my name is jennifer. my 5 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD and depression a couple months ago. they have been doing several tests over the last couple of months and we finally decided to start him on medication. the doctor prescribed him to 30mg vyvanse. he started the medication today and i'm so worried because about 30 minutes after he took it, he started crying about EVERTHING. i was trying to get him ready for school and he was crying about what shirt to wear, crying about what socks to wear (they are all the same!) and crying, telling me he's sorry for being so bad all the time. he never cries like that. he cried all the way to school and i'm just really worried. does anyone here know anything about vyvanse? i've been researching it all this morning and can't find a whole lot on it, please give me any info you have! thanks

Gunner's Mom - I'm sorry, I don't know anything about Vyvanse, but just want to send you a hug. I can hear how upset you are about your little guy.

Too big of a dose. They make a 20mg pill. Why the doc would start a 5yo on 30mg is beyond me. The one hour point is exactly when Vyvanse really starts taking affect. You can also open up the 30mg pill and just give your son half. Of course, talk to your doctor about it.

Part of it is just getting used to the med. After while those types of outbursts will go away. Good luck.

he just got home from school about an hour ago and hasn't stopped crying still! he keeps saying his head hurts so bad. this is ridiculous! i am definantly not giving him this medication tomorrow.

This is why some MDs only prescribe the short acting at first, in order to see if there are any side affects. If so, then the med wears off after a few hours. You will be stuck with this until dinner time with vyvanse.

Yah, 30 mg sounds like a lot. I hate this. My 16-year-old 140 pound son was taking 30 mg!!! But, the doc started him high at 50 mg, and it was a lot and a bad first day that we did NOT repeat. I don't know why docs have to start people off so high. Your poor little boy sounds miserable. I hope he gets a good night's rest and has a better day tomorrow. I'm totally with MGDAD, in that the docs should start with a low short-acting dose, especially with the gentle little ones, and work from there. It would be a lot less traumatic and worrisome.

Definitely give the doc a call and report your boy's reaction.

i'm definantly calling the doctor first thing in the morning. this has been a horrible day. it's 10:30 pm now and he's still awake! he's usually passed out by 8! and also, he's been running fever on and off during the day and complaining of bad headaches. i just found out earlier at my sister-n-law, who is 30 and weighs about 150 pounds is also taking 30mg of vyvanse. i wonder what the heck this doctor was thinking

Oh gosh. On my sons' first day, he was up till 2 am cleaning the bathroom. He accomplished more in that day he ever has in his entire life. His dad finally gave him some Tylenol PM to help him relax and get to sleep.

Did you son eat and drink well today? With any of the stimulant medications, it is VERY important to keep the blood sugar up by continuing to eat despite a lowered appetite, stay well-hydrated (stims seem to dehydrate people) as well as stay well-rested, or the headaches and bellyaches etc start creeping in really fast. Maybe he got a touch of something going around too.

Do you have a nurse line or someone you can call to get advise on if he can take something to help him to get settle down and get to sleep? I foresee an exhausted little boy tomorrow, meds or no meds, and an exhausted mommy too.

Jennifer, how's Gunner doing today?

well i didn't give him the medication today and he's been okay. we go back to the doctor in a couple of weeks to see what else can be done, but if him being on medication means he's going to be miserable then i refuse to give it to him.

I'm glad he's okay now that it's out of his system. What a day for both of you. :-(

There is a trial period at the beginning, to get the right med at the right dose. Most don't hit it right off the first time, some go through several meds and dose trials. If it's a wrong med or dose, it can be miserable, but you know right away and it's over in a day. Hang in there. We started in January and are still working on getting things just right, tho my son didn't take anything over the summer. Hopefully, we will get him settled on something that works with a minimum of sides for the long haul. You will too, just go slow and gentle and give it time to get it right.

Also, you may want to try anything new on a Saturday and Sunday to see how he reacts and you can observe and be there for him if needed, or if there are going to be an initial sides that wear off after a couple of days (tummy ache, headache at first) that gives him a head start to get those underway.

Kids may experience reactions and side effects to the medication different. They are not yet mature and may not be able to articulate what they are feeling. My brothers son was put on ritalin a few years ago. Let's just say the first week was tough on all of us. There was lots of crying, sleepless nights, temper tantrums, weird behavior. But good did come out of it. Once the dosage was adjusted and a few days passed, his son started to behave within the norm. He did take a few months to adjust to a lack of appetite, but with kids and snacks these days, that may not be such a bad thing all in itself. Hope this helps. Also...30mg is a tad on the high side for a 5 year old...but hey..I am not a doctor. I also recall that my brother mentioned that he suspected some of the acting out his son did was on purpose. Even a 5 year old may not like the idea of having to take a pill. Kids do act out sometimes...shoot I still remember my childhood and I was a little devil.

No need to wait two weeks till you see the doctor again. It is perfectly fine to call him to talk about what happened. Doctors expect you to call them when there are problems with a prescription. Especially with a new prescription.

Definately dont give up after this one bad day. Getting the right med is a trial and error process.

When my daughter swithed to Vyvanse from Focalin XR, her doctor prescribed 60mg pills for her. I started by giving her one third of a pill for a few days, then one half, ended up at 40mg. Then again, she is 11 and weighs 95lbs.

My stepson, who is 9 and weighs about 85 lbs started off at 20mg, and had those same crying fits. Dropped it down to a half pill, (yes, only 10mg) for a couple weeks. Then went back up to 20mg and he is great at that dose.

I don't know much about Vyvanse, but I do have a 5 year old son that we are trying medication on and I would definitely feel exactly the same as you if that had been our experience... medication should help, not hinder! I did read that 30mg is the usual starting dose for Vyvanse (http://adhd.emedtv.com/vyvanse/vyvanse-dosage.html) but that doesn't mean it can't be too much especially since it is approved for 6 and up (as most ADHD meds seem to be).

I do absolutely agree that starting a new dose (or new medication) on the weekend is usually best plan so you can first see first-hand how he reacts to it. Anticipate having a rough day, so you can be mentally "there" and have more patience.

My son is taking 10mg Biphentin (like concerta) sine the end of June and the first week was amazingly unbelievable...it was like meeting the little man I always knew were in there somewhere! But when he tried 20mg, as we were instructed to up the dosage a little every week until we found his ideal dosage...he was way worse than before medication started! Crying, hitting, screaming, it was horrible! Once we got him back down to just 10mg, he was fine again, and we saw dramatic improvements in his attention/listening, self-control etc. Turns out his ideal dosage was the smallest dose!

It's not easy to make the decision to try medications of this nature with a 5 year old, especially when they can't always tell you what they're feeling because they just don't have the maturity. Just remember there are different ones to try and different dosages often make a difference. I remember my son telling me that he loves being a "good boy" now... we never even said he was bad, but he obviously felt that way...

Good luck to you and your son. You shouldn't have to wait until your next appointment to call the doctor or nurse at his office to tell them what happened. They might tell you to try cutting the dose, or bring you back in sooner to talk about a different medication option...

I think your doctor should start him off on short acting dexedrine, adderall, or ritalin first at a small beginning dose like 5mg.

ok, so the doctor did finally call me back today. after i told him everything that's been going on, he said to DOUBLE THE DOSE! i was like whaaaat? no way. i told him i know i'm not the doctor but it seems like to me that he's already got too much in his system, why the heck would we double it? and then he said "oh... well maybe we should cut the dose in half" he told me to open the capsule every morning and only give him half of the medication.

so, this doctor saying double the dose one minute and cut the dose in half the next minute really makes me think he doesn't know what he's talking about. but then again.. i'm new at this. i mean, there's a big difference in 60mg and 15mg! he's only 5!

i was thinking about changing doctors again. this is the second doctor we've seen. the first one told me that my son is mentally retarded and needs to be put on disability which is hilarious considering he is really smart! the only problem is getting him to sit down and pay attention.

I think your doctor should start him off on short acting dexedrine, adderall, or ritalin first at a small beginning dose like 5mg.

That's what our neurologist did and it worked out well. Adderall wasn't a good fit, but ritalin was. We then switched to concerta (long-acting ritalin) which has been great. There were no huge episodes at the lower doses and short-acting ones even when we could see it wasn't right.




Gunnersmom, I am seriously concerned by your doctor's advice! Are these pediatricians? Can you see a neurologist or another specialist?

+1 on being concerned about the doc's advice. Is there another doc you could get a second or other opinion from? Cuz yah, there IS A HUGE difference between 15 and 60 mg of Vyvanse.

And, what a thing to hear from the first doc. Many ADHD individuals are very smart, even gifted. On treatment though, one could score better on the tests simply because they can focus long enough to get through them.

You have great instincts, Jennifer. Follow your mom's heart. ;=)

thats what i thought. i told the first doc that gunner was simply just not paying attention during the IQ test, hence the reason we were there for diagnosis and treatment lol he doesn't pay attention to anything! he said that gunner's IQ is 71 and normal IQ is 85 to 115. anything below 70 is mentally retarded so gunner is borderline and may have learning disabilities and stuff. i think putting a 5 year year old boy (whose only probem is ADHD and a little depression) on disability is just ridiculous.

so we go to the second doc and now i am distrusting him. like i said, i'm new at this. are all psychiatrist this incompetent? i feel as if they are just trying to get more money out of me. i feel like they aren't concerned with properly diagnosing and treating my little man

Well, once you get Gunner settled on treatment, have him go through the tests again. You'll likely find a higher score on those tests.

Last couple of weeks, I've had the same experience as you with the psychiatrist, that is why your post hits home for me, and I asked too, are they all like this???

I just left my son's psychiatrist. I thought it would be the best place to go to sort out which meds for which condition, but he settled that my son's depression was likely the result of his ADHD, so he'd treat that first and see how the depression followed. He would be a good resource (I thought) to pharmacologically combine to treat BOTH depression and ADHD. But, since that's not ending up being the case, I had the same feelings as you do now with your son's psych. In the end, he just didn't seem really all that knowledgeable in the meds he was prescribing (we both thought he was a bit overly jolly that we agreed to try the Vyvance), I didn't agree with the high dosages he was recommending on the three meds he tried, nor his reported feedback from his clinical experience. So, I ended up listening to my gut and just taking him to our wonderful GP, who agreed with our end of things. He had a totally different (largely negative) clinical feedback on the Vyvanse than the phsyciatrist did. Hmmmmmmmm. Then the GP just put him on a low dose of cheap yet effective and proven Adderall. I do get the feeling my GP is more interested in his patient's well-being than falling prey to any any incentives the drug reps offer.

i'm sorry that you have been going through the same type thing. gunner's doc also will not treat for the depression. he says treating the ADHD should also treat the depression. i sure hope so.

anyway, we have an awesome GP and i would trust her word over everything else but the only thing is, for some reason she isn't dealing with any of this. she gave me the original referral to the first doc and when that didn't work out, i went to her and she gave me another referral. i never even thought about her being able to prescribe him something because she keeps sending me to other places for his ADHD. so maybe i should talk to her about it.

another thing.. i've heard almost nothing but bad things about vyvanse from people who have taken it and from parents of children who have taken it, but nothing but good things from psychiatrists and from reading about it on the internet.

is your son on adderall? is treating his ADHD also helping with the depression?

From what I've read on here, seems depression often goes along with ADHD either as a separately treatable co-morbid, or as a direct result of the ADHD. Understandably, it would be depressing to constantly not be able to do what you know you are capable of and knowingly different from one's peers, but not know why or what to do to be more normal. I'm sure even your son could relate to that at even his young age.

Yes, the meds ARE helping my son with his depression. It makes my heart smile to see him happy doing what he knows he can do, but couldn't in the past. He was better on the Vyvanse too, but he crashed on it for some reason 2nd week into school. He just started on the low dose adderall this week, and is doing great and he's happy with it so far. Enough benefits at the lowest dose possible with the least amount of side effects. He has started drawing. Neither of us knew he could do that! Medicated, his grades are like night and day, he's driven, motivated, can focus and get things done. So, he's happy, and I'm happy nor worried about him near as much. I hope the adderall continues to help him with no glitches. Seeing him go through this med and that med and the dose adjustments are really hard, and kudos to these kids to keep trying what we put in front of them to get it right. I think that is why we are encouraging you to keep at it with Gunner, because getting him on the right med is worth all the struggle along the way.

I wonder why his GP isn't comfortable treating Gunner herself? If you are not happy with her referrals, definitely talk with her about your struggles and concerns so far. I hope you can speak with her sooner than in two weeks too!

And, I've observed the same as you about the Vyvanse. Makes one wonder! It does work well for many, but it seems to have a lot of sides and intolerance issues compared to other meds that have been around for a while, from patient reviews I've read. Pharmacology is a business, and sometimes it seems it just boils down to patents, rights, competition, marketing, and revenue. I say this not only as a patient, but seen from the inside as long-time career in the medical field in various capacities. None of that, though, can override our mother's instincts! LOL!

Sorry for the ramble. :o

ramble all you want! i need all the input i can get! the only input i have is from my boss, who thinks every child in this world need to be on ritalin or adderall. he has everyone in his family medicated and most of them don't need to be. and also from my mother, who has custody of my 8 year old nephew (who as ADHD), and they got his medication right the first time. he's been on it for a year and is doing very well so she hasn't experienced the hardships with it.

i'm glad that your son is doing good with the meds and its helping with the depression. i would do just about anything to take gunner's depression away. it always makes me sad when he's going through one of his episodes. it makes me feel even worse when i think about how young he is and how it will only get worse as he gets older if i don't get him some help.

i guess on saturday i will start giving him the vyvanse again, only half the does, and see if that does any better. i'd like to be with him all day on it rather than send him to school so i can see how he does

You're doing great, Jennifer. Let us know how it goes on Saturday with the 1/2 dose. You will both feel better giving it a trial over the weekend, and if he needs you, you'll be there. Hoping for the best.

Love the avatar. Cute kids! :-)

One of my friends sons takes Vyvanse. She said the neurologist recommended it for him because he also has diabetes and Vyvanse has the fewest side effects for him. (fwiw)

Our pediatrician said he was comfortable treating adhd with the basics (adderall, ritalin, etc), but he refers out if those don't work or it becomes more complicated.

Also, my son (8 y/o) has done ok in school in 1st and 2nd grade (not great, but not bad grades), but when we had him tested this summer he tested as gifted. The Dr who did the testing works with lots of ADHD kids and worked very carefully to test his true potential aside from the distractions. I would think this would be even more difficult to do with a 5 y/o.

Maybe see if the pediatrician might be willing to try adderall or ritalin in short-acting form on a trial basis for you? I know how frustrating it can be to wait for Dr appts when your son is struggling. Can she recommend any good neurologists experienced with ADHD?

Let us know how you're doing :)

thank you all for your help! i'll let you know how it goes on saturday and i'll ask our GP about a neurologist

It can take time to get a good doc but it is worth it. You will be working with this doc through the changes in your son's life, and having a good team is priceless. We had several referals and a wait before we found our current pdoc. He is absolutely wonderful and I am so thankful to have him on our side.

On the Vyvanse being good or bad: Everyone responds differently to the different meds so focus on your son's response to the med he is being given. I am doing really well on Vyvanse and it is so smooth for me that I do not know when it is wearing off. That is me-everyone is different. Both my kids do good on focalin or concerta.

IQ test- did the original doc go through the subtests of the IQ testing with you? IQ testing is made of parts and the doc administers some of the parts, based on what is suspected. Many times ADHD kids do poorly on the subtests that require attention (or are timed) and do well on the other subtests. This "spread" or difference in the high and low subtest scores is cause to look for learning issues and ADHD. In this case the high scores are indicative of the actual IQ and the low scores indicate learning issues.

Good luck with this tough journey. It will get better.

The drug company that owns Vyvanse is really pushing it now. Their previous ADHD drug was ADDerall, but the patent has ran out. So they are pushing to get people on their new drug Vyvanse. Having said that, I have heard about a lot of good experiences of the drug on these forums. Especially what vickie said about the smooth come down. That has been true for what I have seen with my kids. The other benefit of Vyvanse vs Adderal is that the concentration of the medication in your blood stream is very even. With Adderall there are two peaks. Of course, that is not a major issue, but still an issue. (there are no peaks with Concerta) Plus, Vyvanse lasts longer than any of the other ADHD meds. So, while I acknowledge that the drug companies are trying to push Vyvanse to make money, I really think it is an excellent medication.

For your doctor to tell you to double the dose, based on your description of the problems, is outrageous. If it were me, based on my limited experience with Vyvanse, and the young age of your child. I would only give him one third of the pill(10mg). No one ever was harmed by trying too small of a dose of an ADHD med.

When ADHD is properly treated, I believe it can relieve both depression or anxiety. Therefore, I would treat the ADHD for a while to see if the depression was reduced. You can always add an antidepressant later, and that is not too uncommon.

ok, well this morning i gave him half a dose and it's been good and VERY bad. how have any of you gone through getting your child on the right dosage of the right medication? this is literally breaking my heart.

he was very good all day until about 5:00 pm. so good it was actually kinda scary. he was like a zombie! he wasn't fidgeting at all like he normally does and he hardly spoke unless he was asked a direct question and even then, he wouldn't answer half the time. he showed no interest in anything all day. it's like everything bored him.

he got a bad headache a couple hours after taking his medication and then his stomach started hurting. after his stomach got better, we went to meet my mother for lunch. we got there before her and he got very impatient, kept saying he couldn't wait for her and he was too hungry. and once we got inside and ordered our food he was still going on and on and on about how hungry he was. then when his food got there, he wouldn't eat. he didn't take one bite! he continued all day after that just in a total zombie mode.

so around 5:00, he started getting really whiny and aggitated, crying about EVERYTHING like he did on the first day he was on it. his head started hurting again and everything his sisters did got on his nerves or made him mad or made him cry.

supper time.. he hardly ate anything, mostly just picked at his food. so my baby hasn't hardly eaten anything all day! he cried and whined all the way through supper and i just now got him calmed down. i put on dragon ball z, which is his favorite show as well as mine, and he seems to be okay for the time being.

about 30 minutes ago, i laid in his bed with him and held him and just let him cry on my shoulder. i told him to cry and cry and cry until his heart was content. i asked him how he felt and he just said "bad." i asked why and he said he didn't know but he felt bad all day. i asked him if he meant he felt sick and he said "no, bad like sad"

i know we just started our journey with this and we have a long way to go, but i'm already ready to give up. i can't stand seeing him like this.

Hang in there. There are many different types of medications, one might really help him. I'm certainly no doctor, but it sounds to me like this just is not the medicine for him. You're doing your best for your little guy, he is loved and cared for - he'll be ok :)

Yup, either not the medication or still too high of a dose. Give him a day off, then try a half of a half pill. Or tell your doctor you want to try something else. After having these problems I would ask for a small dose of a short acting medicine. I would also want to try something with Methylphenidate, instead of the Dexedrine that is in Vyvanse. I would ask for the smallest dose of short acting Focalin. It is a form of Methylphenedate that often has less side affects than the other types. I believe it is 5mg. I would also cut that pill in half and only give that to him. If you find that the short acting med works well, you can always go back and get the long acting version (Focalin XR).

By giving the short acting med, you son will only have to suffer for about 3-4 hours if there is a problem with the med. I would also go back to tiny tiny doses at first.

And yes there is no problem asking the doctor for a specific medication. He just wont give it to you if he does not want to. I make suggestions to my childs doctor all the time. Sometimes he agrees, sometimes he doesnt, but he always explains why so I understand.

Good luck.

Hi:

I have two boys (two of triplets) with ADD and ADHD.
The ADHD boy is on Vyvanse and is doing well. He tolerated stimulants well from the beginning and it truly helped him focus.

My other son with ADD was a totally different ballgame. He was tried on a few low doses of stimulants and was a crying mess. He would become hypersensitive, sobbing about socks being uncomfortable and every other thing. It was awful. Every stimulant did the same.

We finally ended up putting him on Strattera which is not a stimulant but a Antidepressant that is also used for ADD. It works better than nothing and no more crying ,however, I still wish he could tolerate the stimulants like his brother. His Dr. may try to add a very small stimulant along with the Stratterra but I am in no hurry yet. He just was one of those kids that couldn't handle the medications. He seem very sensitive to any medication so I bet he'd only need a half of a half of a small dose.

Your son may have started on a too large dose or maybe needs a different medication. Our son on Vyvanse is ten time worse the 1/2hour after he takes the pill then before. After that first 1/2 hour he calms down and focuses a lot better.

Good Luck,

Linda

Vyvanse really does not start working until about an hour has gone by. Even then its effects are not that strong. I think it takes about 2 hours until it is fully active.

My 7yo son has been taking Vyvanse (30mg) for about 4 months now and it's worked the best for him, though not without the usual side effects (can't get to sleep until about 11pm - 12am and low appetite). HOWEVER, there were 2 times we forgot to give it to him and THEN he was a crying mess. We've always thought of it as a withdrawal symptom.

Interestingly, he's complained about uncomfortable socks, too, though!
Debbie

Finding the right doctor is as much a process as finding the right meds. I got lucky with my doc. He listens to me more than anything, and lets me try what I think will work. This is the most important thing about finding the right doctor. In any diagnosis, if they don't listen it is more than half as probable to misdiagnose. Unfortunately, the ego's of some contributes to hearing/empathy loss.
Good Luck