View Full Version : question about focalin


alysmom24
01-07-10, 07:27 PM
Hello!

My 5 year old daughter was just switched from adderall xr 10 mg to focalin xr 5 mg today. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if it is ok to eat vitamin c foods with focalin. With adderall it was not and that is why I wanted to check about the focalin. Thanks!

LucidityBane
01-10-10, 01:15 AM
Focalin is a safer medication than Adderall. I dare anybody to prove otherwise.

Amphetamines are neurotoxic and are supposed to only be used for extreme cases of ADHD in which the patient's symptoms are not controlled sufficiently by Methylphenidate.

Here are two studies about the neuroprotective qualities of methylphenidate;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2701286/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12604695



Here are a few more informative studies;



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19958043

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19702487


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16768632

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18601306




Focalin is a refined derivative of Methylphenidate. This refinement was engineered to remove the parts of the medication that were causing the common side effects while keeping intact the therapeutic ability to treat ADHD symptoms.

There are still side effects but overall the data from Focalin studies indicate that it is effective in 80-85% of the patients taking the medication. This is comparable, if not superior to Dexedrine or Adderall.




She can eat normally and is allowed to exercise while on Focalin(unlike Adderall). In my experience it is best to take it no more than 4-5 days a week, otherwise it is possible that over time she will have to take larger doses to achieve the same therapeutic effect.


All medications have side effects and risks, but Focalin seems to be the best choice out of the ADHD medications.

These days Methylphenidate medications get slammed because everybody wants Adderall and the only way to get it is to say that Concerta (the first line of defense) does not work and causes side effects (Doctor! I took Concerta and my arm fell off,,, now give me Adderall!).

good luck!

Childe Roland
01-18-10, 04:07 AM
Focalin is a safer medication than Adderall. I dare anybody to prove otherwise.

Amphetamines are neurotoxic and are supposed to only be used for extreme cases of ADHD in which the patient's symptoms are not controlled sufficiently by Methylphenidate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19958043 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19702487 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19702487)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16768632
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18601306


None of your citations supports your claims about Adderall. Like Methlphendiate, Adderall and other amphetamine ADHD medications are a first line treatment for for ADHD, and are considered safe when taken under a doctor's supervision. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/mental-health-medications/what-medications-are-used-to-treat-adhd.shtml

kibbled_bits
01-18-10, 05:25 PM
Focalin pretty much the safest, supposed to be as safe or safter than ritalin, concerta, etc. Focalin XR 5mg is pretty low dose, it's like taking 2.5mg in the morning and 2.5mg at noon. According to my doc acidic foods may slow the absorption of Focalin XR but will not counteract it and told me not to worry about it. However if she's having a grapefruit for breakfast with a glass of orange juice then that's another story ;-)

LucidityBane
01-19-10, 12:06 AM
None of your citations supports your claims about Adderall. Like Methlphendiate, Adderall and other amphetamine ADHD medications are a first line treatment for for ADHD, and are considered safe when taken under a doctor's supervision. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...eat-adhd.shtml (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/mental-health-medications/what-medications-are-used-to-treat-adhd.shtml) http://www.addforums.com/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.addforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=831342)

Adderall is an amphetamine blend..


YeaH I understand Adderall has more of an euphoric effect than Methylphenidate, but that usually has a price.

are you telling me that amphetamines are not neurotoxic? Do search on Google, and you will be able to spend a week examining all the articles on amphetamine neurotoxicity.


get you started with this;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17449459

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10336889

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16696830

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8959030

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19877498

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19799584

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18698321



I understand that Adderall does work better for some people, and that is great for them.

Just do not pretend that amphetamines are as safe as the methylphenidate derivatives, because they are not.

Childe Roland
01-19-10, 02:15 AM
Again, none of your citations supports your position. Those articles all relate to drug abuse. High doses of AMP can cause neurological damage. That does not mean that therapeutic doses taken as prescribed are harmful. That is a very different thing. You are apparently making the same error in reasoning as someone who believes that vitamin supplements are harmful because of the fact that very high doses of vitamins can be toxic.

LucidityBane
01-22-10, 08:07 PM
Again, none of your citations supports your position. Those articles all relate to drug abuse. High doses of AMP can cause neurological damage. That does not mean that therapeutic doses taken as prescribed are harmful. That is a very different thing. You are apparently making the same error in reasoning as someone who believes that vitamin supplements are harmful because of the fact that very high doses of vitamins can be toxic.

No, your statement is incorrect. You seem to think that ADDerall or Dexedrine are somehow not amphetamines.

Yes, the toxicity is dose dependent but that does not mean that the 'regular' prescribed dose is not neurotoxic. Methylphenidate is neuroprotective and there are no dietary or exercise restrictions with Methylphenidate.

Talk about cognitive dissonance..Geez..


Explain to me how this does not support the known fact that amphetamines are neurotoxic;



Increased blood oxidative stress in amphetamine users.

Govitrapong P (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Govitrapong%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Boontem P (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Boontem%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Kooncumchoo P (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Kooncumchoo%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Pinweha S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Pinweha%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Namyen J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Namyen%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Sanvarinda Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Sanvarinda%20Y%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Vatanatunyakum S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Vatanatunyakum%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).
Center for Neuroscience, Faculty of Science, Mahidol University, Thailand.
Amphetamine derivatives have been shown to be a potential brain neurotoxin based on the production of free radicals that occurs after administration. The purpose of this study was to examine the lipid peroxidation and antioxidant enzymes in the blood of amphetamine users. The plasma lipid peroxidation was determined and reported as thiobarbituric acid reactive substance and was significantly increased (+21%), whereas the activities of the erythrocyte antioxidant enzymes glutathione peroxidase, catalase, and superoxide dismutase were significantly decreased (-32%, -14% and -31%, respectively) in amphetamine users. These results implicated the potential role of oxidative stress in amphetamine-induced neurotoxicity.





As the use of amphetamine in the treatment of ADHD has increased, a large body of preclinical data has accrued indicating that amphetamine has the potential to damage brain dopamine-containing neurons in experimental animals. In particular, animals treated with amphetamine develop lasting reductions in striatal dopamine, its major metabolite dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC), its rate-limiting enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase, its membrane transporter (DAT), and its vesicular transporter (VMAT2) (Gibb et al., 1994 (http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/315/1/91.full#ref-11); McCann and Ricaurte, 2004 (http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/315/1/91.full#ref-22)). Anatomic studies indicate that lasting dopaminergic deficits after amphetamine are due to damage of dopaminergic nerve endings in the striatum, with sparing of dopaminergic nerve cell bodies in the substantia nigra.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/315/1/91.full

When those studies refer to 'AMPH' or 'Amphetamine derivatives' they are referring to the ingredients in Adderall.


Again I am not against the use of Adderall to treat ADD, nor do I think that there are no side effects from other ADD drugs,, I just think that way too many people take AMPH and do not understand that there is a price to long term use.

You can believe what you want to believe,

Good luck and at least be productive with your medicated time.

thug
01-23-10, 11:14 AM
back to your question

my experience is
when i was on focalin IR and i consumed alot of vitiman C
(when i visit my parents i binge out on orange's and orange juice)
i noticed that my meds seemed to last 1/2 as long

i take focalin xr and havn't noticed vitiman c affecting it

i believe vitiman c in moderation is ok with focalin xr.

but i have noticed that i am always thirsty since swiching from ritilan La/ does your daughter get this effect?
-thug

Childe Roland
01-25-10, 07:10 PM
No, your statement is incorrect. You seem to think that ADDerall or Dexedrine are somehow not amphetamines."


Your studies only support the conclusion that high doses of amphetamine are neurotoxic. You have failed to provide evidence to support your apparent opinion that amphetamine is neurotoxic at dosages commonly prescribed for ADD (therapeutic doses). If you are going to make a sensational claim such as that a medicine commonly prescribed to children causes brain damage, then you should be prepared to support your claim with evidence that is on point. If you look at the methods of the studies you linked, you will see that they did not test the point for which you are citing them. Instead, the studies tested the effects of large quantities of AMP in drug users or lab animals. It would be a logical fallacy to conclude that because a great deal of something is harmful, then a small amount must also be harmful. There may be a threshold amount, beyond which the medication becomes harmful -- just as there is a threshold amount beyond which Vitamin A becomes toxic.

My criticism of your argument is that you do not seem to understand the scientific method. Scientific studies test very specific variables (i.e. the effect of high dosages of AMP) and cannot be reliably extrapolated to different variables (i.e. the effect of low doses of AMP). I'm not suggesting that it is irrational to be be concerned that a medication, which is demonstrably toxic in large doses, may also be harmful in small doses. However, you should not pretend you have found scientific evidence to confirm your fears. At most, the studies you cite suggest that it would be an excellent idea to do studies of neurotoxicity at therapeutic doses.

Also, please note that I am not claiming AMP is completely safe at therapeutic doses. But I will trust the medical profession -- which embraces AMP treatment of ADD as safe and effective -- unless and until there is valid, on-point, and confirmed scientific evidence that the medical profession is wrong. See http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder/complete-index.shtml#pub5 ("Under medical supervision, stimulant medications are considered safe. Stimulants do not make children with ADHD feel high, although some kids report feeling slightly different or 'funny.' Although some parents worry that stimulant medications may lead to substance abuse or dependence, there is little evidence of this.")

The ADHD Fan
01-29-10, 10:08 PM
If possible I'd try to stay away from citrus foods as much as possible at the meal right after taking the focalin. The absorption of focalin is compromised in the presence of organic acids (which includes vitamin C), so it's not just the vitamin C, but things like soda (which contains carbonic acid), vinegar (acetic acid), or even things like coffee or tea (which your 5-year old probably isn't drinking anyway!), are things you might want to steer clear from.

I got this from a medical website (http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Medications&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=51&ContentID=66273), and the window they give for vitamin C and focalin is 1-2 hours, meaning your daughter should wait this amount of time before taking any kind of acidic food, whenever possible.

I don't think a little bit of vitamin C will completely negate the medicine's effects (the delivery methods of most medications are often becoming more and more resistant to food-related effects in a lot of cases), but just do your best to keep them separate whenever possible.
Hello!

My 5 year old daughter was just switched from adderall xr 10 mg to focalin xr 5 mg today. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if it is ok to eat vitamin c foods with focalin. With adderall it was not and that is why I wanted to check about the focalin. Thanks!

Melissa Mason