View Full Version : Two online documentries on ADHD free


noodlzzz
02-22-09, 12:27 PM
ADHD: What Next for Craig?
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http://www.veoh.com/videos/v15587898jjdDxpBz (I think you need to sign up to veoh to watch)

Most of the estimated half million children in Britain with the behavioural condition Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) receive no treatment at all. Those that do, tend to be given powerful stimulant medication like Ritalin and Concerta. These drugs can help inattentive and unruly children focus and have been the first choice for doctors treating ADHD over the last decade. Similar to amphetamine, it can cause insomnia and suppress the appetite, causing weight loss and stunt growth. There have even been reports of children becoming suicidal on them. Anxious parents though, have long been reassured by doctors that the benefits of medication far outweigh the risks. Children with ADHD are at an increased risk of delinquency, substance misuse and even of going to jail.

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Living With ADHD <hr style="color: rgb(247, 241, 227); background-color: rgb(247, 241, 227);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message -->

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is one of the most feared and misunderstood of all medical conditions. ... Despite over 200 scientific papers being published on this neurological condition every year, it remains stigmatised and controversial. Some doctors don't even believe it exists. Yet it is estimated that as many as 3-5% of the childhood population, and over one million adults in the UK are affected by ADHD. These people are often described as stupid, lazy, disorganised, wild, out of control or woozy on drugs. But the reality is altogether more complex, and deeply moving.

Part 1 (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v155514836wWZX6dg)
Part 2 (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v15551484575sPc8j)

samtux
02-22-09, 05:04 PM
Would it be fair to say that craig has more problems than just ADHD and prob needs a diagnosis for them too ? this documertry seems a bit unfair.

As for other one i have seen it b4 and was quite interesting showing how it effects family life ect

shame how the british media always protrays ADHD with the H and a very large H at that and it only does this when its not denying it exists!

Thanks for this Noodlzzz

Sam

noodlzzz
02-22-09, 05:30 PM
Yeah its normaly the ritalin 12 year old hyperactive boys that seem to be the concentration of media. It really would be nice to see some adults, add and girls in the light...

samtux
02-22-09, 05:42 PM
Yeah

Hmmm a fair view point frm the media.....you wouldnt think that was too much to ask would u ?!

S

sparkles
02-23-09, 12:07 AM
I just got through the first one and it's making me think. I also realized what could be worse than dealing with my innatentives -- dealing with a hyperactive. Does hyperactive include all that anger? Is it possible just to be hyperactive and not so foul mouthed and angry?

With the girl I wondered if the meds were actually affecting her behavior to make it worse and not better. Maybe she was one of those kids that outgrew it so that the meds were no longer appropriate anyway? I mean she was able to get good grades. Usually it's the opposite that happens -- that as the kid gets older and the school work gets more difficult, the grades drop.

I think that she outgrew adhd and no longer needed meds and that acting out because of family problems like her father leaving and brother dying was mistaken for continued ADHD and while being medicated all those years people not picking up that the meds were no longer appropriate. So what appears that she doesn't need the meds is actually that she never needed them anyway because she doesn't have ADHD. Just a theory and thinking out loud.

Imnapl
02-23-09, 12:16 AM
Sparkles, what are the sources of information that helped you form your opinions regarding Adult ADHD?

sparkles
02-23-09, 12:39 AM
Sources?:

1. My H.S. Kid and my adult husband

2. Video or Dr Russell A. Barkley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3d1SwUXMc0






and a

3. rare find where it said that some kids outgrew it.

http://www.russellbarkley.org/adhd-facts.htm



ADULT OUTCOME

It has been estimated that anywhere from 15 to 50 percent of those with ADHD ultimately outgrow the disorder. However, these figures come from follow-up studies in which the current and more rigorous diagnostic criteria for the disorder were not used. When more appropriate and modern criteria are employed, probably only 20-35 percent of children with the disorder no longer have any symptoms resulting in impairment in their adult life.


============================

If I had a kid with those kind of rage problems, I'd concentrate on that and work toward figuring out how to accomplish getting him survive in the world without rages and anger and acting out etc. Otherwise he's sure to scare the pants out of everyone and he'll be a very lonely soul or worse

But when you have a kid with no obvious debilitating behavior problems except for a bit of immaturity and then their grades suddendly strart gradually plummeting in High School what you want to do is to help alleviate the struggle and if medication helps them continue at the pace that they have been used to and the pace that they've been happiest (stay with friends in the same classroom) then medication it is for us.

I read a bit more here on the forum and a place where it says that although adhd kids are lagging behind in emotional maturity that they eventually do catch up. That's comforting to me because it means they can be helped to progress -- with the right support systems they can be carried through.

I thought if medication can help work along side that support also, great! But I'm beginning to wonder if in addition to the cognitive enhancements, dependence is a problem to worry about. I already had that covered when I heard of Vyvanse, the only non addicting. So that's what I was hoping my husband would get. Ofcourse now I know that it all depends on what his impairment and chemistry is, he has to be paired up with the right meds.

I'm still new to this, but I'm trying to make enough connections in order to make the right decisions for my family.

Any thoughts are welcomed. YOu may PM me, anyone as I don't mean to hijack this thread. <3

Imnapl
02-23-09, 12:51 AM
Does hyperactive include all that anger? Is it possible just to be hyperactive and not so foul mouthed and angry?Foul mouthed and angry is not a symptom of ADHD so yes, it is possible to be hyperactive without being foul mouthed and angry.

With the girl I wondered if the meds were actually affecting her behavior to make it worse and not better. Maybe she was one of those kids that outgrew it so that the meds were no longer appropriate anyway?Stimulant meds and mania can be a problem, but other comorbid conditions also improve with stimulant medications.

I mean she was able to get good grades. Usually it's the opposite that happens -- that as the kid gets older and the school work gets more difficult, the grades drop.As you read more threads on these forums, you will discover that many people with ADHD get decent grades - the key here is that people with ADHD tend to underachieve, based on their ability.

Grades dropping in high school is very common for ALL adolescents.

I think that she outgrew adhd and no longer needed meds and that acting out because of family problems like her father leaving and brother dying was mistaken for continued ADHD and while being medicated all those years people not picking up that the meds were no longer appropriate. So what appears that she doesn't need the meds is actually that she never needed them anyway because she doesn't have ADHD. Just a theory and thinking out loud.Sparkles, do you believe in Adult ADHD?

sparkles
02-23-09, 12:59 AM
Imnapl,


Sparkles, do you believe in Adult ADHD?

Do you believe that I don't?

Sources?

I'm new here but the forum is littered with enough posts from me --

I'm sorry but your question is throwing me off, it's the last thing that I thought I would get asked.

mctavish23
02-23-09, 01:06 AM
Wow,

Lots of good "stuff."

The original field trial on the DSM-IV diagnosis of ADHD (Lahey,1994),

used a sample population of children/adolescents between the ages of

4-16 years, over 80% (84%) of whom were BOYS.

As a Life Span disorder, ADHD changes across a person's life & stage(s) of development.

It's important to recognize that girls present differently than boys,

and that people really don't outgrow ADHD.

As they grow older,the symptoms become more residual in nature.

In addition, the older you get, the fewer symptoms you need to meet criteria.

Lastly, I just received a book in the mail that I'm looking forward to reading :

ADHD in ADULTS (What the Science Says)

by Russell Barkley,Kevin Murphy & Marie Ellen Fischer

New York, Guilford (2008)

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Imnapl
02-23-09, 01:08 AM
Sources?The posts in this thread. I now understand that the subject of ADHD is new for you. I am interested in hearing how the posts of other members are helping you understand your family members with ADHD.

KFC in CA
02-23-09, 01:25 AM
So nice of the BBC to pass off a flaming case of Oppositional Defiance Disorder as serious ADHD. Not that Craig doesn't have ADHD, too, just that there is nothing violent or defiant about Hyper. Really sad that his parents weren't put into intensive parenting classes when he was diagnosed. Whether he has more going on is hard to say. However, it is safe to say that he does not represent typical ADHD even in a more extreme form.

FWIW, I'd also guess the girl was either misdiagnosed (because, yes, some parents do prefer a pill over parenting), or she needs time off meds to figure if inattention in a significant problem. Again, the anger, rage, teen delinquency... much more likely due to puberty in a bad home environment.

Personally, I don't believe in medicating kids unless it's necessary for learning (which is different than making the school happy) or if they are so impaired they can't socialize with other kids. There is so much other learning and maturing and socialization that goes on, not to mention growth. Kids need to be parented and learn how to live with their abilities, too. By HS, I think it's a little different and they are old enough to make a responsible decision. For a young kid, I'd try very hard to avoid medicating.

sparkles
02-23-09, 01:30 AM
The posts in this thread. I now understand that the subject of ADHD is new for you. I am interested in hearing how the posts of other members are helping you understand your family members with ADHD.

Well then you are very welcomed in following my posts, you always were. But being that you are some sort of senior member here I would hope that I could learn something from you and that you don't mistaken my positive outlook and analytical nature to mean that I'm not taking adhd seriously.

As you read more threads on these forums, you will discover that many people with ADHD get decent grades - the key here is that people with ADHD tend to underachieve, based on their ability.

I'm one of those persons with a gifted child, so I do know. And yes, I'm sick of hearing from her teachers that she doesn't live up to her potential so I do understand the underachieving aspect.

Grades dropping in high school is very common for ALL adolescents

Not in my daughter's case. In her case it's due to the adhd. The condition that you suspect me in not believing in.

What I wrote regarding the girl was only meant to be an observation that is why I was careful to write that it was a theory in my opinion--because after all, we don't really know her whole situation and life by watching a few minutes on a video. AND science has been wrong before.

Ooops there goes my analytical nature again.

I'm just a person trying to do best by my family in so doing I'm going to question and have questions, doubts and an open mind, always.

Imnapl
02-23-09, 01:47 AM
There is so much other learning and maturing and socialization that goes on, not to mention growth.Excellent point. I would like to add that learning, maturing and socialization are also important for parents. I don't think we ever finish.

sparkles
02-23-09, 02:00 AM
Wow,

Lots of good "stuff."

The original field trial on the DSM-IV diagnosis of ADHD (Lahey,1994),

used a sample population of children/adolescents between the ages of

4-16 years, over 80% (84%) of whom were BOYS.

As a Life Span disorder, ADHD changes across a person's life & stage(s) of development.

It's important to recognize that girls present differently than boys,

and that people really don't outgrow ADHD.

As they grow older,the symptoms become more residual in nature.

In addition, the older you get, the fewer symptoms you need to meet criteria.

Lastly, I just received a book in the mail that I'm looking forward to reading :

ADHD in ADULTS (What the Science Says)

by Russell Barkley,Kevin Murphy & Marie Ellen Fischer

New York, Guilford (2008)

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Hey Robert,

You know the outgrow quote was taken from one of his articles. I could not believe what I had just read when I found it so I remembered what I learned in his own video (pretty depressing to me) and just concluded that it wasn't literal (the outgrow quote in the article) but I knew there was no mistaken that "no symptoms" meant something was getting better.

My approach is to come at it from different directions. I'm careful in making my choices for a few reasons that include time, money, proven effective. I do realize that some things might be experimental just as how talk therapy is of little use to adhd according to the Dr, I'm aware that I may end up doing somethings that might prove useless what's important to me is that I've tried and I'm actively doing something to help them help themselves.

I had my daughter tested (she's due for a full eval soon) at the beginning of this whole discovery. She was performing way above average in all areas except one.....the one that was consistent with adhd. I had her do some intensive cognitive work and she improved that area from a 50% to a 90%.

Even if it didn't improve anything related to adhd difficulties (for arguments sake), it did at least mean that it would help in increasing her overall performance in that area and in turn improving her overall grades.

The way I see it, it's easier to make it through life as an educated adder who made it through High School and College and have gotten situated in a job that takes advantage of your strengths than never having realized that potential because you couldn't get through High School.

It's the difference between sitting in a dirty house and being able to afford paying someone else to do it.

Nothing wrong with messes either I'm living proof that you can survive with empty drawers and dressing yourself out of laundry bags.:D

Imnapl
02-23-09, 02:04 AM
She was performing way above average in all areas except one.....the one that was consistent with adhd. I had her do some intensive cognitive work and she improved that area from a 50% to a 90%.What is the one area that was consistent with ADHD?

sparkles
02-23-09, 02:48 AM
Inductive reasoning and pointing out the "BIg Picture" in a story.

As soon as they taught her skills to figure it out.....they then worked on her speed. She had to do it with as few words and as quickly as possible.

--------------------

RIght now if I were asked what's the biggest disruptor at home I would have to say that

She has major problems with judging time. But then again this is something that the doctor pointed out in that video. When I first watched it I heard him speak so many words that were familiar to me. It was like I had just been let into another dimension as I watched that video and everything started making sense.

If I could just figure out how to help her with that time issue. So I'm still reading and learning. I need to get a therapist that is well read on adhd. I think that is going to be very helpful to us. My daughter finds other people's enthusiasm contagious so all I have to do is get someone that is very personable and I'm all set. <where's the="" two="" thumbs="" up="" smiley?=""> Where is that two thumbs up smiley? This will have to do:cool:

--------------------------</where's>

Imnapl
02-23-09, 11:14 AM
Inductive reasoning and pointing out the "BIg Picture" in a story.

As soon as they taught her skills to figure it out.....they then worked on her speed. She had to do it with as few words and as quickly as possible.<where's the="" two="" thumbs="" up="" smiley?=""></where's>Sparkles, did this come from a commercial therapy program?

noodlzzz
02-23-09, 11:57 AM
Isn't 'the big picture' associated with the autism spectrum?

roseblood
02-23-09, 12:18 PM
Would it be fair to say that craig has more problems than just ADHD and prob needs a diagnosis for them too ? this documertry seems a bit unfair.
I thought he might be bipolar when I saw that programme. Not responding to tranquilisers isn't normal, is it? And his pushing past people etc. looked more like grandiosity than impulsivity. I know ADHDers are often emotionally reactive and I'm not unfamiliar with overwhelming anger myself but this boy's most impairing daily symptoms seem driven by mood instability, not the core features of ADHD.

I know cases of ADHD alone are unusual but they didn't have to pick one quite so confused by possible overlapping comorbids and attribute every single aspect of his behaviour to ADHD. This sort of thing only makes underdiagnosis and misdiagnosis even more likely in the UK. No one's going to come away from watching that documentary much better informed IMO, and not just about the symptoms.

KFC in CA
02-23-09, 03:24 PM
I thought he might be bipolar when I saw that programme. Not responding to tranquilisers isn't normal, is it? It depends on how much he was given and how emotionally distraught he was.
And his pushing past people etc. looked more like grandiosity than impulsivity. I know ADHDers are often emotionally reactive and I'm not unfamiliar with overwhelming anger myself but this boy's most impairing daily symptoms seem driven by mood instability, not the core features of ADHD.
His mood instability seemed primarily reactive to not getting his way. This is more symptomatic of a personality disorder than bipolar disorder. Bipolar mood instability can be reactive but it often is independent of any events. Also, by 14 he would have started having periods of significant depression that were apropos of nothing. His "suicidality" appeared to be tied to anger or in response to not getting what he wanted. That is very different.

He struck me more as a kid with severe ADHD and probably sensory processing issues of some sort, whether on the autistic spectrum or not. ??? His family also seemed to let him run the family from an early age instead of instilling boundaries and self-responsibility. I don't mean that to sound too idealistic, but parents do manage this with severely autistic kids and other kids with equally difficult challenges. It is very possible to do. That seemed to me to lead to the ODD.

I actually was watching for bipolar signs since I have it, and I didn't see anything to really support that diagnosis. But, there always are truly atypical cases, and no one can really know from highly selected info for a TV show. Mostly, I think the producers sensationalized a kid w/other problems instead of actually reporting on ADHD.

Imnapl
02-23-09, 04:10 PM
I couldn't force myself to watch more than nine minutes of Craig's video. ADHD is the least of this poor child's worries, if ADHD really is part of the picture.

Some observations:

Destructive: this is not a symptom of ADHD. ADHD people may damage things because of impulsivity, curiosity, carelessness, etc., but being purposely destructive is a symptom of other problems.

Looks like: I see Craig's behaviour in kids with serious learning disabilities, low cognitive function, and kids exposed to substances in the womb. Craig's behaviour in the first nine minutes is not uncommon, unfortunately, and schools deal with it on a daily basis.

Interview in the garden: Craig was socially awkward. Covert looks at the interviewer as he wacked things with the stick. At first I thought he was forced to speak to the woman, but he did seem engaged on some level and gave brief answers. Non-verbal learning disorder perhaps?

Trip to the amusement park: Craig went on the outing with Mom and StepDad. His inappropriate behaviour - budging in front of people and rushing to the next thing is quite typical of some fourteen year old boys who have no diagnosis other than that of adolescence.

Baby talk on the grass in the park: "Because I want to go back on some rides" is a learned dynamic in this family. Craig probably hasn't had consistent expectations and consequences in his family and has been able to eventually get his own way most of the time. As the video said: he's bigger now and there's the problem.

Where's Dad?: was the mom taking pot shot's at Craig's birth father when she was on the phone and trying to push him out of the house?

Medication: does the video ever show the positive effects of medication for poor Cragi? If you note any past the nine minute mark, would you mind just letting me know at which minute you observe them. This video is too upsetting to watch very much of.

Noodlzzz, what was the purpose of showing this distorted video? To ridicule the NHS?

KFC in CA
02-23-09, 04:36 PM
Imnapl, I did not see any reflection of med benefits throughout the show. Not once did they show Craig before and after dosing. That in itself is odd since I'd expect such a comparison if the show were really on ADHD.

Imnapl
02-23-09, 05:19 PM
Imnapl, I did not see any reflection of med benefits throughout the show. Not once did they show Craig before and after dosing. That in itself is odd since I'd expect such a comparison if the show were really on ADHD.Me too, especially because the danger of medication was mentioned at the get go. I smell smarmy journalism. Thanks for not making me watch it, KFC. :cool:

sparkles
02-23-09, 06:12 PM
Sparkles, did this come from a commercial therapy program?


It was a referral from our psychologist when she was 8yrs old. Until now she never showed any signs so I never did it. She did well in school. The psychologist said that the problems would show in later years and so it was.

I remembered the place and tracked them down.

Note: My daughter tells me that the signs were there since 3rd grade apparent to only her but she didn't know they weren't normal and she still has trouble expressing them now 9 years later.

She had started using compensatory skills on her own from very young that's why it wasn't a problem yet until now.

roseblood
02-23-09, 06:45 PM
His mood instability seemed primarily reactive to not getting his way. This is more symptomatic of a personality disorder than bipolar disorder. Bipolar mood instability can be reactive but it often is independent of any events. Also, by 14 he would have started having periods of significant depression that were apropos of nothing. His "suicidality" appeared to be tied to anger or in response to not getting what he wanted. That is very different.
Yes, but it seems consistent with what I've read of pediatric bipolar disorder: http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/guide/adhd-versus-bipolar-disorder

Though both ADHD and bipolar disorder have an anger component, the tantrums of a kid with ADHD are usually born out of frustration or overstimulation; any destructiveness is also unintentional and a result of carelessness.
With a bipolar child, anger is explosive and extreme and usually triggered when a parent or other authority figure attempts to set limits; destructiveness is often intentional. A kid with bipolar disorder can sustain his rage for as long as two hours, whereas one with ADHD can usually be calmed down within 20-30 minutes.

And the depressive episodes are also relatively brief - ultradian cycling.

noodlzzz
02-23-09, 07:11 PM
I totally agree with the craig kid video. He probably has ODD and its being potrayed as ADHD.
I posted it to see what others thought, I also found it interesting to actually see there are other people out there (if not a bit stereotypical and distorted)

mctavish23
02-23-09, 09:05 PM
Thanks for all of the feedback.

I enjoyed reading the different viewpoints.

Just as an fyi, there's data supporting ADHD as contributing to and likley causing ODD.

In addition, ADHD is listed in the DSM-IV TR as one of the "Disruptive Disorders."

Also included in those are 313.81 ODD, 312.9 Disruptive Behavior Disorder Not Otherwise

Specified (NOS) and 312.8 Conduct Disorder (either Childhood or Adolescent Onset

Types).

The other point that came to mind here is that for many years the UK,as well as Europe

in general, theoretically viewed Hyperactivity-Impulsivity as a "rare" phenomena,which

they also felt was associated with Mental Retardation.

My impression is that the UK has moved away from that stance as out dated.

However, some possible residual effect in terms of the attitude towards the disorder,

may still be in play.

Thanks again.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Imnapl
02-24-09, 02:16 PM
It was a referral from our psychologist when she was 8yrs old. Until now she never showed any signs so I never did it. She did well in school. The psychologist said that the problems would show in later years and so it was.Did the psychologist give you a report of his findings?

KFC in CA
02-24-09, 02:58 PM
Yes, but it seems consistent with what I've read of pediatric bipolar disorder: http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/guide/adhd-versus-bipolar-disorder


And the depressive episodes are also relatively brief - ultradian cycling.
Possible, and if they were feeding him Ritalin, it would have made it worse.

Although we don't see enough in the show, based on what I saw, I'm still inclined to disagree for a few reasons.

There are an increasing number of studies that identify depression as a more dominant state even in childhood bipolar. Craig did not display much of anything that passed for depression. Anger, angry suicidal threats, yes. I need to die, none. By 14, those periods would have been very recognizable.

Although only a single case, the bipolar kid I babysat (family friends) popped out of the womb very hyper. By 6-7, he'd cycle thru spaz, ragey, depressed. He cycled. He was not dominantly angry or raging or destructive. Well, he broke a lot of stuff, but usually it was carelessness, not anger. He also would be euphoric and at other times miserably and inconsolably overwhelmed with sadness.

Again based on a study and anecdotal data from adults I know who were bipolar children or have bipolar children... the ultraridian cycling typically slows to less than a day around puberty.

I do agree it's possible that Craig has bipolar, but if so, it clearly involves more than just a mood disorder. Bipolar isn't about one angry emotion after another. It also isn't about constant bad behavior. These are mostly what I saw in Craig.

Oh, one other point, Craig did well at the behavioral school. That's to be expected for behavioral problems. Bipolar that is of an ultraridian nature would not significantly change in cycling due to a change in scenary.

crazycat1990
09-18-10, 05:10 PM
The first one with Craig I started to watch once before but couldn't, it makes ADHD look so bad and he clearly has other issues, and he was annoying me :p

The second one I watched a few times and enjoyed. I don't get why people are saying the girl may not actually have ADHD? :confused:

EDIT: Are people talking about the girl in the first video? Silly me!

Adduce
04-23-13, 04:59 AM
Interesting findings regarding the Panorama documentary 'What Next for Craig'.

Quite a wall of text but quick summary on page 5.

www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/appeals/esc_bulletins/2010/panorama.pdf (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/appeals/esc_bulletins/2010/panorama.pdf)