View Full Version : ADD and IQ score


jimmp
10-07-09, 01:41 AM
Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone else had done an IQ assesment and what their results were. More specifically, were there any significant trends?

I have had a complete IQ assesment from a clinical psych and i have a 50 point discrepency between my highest scale (135 or so) and my lowest scale (73 or so).

Has anyone else had similarly diverging results?

Thanks

J

QueensU_girl
10-07-09, 02:05 AM
I don't believe there are any trends. ADDers can have high IQs or low IQs (eg in cases of FAS).

Archon
10-07-09, 05:27 AM
Working Memory Index and Processing Speed tend to be lower (my VCI > WMI by 50)

Arithmetic, Coding, Digit Span, Letter Number Sequencing tend to be lower. That said IQ tests aren't used as diagnostic tools for ADHD, the diagnosis is behavioural

Trooper Keith
10-07-09, 07:20 AM
Kaplan, B., Crawford, S., Dewey, D., & Fisher, G. (2000, September). The IQs of Children with ADHD Are Normally Distributed. Journal of Learning Disabilities, 33(5), 425. Retrieved September 17, 2009, from Psychology and Behavioral Sciences Collection database.

The purpose of this investigation was to determine whether or not attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)--when there was an absence of reading problems--was associated with having a high IQ. The vocabulary and block design short forms of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Third Edition were administered to 63 children with ADHD, 69 children with reading difficulties (RD), and 68 children with comorbid ADHD + RD. Results indicated that the distributions of estimated Full Scale IQs (FSIQ) for each of the three groups of children did not differ significantly from a normal distribution, with the majority of children (more than 50%) in each group scoring in the average range. The percentage of children with ADHD who scored in the above-average range for FSIQ was not significantly higher than the percentages of children in the other two groups. No significant group differences emerged for estimated FSIQ, vocabulary, or block design. It was concluded that children with ADHD are no more likely to have an above-average IQ than are other children.

That said, I think there may be trends on score discrepancies across different tests. I have a copy of my IQ test from when I was 9 somewhere, if I can find it I'll post the trend.

chips
10-07-09, 07:40 AM
I did the mensa IQ supervised test 17 years ago in England. Score 151. Got the certificate hiding somewhere in the cupboard.

rd_wnc
10-07-09, 11:55 AM
I always seem to fall into the mid 120's but it probably depends on the amount of math.

From what I read there is no difference in IQ between ADD folks and non ADD. High IQ ADDers obviously present more impairments and problems than their high IQ non ADD counterparts.

really
10-07-09, 12:57 PM
Whoa!!!!! My scores, like yours, are ALL over the place. I can take a test, get one score, take the same test later, and do much much worse. And my discrepancies are huge, like yours. On more than one occasion the scores for two tests have differed by more than 50 points. I have not yet taken an IQ test while treated for AD/HD.



My psych tells me that when she administers Ritalin to children, their IQ scores rise by as much as 20 points.



But IMO, EQ is more interesting than IQ for ADDers like us. There's all this talk about IQ, learning things, etc. But EQ really helps in a lot of areas where ADD hits. I would totally rather have a high EQ over a high IQ. I think my EQ could use a lot of work . . .

ADDwriter
10-07-09, 01:14 PM
I don't believe in IQ scores. I think those test measure how well someone can take a test rather than their intelligence.
Case in point: My son knows more about reptiles than anyone within a 500 mile radius would care to know about. He beats me at chess every time. Yes, I said every time. I haven't won a chess game against him in years. I call them his self-esteem building sessions.
And yet, he scored very low on an IQ test. It's because he has a physical (kinesthetic) learning style. He does horrible on tests, but his actions shows he knows his subjects inside out.

Oh well, I'll get off my soap box now.

ADDWriter

APSJ
10-07-09, 01:28 PM
Are you talking about discrepancies between two separately administered IQ tests, or between the various sub-tests of a single neuropsychological evaluation?

I've had two (that I know of) full neuropsych evals, one when I was in elementary school and one in high-school. There were discrepancies between them, but not particularly significant ones.

On the other hand, on both, there were significant discrepancies among the sub-tests. On the more recent of the two, for example, there was a twenty-six point discrepancy between my verbal and performance IQ. There were also significant discrepancies among the verbal and performance subtests.

While my understanding of these things is limited, in my case the discrepancies did not contribute to my ADHD diagnosis(which I had received long before), but instead led to a new one: Learning Disorder Not Otherwise Specified-Visual Memory Impairment (in the last eval. In earlier ones it was called "non-verbal learning disability" or "right hemisphere dysfunction")

ADDwriter
10-07-09, 01:49 PM
Sorry, APSJ, I don't recall all the details.

Kiddder
10-07-09, 02:58 PM
I don't believe in IQ scores. I think those test measure how well someone can take a test rather than their intelligence.
Case in point: My son knows more about reptiles than anyone within a 500 mile radius would care to know about. He beats me at chess every time. Yes, I said every time. I haven't won a chess game against him in years. I call them his self-esteem building sessions.
And yet, he scored very low on an IQ test. It's because he has a physical (kinesthetic) learning style. He does horrible on tests, but his actions shows he knows his subjects inside out.

Oh well, I'll get off my soap box now.

ADDWriter

First...what does EQ mean referenced in really's post?

I lean in this direction, with ADDwriter, in many ways too. I can and do learn and retain from methods like reading and listening but can pick up, understand and remember most anything by doing it, even just once (hence the cooking school) so even though I can learn and retain things most ways I am definately more kinesthetic in learning style (I lernt most gooder by hand) :D

I have only taken two IQ tests in my life and one was my senior year in HS which was pretty short as I remember and it came out mid 120's. (Yeah, I know, way back then there wasn't nearly as much to learn, especially history, right? ;)) When I was 22 and seemingly lost as to what to do with my life I went to an aptitude assesment facility of some kind (only remember it was in a medical complex as opposed to an educational campus) and spent around 4 hours taking several types of tests and my IQ score then was 132.....I don't know if difference between 124 and 132 is significant or if the second test was more accurate because it was more detailed and involved. I DO remember a counselor revealing my two highest scores in the career aptitude testing evaluations I took indicated I would be equally successful as either a Producer or an IRS Agent :)....seems to be two widely differing careers to me.

Fortunately and maybe surprisingly, I seem to test well in most cases, all through school.....meaning I am not what I typically read/hear about ADDers tend to test far below their actual level of intelligence.

ryanchappell
10-07-09, 03:04 PM
Yeah Jimmp, what do you mean by scale? A separately administered test? Or like different areas of intelligence.

Overall I think I am 98th percentile (130 something), but only like 85% verbal, 93% math, and like 99% in spatial. (those block puzzles) What good is that in your typical office computer job? I guess it would help as a Engineer, Machinist, CAD, or construction. ..

On those emotional IQ tests online I score around 80. ..

I have always considered my self unbalanced academically, very left brained. I made 32s on the ACT in Math and Science and 18-21 in English and SS. I think it is related to being inattentive, and some type of personality trait, along the lines of being an Aspie or extremely mild undiagnosable autistic traits. Somehow this is all tied in with brain chemisty, norepinephrine, serotonin, etc, and related to daytime sleepiness problems, DSPS . I doubt it has even been researched.

joklem
10-07-09, 03:15 PM
There was such a discrepancy in my results as well. Lower verbal and higher spatial?

ryanchappell
10-07-09, 03:17 PM
One thing the I find influences my score most of all is whether the test is timed. I like to take my time and figure out answers, so a timed 50 question in 12 minute test like the Wonderlic, can be a disaster, if my ADD is not in check. I have taken it four times for employment screening, before being diagnosed with ADD, with scores varying from 24-low 40s, supposedly you can double the score and add it 60 to get an idea of IQ. The NFL uses it at combines to see if "anyone is home." Players have scored the minimum, 1, up to the 40s.

In college I always took the maximum amount of time a professor allowed, usually not totally prepared of the exam. I always felt like I could figure out the questions I didn't study for, by just thinking about them more, or using previously divulged information in other questions.

A lot of people are shallow thinking and believe, "You either know it or you don't" When I scored well on timed test I always had to put forth unnatural effort to skip questions that would bog down my time. I don't like doing that.

ryanchappell
10-07-09, 03:28 PM
I wonder if you could make a category of us "left brained," sleepy, inattentives.

Are there inattentives that are "right brained?" (Prefer literature, social activities, interior decorating to science and math.) Or are these people not subject to the inattentiveness to the point we are? Maybe these people are more likely to be hyper?

Many times in the past I have wondered if my tendency to over think, and preference to think spatially wear out and tire the frontal lobe, etc, and cause the add?(before I suspected add, and got diagnosed, I thought this was making me need 10 hrs of sleep a night)

The_Subreption
10-07-09, 05:02 PM
Did the wechsler

Verbal, 148
Conceptual, 130
Working memory, 100
Processing Speed, 80

And that's why cows,
As I'm sure you've herd,
Raise their eyebrows,
For I'm good with a word.

really
10-07-09, 05:58 PM
One thing the I find influences my score most of all is whether the test is timed. I like to take my time and figure out answers, so a timed 50 question in 12 minute test like the Wonderlic, can be a disaster, if my ADD is not in check. I have taken it four times for employment screening, before being diagnosed with ADD, with scores varying from 24-low 40s, supposedly you can double the score and add it 60 to get an idea of IQ. The NFL uses it at combines to see if "anyone is home." Players have scored the minimum, 1, up to the 40s.

No way! This is sweet info! I never knew this!

In college I always took the maximum amount of time a professor allowed, usually not totally prepared of the exam. I always felt like I could figure out the questions I didn't study for, by just thinking about them more, or using previously divulged information in other questions.

A lot of people are shallow thinking and believe, "You either know it or you don't" When I scored well on timed test I always had to put forth unnatural effort to skip questions that would bog down my time. I don't like doing that.

I am the exact same way. I would check and recheck and recheck and recheck my answers. Even on the last times, I'd still find mistakes. But I really connect with you on figuring out answers. I would always cross-reference questions, eliminate things, etc. It really saved my butt during the exams where I sat down and realized that for all my studying, I didn't know a thing!

So kudos to you. You get Really-points for kicking *** like that. ;)

really
10-07-09, 06:00 PM
There was such a discrepancy in my results as well. Lower verbal and higher spatial?

That would make a lot of sense. My spatial skills were among the very highest and my verbal was among the lowest.

really
10-07-09, 06:01 PM
I think that most of us here have EQs that are "lower" than our IQs.

speedo
10-07-09, 06:09 PM
It's fairly common for people with ADHD to have a verbal IQ score that is substantially higher than their performance IQ. In my case my verbal IQ was 20 points higher than my performance IQ. A full neuropsychological evaluation revealed that I have a pronounced visualspatial processing deficit, but have a very good memory which helps me with things like sequencing and coding. What it all means is that I have a high overall IQ that I use to compensate for my defecits. This is not unusual for people with adhd. Several studies have pointed out that ADDers with a high IQ often have a better outcome in terms of education and employment. All that means is that it all varies a lot from one individual to the next.


Me :D

dviper785
10-07-09, 07:05 PM
In my results with the WAIS-3 IQ test (this was before I started any treatment) my normal score divergence was 30-40 points between subtests, but the biggest gap was under the performance category where I got a subtest score of 170 in matrix reasoning, and a score of 90 in picture completion, so an 80 point difference between subtests :p

Crazygirl79
10-07-09, 07:19 PM
EQ I think stands for Emotional IQ Kiddder.

Like a lot of the posters on here I have scores that are all over the place although is average I have difficulties in areas such as working memory, mathematics and spatial awareness.

Personally I don't think IQ is relevant when diagnosing conditions such as ADD, ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorders as the brain is differently wired to the so called normal brain and some of the IQ tests aren't designed for such a "different" brain.

Selena

jimmp
10-07-09, 09:35 PM
Yeah Jimmp, what do you mean by scale? A separately administered test? Or like different areas of intelligence.

Overall I think I am 98th percentile (130 something), but only like 85% verbal, 93% math, and like 99% in spatial. (those block puzzles) What good is that in your typical office computer job? I guess it would help as a Engineer, Machinist, CAD, or construction. ..

On those emotional IQ tests online I score around 80. ..

I have always considered my self unbalanced academically, very left brained. I made 32s on the ACT in Math and Science and 18-21 in English and SS. I think it is related to being inattentive, and some type of personality trait, along the lines of being an Aspie or extremely mild undiagnosable autistic traits. Somehow this is all tied in with brain chemisty, norepinephrine, serotonin, etc, and related to daytime sleepiness problems, DSPS . I doubt it has even been researched.

I should have been more clear in my question. I wasnt asking for tor trends in relation to ADD and IQ as in do people with ADD have higher or lower IQ scores.

What i was asking is whether people who have had a full IQ assesment encountered significant differences between the subtests used in the IQ test. For example, digit span compared to the coding sub test.


Apologies for the confusion.

ryanchappell
10-07-09, 10:15 PM
One thing the I find influences my score most of all is whether the test is timed. I like to take my time and figure out answers, so a timed 50 question in 12 minute test like the Wonderlic, can be a disaster, if my ADD is not in check. I have taken it four times for employment screening, before being diagnosed with ADD, with scores varying from 24-low 40s, supposedly you can double the score and add it 60 to get an idea of IQ. The NFL uses it at combines to see if "anyone is home." Players have scored the minimum, 1, up to the 40s.

I meant to add that the times I did well on the wonderlic, I self medicated with caffeine, before I even knew I had ADD. I just knew if I didn't I would feel sleepy and sluggish.

Raspberrynoodle
10-08-09, 06:48 AM
I am recently diagnosed ADD, very kinesthetic learner, top 1% IQ in supervised Mensa test.

Not sure if that helps your research since I do not know the breakdownof the test parts.

Marspider
10-08-09, 08:37 AM
I've found that if I know I'm doing an IQ test I get stressed and do worse than I would do. I once started doing one which was called a puzzle. I like puzzles so got enthusiastic but got bored near the end and just randomly answered questions. I still got a high score. It wasn't the end till I realized it was an IQ test, and my brain started freaking out.
So I'm not sure about my IQ. I feel like I'm getting dumber though.

Trooper Keith
10-08-09, 08:45 AM
I couldn't find my copy anywhere, I must've given it to a healthcare provider at some point. Anyways, I have a request in at my pediatrician's office, they'll pull it out of my chart but it'll be Monday before I hear back, what a pain in the ***, right?

Oh dammit, I just realized this is in the inattentive forum. I'm combined type, I hope you don't mind if I play too.

NoReally
10-08-09, 11:26 AM
I had a supervised test when I was 15 and came out with a total IQ of 125. I took it again, a home version published by Mensa I think, a few years later and came out the same. My parents had scores of 133 & 128 -- it was a little upsetting as a teenager to realize that my parents actually were smarter than me. :)

I don't remember the scores on the subtests, but I do know in both cases, as well as in any aptitude tests I have ever taken, I have a consistent result: Always around 98-99 percentile in English, 90 or so in math. But those spatial relationship things, I score waaaay low. I just can't make any sense of those little cubes whatsoever. I'll be cruising along on the rest of the test and suddenly drop off a cliff in the spatial relationship part. Like, I might as well be suddenly taking a test in Russian or something -- I'm doing good to get a single answer right.

That, along with the ADD, probably explains why I'm a nervous driver.

The_Subreption
10-09-09, 05:20 PM
I had a supervised test when I was 15 and came out with a total IQ of 125. I took it again, a home version published by Mensa I think, a few years later and came out the same. My parents had scores of 133 & 128 -- it was a little upsetting as a teenager to realize that my parents actually were smarter than me. :)



Probably not as crushing as having parents significantly dumber than you, which would limit your development and make you feel a bit sad for them.

Plus, at least you can try to out-achieve your parents, then you'll have the last laugh, regardless of IQs.

arrested_truth
10-10-09, 07:11 AM
Through all my testing the only thing that really stood out was my Perceptual Reasoning scored in the 97th upper percentile, when generally it's more common to be around the 60-75 region. I guess this just further proves my need for visual learning to be the main source of input when I'm really trying to learn something.
Just hearing what I'm trying to study won't do it

hceuterpe
10-10-09, 08:05 AM
Interesting subject... When I was first diagnosed as a kid (5 or 6), my teacher gave me an IQ test to rule out any sort of developmental, learning disability. I scored a 132 at the time without the meds. Now if only I kept taking the meds through college and 4 years after, when working....
Flash forward to now: I can say for those that know me on a casual level consider me to be rather "intellectual". The problem is I couldn't spend that energy on one subject. So while I'm not at all known as being dumb, I'm also not known for being focused. In terms of the verbal, when I started Strattera, my English and especially verbal skills (think those needed to win an argument or to prove a point) skyrocketed. Strangely I've also been a very good speller even before treatment. Yet I'm a bad proof reader (and I edited this post!). Further, I can almost always point out when some makes a some factual mistake (though prior to the treatment i would always immediately correct people on that, which the same people generally don't like..) Also "random" non sequitur thought patterns decreased somewhat after treatment. Amazingly enough, it's overwhelmingly helpful when you are trying to concentrate on something to not have random thoughts coming at you in all directions. Instead of trying to stay focused and not get distracted by trivial things, it's not until the end of the day I realize: "Hey I forgot to get distracted today!". To the average person, that type of thought pattern should be trivial--but we don't typical thought patterns, something I'm sure we all know.. I get to start adderall in addition to the Strattera on Monday. Because while the Strattera helps, it leaves me feeling groggy. After doing some research, it makes sense why Strattera would aid as a supplemental medication rather than on it's own.

All in all I guess my point is this doesn't mean a lack of intelligence and shouldn't result in low IQ scores. Rather I think it's our overall inability (untreated of course) to apply that level of intelligence on a single task at hand, and hence the perceived notion of a lack of intelligence by others who aren't ADHD.

Waitingame
10-10-09, 09:43 AM
Thomas E. Brown has a bit to say on high IQ/discrepancy within scores and validates some points made in this discussion:

http://www.drthomasebrown.com/research/posters.html

When his pattern of IQ discrepancies in adult add-ers matched up to my test, it was certainly a light bulb moment for me (never diagnosed, textbook inattentive). I added Brown's article to the pile of substantiating evidence for my pdoc that I ultimately didn't need because I couldn't present my case in an organized fashion, leading the doc to suspect that I had ADD...

I have the extended article in PDF from the Journal of Attention Disorders if anyone would like to read it.

really
10-10-09, 01:32 PM
Thomas E. Brown has a bit to say on high IQ/discrepancy within scores and validates some points made in this discussion:

http://www.drthomasebrown.com/research/posters.html

When his pattern of IQ discrepancies in adult add-ers matched up to my test, it was certainly a light bulb moment for me (never diagnosed, textbook inattentive). I added Brown's article to the pile of substantiating evidence for my pdoc that I ultimately didn't need because I couldn't present my case in an organized fashion, leading the doc to suspect that I had ADD...

I have the extended article in PDF from the Journal of Attention Disorders if anyone would like to read it.

I'd love a copy!

Waitingame
10-19-09, 02:10 AM
Yes- if anyone would like a copy of the Thomas E. Brown article, PM me & I'll gladly email it your way!

Kerplunk288
12-11-09, 04:23 AM
It seems that I've had similar results, at least insofar I too have had statistically significant discrepancies - though I find it odd that most people have relatively strong spacial relations. I was the other way around. I scored really well in my Verbal Comprehension 150. My Perceptual Organization and Working Memory were decent, 123 and 119 respectively. Yet, I had an abysmal processing speed hovering just around 100.

The high verbal score wasn't much of surprise. I love reading, philosophy and the liberal arts in general. Though I'm still not sure why so many people seem to be math and science oriented - maybe I'm just an anomaly.

Newt_21
12-14-09, 04:14 PM
I've read somewhere before that IQ tests aren't accurate with ADD people because the tests inadvertently measure attention as well. For example. On timed tests an ADD'er might have to read the question 3 times. This allows less time to think about the answer and significantly throws off the question time ratio the test was designed around.