View Full Version : Is anyone on here actually on Desoxyn?


chamaleon
04-01-09, 01:20 PM
Someone yesterday pointed out on here that Desoxyn is the strongest stimulant you can get for ADHD, and is only used in severe cases where nothing else has worked.

It is alleged that it is not wildly dissimilar to crystal meth either (could be total rubbish and I welcome you to correct me), but the chemical compounds are similar are they not? and the chemical name 'methamphetamine' is the same for both, except one is street meth and one is pharm meth.

anyways, is anyone's ADHD so bad that they take Desoxyn every day? What is your dosage? Dont you find it very addictive, and how did the other traditional meds like Concerta and Adderall affect you?

thanks, im just curious.

mbm1512
04-02-09, 10:09 PM
I am. I just started it last month. I honestly asked for it semi-jokingly. I mean I wasn't joking with him but I didn't think he would even consider it. But surprisingly he didn't even blink when I asked and I got the prescription. So I tried it, I liked it, and I got it again this month. It is extremely expensive, 400 monthly, but I have great insurance till I'm out of college so I doubt I will continue use after I graduate. To be honest the only reason I take it still is because it has less side effects than adderall. Adderall just physically is hard for me to take, I'm a big athletic guy and it takes alot to be an effective dose. What used to take me 60-90mg of adderall only now needs about 25-30mg of this. BUT, before you get excited know its downsides. First, it is alot less effective in some ways. Methamphetamine affects different parts of your brain than adderall. I talked to my dr. and I guess that Adderall works more with norepinephrine which affects your adrenal gland and methamphetamine is more 5-htp receptors I believe, which is more euphoria. Anyways, adderall is MUCH more effective for studying and trying to do schoolwork if thats why you take it. In fact adderall makes me want to do those things sometimes. While Desoxyn doesn't give me any more drive to do unchallenging/boring things I still have to make myself motivate. Also, I am very precautious before I try anything so I have done LOTS of reading in the past 2 months while on it. I have increase vegetables and fruits by 100% and I drink much more water. I also have to chew gum sometimes because you grind your teeth very hard, at least I do. It is rather physically draining, and sometimes it lasts longer than I want it to, rather I just can't sleep because my heartrate. I have also recently oncovered on a couple of websites like webmd.com and drugs.com as a side note that it is only recommended that individuals take the medicine for 6 weeks at a time. But, I am not a professional, these are just my takes on the experience so far. Overall, I like the effects, I like the low mental side effects, and I like the high energy. I do not like the excessive price, the wierd dose sizes, the length it lasts, or the physical side effects (no sleep, no eat, etc.) Hope this helps

watts
04-03-09, 05:58 AM
In regards to only taking it for 6 weeks at a time-- In the past Desoxyn was commonly used as a tool in weight loss and patients were using the medication as a short term tool, but this outdated 6 weeks at a time isn't when it's used for adhd or narcolepsy.

SuzzanneX
04-03-09, 08:34 AM
I was told adderrall is stronger...
....simply because 5 mlgrams of desoxyn to a meth addict = whole bottle in one day.

I take my cure, and I don't look back.

mbm1512
04-03-09, 01:05 PM
I kinda sidestepped a few of your questions that I'll answer. First off, yes I find it easier to abuse this than abuse adderall. The pills are really small they come in large quantities of about 160, so its easy to take a few more, if you have addiction problems i wouldn't recommend this. But, Adderall does exactly what it's supposed to do for me. I go through everyday life fine on it, but personally I have alot of side effects from Adderall. If I could choose the effects of one drug for my ADHD i would go with adderall. But I have to take alot of adderall, and it disrupts my workout schedule, etc. since my heart rate is high. Desoxyn, when taken as prescribed, I only need about 25 to 30 mg, but I still have physical side effects just not as intense as Adderall. I would describe desoxyns effects as much more calming than Adderall. I end up just sitting around sometimes enjoying random things, instead of doing what I need to be doing, which wouldn't happen on adderall. I was kinda sketched out about the whole idea of taking it at first, but my dr. explained that when taken properly, methamphetamine is not much if any worse than amphetamine (and he noted that MDMA is by far the most destructive of the 3). He said that methamphetamine is easier to make from readily available products than amphetamine, so meth is the one that is predominantly manufactured illegally. Which i guess is why it gets a bad rep. If amphetamine was easy to make it would be the one illegal and methamphetamine would be more theratpeutically used is what he was saying. But if you do get it, make sure to take care of your body. MA is no joke, and its tightly regulated for a reason. Is it worth the 400 bucks? Meh, probably not

merovingian
04-06-09, 10:14 PM
Someone yesterday pointed out on here that Desoxyn is the strongest stimulant you can get for ADHD, and is only used in severe cases where nothing else has worked.
Well, I'm not sure how one defines the "strongest stimulant" you can get for ADHD, I assume it means mg for mg what it takes to achieve "optimal clinical response", I'm not sure why the number of mg required to do this is important. I can tell you that it's not prescribed for ADHD as a last option when nothing else has worked. It is considered a "second line" treatment for obesity, it's effective treatment for this is short (6 weeks or less) as tolerance develops quickly and it is not recommended long term use, probably due to the need for increasingly higher doses required for reduced appetite.

It is alleged that it is not wildly dissimilar to crystal meth either (could be total rubbish and I welcome you to correct me), but the chemical compounds are similar are they not? and the chemical name 'methamphetamine' is the same for both, except one is street meth and one is pharm meth.

D-Methamphetamine is the right hand isomer of the racmic crystal meth. Since D-Methamphetamine is the more centrally acting component, Desoxyn is made only of the left hand isomer resulting in less "side effects" and twice as "strong" as pure Crystal Meth for the "prescribed effects".

anyways, is anyone's ADHD so bad that they take Desoxyn every day? What is your dosage? Dont you find it very addictive, and how did the other traditional meds like Concerta and Adderall affect you?

My attention deficit isn't THAT bad, I find that Desoxyn seems to simply work better for me. I have less unwanted side-effects on it than Adderall and as a previous poster mentioned, Adderall is better at doing things that you would not otherwise feel motivated to do and therefore more able to focus on them, reading Legal Documents, studying for a class you are required to take to graduate but aren't that interested in, paying attention in class, etc. Adderall comes at a price for me, it dampens my creativity and the outside the box thinking that have made me successful in many important aspects of my life. Desoxyn for me seems to require more discipline to harness my focus but more rewarding in both the quality and the efficiency of my work and at the same time I feel able to relax and enjoy myself social settings.

My current daily dosage is 20mg, I'm increasing it by 5mg daily every week until I reach an "optimal clinical response". I figure by increasing the dosage I might have even better results as I've only been taking the medication for about a month.

As far as addiction goes, I take weekends off and don't feel any "come down" which is a good sign and I don't have an addictive personality. I am however very cautious and I'm more concerned about building up a tolerance. I'm addressing both issues by keeping in touch with my doctor frequently and doing my own research.

I recommend reading a book that is required reading for Biology 1A (Freshman Bio) at Caltech called Drugs and the Brain (http://www.amazon.com/Drugs-Brain-Scientific-American-Library/dp/0716760177) by Solomon H. Snyder for anyone taking or interested in any psychoactive drug.

As far as my research goes, at this point I feel fairly confident that I will be cycling at least 2 drugs to deal with my ADD to mitigate tolerance development to Desoxyn provided that my Doc thinks it's a good idea. I'm currently looking at a dopamine transporter blocker such as Focalin and a short half-life SSRI such as Lexapro for times I'm not on Desoxyn to keep me even keel chemically. I'm also considering taking supplements L-5 HTP/Tryptophan, L-Tyrosine and an anti-oxidant such as vitamin C in addition to my meds to both minimize neurotoxicity and increase my medications effectiveness. Alas, my research is far from complete but I should have something worth while to post after I talk to my Doc.

mbm1512
04-07-09, 01:54 AM
good idea. Im on 5-htp but none others

merovingian
04-07-09, 05:54 AM
good idea. Im on 5-htp but none others
Cool, how/why did you decide to go with 5-HTP and how is it working out for you? Also, what dose and how often do you take it? I don't mean to pry, I'm just curious. :)

mbm1512
04-07-09, 09:27 AM
uh, I am not sure of dose size. But I started taking it because a couple of my roommates got into the "clubbing" scene and taking molly. They're both biologists and were all about taking 5-htp after. I was looking at comparisons on the brain between MA and MDMA and it made sense. It's good I guess, its kind of more of a "i hope this is doing something" thing. Although sometimes when I take it later in the day it will rejuvenate the effects of Desoxyn.

merovingian
04-07-09, 11:48 PM
uh, I am not sure of dose size. But I started taking it because a couple of my roommates got into the "clubbing" scene and taking molly. They're both biologists and were all about taking 5-htp after. I was looking at comparisons on the brain between MA and MDMA and it made sense. It's good I guess, its kind of more of a "i hope this is doing something" thing. Although sometimes when I take it later in the day it will rejuvenate the effects of Desoxyn.
Heh, yeah that's about what I figured. Basically L-Tyrosine is to dopamine as 5-HTP is to Serotonin. Your biologist friends might be well advised to read a chapter 7 of that book I posted above and consider what impact an SSRI and the right anti-oxidant in addition to the 5-HTP might have on their health after a night out "clubbing". ;)

Contrapunctus
04-08-09, 08:58 PM
Well, I'm not sure how one defines the "strongest stimulant" you can get for ADHD, I assume it means mg for mg what it takes to achieve "optimal clinical response", I'm not sure why the number of mg required to do this is important. I can tell you that it's not prescribed for ADHD as a last option when nothing else has worked. It is considered a "second line" treatment for obesity, it's effective treatment for this is short (6 weeks or less) as tolerance develops quickly and it is not recommended long term use, probably due to the need for increasingly higher doses required for reduced appetite.



D-Methamphetamine is the right hand isomer of the racmic crystal meth. Since D-Methamphetamine is the more centrally acting component, Desoxyn is made only of the left hand isomer resulting in less "side effects" and twice as "strong" as pure Crystal Meth for the "prescribed effects".


My current daily dosage is 20mg, I'm increasing it by 5mg daily every week until I reach an "optimal clinical response". I figure by increasing the dosage I might have even better results as I've only been taking the medication for about a month.

As far as my research goes, at this point I feel fairly confident that I will be cycling at least 2 drugs to deal with my ADD to mitigate tolerance development to Desoxyn provided that my Doc thinks it's a good idea. I'm currently looking at a dopamine transporter blocker such as Focalin and a short half-life SSRI such as Lexapro for times I'm not on Desoxyn to keep me even keel chemically. I'm also considering taking supplements L-5 HTP/Tryptophan, L-Tyrosine and an anti-oxidant such as vitamin C in addition to my meds to both minimize neurotoxicity and increase my medications effectiveness. Alas, my research is far from complete but I should have something worth while to post after I talk to my Doc.

D-meth, as found in Desoxyn (right-handed isomer, not left), is not exactly "twice as strong" as pure "crystal meth". First, crystal meth can be either racemic (or a ratio aside from 50:50), or pure d-meth. Meth made from phenylacetone (P2P) yields racemic meth; meth made from pseudoephedrine yields an enantiomerically pure drug. Also, d,l-meth likely "feels" quite different than d-meth, as it is inevitably far more stimulating (keep in mind, l-meth is far from inactive!).

I was prescribed Desoxyn, yet I haven't taken much of it; I prefer d-amphetamine or in some circumstances, focalin. Plus, I have concerns about the potential dopaminergic and serotenergic toxicity (regardless of ic50's, meth releases far more dopamine than d-amp).

merovingian
04-09-09, 02:19 AM
D-meth, as found in Desoxyn (right-handed isomer, not left), is not exactly "twice as strong" as pure "crystal meth". First, crystal meth can be either racemic (or a ratio aside from 50:50), or pure d-meth. Meth made from phenylacetone (P2P) yields racemic meth; meth made from pseudoephedrine yields an enantiomerically pure drug. Also, d,l-meth likely "feels" quite different than d-meth, as it is inevitably far more stimulating (keep in mind, l-meth is far from inactive!).

I was prescribed Desoxyn, yet I haven't taken much of it; I prefer d-amphetamine or in some circumstances, focalin. Plus, I have concerns about the potential dopaminergic and serotenergic toxicity (regardless of ic50's, meth releases far more dopamine than d-amp).
Thank you, I agree with the correction/claification. I also share your concerns about dopaminergic and serotenergic toxicity aswell as if/how some of the potential dangers can be mitigated which is central to my current research. I guess this stuff just works so much better for me than Ritalin and Adderall but perhaps it would be more prudent to give the other meds a try before deciding Desoxyn is for me. Basically, I'm thinking of trying d-amp and focaline, are there any others you might recommend?

D.B. Cooper
04-09-09, 06:47 PM
Yes, they're the same drug.

Black market methamphetamine is almost always dextro in the US simply because most of it only comes from a few major sources. The myth of the redneck trailer meth cook is completely bunk so the only variance in product is how its cut.

Alot of these guys that take desoxyn only take about 25mg a day, the average methamphetamine user would take 250mg in one whack. Also, the route of ingestion is key to how much damage it does to someone. Oral administration is relatively benign when talking about neurotoxicity but IV use is extremely neurotoxic.

Yellow
05-19-09, 12:25 AM
ANYONE here on desoxyn AND an SSRI/SNRI?

person2person
07-26-09, 02:45 PM
It is alleged that it is not wildly dissimilar to crystal meth either (could be total rubbish and I welcome you to correct me), but the chemical compounds are similar are they not? and the chemical name 'methamphetamine' is the same for both, except one is street meth and one is pharm meth.

if you had really high quality street meth... it would be exactly the same as desoxyn.

they are the same chemical. EXACTLY the same. whether it's made by glaxosmithkline or jimbob it's the exact same chemical.

99 times out of 100 however street meth is of low purity, containing other "cuts" and fillers which are often psychoactive (caffeine, ephedra, pseudoephedrine, d-amph, adderall) and rarely are meth labs skilled enough to attain high purity product so a lot of the pseudoephedrine and reaction intermediates are left in the final product.

but generally if you take the crystalline version of street meth (ice) you're getting the very same thing you'd get at a pharmacy, except its' just the raw product not the capsules. and 5mg in powdered form is about 1/5th or 1/10th of the average hit of street meth.

as a therapeutic agent, just like everything else, when used as prescribed it's not that evil, but the potential for abuse is great, and when using it to get high you're taking probably 30-50+ mg in a single hit (smoked, snorted, or injected) for a novice drug user. as opposed to 5mg dosages in the capsules taken orally, which makes a substantial difference in the toxictiy and abuse potential for the drug.

person2person
07-26-09, 02:47 PM
The myth of the redneck trailer meth cook is completely bunk so the only variance in product is how its cut.



ha, not a myth, it's just usually a suburb not a trailer park...

The Reanimator
07-27-09, 03:53 AM
but generally if you take the crystalline version of street meth (ice) you're getting the very same thing you'd get at a pharmacy, except its' just the raw product not the capsules.
Actually, as is the case with many street drugs, what you see has almost nothing to do with what you get. Anyone can take a bag of yellow, dirty looking, nearly pure d-meth, melt it, add their cut, and recrystallize it to make some very nice looking clear shards of nearly pure bull****.

KillZone
08-21-09, 08:09 PM
(and he noted that MDMA is by far the most destructive of the 3)

Actually it isn't.

KillZone
08-21-09, 08:12 PM
As far as addiction goes, I take weekends off and don't feel any "come down" which is a good sign and I don't have an addictive personality.

A comedown has nothing to do with addiction. It is nothing more then the fact that your brain is drained.

KillZone
08-21-09, 08:21 PM
, and when using it to get high you're taking probably 30-50+ mg in a single hit (smoked, snorted, or injected) for a novice drug user. as opposed to 5mg dosages in the capsules taken orally, which makes a substantial difference in the toxictiy and abuse potential for the drug.

More like 250-500+ at a time. I would think that would be overkill though. I have heard that taking 20mg's of Desoxyn gives a way better euphoria then 80+mg of adderall. Which just blows my mind even more. I get a moderate one at 20mg and a bigger one at 40mg (Once for a big test).

PedroDaGr8
08-27-09, 12:18 PM
D-meth, as found in Desoxyn (right-handed isomer, not left), is not exactly "twice as strong" as pure "crystal meth". First, crystal meth can be either racemic (or a ratio aside from 50:50), or pure d-meth. Meth made from phenylacetone (P2P) yields racemic meth; meth made from pseudoephedrine yields an enantiomerically pure drug. Also, d,l-meth likely "feels" quite different than d-meth, as it is inevitably far more stimulating (keep in mind, l-meth is far from inactive!).

I was prescribed Desoxyn, yet I haven't taken much of it; I prefer d-amphetamine or in some circumstances, focalin. Plus, I have concerns about the potential dopaminergic and serotenergic toxicity (regardless of ic50's, meth releases far more dopamine than d-amp).

Excellent discussion, what he said is QUITE true. The phenyl acetone method is the one that involves the use of anhydrous ammonia. Due to the nature of the reaction, essentially 50:50 ratios of d/l will occur. This is due to the fact that both reactants are achiral. Therefore, it is QUITE difficult to induce stereochemistry in the products. In the psuedoephedrine method psuedoephedrine is a particular stereoisomer, which means that unless somehow the chirality is destroyed, the particular isomer will be retained (or inverted) in the final compound.

Another route likely to be used would be using a stereoisomer of phenylalanine to make meth. By converting the -COOH to -CH3 one would essentially have meth. I am sure someone has done this.