I went to my Psych yesterday. After 2 hours of testing and questioning, I was diagnosed with ADHD(not to my surprise). I noticed he was very "lax" on what medication I should use. He asked me if I had ever self medicated with cocaine or speed and if so which one was my greatest weakness (that I liked the most). I have not self medicated with those drugs and I am not sure how that would effect what he prescribed to me. Later I started to think about it and Please correct me if I am wrong.

He said there was 3 basic types of medications used like:
1) Ritalin (methylphenidate)
2) Adderal (amphetamines salts)
3) Stratara (antidepressants)

Does methylphenidate act more like Cocaine and the Amphetamines more like Speed?

Just curious if anyone knows from experience. My doctor said it was very common for ADD people to abuse these kinds of drugs and once they are prescribed a medication that helps they usually do not abuse them.
I worry about my son and drug abuse as he grows up. My sister abused these types of drugs and I am wondering if she is also ADHD.

This link refers to the abuse of Ritalin and explains that it is similar to Cocaine.
http://www.iprc.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/factline/ritalin.html

In my opinion. People do not use drug's because it's already in the family. My father was a drug addict, my brother abused pot and I had a sister who almost killed herself on Crystal Meth. But, my parent's still raised a lot of other kid's who have never touched narcs of any kind. One of my sister's will not use pain killer's of any kind but tylenol and novacaine because of the fear.

I do however think it very important to inform your son that he is more susceptable to becoming a user and that he must alway's treat all drugs with respect and take them correctly as prescribed.

My children and I have gone to many workshop's about drug and alcohol abuse...will this help? I wish I had an answer for you but my children have not gotten to an age were peer pressure is significant...so unfortunatly I may be doing exactly the wrong thing. That's the problem with kid's in the end you can only pray you taught them right and gave them the skill's needed to say NO and mean it.

I do wish you all the best of luck and hope you find just the right med for you. While we use talk therapy and the children have coaches thru the school system we do not use med's for control of ADD symptoms. Mind you that if it became necessary I would have NO trouble what so ever making sure my kid's were given the right med. It's my responsibility to give my children every opportunity to excell the rest is up to them.

A pharmacist would be a good bet for knowlegable answers as to the effects of each of the drugs you mention.

My experience shows that the primary element in my own troubles with addiction stem from long standing issues surrounding self esteem.

At least for the medication questions you might want to repost some of these questions to the "medications" forum here if you don't get answers that help you in this forum.

I really don't know much about the drugs themselves.. just how to go to hell and back abusing them.. Life is better now.. < vbg >

Any time you have questions about abuse of substances I hope anyone would feel free to post here or to send me a note privately if you are uncomfortable posting to the forum.

Cheers! Ian.

My son is also very ADHD type and my older son is mildly ADD, my husband is ADD inattentative. Our house is in chaos most of the time. Hopefully we can all find a medication that works best for all of us. I just thought it was strange that the doctor mentioned self medication and the effects of hard drugs such as speed and cocaine. I think any abuse is repetitive in families if the cycle is not broken at some point and I think we are all different and some of us may be less suceptible to abuse because of our mindset or personalities. Everything effects our lives in some way ... how we handle it is another story.

Originally posted by akiss4u


Does methylphenidate act more like Cocaine and the Amphetamines more like Speed?

Just curious if anyone knows from experience. My doctor said it was very common for ADD people to abuse these kinds of drugs and once they are prescribed a medication that helps they usually do not abuse them.
I worry about my son and drug abuse as he grows up. My sister abused these types of drugs and I am wondering if she is also ADHD.


Your doctor is correct. Speed is also known as "meth", short for methanphetamine, which is also prescribed for ADD as Desoxyn or Desoxyn Spansule.

I recovered from a cocaine addiction 16 years ago when I was in college, and for most of that time I used it was more to "feel normal" than it was to "get high". I can remember times before finals where I would use just so that I could focus and study and stop being distracted in the library. I never liked meth, but coke always made more "feel more even". After several years of using though it got out of hand and I had to stop. Thankfully, I was able to overcome and I've been sober for 16 years (almost 40 now), but I'm still struggling with treating my condition in a way that doesn't involve stimulants or SxRIs (too many side effects and complications).

KenO:

I am really sorry about your difficult time. Have you found any medical help for your ADD?

I found a bunch of MDs who will write prescriptions, but no one who really understands the condition, let alone for adults, and who can provide comprehensive treatment with a full understanding of the condition.

But I'm not going to be deterred, and am channelling my over-focus tendencies to finding the best possible solution.

Oh, and no need to be sorry because this isn't really that difficult of a time, now 20 years ago that was a different story, but I've learned a great deal and developed some great coping skills. At this point its more about optimizing and fufilling my potential than dealing with an immediate crisis.

As an adult still struggling with ADHD, I hope to help my ADHD son by experiementing on myself first. Neither of us have taken any Meds yet. I am going to try my Ritalin LA soon and I know medication is not the one and only thing. However it may help.

Cocaine is serious business. My dad has a friend he met at a church group who has been addicted for over 30 years. My sister is a smart, beautiful girl, who won Miss Kansas at 20 and she also battled cocaine and won. She is taking medication now and graduated from college. She is married and working a sales job - living a full life now - she too is ADHD. She has no kids yet because she feers history may repeat in genectics. Our family is full of smart attractive people who struggle with problems just like everyone. We are all human and we all have our strengths and weaknesses that vary - but hey thats what makes us special RIGHT. Take your best qualities and run with them - give it all you can becuase guess what life is too short to waist. HUGS TO YOU!

An addictive personality is very common in ADHD people - it's all about impulse control, as well as low self-esteem, which is common side effect of ADHD. Poor impulse control, low self-esteem and drugs that give an "escape" can add up to a big problem if left to naturally run their course. It's no wonder self medication is so common. I thankfully didn't run with anyone in school (I was in the nerd group) who would have given my easy access to cocaine or meth - hell I didn't start smoking grass til I was past university and it's good thing too! - because I definately have an additive personality. Never tried them for just that reason.
If there's an addiction that is going to kill me, however, it's an addiction to food!
My ADHD Dr wasn't worried at all about potential substance abuse - I guess he knew that the ritalin would help that rather than make any problem worse.
So far I find that ritalin gives me a level of impulse control that I didn't think I had in me! I have completely stopped binge eating and my smoking has decreased dramatically.

>Does methylphenidate act more like Cocaine and the Amphetamines more like Speed?
Acutally, yes. This comes from http://www.biopsychiatry.com/ which is an interesting web site, but I'm not sure it's completely accurate, but I haven't found any technical mistakes yet.
"Whereas cocaine blocks the neuronal re-uptake of the catecholamine neurotransmitters noradrenaline and dopamine, amphetamine triggers to a much greater extent their synaptic release. It feels coarser, lasts longer and costs less."
"In spite of its structural relationship to amphetamine, methylphenidate resembles in many ways a benign version of cocaine, yet with a much longer half-life. It blocks the reuptake, but doesn't significantly release, the catecholamines noradrenaline and dopamine."
This is an oversimplification of course.
I'd imagine the Dr's question was aimed at finding out if one mode of action worked better than another. Methylphenidate being a reuptake inhibitor and amphetamines being an agonist (I think?).
Greg

Wow. I can't believe your doctor actually asked you what your greatest weakness in regards to drugs was and is considering supplying you with some more of it. I have never heard of that before.

I can barely get Wellbutrin prescribed to me.

I think he was searching for addiction problems and checking to see if I had ever self medicated. I have never tried any drugs - I am way too fearfull of bad reactions and the law! I doubt he would have prescribed me any medication if I were an addict. He did tell me a 45 year old female was diagnosed with ADHD and she said she had abused (self medicated) methanphetamine in highschool for a year and tried cocaine but did not like it's effects. She said the methanphetamine helped her get through her senior year and graduate. He also shared that she did well with Adderal but very poor with Ritalin. That is why I wondered if there were some kind of chemical similarities in Ritialin is like cocaine and Adderal is like methanphetamine. Just curious what you all had to say about it. I am on a huge research hyperfocus deal with all this ADHD stuff right now so parden my strange curiousness....
I guess it is just the investigative side of me.

I am on a huge research hyperfocus deal with all this ADHD stuff right now so parden my strange curiousness....

There is nothing strange about your curiousness. We've all been there and there is NO other way better to deal with ADD then to know thy enemy. I think your taking huge leaps in the right direction. Good luck and slap on the back for a job well done.

I read something that made me very angry in my research! I don't think I will post it here because it really isnt the right area. I will post it under medications general area. You should check it out...

I'll do that and please keep in mind that everyone is different and view's on ADD and meds differ. Your going to run into a lot of thing's that will anger and offend you it's normal happen's to me all the time. I even offend people without knowing it with some of my own view's.

Send me the link in case I should happen to miss it.

www ritalindeath com

Yeah...many of us have seen it.

Its sad that he lost his son, but he's really made it his mission in life to spread lots of misinformation about Ritalin.

akiss4u,
i see, that makes sense. he sounds like a good doctor. i'm seeing one that's really good-- thank god i could bring myself to be honest with him, otherwise i'd be in high heaven on some adderrall right now.

i think it's really awesome that you haven't gotten into drugs. Definitely keep it that way! I'd give anything to go back and do it all over again. But, at the same time, I wouldn't be the person I am today-- so maybe not.

BIG:
You are so true on that and some people are close minded or with an alterior motive like selling a product.


clueless:
You are stronger now that you know your weaknesses!

KENO

There are no more DESOXYN (SPANSULES) actually they were called GRADUMETS, 5mg, 10mg, 15mg available. Abott labs quit making em 5 or so years back.

Now all there is are 5mg IR tabs, and they are seldom prescribed (cause of their nortirous chemical name)

My narcoleptic frend took them for 40years4-15mg Graduamets 60mgs daily!, and he suffers no ill effects today.

Now he takes 4-5mgIR tabs 4x a day for a total of an unbelievable 80mgs!! with 600mgs Provigal

Nothing else keeps him awake

Living PROOF that long-term medical Methamphetamine-use causes no severe long term damage, He is 60 and still works full time.

So all you long term (under medical supervison) Stim users rest assured.

I must say that those drugs unfortunately did help me with my ADD. It made me feel focused and organized and of course with energy. I also found that diet pills do the same efffect. same effect as Ritalin. for me at least.

Self-medicating with stimulant drugs is very common, and I was asked the same thing. It was mentioned above that for ADD (well, me at least) it's an attempt to feel 'normal' more than get a 'high'. The biggest problem though is that many people with ADD also have addictive personalities.

I know this as I 'self medicated' for well over a year and as the addictive side of me took over, I over-self-medicated and surpased the 'normal' feeling. It's interesting, but there comes a point with cocaine where instead of going up, you go completely the opposite direction. Which of course, leads you to take more thinking that'll help.

I have heard that Ritalin is very powerful (never taken it myself), and that many people DO actually do use it like cocaine for its similar properties. This is probably one reason why Ritalin is always under fire from the public.

In any case, I now medicate with 300mgs Wellbuterin SR which seems to do a little better job of not pushing me back down.

Just thought i'd add my own experiances about self medicating with amphetamines! To give a brief history -Im 37 and was dx approx 2 months ago, i was very anti-drugs when younger, started smoking at age 16 (yrs behind my peers) I only drink socially, took my first lot of speed at age 19, and then only recreationally. At 27 i spent a 3yr period of extremely heavy amphete abuse which almost cost me my familly (although the most productive yrs of my life)! I then didnt take any for 6yrs. last yr i persuaded my wife to allow me to self medicate because i just couldn't cope with everything. after a lot of persuasion my wife agreed(much to my suprise) and the last year has been one of the best in my life in regards to my familly and myself.

Im in no way condoning drug use by anyone, but i do think it can help in certain circumstances! In my circumstance for example, i class amphete as being in a familly of drugs i class as "power drugs",cocaine, base, amphete, speed, they enpower the user unlike alcohol or cannabis which has the opposite effect. Up until recently i thought my reaction to amphete was the same as any "normal"(and i use the term very loosely, as to me i'm normal!)persons, its not! In my case it enables me to do the everyday things people take for granted(go to work,play with the kids,housework,write this post, comunicate, with the added bonus of clearing my head and enabling me to focus),Im also in the position of having a very low regard for any of the medical proffession, mainly due to my experiance with them, this is one of the reasons i started self medicating as i didnt have the luxury of being able to rely on them to help.

Now for the warning!!
My self medicating would not of been possible up until a couple of years ago! This is because "bottom line" a drug is a drug!, it can and will take over given the chance!! its only because ive been in the trenches first time round and realised how close i came to losing that which is really important to me, my familly, that im now strong enough or wise enough that it will never be put ahead of them, ever!! I dont mean to sound condescending but its just how i feel, If to keep my familly i had to never take amphete again there wouldnt be any choice, its this fact that helps shield me from becoming an addict!

wow, that was hard work, :D

hope this helps, there's loads more i could say, but cant type worth a damn!

pete

p.s. Always walk tall. :cool:
p.p.s - I take about 1% compaired to my past! :)

hi everyone,
found this site and article that i think explains self medication better than i ever could, hope it helps.

pete.

This is the link Pete was referring to.

http://www.addcentre.co.uk/selfmedcocaine.htm

Cheers! Ian.

Did some coke last night, life is too short to suffer.

T-Bass

I went to my Psych yesterday. After 2 hours of testing and questioning, I was diagnosed with ADHD(not to my surprise). I noticed he was very "lax" on what medication I should use. He asked me if I had ever self medicated with cocaine or speed and if so which one was my greatest weakness (that I liked the most). I have not self medicated with those drugs and I am not sure how that would effect what he prescribed to me. Later I started to think about it and Please correct me if I am wrong.

He said there was 3 basic types of medications used like:
1) Ritalin (methylphenidate)
2) Adderal (amphetamines salts)
3) Stratara (antidepressants)

Does methylphenidate act more like Cocaine and the Amphetamines more like Speed?

Just curious if anyone knows from experience. My doctor said it was very common for ADD people to abuse these kinds of drugs and once they are prescribed a medication that helps they usually do not abuse them.
I worry about my son and drug abuse as he grows up. My sister abused these types of drugs and I am wondering if she is also ADHD.

This link refers to the abuse of Ritalin and explains that it is similar to Cocaine.
http://www.iprc.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/factline/ritalin.html
Thats an amazingly engineered question , that i have been thinking about aswell, and heres why:~ Since I was (I would say) 17 , I have recreationally abused illicit street drugs , such as Crystal Methamphetamine and cocaine and after trying to understand why i love(d)~the drugs so much is because it does in fact make me feel , as if i can accomplish so many more important short term goals and to be able to concentrate on individualized Task's ~I have NEVER been one to use them on a daily basis Nor do i think i would want to (For obvious) reasons. The few times i have , in fact, used Stimulant type medications (not prescribed for me)~it enhanced my entire focus and just literally made me feel like a new person , If it hadint been for that added extra help , im not sure id be where i am today in starting Law school(i say that b/c it is in fact very difficult for me to keep a focused concentration on any one thing - and is to this day , I Just havent taken the initiative to seek a Medical Consultation (and for that , i am entirely at fault)~So to sum it up!!!~ I do think there are very close characteristics in those with ADD/ADHD and the individualized use of illicit Stimulant Drugs in that they have similar properties and effects~Thus i come back to my original question~lol~ If one wanted to see a doctor in regards to the fact that they feel they are ADD/ADHD - and the DR went over there History (entire) - Would the DR be willing to prescribe a Stimulant type medication ? - when you've had an on again off again history of recreationally using either Cocaine or Methamphetamine - any help here would be awesome - !! Much thanks -

I must say that those drugs unfortunately did help me with my ADD. It made me feel focused and organized and of course with energy. I also found that diet pills do the same efffect. same effect as Ritalin. for me at least.
I would have to agree, More so the illicit Drugs (Cocaine, Methamphetamine)~But OTC diet medication is a similar alternative

Just thought i'd add my own experiances about self medicating with amphetamines! To give a brief history -Im 37 and was dx approx 2 months ago, i was very anti-drugs when younger, started smoking at age 16 (yrs behind my peers) I only drink socially, took my first lot of speed at age 19, and then only recreationally. At 27 i spent a 3yr period of extremely heavy amphete abuse which almost cost me my familly (although the most productive yrs of my life)! I then didnt take any for 6yrs. last yr i persuaded my wife to allow me to self medicate because i just couldn't cope with everything. after a lot of persuasion my wife agreed(much to my suprise) and the last year has been one of the best in my life in regards to my familly and myself.

Im in no way condoning drug use by anyone, but i do think it can help in certain circumstances! In my circumstance for example, i class amphete as being in a familly of drugs i class as "power drugs",cocaine, base, amphete, speed, they enpower the user unlike alcohol or cannabis which has the opposite effect. Up until recently i thought my reaction to amphete was the same as any "normal"(and i use the term very loosely, as to me i'm normal!)persons, its not! In my case it enables me to do the everyday things people take for granted(go to work,play with the kids,housework,write this post, comunicate, with the added bonus of clearing my head and enabling me to focus),Im also in the position of having a very low regard for any of the medical proffession, mainly due to my experiance with them, this is one of the reasons i started self medicating as i didnt have the luxury of being able to rely on them to help.

Now for the warning!!
My self medicating would not of been possible up until a couple of years ago! This is because "bottom line" a drug is a drug!, it can and will take over given the chance!! its only because ive been in the trenches first time round and realised how close i came to losing that which is really important to me, my familly, that im now strong enough or wise enough that it will never be put ahead of them, ever!! I dont mean to sound condescending but its just how i feel, If to keep my familly i had to never take amphete again there wouldnt be any choice, its this fact that helps shield me from becoming an addict!

wow, that was hard work, :D

hope this helps, there's loads more i could say, but cant type worth a damn!

pete

p.s. Always walk tall. :cool:
p.p.s - I take about 1% compaired to my past! :)
I completely agree with this article- and what got my attention the most was when you said that - simply by self medicating yourself it enables you to go about with everyday tasks willingly - on what others might concieve as a taken for granted motive-

Im sure not alot of ppl see this as feasible , (as far as mustering up the mental capacity to even want to begin the day with work, school, etc - but it entirely exist and i still go through it which , has ultimatly had an effect on past relationships and otherwise -

Now , I am in no way trying to quote , provide, or even remotely trying to distinguish ANY type of medical advise , but from what i have come to understood from not one , but several ppl - That , because one doesint have the mental clarity to jump to chores everyday , that he is "probably" suffering from some type of Depression (which , for some may be true) -BUT NOT FOR EVERYONE , I RARELY experience depression and there are days i just cannot focus ... (or even have the initiative to want to) NOT DEPRESSED

But , whats an even more dissatisfied thought (for me ) is : When , if ever, I make the decision to see a DR . for what i strongly feel is Adult ADD ~ I stay mentally discouraged due to the fact that , (and this all goes back to this article) - once the DR. and I have gone over a medical History and its known that i have used illicit drugs in the past ~ that he will base desicions on that (and for that , he will "find" either a "DIFFERENT" medical cause for my symptons or none at all - AND i 'LL TELL YOU, THAT IS EXTREMELY DISCOURAGING )

ANYONE??

Josh,
Are you still self-medicating?

thanks in advance-curious to me how cocaine is able to slow me down and allow me to focus-is there anything less destuctive, less expensive, less addictive, and most importantly legal that does the same

i was a benzodiazepine addict for the invalid "anxiety" dx and before that I was a bit of a drinker (grandmother is an alcoholic) but I loved getting "pill drunk" and the genetic part of addiction was a role there but I love the hyperactivity too so when I experimented w/ cocaine it was a reminder of why I hated ritalin and speed is more like "slow" for me... used to smoke pot but got bored with it

thanks in advance-curious to me how cocaine is able to slow me down and allow me to focus-is there anything less destuctive, less expensive, less addictive, and most importantly legal that does the same
Yeah, that's what ADD stimulant drugs are all about. If coke is helping you focus (it did for me) then chances are that one of the legal stimulant drugs will have the same effect with no addiction - though they vary widely in cost.

Yeah, that's what ADD stimulant drugs are all about. If coke is helping you focus (it did for me) then chances are that one of the legal stimulant drugs will have the same effect with no addiction - though they vary widely in cost.There is very little difference between cocaine and methylphenidate (ritalin). The advantage of methylphenidate is that they stay active in the body longer where as cocaine rapidily makes you high but also rapidily brings you down. Researches think this can play a role in why cocaine is addictive.

Is methylphenidate like cocaine? Studies on their pharmacokinetics and distribution in the human brain.
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7771915&dopt=Citation)

Cocaine is still legally manufactured in the US by certain pharmaceutical companies. Concerning its use, I think it may still be used as a topical analgesic (I may be wrong about that), and also for R&D on occasion. Technically cocaine HCL is a schedule II controlled substance in its prescription form, but the illegal version (street version) is a schedule I controlled substance. The same is true with prescription methamphetamine (brand name Desoxyn) which is a schedule II controlled substance, while the illegal version (street version) is a schedule I controlled substrance.

I once asked my Dr. why the prescription cocaine HCL was not used in the treatment of ADD/ADHD, espcecially considering that it still has a legal status as a schedule II drug which puts it in the same class as all the other prescription stimulants used to treat this dissorder (except Cylert). I was told the reason that cocaine HCL is not used for ADD/ADHD is simply because it does not have a long enough half life. It wears off so quickly when compared to the other stimulants, that it simply is not as manageable and therefore not as therapuetic as the other stimulants currently available. That certainlly made sense, but I have often thought that it would be nice if they (pharmaceutical companies) would develop a time released version of the stuff. Considering that everyone seems to respond to these stimulant drugs differently, I happen to believe that the more options available the better. I would assume that there are some people out there who would potentially benefit more from cocaine HCL than other available stimulants, but that is just an assumption based on how different we all respond to these things.

Here is a link to a pharmaceutical company that still makes it:

http://bulkpharm.mallinckrodt.com/_attachments/msds/cocai.htm

i was addicted to coke for 7 years... i could never figure out why it was coke that ruined my life way more than opiates, for example. cause as far as feeling really awesome/"high", shooting opiates won over coke..

after getting diagnosed with ad/hd and being put on concerta (this was while i was still in rehab), i started to think that maybe i was drawn towards the coke because it had the same desired effect as the concerta.

having said that, i wouldn't say coke and ritalin "feel" much like eachother.. but i guess they both affect the way ad/hd works in similar ways. it really ends there. ritalin is not anywhere as addictive as coke, and it's never made me do psychotic, violent things.

it also didn't cause me to spend my university trust fund in under a week :p