View Full Version : Socioeconomic Link to ADHD


APSJ
06-03-10, 07:34 PM
Interesting article:
In a study of more than a million children, Swedish researchers found a strong association between attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and socioeconomic status.

Scientists discovered limited maternal education, single-parent families and welfare benefits were all associated with children receiving medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.


Swedish experts teamed up to carry out what they believe is the first study of risk factors for ADHD in a national cohort of school children, based on 1.16 million children on the country’s Prescribed Drug Register.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/06/02/socioeconomic-link-to-adhd/14238.html

It seems to largely ignore the chicken and the egg question, in my opinion...does low socioeconomic status predispose one to ADHD, or do people from families with genetic predispositions to ADHD, meaning families which likely have one or more members with ADHD, tend to have lower socioeconomic statuses?

meridian
06-03-10, 08:58 PM
Interesting article:
http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/06/02/socioeconomic-link-to-adhd/14238.html

It seems to largely ignore the chicken and the egg question, in my opinion...does low socioeconomic status predispose one to ADHD, or do people from families with genetic predispositions to ADHD, meaning families which likely have one or more members with ADHD, tend to have lower socioeconomic statuses?

Exactly.

While there are exceptions, it is probable that inherited AD/HD through family lines may have led to lower socio-economic status since there have been studies (I believe) which chow that AD/HD people *on average* earn something like 1 million dollars less over a lifetime than NTs of similar background and education.

qinkin
06-04-10, 06:32 PM
Nice thread.

I believe that socioeconomic standing is not relevant to the worth of a human being, let alone a living being,along w/its services and potential for work in general.

That's what slave trade does..


the chicken and the egg question, in my opinion...does low socioeconomic status predispose one to ADHD, or do people from families with genetic predispositions to ADHD, meaning families which likely have one or more members with ADHD, tend to have lower socioeconomic statuses?Brilliant question, it's such a subjective question.. ADHD symptoms can be caused by thousands of things.

That's my open-ended response.

Retromancer
06-04-10, 07:23 PM
Wow a thread on the forum that actually has the word 'socio-economic' in the title! :D

I think the important thing to keep in mind is how a low status and AD(H)D are mutually reinforcing -- as I know all too well. You do not have access to the resources that would mitigate the worst aspects of the disorder, turning a 'difference' into a 'disaster'.

Let's talk about my bete noire --I may be low status but I can use those fancy words as well as anyone... ;) -- Sir Richard Branson, AD(H)D's shining example:

Branson was born at Stonefield Nursing Home in Blackheath, South London, the son of barrister Edward James Branson and Eve Branson (née Huntley Flindt). His grandfather the Right Honourable Sir George Arthur Harwin Branson, was a judge of the High Court of Justice and a Privy Councillor. Branson was educated at Scaitcliffe School (now Bishopsgate School) until the age of thirteen. He then attended Stowe School until he was sixteen.

Wikipedia | Richard Branson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Branson)

Not exactly a rags to riches tale, eh? If you haven't guessed Scaitcliffe and Stowe schools are elite private schools -- what the British confusingly insist on calling 'public' schools. I have no doubt that if little Dickie Branson needed extra tutoring, little Dickie got it.

APSJ
06-09-10, 07:59 PM
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SB_UK
06-10-10, 05:53 AM
Interesting article:
http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/06/02/socioeconomic-link-to-adhd/14238.html

It seems to largely ignore the chicken and the egg question, in my opinion...does low socioeconomic status predispose one to ADHD, or do people from families with genetic predispositions to ADHD, meaning families which likely have one or more members with ADHD, tend to have lower socioeconomic statuses?

Does low socioeconomic status -> lead to -> ADHD ?
Does ADHD -> lead to -> low socioeconomic status ?

So - to answer these questions we'd need:

A mechanism explaining ADHD

~*~

There's a seeming inevitability to ADHD
- a large number of actions which appear to have ADHD in reaction.

ADHD bears the hallmark of the mind/body's own counter-reaction to repression/suppression.

~*~

Place an individual in a low socioeconomic class and give that individual access to some information -
- perhaps a television which features the latest crop of rich Western World teenagers, living rich Western World teenage lives ... ...

... ... and the poor individual's mind will be set into a spin, attempting to work out why he's required to fight for survival -
whilst others, from richer countries, appear to want for nothing.

The poor individual is being given the incentive to understand the divergence between his own and others' living standards.

The incentive comes from his own Institutional repression/suppression.

The individual is being given the incentive to build his own mind
- to understand for himself why he's unfortunate enough to have to live such a low quality of life -
whilst others appear (so it seems when he watches television)
- whilst others appear to have so much.

The motivation which he feels to understand results in a pressure for him to explain.
The pressure to explain his own poor situation results in a motivation for him to build his own mind.

The (ADD) mind is a post-evolutionary development arising post linear (first mind) of modern man.

The linear mind ceding authority to the non-linear mind.

The ADD mind is more deeply (intimately) associated/connected than the nonADD mind
the nonADD mind
- which bears the hallmark of dangerous parochiality -
- insular, divisive

- each time one sees an -ISM in evidence -
we're bearing witness to the logical flaw in the nonADD mind.

The incapacity to think holistically -
- an incapacity to think holistically because of partitions within the logical structure of the nonADD (child-like, exclusively selfish, immature, still developing) mind.

And so ... ... as a reaction to repression (whether physical or mental)
- ADD (the next stage in development of the mind) as a host survival mechanism
- the mind as a particularly effective tool promoting host survival

- the continued development of the CNS to generate a structure which through the eyes of mind confers what we call ADD
- as a survival mechanism.

The most effective survival mechanism which one might imagine would be a mechanism which FORCES the individual to behave rationally.

Stabile describes the transition to ADD as the transition to 'enforced moral consistency'; it's important to note that the term 'enforced' is well chosen; we have no choice in the matter.
Morality beckons - though for not reason other than it representing the end-point in a process which began ~30,000 years ago with the spaciation of modern man.

Modern man - first mind - linear mind; that's how it begins.

Morality (the non linear, holistic mind) is how it ends ... ... and then begins once again ... ...
though
better
this
time.

An end to corruption in man, corruption in mind - an end to irrational behaviour.

What is the consequence of this continued development of mind ?

The individual gains the eyes to explain the nature of his repression/suppression.
Gains the eyes to see, immediately prior to being able to formulate the words to explain - immediately prior (one would hope) - to setting in place replacement systems for alleviating stressor.

~*~

Back to the question:

[1] Does low socioeconomic status -> lead to -> ADHD ?
[2] Does ADHD -> lead to -> low socioeconomic status ?[1] Yes - as described above.
ADHD as a host survival mechanism (development of mind) to combat repression/suppression.
Life wants to Live.

[2] Yes.
An understanding of the nature of how money/law acts to repress/suppress people, leads to a mindset which can not strive to earn money.
Money is the problem.
Under-the-hood of the better (ADD) mind, the motivation to earn money is lost (no sense of reward is felt when striving towards personal (exclusive selfish) economic gain)
- leading inexorably to lower socioeconomic status for the ADDer.
After spending all of this time to understand why poverty ? one cannot simply become a part of the problem; one's mind has changed to realise that a fundamentally flawed global economic system should be dismantled - of course not supported in place.

So ... ... Solution

Guarantee an insulated house, sufficient money to purchase fruit/vegetables and access to the Internet as a birthright (globally).

Socioeconomic status will cease to have meaning if people are guaranteed that the physiological, psychological and higher needs which define man, are met.

Will (though) this mean an end to ADD ?
No
- ADD will continue its startling increase in prevalence -
though the disorder which is separate (though which courts ADD) in a predominantly nonADD society
- will dissolve.

~*~

Summarising

[1] The inevitability (see qinkin's comments) of ADHD (the nonlinear mind) is unsurprising if we see it as an evolutionary character (development post- the evolutionary character of the linear mind).

[2] Evolutionary characters are arrived at - no matter which route one takes when one sets off from home, one will arrive at the appointed destination.
Who baulks at the existence of the very same profile of electromagnetic spectral components and periodic element presence (as we have here) - in the furthest reaches of space ? Nobody.

[3] Host survival as the underlying impetus forcing development of mind.

[4] Socio Economic repression as a particularly important motivator
- at least to man at this point in our evolutionary trajectory.

[5] However - remove socioeconomic repression and we'll see that the mind -
- when it reaches its own glass ceiling
will be accompanied by a similar transition
- the transition to ADHD.
The nutty Professor whose life of scrutinizing leads his own mind into ADHD.

[6] The difference between [4] and [5] is simply pain.
There is no pain associated with [5] and plenty associated with [4]
- however one might argue that there is some pain involved in [5] since the enquiring mind's belief that it is invincible
- that it can find an answer to any question which may be posed
- is taught the error of its ways.

In actual fact, a scientific, rational comprehension of our limitation, shortly thereafter, becomes a sense of relief (following on from the pain of the human mind being put in its rightful place); it's rather nice to know that continued evolutionary progression is guaranteed and that unimaginably better lies in store; fuels the imagination, it does.

SB_UK
06-10-10, 05:53 AM
[error - double post]

SB_UK
06-10-10, 11:09 AM
... ... The spaciation of modern man.

~ADD~

..smilie

Dizfriz
06-10-10, 11:42 AM
Interesting article:
http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/06/02/socioeconomic-link-to-adhd/14238.html

It seems to largely ignore the chicken and the egg question, in my opinion...does low socioeconomic status predispose one to ADHD, or do people from families with genetic predispositions to ADHD, meaning families which likely have one or more members with ADHD, tend to have lower socioeconomic statuses?

This phenomenon has been noted a number of times in the past but with no clear resolution due to the chicken/egg factor.

Another issue could be that less severe children in a higher economic status might get more help and individual attention and escape having a diagnosis while children in a lower status may get more pressure from the schools and the parents have no idea how to help their child resulting in a higher level of diagnosis.

Another issue is the level of stigma connected with the diagnosis of ADHD especially with those of higher economic status.

I have noticed myself that more of the lower economic status children seem to be diagnosed as ADHD but this could be a selection bias.

Good article, quite fascinating. Thanks for posting it.

Dizfriz

roseblood
06-11-10, 03:51 PM
Also, some of the perinatal factors associated with AD/HD are associated with low socio-economic status as well (smoking and drinking when pregnant, type II diabetes in the mother, maternal stress in the last months, low birth weight etc.).

However, most of these present their own chicken/egg problem too. The pre-natal smoking link to AD/HD is thought to be directly causal to some degree, and the alcohol one probably is the same seeing as fetal alcohol syndrome symptoms include AD/HD by another name, so it seems logical that less of the same poison would alter brain development in the same way but to a lesser extent.

EshkaronsEngine
06-11-10, 05:16 PM
I smoke. I drink. I luv and I'm filled with passion. I only make 20 grand. Sorry girls.

oblivio
06-11-10, 05:40 PM
Certainly socioeconomic status is correlated to the incidence of ADHD but I don't think that this really tells us much about the mechanisms by which one may develop or not develop ADHD. Probably the factors that are related directly to whatever mechanisms directly cause ADHD are themselves correlated with socioeconomic status.

Of the research I've seen, there is a genetic component that gives an individual the prediposition to develop ADHD tendencies, and then an array of other factors that may affect the genetically predisposed person, resulting in ADHD. The factors are not that well defined but are typically some stressful episode like a stressful birth, divorce in the household growing up, alcoholic/abusive/mentally ill parents, etc.

So certainly, socioeconomic status must be correlated with the stressful factors. The availability and quality of prenatal care and medical care during birth must be different for groups with different socioeconomic status. I don't have any direct knowledge, but I expect that alcoholism, child abuse, mental illness are most likely correlated with socioeconomic status as well, although I don't have any direct facts at my fingertips (i.e. I could be easily contradicted by real data without any resistance from me). And the perinatal factors correlated with socioecomics mentioned by APSJ operate as well.

The genetic component is something that I think poses a more interesting question. I've always subscribed to the farmers vs hunters theory that briefly stated says that ADHD minds are supremely adapted for hunting, exploring, etc., and that more conventional brains (at least by current definition) are suited for long-term tasks like farming. So the ADHD mind is just a bit of variation in the population that is a relic from a long time ago, and it is only a disorder in terms of our culture (I'll speak of US culture since that's about the only one I feel qualified to speak for). Most careers left in the US except for maybe the military and politics involved sitting quietly and patiently working away at long-term tasks that are perfectly suited for farmers.

But at least in the US, I don't think it was always this way. I would suspect that the explorers and pioneers were pretty darn impulsive and restless to leave a settled city for some unknown destination. Did these people, who probably had ADHD brains, end up with high socioeconomic status in the settlements they founded? Were they able to hold on to their socioeconomic status? If the children of the settlers inherited the ADHD predisposition, did their parents improved socioeconomic status reduce the stressful environmental factors so that they didn't develop ADHD? If this were so, and assuming that the genetic component of ADHD is a dominant trait (so that only one parent need have it for it to function in the children) that could mean that there is a subpopulation of people with high socioeconomic status walking around with the genetic predisposition to develop ADHD, but dodged a bullet because mommy and daddy were rich enough to get good prenatal care and didn't do any drinkin', druggin', or cursin' around the youngin's.

I hope someday that someone does identify the gene/genes associated with the predisposition to develoop ADHD, and that a study measuring the incidence of this gene group is performed. My prediction (you heard it here first) is that the genetic disposition for ADHD would still be correlated with socioeconomic status, but not as strongly as the correlation between people who actually developed ADHD and socioeconomic status. Further, I predict there would be a MUCH higher incidence of the genetic predisposition for ADHD then the incidence of people that actually have diagnosed ADHD.

Looking at it the other way, is there a causal connection between ADHD and lower socieoeconomic status? Certainly there are a lot of potential mechanisms here, although I'm sure the data to try and assess any of this is scarce at best. I strongly suspect that most people on the forum would consider themselves underemployed to at least some degree. Many of the charming symptoms of ADHD are at odds with most job descriptions. Further, low self-esteem seems to be another hallmark of a long-term ADHDer, throwing up more barriers to getting educated, hired, and advancing. All of these factors, taken together, would seem to indicate the ADHD throws up barriers to earning as much as you are capable of, which would shift everyone in this group down socioeconomically by some amount relative to the group without ADHD (well, duh?).

Probably nothing too profound in that conclusion but it gets more interesting if you try and figure out if there is a critical period during which you are most vulnerable to screwing the pooch, socioeconomically speaking. I strongly suspect (no data here) that it is childhood, although specifically where would be good to know. It seems like if you can make it though high school without too much impairment due to some sort of treatment (behavioral/pharmaceutical/other) , then you have a shot at making it socioeconomically.

I'm thinking the high school years are where the rubber really hits the road, things go on your permanent record and all, but is your high school career significantly influenced by what happened before? Are the skills needed to get through high school acquired earlier?

This isn't necessarily just idle speculation. If we had this information, we might have a better idea of where to direct the limited resources devoted to ADHD to have the biggest impact on the most people.

Great thread, APSJ!

SB_UK
06-12-10, 03:19 AM
Also, some of the perinatal factors associated with AD/HD are associated with low socio-economic status as well (smoking and drinking when pregnant, type II diabetes in the mother, maternal stress in the last months, low birth weight etc.).

ADHD bears the hallmark of the mind/body's own counter-reaction to repression/suppression.

Repression (mind)
Suppression (body)

Life wants to live - put up impediments to mind:body psychological : physiological functionality and the mind:body will attempt 'to overcome'.

overcome
to overcome ourselves
overman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cbermensch)

to overcome ourselves
'what man is to ape, so superman will be to man'

We shall overcome,
We shall overcome,
We shall overcome, some day.

We’ll walk hand in hand,
We’ll walk hand in hand,
We’ll walk hand in hand, some day.
-> equality

We shall live in peace,
We shall live in peace,
We shall live in peace, some day.
-> peace

We shall all be free,
We shall all be free,
We shall all be free, some day.
-> liberty

We are not afraid,
We are not afraid,
We are not afraid, TODAY
-> freedom from tyranny of mind and bodyovercome what ?
man
to overcome ourselves
leading to
overman
- a species of overmen (post-modern man)
with the new species (society) characterized by


equality
peace
liberty
freedom from tyranny of body and mind

~*~

ADD is simply the 'mind' getting over itself.
to overcome ourselves

If we examine the mental health spectrum - ADD (combined-type) lies in the centre -
- and differs from the conditions around it (on the spectrum)
- in that its insight offers the prospect of improved social/environmental (see above) context
- relative to previously.


equality
peace
liberty
freedom from tyranny of body and mind

A bettery society.

A fully automated, fully open, global eco currency for corporations,
A fully automated, fully open global single wage to all people,
A small human readable global body of law (with an end to professional lawyers)
and
dissolution of local national political systems to give way to a global government as halfway house in the transition to developing A fully open fully distributed system of global governance which of course puts an end to the $elf-serving lawyer/bureaucrats which seek power for all of the wrong reasons.

Complete global political, economic and legal union.

Power corrupts; the weakness of die untermenschen.

SB_UK
06-12-10, 03:42 AM
Certainly socioeconomic status is correlated to the incidence of ADHD but I don't think that this really tells us much about the mechanisms by which one may develop or not develop ADHD.

Exactly.

[1] ADHD bears the hallmark of the mind/body's own counter-reaction to repression/suppression.
[2] Evolution selection of the mind (through our eyes) is unsurprising - the mind offers an unprecedented increase in (if used properly)
- our fitness - our survival.
[3] If used improperly - the mind also offers the prospect of a speedier (species level) demise.
[4] Evolution has no particular interest in life (ours and any other species which we take down with us) being annhilated.
[5] Which mechanism might evolution introduce to ensure that we (as a species) use the mind for 'good' as opposed to 'evil'.
- simple - force rationality.
[6] Yes - but what is the actual mechanism?
Increase the level of interconnectivity within the human mind, such that the mind, in effect polices itself.
[7] Build a mind and then force increased intra- inter- connectivity and the mind 'polices' itself - the mind is not able to sanction 'illogical' behaviours.
[8] The mind defines behaviour.
[9] And so the mechanism (for ADD) is ... ... ?
... is simply a small increase in the level of interconnectivity within the human mind which gives rise to the incapacity to turn away from logical (moral) concerns ... ... where logicality (morality) arises as the human mind gains understanding (not just knowledge per se).

Knowledge - having absolute knowledge of the 'Klingon, Vulcan and Romulan' languages does not guarantee morality -
morality comes with holistic real-world (scientific) understanding.

~*~

So ... ...

Simply

[1] The mechanism underlying ADD - a small increase in the level of interconnectivity within the human mind.
[2] The 'driver' which 'forces' this change - the mind:body 's reaction to repression:suppression -
- where repression is also felt when the mind finds itself wanting (inadequately incomplete).
[3] Multiple 'effectors' giving rise to ADHD - the hallmark of a 'scripted' (self-assembly) evolutionary progression - we're meant to evolve; there is only evolution.
[4] The benefits (through our own eyes) to this evolutionary progression
- a better form of society.
A form of society which can (unlike the one we're living in currently)
- which can work.


equality
liberty
fraternity

&


freedom from tyranny of body and mind

The philosophical basis to the French and American Wars of Independence.