View Full Version : Help! ADD & too smart for 504?


amandas_mom
05-03-04, 02:37 PM
Hi,

I have a 13 year old daughter. She is getting ready to enter public high school in the fall.

We knew something was up in 3rd grade when she was doing homework until 10-11 p.m. We started then asking teachers for help. She even went to see the guidance counselor at her school. We got nowhere.

In fourth grade, we transferred her to another school. Unfortunately, there was no improvement. Finally, 15 months ago, we decided to have her meet with psychologist and try to find out what was going on.

She was diagnosed with ADD Inattentive type. She is taking Adderal XR. The improvement in her grades is one that cheesy commercials are made of.

Upon notification of the diagnosis, the school said they didn't see it was necessary for her to have an IEP or 504 plan. At this point, we gave up on the school system. We thought that we would meet with the high school guidance counselor and principal and let them know the situation.

We have, after begging, a meeting scheduled for tomorrow. We should be happy, right? No. We have already been told that she is to bright to have an IEP or fall under a 504 plan. Her grades have gone from d's - f's to a's - b's. Her IQ is in the 130s.

Is this possible? The ADD does still affect her schoolwork. If she forgets her paper in her locker or at home, she gets a zero which pulls the grade down. All we are asking is that she be allowed to go to her locker to get an assignment if she forgets it before class, or to call home if she has forgotten it at home.

At this point we have given up on the school system being there for our daughter. If they had done what we begged of them to begin with she would have the IEP or 504 in place. Because we gave up and went outside the system, she is now too smart?

Any recommendations you could give for me to bring up in the meeting would be most appreciated. This is a first for us and we want to be prepared. We only want something in place before there is a problem.

Sheila

Andrew
05-03-04, 02:49 PM
Sheila,

Have you contacted your State Advocate? You can find the one for your State at: http://www.bigsplace.com/advocate

S/He will be able to explain your child's rights to you. Also, an excellent source of information on your child's rights under IEPs and 504 can be found at www.wrightslaw.com

Penultimate
05-03-04, 03:04 PM
As a general rule, you donít have to be failing to get accommodations.

amandas_mom
05-03-04, 03:47 PM
Thank you so much! I look forward to reading the different threads and learning more. I only wish it hadn't taken so long to find you all. :)

If anyone else has anything to add, please do so.

Sheila

pershingd
05-03-04, 03:49 PM
As a teacher, I have seen my share of people who qualified for a 504, but the school refused to give one. I'm not sure why, but I'm almost certain that it has to do with funding and the enforcement of the accomodations. It took a parent with a lawyer to get our school to accept a 504 from another district.

I know that it speaks sadly of public education. Follow Big's advice and get an advocate. Things suddenly go much smoother.

David

Tara
05-03-04, 03:53 PM
The school does not have the choice legally if she has AD/HD they must allow for accomodations under section 504. They may be correct about her not qualifying for an IEP assuming they actually have current testing to refer to.

Tara
05-03-04, 04:07 PM
I worked as a special ed assistant in a public middle school. I was able to attend some of the IEP and 504 meetings. There was one meeting I was at that a school admin suggested that a student be taken off of an 504 because she WAS doing well.

I think the admin actually thought that it was good thing for the student. It made no sense to me because the student still had the same disability.

504's require the school system to do a bit of paperwork. It can also come back to bite them if a student does not receive the accomdation that are written into the 504.

amandas_mom
05-03-04, 04:32 PM
Thank you. I have sent an email to my state advocate. I hope she responds soon. I am still reeling from the school psychologist asking "What's the big deal?"

I suppose it is because I have ADD. I don't have an official diagnosis but after talking to the psych that did my daughter's testing and reading as much as I can about it, I am sure that is what has been 'wrong' with me all these years.

I just don't want her to suffer the same as I did through high school.

Sheila

Hockey Mom
05-06-04, 01:04 PM
Touche!

I am currently working with my son's high school (where I working as a purchasing ***'t) to get his 504 in place. It sometimes is long and involved - but stay firm and know your rights. We have a wonderful dr who will come in and fight for what is right if the school is dragging their feet.

good luck

CJsMOM28
05-11-04, 09:52 PM
I have not been around for a while, glad I stopped by, Interesting thread!

Sheila,


I am going through the same thing with my son, except he is in the third grade. I have mentioned a 504 plan to my sons teacher and his school counselor (they do not have a psychologist) and they say it is very rare that a child can and will recieve one, unless they are very affected by their disability.


My son does not qualitfy for an IEP, his doctor even said not to even try. He makes good grades, he is on a sixth, and fifth grade level on most subjects. Even before meds he made all A's and B's, but focusing, staying on task and all in all just paying attention was hard, he is just a very smart kid.


My Sons problem is he STILL has a hard time focusing, even with his medication, and trust me we have been through a lot of the meds!. The teacher has to tap him on the shoulder occasionally to get him back on track, and his time management skills are awful! That is the main reason why I wanted a "504" was to help him with the time management part.


I was looking for accomadations such as more time on tests or less questions/problems.I'm sure they are looking at his grades and grade level and saying, "yeah right! This kid does'n't need any accomodations". It's so so unfair that a child has to be failing or nearly failing to get these plans!

His EOG tests are starting next week and I don't want him to be anxious next year wondering if he is going to have enough time by having a "504" in place for next year. Bless his heart , today after school he was telling me how worried he was over these tests!

His worrying is making me worry, but I 'm trying to be strong, and NOT less him see! I just told him to do the best he can and that is all the matters, it's not the end of the World,! It stinks what ever questions that he doesn't get to, they are counted wrong.


I talking to this lady the other day, and her Grandson is in Middle school, she said that even on these big end of the year tests, he is allowed extra time because of his plan (can't remember if she said he had an IEP or a 504)

I talked with my sons Developmental Doctor's Nurse the other day and she said that the county we live in was like pulling teeth to get either a "504" or an IEP. It really surprised me because our county has such a good reputation as far as education goes.

I am going to do the same thing and get ahold of my States Advocate, through e-mail or by phone, and get some information. Thank goodness for this forum, I have learned soo much, and I'm sure I will continue to do so!
Sorry for the novel :rolleyes:

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!! keep us posted! :)


Tracy

Hockey Mom
05-11-04, 10:05 PM
Tracy,

Keep on plugging for what you know is right - 504 plans in our district are hard to come by as well - but hopefully with my working there and pushing and knowing my rights it will happen. It will be in place for next year - no help for this year though - we may have lost this one - either summer school or repeat grade.

CJsMOM28
05-11-04, 11:59 PM
Thanks Hockey Mom!


You are lucky to have a Doctor who will fight for you, I like my Sons Doctor pretty well, but I don't think he would go that far for us,(I sure wish!) he is soo busy. He also works alot with autistic children, not to mention being a professor. I hope your Sons Doctor makes a difference for him, I really do. High school is hard enough without the ADHD!


That really really stinks for your Son, having to either repeat a grade or Summer school!Poor guy! Like I mentioned earlier please keep us posted, and keep your head up high! :)


Tracy

Slowpoke
05-28-04, 09:40 PM
HI
I just have to put in my two cents...

first of all, it's ridiculous that in order to get help, you have to be failing or getting low grades. That's basically saying that if you're getting help, you can't be succesful.

second, HAVING A HIGH IQ doesn't mean that you DON'T require help.
***THE DEFINITION OF A LEARNING DISABILITY:
MORE THAN 3 standard deviations difference between IQ and ACHEIVEMENT RATINGS.
this is my case... my IQ was measured at 132 or something like that, my acheivement score was average. BUT because my IQ is higher, there is more than 3 SDs diff...

it means that I'm not achieving my potential.

check into it.

A lot of people are surprised that I have an LD, ADD, and anxiety disorder (social)... I then tell them that I am getting a lot of accomodations and help to enable me to survive life at the level I'm at...
which ranges from being able to go to class, take tests easier, and be able to have the time to think things through for projects.

I have to work hard at things people take for granted... being able to organize things into small steps, being able to decide what needs to be done next etc etc.

So, educate yourself, figure out their argument against it and present them with the supporting documentation.

People with LD are not the people who end up working in low paying, dead-end jobs. We deserve to get the accomodations that will help us learn (meaning understand, process it so we can apply it to other situations in our lives, NOT memorize).

Seek out support in your community and don't give up.
I have had to do this, and I feel great. Backing down and trying to get by is worse

healthwiz
05-29-04, 01:07 AM
In s ome ways a very similar story. Our 2nd grader was having alot of homework, but teachers claimed it was only 30 minutes worth. Then they told us that Abby could not get her work done in class like the other kids. We hired an outside PhD School Psychologist to come to school and observe our daughter in class, in 2nd grade. She reported a well behaved girl who was trying hard all the time to do what she needed to do, but who could not catch the instructions, relied on other kids for details of instructions, etc, and who did her assignments exceedingly slowly. On her recommendatin, we had her fully tested by the same psychologist, to ascertain what the learning differences were. We also had a CAT, a kind of auditory test, and we found she was gifted, high IQ, and specific learning disabled. We took her to a development pediatrician, and further discovered that she had an inherited trait of sleep apnea. We had the surgery done for that, and her grades and attention improved much. Then we went the next step of having Adderal added for ADD diagnosis, and she improved much like you stated, like a commercial. From 3rd - 6th she was in private school, where no 504 plan was necessary. In 7th grade, we had to face the public school system. We wanted her tested for gifted, and the school said there was no point, because she was already placed in all the honors classes. I revisisted the topic with the school psychologist, and he said there was absolutely no reason to do it. So I revisisted the topic with the Head of the Gifted program for the county school system, who has a doctorate in school psychology. She believed that there was merit in my request. My argument was that someday she may need a dual classification of gifted and learning disabled, and I didn't want her to just have the learning disabled classification. She agreed with me. So we went through a process, of giving the school all the testing that was done on her before, getting teacher reports, etc, and finally having a meeting with about 12 teachers or faculty of the public school system, and what do you think came from that? She A) got her status as "gifted" granted and was placed in the gifted program. B) She had a 504 plan created, which gives her 1 extra day on any of her homework assignments and additional time on classroom tests and quizzes. She worked hard to turn her assignments in on time like the other students were expected and therefore only used it modestly, about 3x per gradiing period per class. This saved her grades and her sanity, as she takes longer than other kids, even with medicine, to get her homework done. Due to the 504 plan meeting, her teachers understood Abby's dilemma, and all felt that it was important Abby have a normal after school life, get some sleep, and be given a little extra time on assignments. They really marvelled over the fact that Abby did not abuse the policy and was very courteous about using it minimally. Abby also recieved about 10-20 minutes extra on tests if she needed it, because she writes very slowly.

Abby just finished the year of 7th grade in public school, having completed 9th grade Honors Algebra I which she received HS credit for, all honors classes in her other courses, and acheived a 3.9 GPA for the year. She was also inducted in the National Jr Honor Society, and into the Duke University Summer Program at Apalachian State University. She recieved numerous awards at the award ceremony, getting gold medallions, ribbons, certificates, etc. She took her college SAT tests and did well enough to get accepted into college as well, to take foreign languages. Furthermore, her good performance in school has made her highly competitive for scholarships and in scholar programs who seek gifted youth with high GPAs. A lower GPA would have somewhat hurt her competitiveness for these highly prized scholar programs.

We think, and more importantly, she thinks, the 504 plan enabled her to show herself and the school how intelligent and academically capable she really is. This is why an academically gifted child needs the protection of a 504 plan. An academically gifted child does not seek or dream about so-so performance in school, they dream to soar to the heavens with their skills and talents.

I really support what you are doing for your child, admire that you are fighting for her, the way we have had to fight for our daughter. It is worth going against the grain, against the school, finding an advocate who really believes in your cause, backing it up with testing, etc.

Good luck

Jonathan

triple*eee
08-16-04, 06:51 PM
I spoke with my daughters psychologist a couple of days ago and mentioned this thread. She said that it's the law that they must follow a 504 plan if requested by you. She said that you can't be denied.

Private schools are not required to follow this though, only public schools.

Keep pushing this, ask to speak to the school board if they still give you trouble . If they still don't comply, contact a lawyer.

Denise

pershingd
08-16-04, 09:08 PM
It's amazing how quickly the wheels move when a lawyer shows up.

David

jordiemom
10-21-04, 04:18 PM
Question about advocates
Are these state advocates a listed under Big's website a free service? I did try a Parent Advocacy Group which was free here in my state and was disappointed to find they really weren't trained in helping a parent advocate and did not attend meetings at the school with parents. They gave my name to another parent who had been through it all before and the person never contacted me.
I need someone who understands and can tell me if the school is just trying to put me off or if my son really qualifies under IDEA or section 504. He has been diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety disorder NOS, reading and math processing disabilities and we have recently filled out questionaires related to Autism and Asperger's syndrome which both his teacher and we rated him as mild to moderate based on his evident behaviors. He seems to have enough deficits and diagnoses to me to qualify for one or the other of the laws and he is falling behind in reading at an alarming rate to me. He just has such a hard time with it he detests reading. Socially he has only one or two friends and doesn't seem to fit in with group activities of any kind.
More help is needed here.
Thanks for listening.

triple*eee
10-21-04, 10:34 PM
You childs doctor should be able to help direct you in the right direction. My daughters psychologist seemed to be very informed about schools/504 plans.

I would have a meeting with the school board and go in there very confident (do your research) Again, if they give you any trouble, I would mention that you will be getting your lawyer involved. Remind them that it is the law that if requested, they must provide a 504 plan.

triple*eee
10-21-04, 10:38 PM
Hope this helps--

<CENTER>A Parent and Educators Guide to Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973


Equal Rights for all Students

</CENTER>



A Parent Guide to Section 504 is a pamphlet which provides information and describes the requirements of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 with respect to preschool, elementary and secondary school policies involving placement of children with physical and mental disabilities.

This pamphlet is designed specifically to give parent's understanding by providing information to help them access services for eligible Section 504 students.

Many states have developed Section 504 Guidelines for Educators that explains how a student might be eligible for Section 504 services. A copy of these guidelines are available by calling the State Department of Education.

<CENTER>WHAT IS SECTION 504?</CENTER>

Section 504 is the part of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 which applies to persons with disabilities. Section 504 is a civil rights act which protects the civil and constitutional rights of persons with disabilities.

<CENTER>MANDATE</CENTER>
<TABLE cellPadding=5 border=1 NOSHADE><TBODY><TR><TD>Section 504 states that no person with a disability can be excluded from or denied benefits of any program receiving federal financial assistance. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Section 504 and special education are two separate services. All school districts should have a Coordinator to answer your questions about Section 504.

<CENTER>HISTORICAL BACKGROUND</CENTER>

Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 was implemented by Congress in 1977. For many years school districts perceived its main obligation as ensuring physical access to public buildings (i.e., ramps were installed, curbs were cut, elevators were added to multi-level buildings, rest room stalls were enlarged, etc.). Schools were at the same time committed to compliance with special education regulations now referred to as the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act-Amendments of 1997 or IDEA.

With passage of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, Congress required that school districts make their programs and activities accessible and usable to all individuals with disabilities.

Within the last several years, the Office for Civil Rights (OCR) has become active in assisting school districts in further defining "access." The definition of access means more than physical access, a student may require special accommodations such as modified assignment in order to benefit from their education.

<CENTER>HOW DOES SECTION 504 DEFINE "APPROPRIATE EDUCATION"?</CENTER>

A free appropriate education is one provided by the public elementary or secondary school which includes general or special education and related aids and services that (1) are designed to meet the individual educational needs of persons with a disability as adequately as the needs of the non-disabled persons are met, and (2) are based upon adherence to evaluation, placement and procedural safeguard requirements.

<CENTER>HOW DOES SECTION 504 DEFINE "DISABILITY"?</CENTER>

Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 protects persons from discrimination based upon their disability status. A person is disabled within the definition of Section 504 if he or she: <TABLE cellPadding=5 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD><LI>has a mental or physical impairment which substantially limits one or more of a person's major life activities; "Major life activities" include functions such as caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working. When a condition does not substantially limit a major life activity, the individual does not qualify under Section 504.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
In order to determine eligibility for Section 504 services, your child must be evaluated by a team of individuals who are familiar with your child. The results will be shared at a team meeting in which you are involved.

<CENTER>WHAT ARE SOME DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SPECIAL EDUCATION AND SECTION 504?</CENTER><TABLE cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD>Section 504 </TD><TD>Special Education </TD></TR><TR><TD>Type </TD><TD>A Civil Rights Act </TD><TD>An education act </TD></TR><TR><TD>Funding </TD><TD>Local funding </TD><TD>State-federal-local funding </TD></TR><TR><TD>Administration </TD><TD>Section 504 Coordinator </TD><TD>Special education Director </TD></TR><TR><TD>Service Tool </TD><TD>Accommodations </TD><TD>Individualized Education Program </TD></TR><TR><TD>Disabilities </TD><TD>All disabilities are eligible </TD><TD>13 federal disabilities </TD></TR><TR><TD>Parents </TD><TD>Should be involved in all team meetings </TD><TD>Should be involved in all team meetings </TD></TR><TR><TD>Procedural Safeguards </TD><TD>Notice to parents is required </TD><TD>Parent consent and notice required for initial evaluation & placement </TD></TR><TR><TD>Evaluation and Eligibility </TD><TD>An evaluation is necessary before it can be determined if a child is eligible for Section 504 services. </TD><TD>An evaluation is necessary before it can be determined if a child is eligible for special education. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


<CENTER>HOW ARE STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES IDENTIFIED?</CENTER>

Section 504 regulations cover a larger group of students with disabilities. The definition of disability under Section 504 includes students who have a physical or mental disability which substantially limits one or more of life's major activities.

For example, school staff should consider the potential existence of disabilities and possible Section 504 protection for students diagnosed as having HIV, Tourette's syndrome, attention deficit disorder (ADHD), heart malfunctions, communicable diseases, urinary conditions, blood disorders, chronic fatigue syndrome, school phobia, respiratory conditions, blood/sugar disorders, post truamatic disorders, pregnancy (with health issues that affect ability to learn), epilepsy, cancer, repetitive motion syndrome, birth defects, tuberculosis, etc.

<CENTER>DOES SECTION 504 REQUIRE EVALUATIONS?</CENTER>

Section 504 requires that a school evaluate "any person who, because of a disability, needs or is believed to need special education or related services." An evaluation is also required prior to any significant change in placement.

<CENTER>ELIGIBILITY</CENTER>

If the school has reason to believe that, because of a disability as defined under Section 504, a student needs accommodations or services in order to participate in the school program, the school must evaluate the student. If it is determined that a student is disabled under Section 504, the school must develop and implement the delivery of all needed services and/or accommodations.

<CENTER>SERVICES</CENTER>

The determination of what services and/or accommodations are needed must be made by a group of persons knowledgeable about the student. The parents must be included in the process whenever possible. The group must review the nature of the disability and how it affects the student's education. The decisions about Section 504 eligibility and services must be documented in the student's file and reviewed periodically.

An appropriate education for students eligible under Section 504 may consist of education in general classes with accommodations and programs designed to meet the unique needs of a particular student.

<TABLE cellPadding=5 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>Adjustments in academic requirements and expectations may be necessary to accommodate the needs of an individual student with disabilities to enable him/her to participate in the general education program. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

It is important to keep in mind that some students who have physical or mental conditions that limit their ability to access and participate in the education program are entitled to rights under Section 504, even though they may not fall into a disabilities category covered in special education.

<CENTER>WHAT DOES MAKING ACCOMMODATIONS MEAN?</CENTER>

Accommodations are adjustments or modifications made by the classroom teacher(s) and other school staff to help students benefit from their educational program. In some cases a plan should be developed outlining services and accommodations.

<CENTER><TABLE cellPadding=5 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>Examples of Common Accommodations </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>

Modify assignments, and tests.
Provide an extra set of textbooks for home.
Adjust student seating.
Use study guides, organizing tools.
Provide a peer tutor/helper.
Counseling.
Have the student use an organizer-train in organizational skills.
Preferential seating.
<LI>Modify recess/PE/transportation. Accommodations need to take into account both the functional limitations of the individual and the alternative methods of performing tasks or activities to particpate without jeopardizing outcomes.


Accommodations must be individualized.
The individual needs of the person with a disability should be met to the same extent as the needs of persons without disabilities.
Modifications can be made to school and/or classroom programs.
<LI>Accommodations should place the student with a disability at an equal starting level with the non-disabled student.

<TABLE cellPadding=5 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>The following is an example of a student who is eligible for Section 504 services and possible accommodations provided by the school.
A student has been diagnosed as having asthma. The doctor has advised the student not to participate in physical activity outdoors. The disability limits the major life function of breathing. The school is required to make reasonable accommodations in the education program.
Possible Accommodations: Modified activity level for recess, P.E., etc.
Use of air purifier or inhalants.
Avoidance of allergens.
Inhalant therapy assistance.
Medication administration.
Policy adjustment for personal administration of medications.
Access to water, gum, etc.
Curriculum considerations (science class, PE, etc.)
Time of year-Bus transportation in winter.
Develop health care and emergency plan.
</TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The school could develop a written plan describing placement and services. Placement decisions must be based upon evaluation information and student needs. Although a formal IEP is not required, the placement decisions must be made by a group of persons knowledgeable about the child, about the meaning of the evaluation data and about placement options.

<CENTER>WHAT ARE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT RESPONSIBILITIES UNDER SECTION 504?</CENTER>

There has been much confusion over the years regarding the relationship between Section 504 and special education laws and regulations. It must be emphasized that Section 504 falls under the management responsibility of the general education program. The school staff and parents need to work in collaboration to help guarantee that the student is provided with the necessary accommodations,

To be in compliance with Section 504, schools must:
Provide written assurance of nondiscrimination.
Designate a 504 Coordinator to manage the program.
Provide grievance procedures to resolve complaints.
Provide notice of nondiscrimination in admission or access to its programs or activities. Notice must be included in a student/parent handbook.
Annually identify and locate all qualified children with disabilities who are not receiving a public education.
Annually notify persons with disabilities and their parents or guardians of the district's responsibilities under Section 504.
Provide parents or guardians with procedural safeguards.
Conduct a self-evaluation of school district policies, programs, and practices to make sure discrimination is not occurring.


<CENTER>WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE SECTION 504 COORDINATOR?</CENTER>

The role of the Section 504 Coordinator is to assist the school in meeting requirements under Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

The Coordinator will provide resources and help educators and administrators regarding their responsibilities under Section 504. In addition, the Coordinator will assist in creating an on-going program that will support problem-solving teams in accommodating students' needs. If you have questions regarding Section 504, call the school district Section 504 Coordinator.

<CENTER>WHAT ARE THE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND THE OFFICE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS?</CENTER>

The U.S. Department of Education is the agency of the U.S. Government that administers federal funds for education programs, conducts and disseminates education research, focuses national attention on issues and problems in education, enforces federal statutes prohibiting discrimination in any activities receiving federal funds, and ensures equal access to education for every individual.

The U.S. Department of Education maintains Regional Civil Rights Offices to enforce Section 504 and other civil rights laws. All parents have the right to directly contact the Office for Civil Rights in their region if they believe their child is being discriminated against based upon their disability. Most differences with schools can be resolved before contacting the Office for Civil Rights. It is suggested you follow the procedures outlined below:
First try to resolve your differences at the teacher or school level. Set up a meeting to discuss your differences.
If unsuccessful, set up a meeting with the school district's Section 504 Coordinator.
If unsuccessful, call the Parent Center in your state for guidance.
In unsuccessful, ask for mediation. This is a free service for parents. A neutral individual will work with you and the school to help resolve your differences.
If unsuccessful, ask the Section 504 Coordinator how to file a grievance.
If unsuccessful, call the Office for Civil Rights in your region to express your concerns.


<CENTER>SECTION 504
PARENT/STUDENT RIGHTS
IN IDENTIFICATION, EVALUATION AND PLACEMENT</CENTER>

The following is a description of the rights granted under Section 504 to students with disabilities. The intent of the law is to keep you fully informed concerning decisions about your child and to inform you of your rights if you disagree with any of these decisions.

You have the right to:
Have your child take part in, and receive benefits from public education programs without discrimination because of his/her disability;
Have the school district advise you of your rights under federal law;
Receive notice with respect to identification, evaluation, or placement of your child;
Have your child receive a free appropriate public education. This includes the right to be educated with students without disabilities to the maximum extent appropriate. It also includes the right to have the school district make accommodations to allow your child an equal opportunity to participate in school and school-related activities;
Have your child educated in facilities and receive services comparable to those provided to students without disabilities;
Have evaluation, educational, and placement decisions made based upon a variety of information sources, and by persons who know the student, the evaluation data, and placement options;
Have your child receive special education and related services if he/she is found to be eligible under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act or Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act;
Have transportation provided to and from an alternative placement setting at no greater cost to you than would be incurred if the student was placed in a program operated by the district;
Have your child be given an equal opportunity to participate in nonacademic and extracurricular activities offered by the district;
Examine all relevant records relating to decisions regarding your child's identification, evaluation, educational program, and placement;
Obtain copies of educational records at a reasonable cost unless the fee would effectively deny you access to the records;
A response from the school district to reasonable requests for explanations and interpretations of your child's records;
Request amendment of your child's educational records if there is reasonable cause to believe that they are inaccurate, misleading or otherwise in violation of the privacy rights of your child. If the school district refuses this request for amendment, it shall notify you within a reasonable time, and advise you of the right to a hearing;
File a 504 grievance if you have a disagreement with the school;
Request mediation or an impartial due process hearing related to decisions or actions regarding your child's identification, evaluation, educational program or placement. You and the student may take part in the hearing and have an attorney represent you;
File a complaint with the Regional Office for Civil Rights.

Blondiex46
10-24-04, 07:56 PM
Question about advocates
Are these state advocates a listed under Big's website a free service? I did try a Parent Advocacy Group which was free here in my state and was disappointed to find they really weren't trained in helping a parent advocate and did not attend meetings at the school with parents. They gave my name to another parent who had been through it all before and the person never contacted me.

where do you live cause I am an advocate and that is exactly what I do?

jordiemom
10-28-04, 04:44 PM
Blondie - I live in CT.

gingagirl
10-28-04, 11:13 PM
Here's a website that defines "learning disability" in simple language. Also, there is a link about IEP's.
http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,4558,00.html

f_wcomboadhd
10-29-04, 01:21 AM
you guys are scaring the hell out of me.
i have an iq of 165
and i'm applying for accomodations this week for my community college!!!
this is exactly what i feared!
i do NEED help.
i'm afraid that my demeanor itself will be my downfall for getting accomodations.
maybe i can take something..drink a bit..(just kidding don't get mad at me)
i'm such a rapid speaker..and ppl when they meet me they think
"hyper"
and "very capable"
you know?
that doesn't look like someone who needs anything at all.
i hope that you all have success in pursuing the help you know your children legitimately need.
unfortunately..we don't have braces on our legs..we don't have any overt sign
that we need help often.
struggling gracefully, or with high functionality
should NOT be punished with such narrow perspectives.
unfortunately our disorder has been maligned with plenty of bad press and a horrible image of a bunch of whiny babies that are needy for attention.
sigh.

Blondiex46
11-03-04, 12:05 PM
let us know what happens. If you need help hopefully they will provide it for you

Mrs. E
11-04-04, 03:59 PM
I am new to this Web Site, but I hope I can be of some help. My son is 8 and is ADHD, ranked in the 98th percentile nationally. Children with AD usually fall behind in reading - it is normal. When a child reaches a certain point of being behind, the schools have to offer placement in Special Education Services. Many schools use the IRI (Individual Reading Indicator) that is given in the Fall, Winter and Spring to children, as an indicator that additional testing may be needed for placement. They also will use the ISAT test scores. You have the right to request the school to do additional testing for services in Special Education. The school should also give you print outs and pamplets on your rights with regard to Special Education and Services -If not, request them.

If your child does not qualify for Special Education, in other words, s/he is not far enough behind yet, there are other options you can discuss with his teacher to assist with the education process. Place your child's seat where there will be as little distraction as possible. Let the teacher know of his condition and work with her to obtain the same goal. Ask the teacher not to put your child on the spot with questions, an AD child usually can not give sudden answers and this will help avoid embarrasement and the feeling of being inadequate your child may experience. Also, try to get weekly progress reports from the teacher. This will help you know what is going on, and help you work with him at home.

You can find out more information on what steps you can take at WebMD and at the Concerta Web site.

hummous
04-05-05, 09:21 AM
We had the same problem. We had a 504 mtg for my son and it was DENIED because he's too smart? He's not gifted either, he's just doing above average. But he forgets assignments and takens forever to do homework and is often given isolated lunch and no recess and I'm sick of it. I have really thrown up my hands. It seems like the only way to get a 504 is to hire a lawyer.

ttjmom
04-05-05, 11:24 AM
Before getting a lawyer, tell them you want your child qualified under an OHI. OHI is, Other Health Imapaired which is where the AD/HD belongs if there are no other qualifying tags. Below is the information I found at http://www.reedmartin.com/adhd.htm

The 1999 Regulations, at 34 C.F.R. 300.7(c)(9), include "attention deficit disorder or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder" under Other Health Impaired. The OHI category has always referred to "limited strength, vitality or alertness" which were not terms that one often associated with our students with ADD. However, the regulations spell out the logic that ADD causes "a heightened alertness to environmental stimuli that results in limited alertness with respect to the educational environment." Parents and teachers have always said "I can't get them to pay attention to what they are supposed to pay attention to" and now we have an official recognition that is the problem.

In the recent case of W.B. v. Matula, 67 F.3d 484 (3rd. Cir. 1995) the federal Circuit Court of Appeals decided a case in which the school district had insisted that the child, known to have ADD/ADHD was not IDEA eligible because "disruptive behaviors, including not paying attention in class, fighting with other students, failing to remain seated, making continuous noises and repeatedly touching other children... difficulty beginning tasks, difficulty finishing those that he did start and coloring within the lines" were not related to academics. The Circuit Court did not agree with the school district.

Please look into a publication called...Advocating For Your Child with AD/HD & LD Manual

I hope this helps.

Kimalimah
04-05-05, 03:57 PM
I just wanted to pop in here and say that there is some really great information here, so I copied it into a new thread and made it a sticky...http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16461

Thanks you guys for all your great input!

Kim

mctavish23
04-05-05, 06:09 PM
All the problem behaviors you listed are impairments in the Executive Functions.

Johna
04-05-05, 08:15 PM
Hummous
Here are a few steps to take in helping your child
1. Go to your child's school counselor and request a child study been done on your son.
If your child has been diagnoised with add/adhd or other medical condition bring a copy of that diagnoises with you.
A child study needs to be done in order to have your child in Special Education under OHI. Or to have a 504 plan put in place. It's either one or the other..it can't be both.

Once a initial chld study meeting has been held to determine components of what is needed in the child study like pschy report, teacher observation, medical...the school has 90 days to complete the components listed. During the second child study meeting the committee with decide what is needed for your child. It's a committe decision, not a parent or teacher decision. Document and copy everything that pretains to your child's actions, report cards, etc.
Good Luck

katika
05-09-05, 02:55 PM
I just had to reply: I used to work (as a volunteer paralegal) for a non-profit organization that advocated for special education IEP on behalf of parents. Ironically, I did not yet know that my daughter would end up in IEP at the time. A few thoughts: I agree with a previous post that under 504 public schools cannot refuse, especially with saying we don't have the funding. They are violating state and federal laws, can we say big time lawsuit? I have through personal and professional experience seen that the school districts have a tendency to "wait" until the child is no longer in a "gray" area and is fully failing in academics to give an IEP unless they are faced with a "pushy" parent who has good documentations to back up concerns. My daughter faced this as she was kicked out of IFSP (which precedes IEP for children under 5) and then was not quite failing yet in Kindergarten. So the school waited saying Kindergarten was not "academic" but developmental and the psychologists scores that I hired measured academic ability and it was "inappropriate." What helped? Changing school districts to a better public school (aka affluent neighborhood) where parents' requests were more catered to and in 1st grade gray area or not she was enrolled into IEP. Now in second grade, the school is pushing me (ironic) to allow an increase in her resource hours at school. If I was in your shoes, I would start thinking about finding an advocate (lawyer). You would be surprised how quickly the tone of an IEP changes, when a lawyer enters the room. (It's almost comical.) I always ask the teachers, if it was about your child and you saw her slowly falling behind, failing, wouldn't you want to start helping now or would you wait till they have hit rock bottom and now it's not only academics, it's self-esteem, depression, lack of motivation? It's more work for the school in terms of resources and more work for the parent and the child if they wait till the child is critically in need. If they have common sense they nip in the butt. Be pushy.

Johna
05-09-05, 09:02 PM
A child with add/adhd will qualify for an IEP under the disability of OHI (other health impaired). The only thing a 504 plan will give you are modifications/accomodations. An IEP will give you modifications/accomodations and other options for what test a child would have to take to graduate. In an IEP the exceptional education teacher will be involved. With a 504 plan it's general education teacher. Know your rights it'll scare the hell of them when u walk into a meeting...Good Luck

adhdxyz
05-09-05, 09:49 PM
I agree 100 percent with getting a special ed advocate.

I paid $50 an hour for a special ed advocate to accompany my mom and I to my son's IEP meetings. The money was well worth it. She worked for a disability lawyer and knew her stuff. (My add husband can never go to these types of meetings because he always looses his cool.)

My son is adhd (hyper off the chart), ocd with mood disorders. With this diagnosis, you would think that they would know what is needed for my son to succeed. Not!

They (public schools) always try to give you the minimum. They never have enough money. They never have the personnel resources needed for all the kids to get the help they need. They never have proper special ed supervisor for field trips. It's always the parents fault that the child can't read and has no social skills. BLAH BLAH BLAH

My advocate angel (who looked like Mrs Doubtfire) would walk into the room, with her knee hi stockings falling down, carrying her big stack of papers that I had already sent her in advance, armed with her tape recorder. As soon as she started the tape recorder, the stupid guidance counselor from you know where would scramble out to get her tape recorder. Whatever.

The advocate knew what accommodations we could ask for, such as the use of calculators, math charts, being able to get out of his chair when needed, able to go into the hallway himself to cool down, extra time for tests, minimized homework, and the list goes on and on. My mom and I would never have known to ask for this stuff.

After several years (my son is now 12 and in 6th grade), my mom and I no longer have the advocate go with us. We have seen her do her magic so many times.

Now I bring the binder full of notes. I bring the tape recorder. One day it didn't even work but the guidance counselor didn't know this. (She always lied and never admitted anything that she said to me or sent me. If I got a dollar for every lie I caught her in, I'd be rich.)

Anyway, check into an experienced special ed advocate. You will learn so much from them and you have a long road ahead of you so the more you know, the better.

Also, you will be more confident whenever you walk into a parent/teacher meeting or a "Can I please come back to school after being suspended meeting". (I have been through tons of these.)

witsend
05-10-05, 01:13 AM
I have our IEP meeting tommorrow morning---Hoping all goes well. This will be our 2nd yr of IEP so I hope I can maybe get more out of it this time around...last yr was like a worldwind. He also has an appt w/ a new dr tommorrow that will test him for LD's --I just recently found out that his old school didn't do this before. I didn't think they did, but I was "...lost in translation." Just trying to decifer all the terms & what was being said.

adhdxyz
05-10-05, 08:20 AM
witsend,

That's exactly why you should also bring a tape recorder with you. Not so that you can catch the guidance counselor, teachers and principal in a lie, but so that you can listen to the tape later. This way, the IEPs going forward won't also be a whirl wind of what you heard, didn't hear, may have heard, etc...

Remember, "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree".

If your child has issues regarding comprehension, etc... chances are you do too. I can't remember if I had comprehension issues when I was young, but I do now.

While at an IEP, I am not only concentrating on what is being said, but also trying to look and sound professional (wear red because red is power).

Plus at several IEPs I have gone to, there was a table of people and several side conversations going on. If you are not able to comprehend all the different conversations going on, please advocate for yourself and say so. You need to hear EVERYTHING that is being said that effects your child.

Good luck.

Gregster
05-10-05, 10:24 AM
As in most areas of life, but especially w. bureaucracy and health care, the more you know, the better you will do, and the more likely you are to find the help you need. Kudos to you for bringing in an advocate that knew what demands to make and how to make them!

witsend
05-11-05, 01:51 AM
witsend,

That's exactly why you should also bring a tape recorder with you. Not so that you can catch the guidance counselor, teachers and principal in a lie, but so that you can listen to the tape later. This way, the IEPs going forward won't also be a whirl wind of what you heard, didn't hear, may have heard, etc...

Remember, "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree".

If your child has issues regarding comprehension, etc... chances are you do too. I can't remember if I had comprehension issues when I was young, but I do now.

While at an IEP, I am not only concentrating on what is being said, but also trying to look and sound professional (wear red because red is power).

Plus at several IEPs I have gone to, there was a table of people and several side conversations going on. If you are not able to comprehend all the different conversations going on, please advocate for yourself and say so. You need to hear EVERYTHING that is being said that effects your child.

Good luck.

I know ppl Un-intentionally "lie" ---meaning they mean to do what they say they will , but don't by some reason or another. The town I live in may be in San Diego , but it is definately very small town. Ppl here are genuinely concerned with other members of the community. I've seen the difference in my son & we've only lived here since Nov. Additude change most of all.

This is not to say that--- ok i just re-read what you wrote & mis-interppurted hmmm go figure. i un-derstood the part about his having comprehension issues & thought ,"yup that's me!" but I mis understood the part about why to record the IEP meetting...."catching cousoler/principal/ teachers in a lie".


By the way I got up early, showered, put on some make-up, got to the school for the meeting ---only to find out it's for NEXT Tues!!!

Oh well more time to prepare!! Maybe I can get an advocate?

Ichpuchtli
05-11-05, 03:14 AM
hey would someone plz explain what the 504 plan is because there have been posts about and I would have liked to help but I have no idea what it is.

JimboOmega
05-11-05, 02:31 PM
Ichpuchtli - The discussion of 504/IEP refers to documents for schoolchidren that detail various (typically learning) disabilities they might have and what accomodations they will be given. A common one (and one I had) required teachers to give me twice as much time to complete tests because of ADD. Another provision of mine was that teachers let me complete writing asignments (including essay tests) by computer whenever possible because my illegible handwriting was a serious impediment to school work (and proved incurable no matter what I did).

Generally these documents are legally binding. A teacher cannot refuse accomodations. This is much like how the Americans With Disabilities Act protects adults (which requirse employers to make "reasonable accomodations"). Of course, as time went on, I used these provisions less and less, because with medication, I didn't need to. (and unfortunately, even if teachers are accomodating, most other students will resent you for receiving extra time, etc.)

Therefore, they also apply to standardized tests such as AP Tests, GREs, and SATs. In my case, I chose not take these tests with accomodations except for the use of a computer for essays, and even that I only used on the PSATs. Dexedrine does a much better job anyway.

As for the whole thread - there is no such thing as too smart for an IEP. You can be "GT/LD" meaning Gifted and Talented and Learning Disabled. I have an IQ somewhere over 140 (my parents would never tell me, and I don't know how far I trust tickle), but I definitely had an IEP. There were always a couple of kids like me in my classes.

Without medication or an IEP, my grades were fair but well below what I knew I was capable of. The IEP helped teachers to realize that my tremendously messy handwriting and miserable efforts at assembling posters and the like was not just because of laziness, and it was helpful (though not as helpful as medication). There were other ways it helped - for instance giving me time to check over my notoriously sloppy work.

Of course, the extra time provision always seemed a little unfair to me - which is why I often didn't invoke it. Part of my problem is that I compensate for other ADD symptoms with brains. So on tests I'd have studied absolutely diddly, and use every last minute of the test to try to "Smart" my way through the things I couldn't remember. For instance, I had a chemistry teacher who would give multiple choice tests, and often ask several questions that required applying the same formula. Me being me, I'd have forgetten the formula but have a vague idea of what it was, and so I'd backward-calculate it from a couple of the possible answers (generally I'd be able to at least have a ballpark idea of which answers were possible and which weren't, so I could narrow the choices). Then I'd try that formula on the other questions to see if I got possible answers every time. If I did, I had the right formula. If not, I'd reformulate.

I wound up getting like a 99% in that class (without using my IEP). Whenever there is multiple choice, I can rip it apart. Of course, I was a very bright and attentive student, I was just horrible about memorizing equations.

But it seemed kind of unfair to give myself extra time to do stuff like that -- so I generally didn't request such accomodations.

jazzper
05-11-05, 03:03 PM
Hi,


She was diagnosed with ADD Inattentive type. She is taking Adderal XR. The improvement in her grades is one that cheesy commercials are made of.

Upon notification of the diagnosis, the school said they didn't see it was necessary for her to have an IEP or 504 plan. At this point, we gave up on the school system. We thought that we would meet with the high school guidance counselor and principal and let them know the situation.

We have, after begging, a meeting scheduled for tomorrow. We should be happy, right? No. We have already been told that she is to bright to have an IEP or fall under a 504 plan. Her grades have gone from d's - f's to a's - b's. Her IQ is in the 130s.

Is this possible? The ADD does still affect her schoolwork. If she forgets her paper in her locker or at home, she gets a zero which pulls the grade down. All we are asking is that she be allowed to go to her locker to get an assignment if she forgets it before class, or to call home if she has forgotten it at home.



Sheila
Does your school district have a web site? Often the rules/state laws for IEP and 504 plans are outlined there. I don't think a kid can be "too smart" to have a plan. I do think they can be denied special accomodations like getting special help for honors classes and things like that, but that's not what you're asking for. I do think that ADHD is NOT covered as part of the Disabilities Act, if I'm not mistaken. I think what you have to do, if you're having problems with the school, is to write a formal letter to the district superintendant, and ask for a hearing. You better cover all your bases if you do this. Have the diagnosis, maybe a doctor's letter outlining what accomodations would be helpful, maybe have an advocate there to help you plead your case. I don't know all the ins and outs, but we tried to get an IEP for our son, and the school principal just voluntarily set up a plan for him, which wouldn't be a part of his perm. record. He's really bright too, so the principal didn't want to pigeonhole him. Anyway, research your state laws through the State Board of Ed., maybe call them to find out more.

Johna
05-11-05, 08:07 PM
Both the IEP and the 504 are under federal law....not state law. They are also two very separate plans. As a exceptional education teacher I am not able to service a child with a 504 because of the law. A IEP or a 504 plan will not always hurt a child in the future. In fact a child with an IEP that goes to college has a better chance of getting college paid for because of it.

Ichpuchtli
05-12-05, 03:52 AM
Thanks now I see, so what is going on here is that the teachers won't help her because she is to smart. Am I on the right track because if so I have Ideas already coming to my head.

Rakshi
05-12-05, 05:08 AM
I find this a very interesting thread -i work with 'problem' kids, and i have a little boy who causes trouble in school.
But just so i can understand this a bit better: What is a 504 or a IEP?

My seven year old boy is very smart -the school had his IQ tested at 145- and because of that officially he doesnt qualify for any special budgets.
But he found another way of assuring that he gets what he needs. If he doesnt get what he needs, he just behaves so miserably in school that his exhausted teachers will do anything to accommodate him!!
Good for him, but it does disturb me that a child who faces similar problems but does not make a fuss, will not get his/her needs met, like your girl (Who is called Amanda, i assume?).

PS. I dont know if my son has ADHD, or that he is just odd because he is so smart.

sgolden5374
05-13-05, 06:00 AM
Hi! I'm new to these boards, but this is a topic that is near and dear to me. My daughter is highly gifted with severe combination ADHD. She is an excellent student when she is interested in the subject otherwise NOTHING anyone does can get her to do the work. Anyway, after we transferred from Florida to North Carolina last year she lost her IEP to begin with. I was ok with that at the time because she still had her 504. This year the school system here in Cumberland County revoked that also. This was their explanation since she is on medication and highly outperforms her peers she is no longer eligible. I highly disagreed and went to the person for the county who deals with 504 issues. He explained that he was the one who interpreted these laws for this county and under his interpretation she no longer qualified for the 504. I was livid. I was not aware that there were advocates. This is something I will look into. But, just let me say that while the school has tried to keep some of the provisions in place out of respect for me and my child I have had a terrible time with my daughter's teacher who can't seem to grasp the concept of ADHD and now I have no legal recourse which is what I think the school untimately wanted to remove.

Also, as a side note, all is well usually but let me forget her medication and they act as though she is completely uncontrollable. I seriously considered taking her off meds for a week during the school day just to prove that she was indeed disabled due to ADHD. I didn't because that would not have been prudent for her, but goodness I wanted to!

Again, thanks for the heads up about advocates. Hopefully, by next year I can have the 504 reinstated.

Johna
05-13-05, 10:10 PM
I am confused....how did your daughter lose her IEP? Did you have a meeting to exist her out of Exceptional Education. She qualifies for EE under other health impaired because she has adhd...she would also qualify for a 504 plan. Check your state department of education.

Imnapl
05-13-05, 10:37 PM
. . . let me forget her medication and they act as though she is completely uncontrollable. I seriously considered taking her off meds for a week during the school day just to prove that she was indeed disabled due to ADHD. I didn't because that would not have been prudent for her, but goodness I wanted to!
Stacey, has your daughter had med free days at school or . . .? :confused:

sgolden5374
05-17-05, 12:40 AM
Yes, occaisionally I forget to give it to her and usually I am called by 10:30 to bring it in. One day I was unreachable due to leaving my cell phone at home and as a result she was suspended from the bus for 3 days. My daughter does not deal well with cramped and noisy spaces and without her meds she becomes almost manic. I felt horrible for her and while I really couldn't protest the suspension I didn't punish her at home.

Let me say that the school she attends is a very small school, grades pre-k thru 5th with only 6 classrooms most only have about 13 students. At first I thought it would be an ideal learning enviroment because of the class size - give her more opportunities for one on one and so forth. Unfortunately, that has not been the case. Her classroom teacher refuses to work with me or my child. She absolutely cannot comprehend that disorganization is due to ADHD whether medicated or not. My daughter is in the advanced/gifted program but only receives 1 hour per week teacher instruction and much of the work is left for her to do under the guidance of the classroom teacher who believes that being gifted means just having more work at a higher level piled onto what she already has to do in class despite being told differently by the AIG teacher. This same teacher says that 3rd graders are absolutely capable of keeping up with their own assignments and she shouldn't have to follow up with my daughter at the end of the day. Now, I have known lots of children and even those without ADHD at that age need adult guidance -- so you can imagine just what I think of this woman. Also, I have caught her in a blatant lie. I have been most unhappy with my daughter's instruction this year and have voiced it many many times to the pricipal to no avail.

Just a few days ago I contacted the advocate for my state (after reading this thread) and hopefully something good will come of it. My daughter's grades have suffered greatly this year due to small-minded, uncooperative, and lazy attitudes.

:(

sgolden5374
05-17-05, 12:44 AM
She originally lost her IEP because she is gifted. Here in this county you can't qualify for an IEP if you are gifted. After that she outperformed her peers and therefore lost her 504. And, no I haven't checked with the state's dept. of education. I have been battling locally with this school board, but that's about to change.

Ichpuchtli
05-17-05, 02:32 AM
Ok heres an idea why don't you get some papers proving that she has it and what they are requiered to do because og the 504 plan.

Johna
05-17-05, 08:30 PM
Stacey, children who are enrolled in gifted programs have IEPs. I know that sounds the totally opposite of special education but it's true. Ichpuchtli is right if you get a doctor's statement saying your child has add/adhd take it to the school. The child will qualify for both the 504 plan and IEP(other health impaired). You need to pick one ...can't have both.

Ichpuchtli
05-18-05, 02:23 AM
Go talk to futs and she'll give you the best advice and how to fix this problem.

addparent
05-19-05, 01:42 AM
:confused: I want your opinions. Which is better the 504 or IEP? I was given a choice for my son. To this day I still don't know which is better. I told special ed director to do what was best for son. We ended up doing a 504.

sgolden5374
05-19-05, 10:00 AM
Stacey, children who are enrolled in gifted programs have IEPs. I know that sounds the totally opposite of special education but it's true. Ichpuchtli is right if you get a doctor's statement saying your child has add/adhd take it to the school. The child will qualify for both the 504 plan and IEP(other health impaired). You need to pick one ...can't have both.
Johna, I didn't know she couldn't have both. While we were living in Florida she did have both. And, I do have a statement from her psychologist in Georgia who did her initial dx and the school has a copy of that. According to the person who "interprets" the disabilities laws for this county she does not qualify for the 504 because she is (1) successfully medicated & (2) performs well above her peers academically (sp?).

I think the reason she has been left totally unprotected is because they did away with her IEP because she had the 504 and now that they have found her unqualified to receive the 504 she has nothing. We should have reinstated her IEP at the time of the 504 disqualification. That shouldn't be too hard to rectify.

Since school is out in another 6 days I will proceed again at the beginning of next year. Right now I am just relieved to get the summer break I so dearly need!:eek: My kids make me nuts, but that school is enough to sned me into breakdown!!!

Johna
05-19-05, 10:08 PM
Stacey,

Please don't wait until the fall to get the proceeding going for your daughter. Ask for an child study meeting to held if possible before school. The child study team will determine the components needed to determine your child's placement whether it be a 504 plan or IEP.
The person who told you that she no longer qualified for the 504 plan because she is medicated is wrong. She qualifies because she has add/adhd. Check out big site for some great information on both the 504 and IEP.
Good Luck....know the law and stand for your child's right otherwise it's possible you'll get walked on.

sgolden5374
05-20-05, 09:01 PM
Check out big site for some great information on both the 504 and IEP.

Johna,

I'm sorry what is big site?

Emma S
05-22-05, 05:13 PM
Johna,

I'm sorry what is big site?
Probably means this site----------> http://www.bigsplace.com/
^Owned by addforums.com's admin-Andrew.

Imnapl
07-09-05, 12:57 PM
The person who told you that she no longer qualified for the 504 plan because she is medicated is wrong. She qualifies because she has add/adhd.
I am trying to discover the differences, if any, between the U.S. and Canadian education systems and I seem to be discovering some similarities.

Eligibility for Section 504 is based on the existence of an identified physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity. The diagnosis of AD/HD is not enough; his AD/HD must significantly impact his learning or behavior.

Johna, in your experience, what is meant by substantially limits a major life activity ?

Johna
07-09-05, 08:13 PM
Imnapl,
I have no clue what substantially limits would mean. I would never tell a child or parent that there are limits to what a child might accomplish because of having add/adhd. If you find out what it means...please let me know :)

Imnapl
07-10-05, 12:12 AM
This site has lots of information, but I'll keep checking if there is a government site. :faint:

http://www.504idea.org/504resources.html

Just trying to find information on this has reminded me of why excellent teachers in Canada are leaving Special Ed. and getting back into regular classrooms. Special Ed. teachers are spending way more time doing paper work to obtain funding for students which takes away teaching time for students. Add in the ever changing criteria to qualify for funding and the job becomes very stressful and frustrating.

Is it taxpayers not wanting to spend more money or governments not spending our tax dollars where some of us want them to?

mmcclure79
09-13-05, 12:36 PM
Slowpoke and Healthwiz you are both very correct. I wasn't diagnosed with ADD until this year. I'm 26 and yet when I was in middle school I entered the gifted program for all three years. I definitely feel that if I had been treated earlier that I wuldn't have been a mediocre student grade wise. Class usually bored me and homework held no interest for me. I never did my homework and rarely studied unfortunately my teachers counted homework as part of our grade and so I pulled c's all through school. My report cards and interim reports always said that I wasn't working to my potential. I'm glad to hear that there are programs available for those of us with AD/HD. It's so very depressing when people think that people with AD/HD are stupid or inacapable of being smart people. My fiancee and I are still comiong to grips with my diagnosis and she's always saying "but you're so smart, whay can't you just do it?" In my head I'm screaming "I AM smart you just don't understand how hard it is!" Teachers, schools and people in general I think have a hard time thinking that you can be very intelligent and yet have these problems.

Good on you for demanding that those who think it's impossible to smart and AD/HD recognize that not only is it possible but happens all the time. I mean are blind people stupid because they can't grasp things visually? I think not!

ms_sunshine
09-13-05, 01:41 PM
Someone asked which was better, an IEP or a 504 plan. I vote for the IEP, because the funding comes from the a different place, and the rules governing the IEP process are clear, with consequences clearly established.

When moving from one state to another, the IEP doesn't get terminated. It gets transferred. That's one reason why it falls under IDEA--it's federal. When we moved from PA to OH, the kids' IEPs transferred, too. One thing I did learn is that every state interprets IDEA differently. An advocate from your state can help you find out how YOUR state interprets the laws. My daughter wasn't getting what she needed in PA, but in OH, she is getting a ton of help. My son has grown academically by leaps and bounds since we moved, too. In both cases, they're adhd, but on their IEP's, this is listed about sixth on the list of about ten reasons for qualification. They list is as OHI-disabled, even though my kids are not disabled. This way, they get the accomodations they need, and are able to excel on a level playing field.

Francis Bacon was right--Knowledge Is Power. Always put things in writing, get names, get signatures, keep copies, and read, read, read. :) YOU are your child's best advocate.

adhdmomw/bipo
08-16-06, 09:51 PM
Hi I'm new but, I have 2 Boys with ADHD both were diagnosed at a very early age!!! 2 and 4. They are now 9 and 12. We have been rounds and rounds with the IEP/ 504 deals. My oldest still is on a 504 which they are trying to get rid of because "he doesn't need any of the related services anymore and because he is way to smart. He scored a 126 on an IQ test at the age of 8. Normal adult is 110-120. This is per his pediatric neuropsychologist. The school district has said this is not possible and has had him retested with similar results 4 times. I allowed my youngest to be taken off because of these things. Before I relized that he didn't have to be taken off. (Duh me) Now we are having trouble again with him. We are trying to get him back on the 504 plan atleast. The school will not even answer us in writing. I need to know what steps would be available to us from here. I'm stuck. We don't have the extra monies to hire an advocate or lawyer to go in with us so we are having to do it ourselves. Does anyone know of someone or organization that could help? Thanks!!!

ames
09-18-06, 08:38 AM
I hope that you have had some success with the schools since you posted your original post. I work as a speech pathologist in the public schools and have ADHD myself. I can tell you that a medical diagnosis of any kind can absolutely make you eligible for a 504 Accommodation Plan. An IEP is only used if the child falls below a certain standard deviation below the mean in 1 or more formal tests OR if there is a statistically significant difference (generally 15 points) between tests. Not knowing indepth history or any results from testing, I couldn't rightfully make the assumption that your child would qualify for the IEP, especially if you said in the initial post that she does well now that she is on meds. A 504 would certainly make the most sense. HOWEVER, every school district has different criteria for placing children and adults on 504s. In some districts I have worked in, 504s were only used if structural changes needed to be made to the building (like ramps, elevators, etc) so that the student had access to the general education like everyone else. In other districts, students were on plans if they had ADHD, swallowing issues, or numerous other disabilities. Again, check with your school district to find out what their policy is on 504s, and get it in writing. You can absolutely state your case that even though your child is doing well, she is still entitled to access the general ed curriculum and may still needed untimed tests, extra time to process information, etc. Good luck and I hope everything works out!

keghappy
06-10-08, 02:40 PM
Hi AM,
I don't know when you wrote the post but I have a situation very similar to yours! My daughter is now 14 and will be a 9th grader in the fall. We got the diagnosis from a highly qualified and expensive psychologist. We got the diagnosis last month and had the 504 put into place in the last few weeks of 8th grade. My suggestion to you is that you have your psychologist attend the 504 meeting with you. If you're interested, I'd love to correspond with you.
Thanks so much.
Karen

I have a 13 year old daughter. She is getting ready to enter public high school in the fall.

We knew something was up in 3rd grade when she was doing homework until 10-11 p.m. We started then asking teachers for help. She even went to see the guidance counselor at her school. We got nowhere.

In fourth grade, we transferred her to another school. Unfortunately, there was no improvement. Finally, 15 months ago, we decided to have her meet with psychologist and try to find out what was going on.

She was diagnosed with ADD Inattentive type. She is taking Adderal XR. The improvement in her grades is one that cheesy commercials are made of.

Upon notification of the diagnosis, the school said they didn't see it was necessary for her to have an IEP or 504 plan. At this point, we gave up on the school system. We thought that we would meet with the high school guidance counselor and principal and let them know the situation.

We have, after begging, a meeting scheduled for tomorrow. We should be happy, right? No. We have already been told that she is to bright to have an IEP or fall under a 504 plan. Her grades have gone from d's - f's to a's - b's. Her IQ is in the 130s.

Is this possible? The ADD does still affect her schoolwork. If she forgets her paper in her locker or at home, she gets a zero which pulls the grade down. All we are asking is that she be allowed to go to her locker to get an assignment if she forgets it before class, or to call home if she has forgotten it at home.

At this point we have given up on the school system being there for our daughter. If they had done what we begged of them to begin with she would have the IEP or 504 in place. Because we gave up and went outside the system, she is now too smart?

Any recommendations you could give for me to bring up in the meeting would be most appreciated. This is a first for us and we want to be prepared. We only want something in place before there is a problem.

Sheila[/quote]

vsamek
09-16-08, 06:43 PM
My child also struggles with adhd in school and we have also been denied a 504 because of good grades and high state test scores. He increasingly dispises going to school for fear of getting in trouble for talking, forgetting things, messiness, disorganization etc. The list could be neverending. He just entered middle school this year and is drowning. in the deep waters of his adhd. I am anxious to hear if you get your 504. I am considering making another attempt as well. Best of luck to you and your child. I can definitely relate to what you are going through.

GiddyMoon
09-16-08, 07:08 PM
To all the parents out there, NEVEr...I meaqn NEVER rely on your school or district to kow the laws and do right by your child. I cannot count how many of these horror stories I have heard. From every state, no matter where, it is all the same bull.

THE PARENT HAS to be armed with the law BEFORE going in. The net is FILLED with tons of great free information to help you do that. A few hours on google and you will get tons, plus the right books to buy, plus how to be armed before you go into that IEP meeting.

An IEP is MUCH better than a 504 becuase it has more set rules and regulations the teachers and staff have to follow. 504s are more apt to interpretation by the school district / county / state, you reside in.

NEVER EVER believe ANYTHING they tell you...99% of it is always wrong.


Your child qualifies for an IEP if the child has a diagnoses that qualifies as a disability / DX that confirms it and is having substantial trouble with regular classes. An IEP can impliment and bring in outside resources and pay for things like speech therapy...a 504 can't.

A 504 is a plan for mainstream students who neeed accomodations but can STAY in mainstream classes WITHOUT outside resources.

Your child only needs the DX, ADHD qualifies for that and a child DOES NOT have to fail before qualifying for a 504.

Example of the two:

My Asperger son's IEP also incorperates aides who help him thru out the day - a 504 would not do this. If he needed a special ed PE teacher, the IEP would cover this..not a 504. If he needed speech therapy, an IEP would cover this, not a 504. If a mainstream setting or the classes at school cannot provide him the basic education as other students, in some instances the district would have to privide private schooling or private tutoring, a 504 would not do this.

My ADHD son's 504 has half homework load, adult in class aid checking work in class before turning in and showing him easily missed mistakes, more time on schoolwork and tests if need be. More contact by the teacher to me if problems arise, leaves class 5 minutes early to get to lunch in time to not be overloaded, overlooks some sloppy handwriting, sits up front in class, has a note taker while also taking notes for himself, etc.

Type in ADHD school accomodations into google and you will get dozens of helpful pages.

There is no reason not to be armed with everything one needs to know...all everyone needs to know can be found on google. The squeeky wheel gets the oil..and my favorite term when I have a problem and need to call my district contact "I don't want to be the biotch, but will be if I have to"

I am telling you, it is NOT easy to get what your child needs and you can't rely on anyone campus knowing the laws. They believe what they are told and they hope we will go away becuase these kids take a lot of extra time and resources. Once you do have something in place, EXPECT things to go wrong..they always do!

Which is why I am home...because there is no way I could work from home and be here to make contact with literally 18 different teachers and 4 aides regarding 4 different kids..3 with diagnoses.

It takes a lot of research and you have to be prepared, but the info is all out there.

momof2withadhd
01-04-09, 08:59 PM
Hello, all. I'm a mom of two kids with adhd. I am also a school employee. I have lots of experience with 504 plans, IEPS, and child study teams. I know, as a parent and an educator, that finding correct information can be challenging regarding these issues so I wanted to clarify a few misconceptions in this thread...

1) A 504 plan is NOT less than an IEP, it is just different.

2) You qualify for an IEP if you have one of 13 conditions (ie: other health impaired, autistic, learning disabled, etc.). If your child has ADHD, they will only qualify for an IEP if they have a disability that requires academic remediation. In an IEP you must have goals that you can work on. For example, your ADHD child will only qualify for an IEP if they have an additional problem, such as a reading disability or severe organizational issues. You used to have to have a discrepancy between your output and your measured IQ to be eligible but that is no longer the case.

3) You qualify for a 504 plan if you have a medical disability that affects SUBSTANTIALLY (the magic word here) a major life function, in this case, learning. It is left up to the school district, after reviewing all documentation provided, to determine if the child is "substantially" affected. Obviously, there can be great disagreement here. Unfortunately, not working to your potential has been legally found to NOT be a reason to automatically give a child a 504 plan.

4)Where to start?

a) If you do not have current IQ and Achievement testing, obtain some. Schools are not required to provide these outside a child study team or CSE or 504 referral but often will. Most ADHD specialists will not see a child until this is done and most insurance companies will not pay for an independent evaluation until this testing has been completed. It can be quite costly outside of a school setting so I'd encourage you to go through this hoop first if possible.

b) If the school won't provide testing for you voluntarily, you can test externally on your own-again costly, at around 750-1000 dollars. I'd also encourage you to find an advocate at your child's school. Sometimes this can be the school psychologist, the teacher, the school counselor, etc. Ask them how to get your child tested. They usually are aware of the process. If worst comes to worse, formally refer your child to the CSE (not 504 because if you refer you must provide as parents proof of disability yourself-they are not required to pay for testing if you refer, only if they refer.). Sometimes they will test as part of a 504 but they are not required too. To refer to CSE, you just need to hand write or type up a short letter saying "I'd like my child, XXX, to be formally evaluated by the Committee on Special Education. I believe that they are strugging with xxx (ie: reading, math issues, organization issues, etc.)." and return to the CSE office. The school will have 30 days to respond and begin the evaluation. Sometimes the school will suggest an alternative path (child study team, etc.). Be open to options as you want to work together and in the end if you get your testing, you are good!

c) After you have your testing and you've determined if you child does have a disability in addition to ADHD that require goals, refer to 504 or CSE if you haven't already. I'd also suggest finding a specialist in your area. That may mean even driving a few hours away to find one but since you see them sporadically and they are so knowledgable they are worth the investment in time.

d) After you've seen the specialist and had your child "processed" by the 504 or CSE eligibility committee and still aren't happy because your child was denied services, contact an advocate. Expect things to get much serious much faster and expect the school to be less "friendly" from this point forward. Advocates are worth their weight in gold if you only bring them in when it is absolutely necessary (you feel strongly your child is disabled and needs services and they are still being denied).

5) Lastly, just because a child has been granted a 504 plan or an IEP DOES not mean they keep it forever. The goal actually is to remediate the child's weaknesses. It is a success story when a child truly no longer needs services. Having a 504 plan or an IEP also DOES not guarentee that they will receive testing accomodations on their PSAT, SAT, etc, or even in college. For testing, you need to apply with the school's assistance directly to the test source, Collegeboard. ADHD accomodations are routinely denied at our school by collegeboard, even if they have them in our school and even if they use them. Your child's school counselor is the best source of information here. Also, having a 504 plan or an IEP DOES not guarentee you will get services in colleges, or if you do that they will be the same. Often students with ADHD can get some assistance but it, in my humble opinion, is typically far below what they got in school and often requires the student to be almost solely responsible for requesting and following up with the support.

Best of luck and feel free to ask any more questions if I can be helpful. This journey is so stressful, EVEN when in the know!

dancinonwater
11-28-10, 06:04 PM
This post sure scared me! but i feel better after reading the other posts! whew! i am very intelligent (iq is in genious range), but i have very bad ADHD. all my grades are As and Bs, but they could all be even higher because i can't finish tests on time and leave papers in my locker or forget we had homeowork, so we are actually going to talk to the school about a 504 plan tomorrow. Thanks! this thread was helpful!

Scotter
12-10-10, 04:29 PM
This is an old thread.

Since it started ADAAA has gone into effect. So some info is out of date.

My blanket advice is skip to the top, go to the district coordinators if you feel any resistance to reasonable requests for 504 or IDEA determinations. Their job is compliance, and they tend to err on the side of caution.

nyandle82
10-15-11, 04:11 AM
I just want to encourage you to not give up! I don't have any miraculous advice but I witnessed this growing up with my brother and my parents fought and fought and fought for him for a long time!!!! At first he was pushed aside but Finally he was granted accommodations that he needed and it was a only because of my parents perseverance. Thankfully they never gave up and he graduated with honors.

littlepig
12-28-11, 03:34 AM
Hello, all. I'm a mom of two kids with adhd. I am also a school employee. I have lots of experience with 504 plans, IEPS, and child study teams. I know, as a parent and an educator, that finding correct information can be challenging regarding these issues so I wanted to clarify a few misconceptions in this thread...

1) A 504 plan is NOT less than an IEP, it is just different.

2) You qualify for an IEP if you have one of 13 conditions (ie: other health impaired, autistic, learning disabled, etc.). If your child has ADHD, they will only qualify for an IEP if they have a disability that requires academic remediation. In an IEP you must have goals that you can work on. For example, your ADHD child will only qualify for an IEP if they have an additional problem, such as a reading disability or severe organizational issues. You used to have to have a discrepancy between your output and your measured IQ to be eligible but that is no longer the case.

3) You qualify for a 504 plan if you have a medical disability that affects SUBSTANTIALLY (the magic word here) a major life function, in this case, learning. It is left up to the school district, after reviewing all documentation provided, to determine if the child is "substantially" affected. Obviously, there can be great disagreement here. Unfortunately, not working to your potential has been legally found to NOT be a reason to automatically give a child a 504 plan.

4)Where to start?

a) If you do not have current IQ and Achievement testing, obtain some. Schools are not required to provide these outside a child study team or CSE or 504 referral but often will. Most ADHD specialists will not see a child until this is done and most insurance companies will not pay for an independent evaluation until this testing has been completed. It can be quite costly outside of a school setting so I'd encourage you to go through this hoop first if possible.

b) If the school won't provide testing for you voluntarily, you can test externally on your own-again costly, at around 750-1000 dollars. I'd also encourage you to find an advocate at your child's school. Sometimes this can be the school psychologist, the teacher, the school counselor, etc. Ask them how to get your child tested. They usually are aware of the process. If worst comes to worse, formally refer your child to the CSE (not 504 because if you refer you must provide as parents proof of disability yourself-they are not required to pay for testing if you refer, only if they refer.). Sometimes they will test as part of a 504 but they are not required too. To refer to CSE, you just need to hand write or type up a short letter saying "I'd like my child, XXX, to be formally evaluated by the Committee on Special Education. I believe that they are strugging with xxx (ie: reading, math issues, organization issues, etc.)." and return to the CSE office. The school will have 30 days to respond and begin the evaluation. Sometimes the school will suggest an alternative path (child study team, etc.). Be open to options as you want to work together and in the end if you get your testing, you are good!

c) After you have your testing and you've determined if you child does have a disability in addition to ADHD that require goals, refer to 504 or CSE if you haven't already. I'd also suggest finding a specialist in your area. That may mean even driving a few hours away to find one but since you see them sporadically and they are so knowledgable they are worth the investment in time.

d) After you've seen the specialist and had your child "processed" by the 504 or CSE eligibility committee and still aren't happy because your child was denied services, contact an advocate. Expect things to get much serious much faster and expect the school to be less "friendly" from this point forward. Advocates are worth their weight in gold if you only bring them in when it is absolutely necessary (you feel strongly your child is disabled and needs services and they are still being denied).

5) Lastly, just because a child has been granted a 504 plan or an IEP DOES not mean they keep it forever. The goal actually is to remediate the child's weaknesses. It is a success story when a child truly no longer needs services. Having a 504 plan or an IEP also DOES not guarentee that they will receive testing accomodations on their PSAT, SAT, etc, or even in college. For testing, you need to apply with the school's assistance directly to the test source, Collegeboard. ADHD accomodations are routinely denied at our school by collegeboard, even if they have them in our school and even if they use them. Your child's school counselor is the best source of information here. Also, having a 504 plan or an IEP DOES not guarentee you will get services in colleges, or if you do that they will be the same. Often students with ADHD can get some assistance but it, in my humble opinion, is typically far below what they got in school and often requires the student to be almost solely responsible for requesting and following up with the support.

Best of luck and feel free to ask any more questions if I can be helpful. This journey is so stressful, EVEN when in the know!


Well said. Especially the parts with my emphasis added. There must be a thorough review of all information and for a 504, a disbility that substantially affects a major life activity, one of which is learning.

happytexas
01-02-12, 12:35 AM
Wrightslaw.com has a lot of info...

Ask the Advocates: 504 or IEP for ADHD? (https://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.wrightslaw.com/nltr/11/nl.1101.htm%232&rct=j&q=wright%27s+law+adhd+too+smart+for+iep%3F&usg=AFQjCNH-9rpaqZfKSKTerRoO_XRSB63ODw&sa=X&ei=EjMBT-X5IseA2AXC7YXiBw&ved=0CCwQygQwAA)

Special Education Services for Children with ADD/ADHD - Wrightslaw (http://www.wrightslaw.com/nltr/11/nl.1101.htm)

Codykins
01-02-12, 01:11 AM
This post was originated in 2004. I can't believe it keeps getting rekindled, maybe it should be made a sticky?