along with adhd John has been diaognosied with d.a.m.p (deficits in attention, motor control and perception)

as far as i know its a term that originally came from Sweden and is also being used in Australia.

i have been really trying to get some extra info on it but i'm not having much luck (I'm quite new to all this computer stuff :confused: ) i can get a lot on adhd but only a few lines on damp.

if any of you could point me in the right direction i would really really appriciate it. even the doctor never had any info she could give me on it she only gave me sheets on adhd (great help :rolleyes: )

I know its a lot to ask but please please please help me as i so want to help John. :cry:

DAMP is the combination of ADHD and DCD (developmental coordination disorder). Researching this condition can be tricky, because the terminology varies so much.
This article gives a pretty thorough explanation of motor coordination problems.
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2640.htm

When you go looking for more info, you may have more luck searching for some of these terms, rather than DAMP:
developmental coordination disorder/s
motor skills disorder/s
dyspraxia/s
sensory integration dysfunction

Thanks Krisp
:D
Every bit of help greatfully received :D

I met Gabriela in the chat room last night and she is actually from sweden and has said she has read quite a bit about it, so she has also offered to help me find out more Which will be Great.

If anybody else has any ideas I will look into every last one of them so please keep them comming :) thank you all

i haven't got time to gather all the information on damp that i have (on and off my computer), but i'll try to get it done this week - check back with me on thursday, to kick me in the *BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!*...
:D
the term damp was coined by professor christopher gillberg (swedish child psychiatrist, and sweden's top researcher in the neuropsychiatric field - he's also a professor at some university in the uk).

i met him about a year ago, and he's a very nice man!
(*and* he knows *a lot* about neuropsychiatry!;-)
:cool:

Is DAMP a subset/superset of ADD or a completely seperate condition.

I have never had hyper issues, just attention issues.
I also definately have motion control issues, so I am curious.

"damp" is "just" another name for add with dcd (developmental coordination disorder), i think...
:confused:
i believe professor gillberg felt that neither the diagnosis "add" nor the diagnosis "adhd" really covers the motion control deficit that many of the patients who've been diagnosed with either add or adhd show.

professor gillberg diagnosed me as having adhd, add and dcd with asperger syndrome traits (or adhd and damp with asperger syndrome traits;-).

i actually didn't know the term "damp" was used outside of scandinavia!
:o

I hope that as we all learn more about these conditions, the terminology will get more standardized. In the USA, a child who presented with the same set of symptoms as clawless's son would not receive a diagnosis of DAMP (as that term is not used here), but would be dxed as ADHD, and would have additional diagnoses added to describe the rest of his symptoms. Dr. Gillberg has lumped this collection of symptoms together, in recognition of the fact that they very often occur together. US doctors still refer to each aspect separately, for example:

ADHD for the attention disorder;
Motor skills disorder, developmental coordination disorder, dyspraxia, motor planning disorders, or "clumsy child syndrome" for the motor issues;
Sensory integration dysfunction for the perceptual issues;
and possible other dxes as well if the child has specific problems with vision, auditory processing, etc.

Is that as clear as mud now? :rolleyes: The same constellation of issues is popping up all over, but specialists are describing it in different ways and lumping different aspects of it together in their descriptions. I would love to see a little more consistency in their approaches, especially since my son falls into this category too! ;)

i *totally* agree!
:)
it's all *very* confusing - especially when you (like me) try to learn what researchers from other countries are finding...
:confused:
as i mentioned earlier, i have a neuropsychiatric diagnosis, but in addition to this, i also have a *medical* diagnosis that with at least 99% certainty (i'll leave the last % for the genes i got from my father, who'd probably be diagnosed with adhd/add and/or asperger syndrome, were he to be tested) caused my neuropsychiatric "problems".
it's called (in the u.s, where most of the research on this condition is done) acc - agenesis of the corpus callosum.
i have a form of this condition called p-acc - partial agenesis of the corpus callosum.
in sweden, however, it's called (by the *very* few doctors who've ever heard of it) cca, and so when i'm refer(r?)ing to it as p-acc, and mentioning something i read about this condition, almost *none* of the doctors know what i'm talking about...
:(
it would be *very* helpful if the doctors/researchers/specialists could agree upon a common terminology...

People with dyspraxia usually have a combination of problems, including:

Gross motor co-ordination skills (large movements):
Poor balance. Difficulty in riding a bicycle, going up and down hills
Poor posture and fatigue. Difficulty in standing for a long time as a result of weak muscle tone. Floppy, unstable round the joints. Some people with dyspraxia may have flat feet
Poor integration of the two sides of the body. Difficulty with some sports involving jumping and cycling
Poor hand-eye co-ordination. Difficulty with team sports especially those which involve catching a ball and batting. Difficulties with driving a car
Lack of rhythm when dancing, doing aerobics
Clumsy gait and movement. Difficulty changing direction, stopping and starting actions
Exaggerated ‘accessory movements’ such as flapping arms when running
Tendency to fall, trip, bump into things and people


Fine motor co-ordination skills (small movements):
Lack of manual dexterity. Poor at two-handed tasks, causing problems with using cutlery, cleaning, cooking, ironing, craft work, playing musical instruments
Poor manipulative skills. Difficulty with typing, handwriting and drawing. May have a poor pen grip, press too hard when writing and have difficulty when writing along a line
Inadequate grasp. Difficulty using tools and domestic implements, locks and keys
Difficulty with dressing and grooming activities, such as putting on makeup, shaving, doing hair, fastening clothes and tying shoelaces


Poorly established hand dominance:
May use either hand for different tasks at different times
Speech and language:
May talk continuously and repeat themselves. Some people with dyspraxia have difficulty with organising the content and sequence of their language
May have unclear speech and be unable to pronounce some words
Speech may have uncontrolled pitch, volume and rate.


Eye movements:
Tracking. Difficulty in following a moving object smoothly with eyes without moving head excessively. Tendency to lose the place while reading
Poor relocating. Cannot look quickly and effectively from one object to another (for example, looking from a TV to a magazine)


Perception (interpretation of the different senses):
Poor visual perception
Over-sensitive to light
Difficulty in distinguishing sounds from background noise. Tendency to be over-sensitive to noise
Over- or under-sensitive to touch. Can result in dislike of being touched and/or aversion to over-loose or tight clothing - tactile defensiveness
Over- or under-sensitive to smell and taste, temperature and pain
Lack of awareness of body position in space and spatial relationships. Can result in bumping into and tripping over things and people, dropping and spilling things
Little sense of time, speed, distance or weight. Leading to difficulties driving, cooking
Inadequate sense of direction. Difficulty distinguishing right from left means map reading skills are poor

Learning, thought and memory:
Difficulty in planning and organising thought
Poor memory, especially short-term memory. May forget and lose things
Unfocused and erratic. Can be messy and cluttered
Poor sequencing causes problems with maths, reading and spelling and writing reports at work
Accuracy problems. Difficulty with copying sounds, writing, movements, proofreading
Difficulty in following instructions, especially more than one at a time
Difficulty with concentration. May be easily distracted
May do only one thing at a time properly, though may try to do many things at once
Slow to finish a task. May daydream and wander about aimlessly


Emotion and behaviour:
Difficulty in listening to people, especially in large groups. Can be tactless, interrupt frequently. Problems with team work
Difficulty in picking up non-verbal signals or in judging tone or pitch of voice in themselves and or others. Tendency to take things literally. May listen but not understand
Slow to adapt to new or unpredictable situations. Sometimes avoids them altogether
Impulsive. Tendency to be easily frustrated, wanting immediate gratification
Tendency to be erratic – have ‘good and bad days’
Tendency to opt out of things that are too difficult


Emotions and behaviour as a result of difficulties experienced:
Tend to get stressed, depressed and anxious easily
May have difficulty sleeping
Prone to low self-esteem, emotional outbursts, phobias, fears, obsessions, compulsions and addictive behaviour.

Many of these characteristics are not unique to people with dyspraxia and not even the most severe case will have all the above characteristics. But adults with dyspraxia will tend to have more than their fair share of co-ordination and perceptual difficulties.
from: http://www.dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/dyspraxia-information/Adults/inadults.html

okay...
geez - this adhd/add/dcd/damp "thing" just keeps getting more and more complicated!
:D
seems to me the more i learn, the more i realise i have to learn more!
;)

allow me to quote off of the website you linked to:

"Other names include Developmental Co-ordination Disorder (DCD), Perceptuo-Motor Dysfunction, and Motor Learning Difficulties. It used to be known as Minimal Brain Damage and Clumsy Child Syndrome.

The condition is thought to affect up to eight percept of the population in varying degrees. Dyspraxia sometimes runs in families. There may be an overlap with ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder), Dyslexia and Asperger's Syndrome."
:(
so dyspraxia *IS* dcd...
:confused:

If you were writing a psych eval you would separate the 2 dx's out and list them individually.

can you see why I am so confused :confused:

yeah, this is...
*lost for words*
:confused:

Don't try to absorb it all at once. It may be best to pick out one piece of the puzzle to read about first (like ADHD or DCD), and then move on when you're ready. As you read, you will find a great deal of overlap between all of these conditions. You'll probably also find that the experts don't necessarily agree on the proper definitions of these terms. But as you learn more, you will be able to pick out the issues your son has trouble with, and learn more about how he can be helped. In the long run, this will help him more than having a single neat, tidy diagnosis (though I sympathise with the desire for one! ;) ) I recommend taking notes so that you can discuss your concerns with your doctor.

Has your doctor mentioned possible treatments for the motor problems yet? With my son, we've been advised to encourage physical activities of various kinds. I do think it helps, but it won't be a quick fix. :rolleyes:

We are constantly creating and implementing various routines/strategies to try and help John

We have had a lot of help form Occupational Therapy with Johns motor problems - exercises that are now just part of his daily routine - they even went into school and gave them ideas on how to make it easier for John - the best one was getting John a special cushion to sit on its like a big woopie cushion thick plastic filled with air which he wobbels around on which helps him find his centre of gravity (all the other children in his class wanted a go it made him feel special)

We have also tried and found out that he respond well to having body massages. at first we had them done once a week but he has been teaching me how to do it at home as well, which i try and do (i must say he is really good at the massages and is making sure i'm doing it properly)some days he reacts differently to having it done so we have to play it by ear.

I have long believed the best approach in treating ADHD is to take a "shotgun" approach where you throw as many (safe & effective) treatments at the kid and basically see which ones stick( work). That is why I made up a symptom checklist for Sensory Integration Disorder and ask those questions as a routine part of an ADHD diagnostic assessment ( initial intake). While I cannot diagnose that (only an OT can), I regularly recommend OT evals as part of a total workup. ADHD and the comorbid conditions that often accompany it require a lot more than simply...." take a pill and go talk to this person."

Long ago there used to be some "stand alone" problems but those have all but completely disappeared. The world is a lot more complicated I guess.

Good luck.:)

I'm sure your patients appreciate that approach! The shuffle from specialist to specialist can be exhausting for parents.

not to mention what it does to the children...

*and* for those of us who've been diagnosed as adults...
i sometimes feel like *i* know more about this than the so-called "specialists"!
:D :( :mad:
that's why i've started to call different hospitals in my area, to tell them i'd be *very* happy to come talk to them, and tell them my story, and also/thus educate them about neuropsychiatric conditions, and what it's like to deal with them on a daily basis...
they may have read *"gazillions"* of papers on the subject, but it's not until they actually *meet* someone who struggles with this, that they really *understand*...

Thanks you all so much for your replies I have just found this from Austraila and thought i would put it on the post as it explains it a little bit

Deficits in Attention, Motor Control and Perceptual Abilities
What is DAMP?
DAMP is used as an umbrella term to cover various combinations of motor control and perceptual problems in addition to attentional difficulties. Christopher Gillberg and his team working in Sweden originally described DAMP in the 1980’s. This is now an accepted term in Scandinavia. In Australia we have found this term useful to describe children who present with similar problems.

Children who have DAMP may not have any definite neurological disorder or identifiable brain damage. It is thought that their brain networks behave differently to other children.

Key problems
Children with DAMP show the following features:

Attention problems

Being unable to sit still, unable concentrate on an activity or completing the activities they are doing. These problems are usually seen at school, home and the doctor’s office.
Coordination problems

Fine or gross motor tasks can be difficult to do. These can range from clumsiness to difficulties riding a bike, finding it hard to tie shoelaces or spilling food when eating.
Perceptual problems

Often relates to the understanding of how to draw, write and read. It can also result in children misjudging body distances and body parts in space. Perceptual problems can cause falls, collisions or accidents.
Speech and language problems

It can be difficult saying words, and often the child can stutter. They can have trouble making sense of what they hear and also have poor comprehension. Some of these difficulties have to do with the ability of the child to adjust the volume and pitch of their voice.
Difficulty appreciating the thoughts and feelings of others

Difficulty seeing things from other people’s point of view.
Children with DAMP can have any of the above-mentioned problems to a mild degree or to a severe degree. Different mixes of problems occur, eg. Mild motor problems and severe perceptual problems, or mild attentional difficulty and severe fine motor deficit.

These children have a combination of motor, perceptual and speech-language difficulties not merely problems of concentration. This is why we do not simply diagnose all these children as Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder (ADHD).

Based on Swedish studies, 3-6% of all 7 year olds has some form of DAMP. Children with DAMP come from all social classes and some have very high intelligence. There are many more boys than girls with DAMP.

Why does it happen?
Why DAMP occurs is unclear. In 10% of the cases it is without a cause; in 35% it is due to brain injury during pregnancy and childbirth; in 35% it is hereditary and in the remaining 20% it is a combination of many factors.

Is there a problem with the brain?
There is a high rate of learning and reading problems although these children are usually considered to have ‘normal intelligence’. Studies have shown some evidence of certain brain parts being more involved in this impairment. The frontal part of the brain that "keeps an eye on their own behaviour (self-monitoring) and planning of both what to do and say" is somehow not working properly in kids with DAMP.

Course and development
In Sweden these children were followed up from early childhood through adulthood. This study and other longterm studies reveal the following findings.

Infancy – activity & temperament
DAMP may have two distinct sub groups in infancy. One the high activity group and another the low or normal activity group.

The overactive group usually shows sleep problems, feeding difficulties, colicky stomach pains and a generally high level of motor activity even from the first months of life. The low activity group’s slowness is usually thought to indicate low intelligence and parents regard these children as ‘good’ infants. Some of them show repetitive behaviours (head rolling, rocking repeating sounds etc) from a very early age.

Preschool – coordination & understanding consequences
During preschool years the two groups are more difficult to tell apart. Both are hyperactive or at least inattentive. Coordination problems surface around 2-4 years but are often obscured by the high activity level and lack of appropriate fear, which is also very common. Two thirds have speech and language difficulties by this time but only in half is there severe delay.

Early school – concentration & cooperation
In early school years many more difficulties emerge for DAMP children in both behavioural and academic performance. Difficulties in concentration, interacting in an age appropriate way, participation in games/sharing and sometimes in basic reading and writing skills. All of these problems peak in the 7-10 year old period.

Adolescence – Less Clumsy but More Distractable
Adolescent children with DAMP experience persisting difficulties in concentration. Motor clumsiness becomes less evident during puberty.

What psychological problems do they get?
Depression
Aggression & conduct problems
Autistic traits.
What can we do?
There is no single treatment for DAMP. Children benefit from a variety of treatments. The important part of any management plan for a child is the physical, psychological and neuromotor examination. This information has to be clearly discussed with parents, teachers and therapists dealing with the child. Many DAMP children need special education. Some need one on one instruction for learning. Quite a few need speech therapy, physiotherapy and occupational therapy.

Almost all children with DAMP need special assistance for school work (reading, writing, maths or other areas). Specific programs need to be made available both at school and home. Some children who have DAMP benefit from the same medication used for ADHD. This group of drugs helps with hyperactivity, concentration difficulties and some learning problems. These drugs are relatively free of side effects. Stimulant medication, as it is called, works when combined with other therapies and rarely works when used alone.

Long term follow-up
In early adult life, a few who have had DAMP overcome most or all of the severe problems. Half of all DAMP cases have some persisting difficulties in one or other kind. Low self esteem is common even among those who are doing reasonably well. In the long term, motor coordination problems improve best with only a residue of motor clumsiness left. In contrast reading and writing difficulties tend to persist well into the adult years.

What makes the difference?
These children have lots of difficulties in many areas of their lives. However they make a much better adjustment if they are accepted and their schooling takes into account their special needs.



Children who have DAMP do not usually have any definite neurological disorder or identifiable brain damage. It is thought that their brain networks behave differently to other children.

a similar question!!!

my 4-yr-old son saw an occupational therapist last week because his fine motor skills were delayed. she thinks his main struggle is figuring out each step it takes to complete a fine motor task. so, when i can break the taks of buttoning into smaller steps, he can get it -- with practice, of course.

the literature she gave me was about sensory integration disfunction. i'm trying to find out as much as i can see i know how best to help him. so far, he doesn't fit neatly into one category, but then, i didn't really expect him too... :rolleyes:

a book i found somewhat helpful is called The out-of-sync child : recognizing and coping with sensory integration dysfunction
by Carol Stock Kranowitz.

thanks for all the helpful links and information everyone!

wheezie

Having trouble figuring out the steps and how to accomplish them is often referred to as a motor planning problem ... another term that is a synonym for dyspraxia! :rolleyes: Sensory integration problems are a big part of the picture too, and many of the activities recommended for kids with SI will also help with motor planning. Have you read The Out-of-Sync Child Has Fun? It has a lot of fun activities that may help. Will post more links later!

i have The Out-of-Sync Child Has Fun checked out from the library, but, haven't started paging through it yet. this is a lot of info. to take in and assimilate! thanks for your help sorting this out.

i'll be interested in looking over the OT's assessment, i am sure she had a lot more to say, but, i am *not* an auditory learner, so, most of it pretty much sounded like, "blah, blah, blah. here is something you can read to learn more. blah blah blah. work on these activites or 10 minutes/day (another handout) and come back in a month." i wonder if i could bring a note-taker to these sessions? :rolleyes:

this looks interesting, another forum - read-only archives ... http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Sensory+Integration+Disorder&number=191&DaysPrune=1000&LastLogin=

and their new forums ... http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=228

i haven't read through them yet, so, this is not an endorsement ;)

i'm so confused as you, and i need help too.

What info do you need clarification on?

I am fairly knowledgeable about sensory integration (perception) difficulties. I'm not as knowledgeable about fine & gross motor difficulties, but I know some about them. I'm a speech therapist, so I also know plenty about difficulties with language development -- difficulties producing speech (speech motor problems), difficulties understanding speech (problems with auditory processing [auditory perception]), etc

This is one of the most interesting threads I've read yet! All of the research that I've read about the cerebellum and it's role in AD/HD, sensory integration issues, dyslexia, auditory processing, coordination and balance - all lead me to believe that it (the cerebellum) is responsible for D.A.M.P. and that his surely will be the "label" or diagnosis of the future for people suffering from these symptoms collectively. People who experience only one or the other may have partial cerebellar issues. Fascinating!!!

so really, there should actually be a big umbrella heading of cerebellum/frontal lobe disorders and all the ad(h)d and sid/dcd/damp are all under the same umbrella heading.

why cant these researchers get it together?!

something ive known for a while, and figured out properly the other day... we know more about ourselves (or kids) than the 'professionals' and 'specialists' and 'researchers' etc. the books etc are good, but there needs to be some integrated source, and .... other stuff i can say but doesnt go in this thread =)

The researchers can and do get it together. It's not as simple as that. If it were, then they would have already gone there.

dyspraxia



Thank you, finally a name for something I've notice about myself, but didn't konw what to call it.

I have a herky jerky motion to my movements. When i wash the dishes, I'm always dropping or bumping them into each other. My handwriting is the worse because I have a hard time doing it. It's a major struggle for me to navigate a pen across a page. The more I try to control it, the shakier it gets. I play guitar and have been doing it for over twenty years yet it's still hard for me. I can only play stuff that I've rehe****d over and over. There's a spazzy disconnect between what I want to play and how my fingers move.

i just thought of another thing that might be related. I hate doing mundane, physical task. Pulling out the tube of toothpaste and putting the lid back on, putting the tie wrap back around the loaf of bread, opening and closing my little pill bottles. Those things drive me nuts. I'm always trying to rush thru them and the more I rush, the more I have trouble doing them. At first I thought it was just impatience with boring task, but the more I think about it, it might be because they are actually physically challlenging.

Al

Thomas Brown in his book Attention Deficit Disorder: The Unfocused Mind in Children and Adults (p. 240) writes, "Bruce Pennington (2002) has highlighted the need to reconsider existing boundaries for conceptualizing psychiatric disorders. He suggested a new framework to integrate emerging neuroscientific understandings of psychiatric disorders, one that includes three clusters of syndromes: disorders of motivation, disorders of action regulation, and disorders of language and cognitive development."

Hopefully one of these days as we better understand the underlying neurology and genetic pathways, some of the confusing overlap between these disorders with such similar and overlapping features will be more accurately conceptualized and appropriately categorized. Currently there sure are a lot of things that sound like they're describing very similar conditions. More accurate categorization will hopefully lead to more effective treatments.

Scattered

Your child should be evaluated by an occupational therapist. Our daughter has been, and I am waiting for the report. My pediatrician (bless this man!) has the report, plus her old therapist notes, and is waiting for thorough testing by a service that tests for asperger's, among other things, for a final diagnosis and treatment plan.

Dyspraxia is new to me, will be researching it, many thanks for providing the definitions... I definitely have it. Felt like such a freak and loser as a kid, hated phys. ed. for obvious reasons, but also because my dad and family were such athletes and sports fans. Anyway, at least I know why.

Yup, there's something soothing about finding that those "weird" feeling that I have is shared by others and is a real thing.

Could you imagine how someone with depression felt 50 years ago before it became "popular"?

al

Scattered,

That was very well said. Thank you.:)

Aw shucks, McT!

ty:)