think when I was on the WB still it may have been blocking the adderall instead of acting synergistically with it.

Vauge,

That is what my Dr. reccomended, take the Adderall first and then take the WB in the afternoon, in my case at 12:00PM. So in theory, the Adderall reuptakes and releases some and the WB will hold what's left in the synapse longer. However, the release factor of Adderall doesn't really kick-in until doses of 60mg or greater. In 60mgs or less, Aderall primarally is a dopamine and NE reuptake vechicle, and does the same thing as Ritilan (maybe with more force). The WB in the case of doses 60 or less mgs would just enhance the reuptake inhibitor benefit, and should not reduce it. However, in the case of ADHD, one person's success may not meet another's needs. One thing to mention is that WB doses appear to prevent the afternoon crash - likely by holding the dopamine around longer. Prior to this regimen I would crash hard and get nasty/snappy towards others. WB eases the drop off of Adderall. On the other hand, if I forget to take WB - I feel this and experience tiredness.

Vauge,

That is what my Dr. reccomended, take the Adderall first and then take the WB in the afternoon, in my case at 12:00PM. So in theory, the Adderall reuptakes and releases some and the WB will hold what's left in the synapse longer. However, the release factor of Adderall doesn't really kick-in until doses of 60mg or greater. In 60mgs or less, Aderall primarally is a dopamine and NE reuptake vechicle, and does the same thing as Ritilan (maybe with more force). The WB in the case of doses 60 or less mgs would just enhance the reuptake inhibitor benefit, and should not reduce it. However, in the case of ADHD, one person's success may not meet another's needs. One thing to mention is that WB doses appear to prevent the afternoon crash - likely by holding the dopamine around longer. Prior to this regimen I would crash hard and get nasty/snappy towards others. WB eases the drop off of Adderall. On the other hand, if I forget to take WB - I feel this and experience tiredness.

Thanks for that informative post! I'll keep that in mind. That may explain why I'm not having that much luck with adderall so far, since my dose is rather low, and it probably just does something similar to WB, which I didn't have much success with for ADHD.

i take wellbutrin 300mg 240mg of adderall ir an effexor i aint got no c zzzzzzzz

dopamine comes from diff parts of da brain when triggered as well noreph

Yes and my dose of Adderall was 60 mg with 300 of Wellbutrin. Wellbutrin itself is contraindicated for anxiety, it can exacerbate people prone to it. Wellbutrin itself can also be used alone to treat ADHD for some people. For some people, it's enough like Ritalin. For others, not.

I guess if you are on a dose of 60 mg or more of Adderall/Dexedrine, that plus the Wellbutrin is going to probably be too much.

I look at 3 ways it could go:

1. The combination provides too much stimulation, too much dopamine is released and prevented from reuptake. This would cause symptoms such as overfocusing, anxiety, obsessiveness, etc.

2. The combination of a lower dose of amphetamine and a higher dose of Wellbutrin, with Wellbutrin taken first, particularly, could lead to Wellbutrin blocking out the effects of the amphetamine. This could lead to a return of the ADHD symptoms, etc.

3. The combination of the "right" dosage and "right" timing, with amphetamine taken first and Wellbutrin later, could enhance the stimulant's therapeutical effects in some people, by providing both the release of the dopamine and the inhibiting of reuptake.

A lot of it depends on your particular neurotransmitters. Some people naturally have low dopamine stores. Or you might have been a coke addict or meth abuser, etc., whose dopamine has been depleted and never returned to normal levels. For these people, a DARI is not going to work as well. There's a study on this somewhere, it's on Google. The researchers could predict the effect of Ritalin on the subjects based upon the subject's levels of dopamine pre-Ritalin treatment. Those with lower levels were not helped much by Ritalin. That's because there wasn't enough dopamine released to get "trapped" by the ritalin. Those people are going to need d-amphetamine, or some of the less abused drugs, like amantadine, to get their dopamine levels to the point where the Ritalin can work with it. (Or natural dopamine precursors like L-Tyrosine or phenylalanine, and especially a protein rich diet.)

So I guess everyone's case is different. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that the combo is a well-known cause of anxiety and obsessiveness in a lot of people. The doctors should warn of that before prescribing. And then it's trial and error. If you find the combination works for you, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

For some people it could be really beneficial, like I said, with the two meds working in synergy to create a better effect than a traditional ADHD treatment alone.

I just looked up the half-lives of these drugs.

In my Springhouse Nurse's Drug Guide of 2007, it has Wellbutrin with a half-life of 8-24 hours. For dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine and most of Adderall), they say 10-12 hours.

On Wikipedia, they have Wellbutrin with a half-life of 20 hours, and Dex with a half-life of 10-28 hours with 12 being average.

Not exactly easy to work with, but if we go with the d-amph reaching peak levels about 2 hours after the dose (which seems to be pretty well accepted), and the Wellbutrin also peaking about 2 hours after dosing, you could time it so that the Wellbutrin is reaching its full uptake blocking effects at the same time as when the amphetamine is starting to lose its effects.

Of course, this just assumes one dose of each per day. If you did this, then the next morning, Wellbutrin's half-life (if close to 8 hours) would be over so the "system" would be cleared for the next amphetamine dose.

But if you;re dosing a few times a day, inevitably there's going to be overlap. Probably the most important would be to do like RecruitDir's doctor said- taking the Wellbutrin later in the day. You've probably taken your main dosage of d-amph before then and it's built up in your system quite a bit, there should be a lot there for the Wellbutrin to trap and work with.

Again this is all conjecture. But fun to speculate!

this is a great post and makes excellent sense. FYI, when I take wellbutrin and I never had this knowledge when I was taking it I would always take it around noon just as recruit does, I did this on my own merit with no advice , it just seemed as many others have stated that if I took wellbutrin at the same dosing time with my stimulant that my stimulants positive effects were muted, but if I took the wbxl at noon or later in the day it seemed to help. Of course I do believe if you are on a higher stim dose that you may want to consider scaling down on your stim a tad once you begin wellbutrinxl, it seems the two do indeed potentiate one another. Its just too bad most docs don't give more advice on the timing and dosage of using the two in combination

Dont forget that Wellbutrin is a strong inhibitor of the enzyme CYP2D6, which is the very enzyme that breaks down amphetamines into its different metabolites. So the positive affect of timing dosages, probably has more to do with the enzymatic process and not the pharmacokinetics of Wellbutrin.

I currently take both Wellbutrin (300mg tid) and Adderall (20mg bid). I combine them to lessen the vasoconstriction that I experience with taking amphetamines (horrible leg pain). It makes the Adderall more like a "massage" instead of a "punch".

Now if I could only convince my shrink that i need a Dopamine agonist...:D

Yes it is a CYP2D6 inhibitor, but I"m not sure it's considered a potent one like Prozac is. But yeah,that could prolong the effects of the amphetamine, just like urinary alkalizers do like antacids and baking soda.

That's interesting you take the Wellbutrin to lessen vasoconstriction, when I took Wellbutrin together with Adderall my blood pressure went up. How would Wellbutrin work as a vasodilator,I wonder?

Well it goes to show that everyone's body is different.

scarletta,

I agree with what your saying, but somewhere I remember reading that wellbutrin is helpful for those with RLS (restless leg) although it doesn't make much to me either.

Well Wellbutrin makes sense for restless leg, because it increases dopamine availability. Lack of dopamine is a big cause of restless leg, which is similar to Parkinson's...they use Parkinson's drugs like levodopa and others to treat restless leg. And levodopa is converted in the body into dopamine.

I just don't know how it acts as a vasodilator, but I'm sure I can learn!

I take 450mg of Wellbutrin XL a day and 100mg of Vyvanse. I used to take 40mg of Adderal XR and all of these drugs seemed to work well for me, even in combination. Although every person is different and responds to medications differently, I have not had a problem. The only problem that I have was that the Adderal XR began to wear off early (I attend college at night) so my doctor switched me to Vyvanse.