View Full Version : Nonverbal Learning Disorder


Princess Moon
05-25-10, 09:21 PM
Nonverbal Learning Disorder is a disability where you have deficits in fine motor skills, visual-spatial skills, visual-spatial organizational skills, pragmatic language, fine motor coordination, visual memory and other things. It makes you have bad handwriting, you get lost, have difficulty learning to drive, poor sense of direction, difficulty remembering faces, bad drawing,. bad at art, executive dysfunction, are terrible at math, bad at writing structure and have comorbid anxiety. I was not diagnosed with NLD, but I recognize a lot of the symptoms in myself and thin I was missed. Sometimes I think I was too normal to have NLD, other times it fits really well. I don't know whether or not I have it, but I would like a topic to talk about Nonverbal Learning Disorder and how it relates to others. It sounds a lot like Dyspraxia, ADD and Sensory Processing Disorder. Nonverbal Learning Disorder is so unknown and finding out about it explains a lot of things but I don't know whether or not I have it, I have some things but not others. Sometimes I seem to normal for it, I had normal interests and hobbies and relationships. I have a lot of signs of NLD, though. How do you really know since it's so similar to ADD? I feel like my type of disorder doesn't really fit one category, because I have some of this, some of that, a lot of symptoms of different disorders, but not all of it and not just one main disorder but so many little parts of different ones (anxiety disorders, anorexia, OCD, learning disabilities). It's hard to tell what is what. Anyway, offer opinions on Nonverbal Learning Disorder.

Marspider
06-29-10, 09:42 AM
Oh , I wrote so much! And it erased everything as my token had expired, aaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

I believe this is dyspraxia really. 60-70% of dyspraxias tend to have ADHD as well so it's no surprise that many of those here have dyspraxic type symptoms.
The term nonverbal learning disorder I really only see in the US and US-influenced psychiatry.

I'm starting to believe some programs that claim to help ADHD with special exercises really are improving the co morbid dyspraxia as those two conditions will combine with each other. So there will be an indirect improvement of the ADHD because it does seem to help people.
Those who will show the most improvement on these exercises will be those with dyspraxia and milder ADHD.


I've only recently realised I have dyspraxia in the past 3 years and it wouldn't have been so much of a problem if it wasn't for me deciding to learn Architecture.
Oh the forums have seen quite a few of my posts wailing about my drawing.

Difficulty with writing and drawing is often a symptom of dyspraxia.
And I've discovered that a there's often a preference for peripheral vision rather than central vision in dyspraxia which has been my case for years. Central vision often hurts or be uncomfortable and I often tilt my head sideways if I'm concentrating. I can see 20/20 no problem. I wish people would look beyond having 20/20 eyesight.

In many drawing books and repeated by drawing teachers and anyone who wants to teach me , ad nauseam- "To learn to draw, you must learn to see."

That's actually really really difficult. How do I do that? I know all about foreshortening bla bla but my brain seems to have difficulty breaking down the image into lines so I can draw it. I get too distracted by my peripheral vision when I look at things centrally. I've often felt I need blinders so I don't get so distracted but it's still uncomfortable to look at things centrally.
And the other phrase: Practice!" When I ask for help, they just tell I'm not practicing enough. Urgh. Practice doesn't help, it gives me more of a headache which is not motivating for me anyway and we all know about procrastination. Practice is good, but you have to practice correctly.
So you see how these very vague statements on how to draw are not helpful.

I've noticed that if I copy from sketches, it's much better for me. So I'm looking into turning photos to sketches in Photoshop and drawing those instead. Maybe eventually I would be able to draw still lifes comfortably and without so much agony.

Difficulty learning to ride is also a dyspraxia symptom.

I learnt to ride on my own as my parents don't know how to ride and didn't really know they had to use training wheels. We also lived on an isolated farm at that time so I didn't have anyone to compare with, I didn't know the established forms and what to do. The people who lived there previously left their kid's bike and I was determined to learn to ride it. And eventually did.

I see that many people ride differently from me when starting off, I scoot the entire bike and then put my feet on the pedals which is how I learnt, it's a bit wobbly to do this though.
I can't turn my head and look behind me in traffic. I have to stop to do that. It's as if some of my dyspraxia symptoms are magnified when I'm on a bike.

There's also overflow movement in dyspraxia where you make one movement and the body makes another movement as well, which comes out when I look behind on my bike, I can't keep my balance and my legs go different places and I wobble mightily and get a panic attack. I can barely walk and glance behind at the same time.

Turbochica
06-29-10, 12:07 PM
for what it is worth I found this list of comparisons between ADD and NLD
and thought I would post this here to see if this helps you any.
It is written with a focus on children's issues too keep that in mind as you read.


ADD
often fidgets and squirms
NLD
constantly bumping into objects

ADD
difficulty remaining seated/still
NLD
difficulty maintaining balance in seat

ADD
easily distracted
NLD
faulty spatial perceptions

ADD
difficulty waiting turns/pushes
NLD
difficulty with spatial relations/bumps

ADD
often blurts out answers
NLD
does not censor speech

ADD
difficulty following through
NLD
slow arduous performance of tasks

ADD
does not consider consequences
NLD
does not anticipate consequences

ADD
difficulty sustaining attention
NLD
attentiont deficits to visual /tactile

ADD
difficulty playing quietly
NLD
talks through all activities

ADD
often talks excessively
NLD
very verbal (unless withdrawn)

ADD
often interupts or intrudes
NLD
deficits in social judgement

ADD
does not seem to listen
NLD
misreads nonverbal communication

ADD
loses things necessary for tasks
NLD
visual-spatial-organizational deficits

ADD
engages in dangerous activities
NLD
at risk for personal injury

ADD
shifts from one activity to another
NLD
extraordinary attention to detail (hyperfocus)

ADD
manipulates situations
NLD
cannot comprehend personal manipulation
or deception

ADD
oppositional/defiant behavior
NLD
inclined toward depression or anxiety

ADD
seeks out novelty/surprise/newness
NLD
avoids any kind of novelty

Princess Moon
07-06-10, 01:35 AM
The thing about that list is it doesn't talk about inattentive ADD and focuses on the hyperactive type. Inattentive ADD and NLD seem almost identical.

SamCurt
07-14-10, 10:29 PM
...there is, of course, even much more talk about how NLD is like Asperger's; this professional article I just read downright claimed that "[NLD] [m]ay meet criteria for Asperger's disorder, which is a behavioral/psychiatric diagnosis (nonverbal learnng disorder is a cognitive diagnosis and can characterize features of different underlying conditions)"

Marspider
07-14-10, 11:56 PM
Non-verbal learning disorder seems so vague really. What is it? Is it the same as dyspraxia?

Imnapl
07-15-10, 12:39 AM
The thing about that list is it doesn't talk about inattentive ADD and focuses on the hyperactive type. Inattentive ADD and NLD seem almost identical.People with combined ADHD also struggle with being inattentive.

SamCurt
07-15-10, 12:41 AM
NLD is pretty vague-- however it's not dyspraxia, but something more related to higher functions.

Imnapl
07-15-10, 12:48 AM
I've worked with kids with NLD. It's definitely not like ADHD, although we enjoyed each others company.

Princess Moon
07-15-10, 09:01 PM
I have a lot of empathy, love people and my hobbies and interests are normal and mainstream. I like soap operas, teen dramas, romance series and going out. I like celebrity gossip and all sorts of neurotypical things. I have a lot of ADD traits and NLD traits, but a lot of my personality is opposite of NLD. I'm very imaginative, creative, learn from experience, like to do things, love teen dramas, soap operas, romance shows and have typical interests, have a sense of humor, I like going out, I know what to say in situations and do not have the same social or gross motor defecits. I work out every day. I have deficits in fine motor skills and visual-spatial skills and visual processing as well as attention, organization and executive functioning. I was able to form relationships appropriate to my age level, do not have gross motor defecits, have a great imagination, I have a lot of ADD traits, some NLD traits. NLD is not AS at all, saying that is like saying ADD and AS are the same because they share some similar traits. The people with AS I know are totally different, they appear much more selfish and rude and seem to look at the world like from a different perspective and not really enjoy things and look at things the way most people do. The person with AS I knew was very self-centered and had abusive, controlling behavior and just seemed very dark and different and didn't seem to appreciate or understand things and could be really rude, but that was just one person. I connect much more with others with ADD. ADD, NLD and AS are all different but have similarities. I have difficulty processing visual information accurate. I have poor fine motor skills. I have executive functioning, organization and attention deficits.

I have a mix of ADD and NLD, but my personality is more toward the ADD side, I'm more empathetic and creative than a lot of NLD people are described in Rourke's writings. I know what to say and what not to say a lot. I have something in between. I don't fit all the criteria, but have some. I was not smart and my IQ was much lower than the typical NLD person. Who knows. My NLD symptoms were kind of mild so they weren't diagnosed, I had definite issues in visual-spatial perception, visual memory and fine motor skills, but did not have a lot of the more severe issues people with NLD have so I was just diagnosed ADD. I did not really have sensory issues much.

Princess Moon
07-15-10, 11:18 PM
I am also very sensitive to other's emotions and empathetic and I always say the right things because I understand other's emotions well. I also miss details and don't notice details, so a lot of the traits don't fit with NLD. The fine motor skills and visual-spatial skill deficits do.

Werl
07-17-10, 12:31 AM
I don't have an official diagnosis, but chances are I have NLD. For many years I've been told that I have dyslexia, some of the symptoms are similar. Out of the symptoms in the op, I only don't have one. I'm really good at math.

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Princess Moon
07-26-10, 10:50 PM
I went to a neuropsych. NLD is regarded as a visual-spatial processing disorder. The neuropsych said everyone with NLD has ADD, but not everyone with ADD has NLD.

Princess Moon
09-11-10, 02:47 PM
When I was young, I was diagnosed with a visual perceptual disorder and other stuff. I went to a neuropsych, did all the testing and now I can officially say I have NLD. ADD is my primary diagnosis, the neuropsych said my ADD is what affects me the most and left ADD as my primary diagnosis, but I also have a visual processing disorder, NLD or nonverbal learning disability. It's where you have deficits in visual processing, visual-spatial skills, visual memory, visual perception, fine motor skills, visual motor integration, visual motor coordination. You process visual information inaccurately and have difficulty picturing things in your head, a poor visual memory. I get lost a lot, am bad at math, have trouble telling left from right, trouble driving, bad handwriting, bad at arts and crafts, I drop things, spill things, NLD is a visual processing disorder. I have ADD and a visual-processing disorder NLD. I originally had diagnosed myself with NLD and no one believed me even though I knew I had it. Now I have an official diagnosis, so there. As a younger kid I did have a visual perceptual disorder, so it was called something else. NLD is where you have difficulty keeping a picture in your mind an process visual information inaccuaretely, so you have trouble finding objects in cluttered rooms and a lot of trouble with visual-spatial organization. Puzzles are very difficult. Anything visual or mechanical is very difficult for NLD or Nonverbal Learning Disorder or visual processing disorder or visual perceptual disorder, whatever you want to call it.

Crazygirl79
09-12-12, 12:49 AM
Just recently discovered that I have this and I'm looking at getting assessed..

Selena

pooka
09-12-12, 01:04 AM
My younger brother has NLD. He is very different from me, mostly in regards to social stuff (I'm fairly outgoing and know what I'm doing in social situations, he is kind of oblivious).

Each of our symptoms totally annoys the crap out of the other person, so it's really hard for us to get along. He never shuts up, and since I'm super impatient and have a limited attention span and a tendency to drift off, that really frustrates me. I'm impulsive, spontaneous, and flexible, he freaks out when a plan gets changed or a promise is broken. He's extremely sensitive, and my habit of blurting things have caused many fights. He says a lot of hurtful things to me, because while he is very sensitive to any kind of negative comment about him, he is completely clueless as to what might hurt others.

It was my parent's struggle to find a diagnosis for my brother that led to their suspicion that I had ADHD, though I was diagnosed much later because my academic issues were less obvious than his and more attributed to "laziness."