View Full Version : Question for those adept with supplement/Vyvanse interactions


TheDIMD
06-09-10, 04:20 PM
Hi. This is the first time I've posted in here, but I really need some help and I was hoping someone here would be able to lend me a hand.

I currently take 50mg of Vyvanse every day, but with my vitamin regiment taken in addition, I've been getting some tingling sensation in my hands, a little bit of chest tightening... and a very slight light-headedness. When I discontinued all of these supplements, the symptoms went away... but I found the supplements to be very beneficial and would like to know which ones may be causing the interaction/issue. I take the following:

N-Acetyl-Carnitine: 500mg
Vitamin D - 1000mg IU
CoQ10: 100mg
Calcium-Magnesium Citramate: 80mg each
Milk Thistle
GABA
Theanine
High Potency B-Vitamin
Acidophilus
Digestive Enzymes (Amylase, Lipase, etc.)
Licorice Root/Glutamine/Aloe Leaf Digestion support mixture
N-Acetyl Cysteine

Any ideas on any of these that could be causing me issue? I did take the calcium and magensium at night, as I know that can cause issues if taken in the morning... but I'm at a loss for what else could be causing the issue.

Thanks in advance for any help! :D

CalmTheChaos
06-09-10, 06:22 PM
I find that Magnesium has a detrimental affect on the effectiveness of my meds. In fact, Magnesium and GABA both act very much like benzodiazepines (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18799816), which will inhibit the desired excitatory responses of your stimulant meds.

Many report that CoQ10 causes them to have brain fog to some degree. It does exist in 1 or 2 of my supplements, but it's in low enough doses that I don't really notice it. 100mg is a hefty dosage of CoQ10.

Of course, the timing of your meds and supplements plays a big role too. Can you please provide some more detailed information about what you take and when? Also, are you taking all these individually, or are they collected together in different products (and if so, which products, specifically?)?

TheDIMD
06-09-10, 06:49 PM
In the morning I've been taking the GABA/Theanine mix (Brand name: Zen), Arginine (forgot to mention that one), Acidophilus, the digestive enzymes, and the Licorice Root/Glutamine/Aloe Leaf Digestion support mixture I mentioned below. Prior to my quitting all the supplements all together, I also took CoQ10, Omega 3 fatty Acids, B-Vitamin, and Vitamin D in the morning.

In the evening, I took the Cal/Mag mixture, Milk Thistle, N-Acetyl Carnitine, N-Acetyl Cysteine, and more of the digestion support. These are all individual vitamins unless otherwise stated and are all pharmaceutical grade vitamins I get from my naturopahic doctor... which probably helps to explain the high amounts of the vitamins :-).

Thank you so much for your help!!! :D

CalmTheChaos
06-09-10, 07:14 PM
You definitely want to keep up with the EFAs (Omega 3-6-9). These are tremendously helpful and the biggest bang for the buck for ADHD folks. Take these in the morning with a meal.

The GABA/Theanine in the morning would be counter-productive. If you continue to take this, do it 20-30 minutes before bedtime.

I would definitely quit taking the Cal/Mag combo and the CoQ10 altogether.

You can take the Acetyl L-Carnitine throughout the day. I take it 3 times daily with meals, and I find it really helps.

Arginine is fine, but you want to make sure you take this either at night before bed, or an hour before you go to the gym.

I don't see a multi-vitamin there, but you want to take these (and anything with C) late in the day or before bed.

I actually find that B complexes can inhibit my meds if taken during the day, so I take those at night too.

When in doubt about a supplement, it's best to take it at the end of your day to minimize the impact on your meds.

TheDIMD
06-09-10, 09:53 PM
CoQ10 keeps coming up as something that reduces brain fog and helps remedy heart palpitations and all sorts of fun things... Yet I see a few people saying exactly what you're saying here too. I suppose it's another good supplement that's bad if you're taking amphetamines.

I do have a question for you though. In regard to the GABA/Theanine combo, why would this be counter-productive? I neglected to mention that I have an anxiety-disorder as well. I used to be prescribed Buspar in addition to my amphetamines, but I hated how foggy they made me feel, so I stopped taking them. I was taking Wellbutrin for a while too, but that's beside the point here.

One last question if it's okay, why would B-vitamins counteract the medicine or inhibit the medicine from working properly? I've always been told they were good to take with amphetamines? :confused:

Thank you very much for all of your help again! You've been incredibly informative and I appreciate it a ton! :)

CalmTheChaos
06-09-10, 09:57 PM
Check out this link I posted above...
Magnesium and GABA both act very much like benzodiazepines (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18799816) (Benzodiazepines are a family of drugs that include Valium, Klonopin, Xanax, etc)

GABA works against excitatory responses, and it is a natural tranquilizer. That's why it's counter-productive. Most people take it to help them sleep.

With regard to the B Vitamins, I'm not exactly sure. All I know is that when I take a B complex in the morning, my meds are worthless for the whole day.

TheDIMD
06-09-10, 10:00 PM
Thank you very much for all of your help!

CalmTheChaos
06-09-10, 10:14 PM
Any time!

novaprospekt
06-10-10, 06:36 PM
Hi. This is the first time I've posted in here, but I really need some help and I was hoping someone here would be able to lend me a hand.

I currently take 50mg of Vyvanse every day, but with my vitamin regiment taken in addition, I've been getting some tingling sensation in my hands, a little bit of chest tightening... and a very slight light-headedness. When I discontinued all of these supplements, the symptoms went away... but I found the supplements to be very beneficial and would like to know which ones may be causing the interaction/issue. I take the following:

N-Acetyl-Carnitine: 500mg
Vitamin D - 1000mg IU
CoQ10: 100mg
Calcium-Magnesium Citramate: 80mg each
Milk Thistle
GABA
Theanine
High Potency B-Vitamin
Acidophilus
Digestive Enzymes (Amylase, Lipase, etc.)
Licorice Root/Glutamine/Aloe Leaf Digestion support mixture
N-Acetyl Cysteine

Any ideas on any of these that could be causing me issue? I did take the calcium and magensium at night, as I know that can cause issues if taken in the morning... but I'm at a loss for what else could be causing the issue.

Thanks in advance for any help! :D

Hi there.

Some of these supplements look very good while others may be dubious at best. I'll try to avoid reiterating what others have said but I question the Magnesium/Calcium information presented here.

I was always under the impression that a deficiency in Mg (which is closely intertwined with Calcium metabolism) could cause high blood pressure, anxiety and nervousness, fatigue and tiredness, muscle twitches, low blood sugar, and heart palpitations. It's an extremely important substance for over 100+ biochemical reactions in the body.

Furthermore, I've read that amphetamines can accelerate magnesium loss from the body and that combined with potentially lower dietary intake (due to amphetamines appetite suppressing effects) it's almost like a 1-2 punch and you can become deficient in it. I was planning on beginning a Mg regimen myself this weekend to see if it improved the effects of Vyvanse.

EDIT: here is a link to a forum post here that discusses this and is the source of my confusion when people here say not to take it: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9575


CoQ10 I agree with other posters here: Could be causing some of the heart-related effects/chest tightening and I don't see the real advantage of taking it.

GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter and that's going to play tug-of-war when you take Vyvanse which is a stimulant. GABA will make you feel fatigued and tired for sure and GABA is the target of things like alcohol and benzodiazepines which are sedatives.

I've read random reports and anecdotes that glutamine may lower the effectiveness of Vyvanse but I can't say for sure why or how.

I see that you are taking a lot of digestion-related supplements. Be advised that Vyvanse is dependent on a normal digestive system and environment to even work period because it is inactive until it hits your intestines. If you are taking supplements that make your digestive environment more acidic, less Vyvanse will get into your blood to start working. If it's too basic (alkaline) then too much Vyvanse can get into your blood and you may feel twitchy and unpleasant from overstimulation.

My ultimate advice is #1, talk to your doctor if you are unusure of a supplement and #2, perhaps try process of elimination to see which one is the culprit.

Start off by omitting one or two supplements and seeing how you feel. If you feel the same, then omit a different pair. If you feel better, then you know the one you omitted can be causing the negative interactions.

CalmTheChaos
06-10-10, 10:17 PM
Some of these supplements look very good while others may be dubious at best. I'll try to avoid reiterating what others have said but I question the Magnesium/Calcium information presented here.

I was always under the impression that a deficiency in Mg (which is closely intertwined with Calcium metabolism) could cause high blood pressure, anxiety and nervousness, fatigue and tiredness, muscle twitches, low blood sugar, and heart palpitations. It's an extremely important substance for over 100+ biochemical reactions in the body.

Furthermore, I've read that amphetamines can accelerate magnesium loss from the body and that combined with potentially lower dietary intake (due to amphetamines appetite suppressing effects) it's almost like a 1-2 punch and you can become deficient in it. I was planning on beginning a Mg regimen myself this weekend to see if it improved the effects of Vyvanse.

EDIT: here is a link to a forum post here that discusses this and is the source of my confusion when people here say not to take it: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9575
...
If you are taking supplements that make your digestive environment more acidic, less Vyvanse will get into your blood to start working. If it's too basic (alkaline) then too much Vyvanse can get into your blood and you may feel twitchy and unpleasant from overstimulation.


I'm sorry, novaprospekt, but I take issue with you on this, and I have to say something...

First, your description of acidic/alkaline digestive environments on the absorption of Vyvanse is categorically incorrect.

Also, you have (self-admittedly) zero first-hand experience with Magnesium supplements, yet you are giving advice on the matter.

You are also citing a 6-year-old post which has zero basis in fact. Rather, its contents have been lifted from another site which was developed for the purpose of discussing the recreational abuse of illegal drugs.

If you spent the proper time and followed the paper trail of your (mis)information, you would see that it's all anecdotal, it's all reposted from site to site to site, and it never leads back to actual medical research addressing the matters at hand.

Furthermore, you are using this misinformation in an attempt to debunk the factual study I posted, which links Magnesium's "anxiolytic-like" effects (read: tranquilizer effects) on Benzodiazepine/GABA receptors.

If that weren't enough for you, I can also back up my findings with recent bloodwork specifically targeted at Ca/Mg levels, which showed that Ca was mid-range normal and Mg was high-range normal. This bloodwork was conducted 3 weeks after ceasing Mg supplements, and I had 120mg Vyvanse + 20mg Adderall IR in my system at the time.

I also have first-hand experience from structured experimentation with Magnesium Glycinate over a period of 6 weeks, where I determined that it had zero affect on reducing tolerance, and it absolutely destroyed the effectiveness of stimulant meds for 18-36 hours after ingestion. It did provide some relief of the side effects, but that stemmed from the tranquilizing effects across the board.

Certainly, I realize that everyone's body functions differently, so peoples' mileage may vary. I don't expect that everyone's results will match mine.

Certainly, I realize that this is a very public forum for calling you out, and I'm sorry for that. But, this isn't the first time I've seen you pass on borrowed and unfounded information as if it were fact.

So, I'd just like to urge you (and everyone else in the community) to be courteous enough to yourself to double-check your sources of information and check with your doctor before making any changes to your regimen. You should also be responsible enough to have a solid basis of first-hand experience before making recommendations to other people.

6-year-old anecdotes from chronic drug abusers may be good enough for you, but it's not right to put other people at risk because you're not willing to validate your information before passing it on.

novaprospekt
06-11-10, 12:24 AM
I'm sorry, novaprospekt, but I take issue with you on this, and I have to say something...

First, your description of acidic/alkaline digestive environments on the absorption of Vyvanse is categorically incorrect.

Also, you have (self-admittedly) zero first-hand experience with Magnesium supplements, yet you are giving advice on the matter.

You are also citing a 6-year-old post which has zero basis in fact. Rather, its contents have been lifted from another site which was developed for the purpose of discussing the recreational abuse of illegal drugs.

If you spent the proper time and followed the paper trail of your (mis)information, you would see that it's all anecdotal, it's all reposted from site to site to site, and it never leads back to actual medical research addressing the matters at hand.

Furthermore, you are using this misinformation in an attempt to debunk the factual study I posted, which links Magnesium's "anxiolytic-like" effects (read: tranquilizer effects) on Benzodiazepine/GABA receptors.

If that weren't enough for you, I can also back up my findings with recent bloodwork specifically targeted at Ca/Mg levels, which showed that Ca was mid-range normal and Mg was high-range normal. This bloodwork was conducted 3 weeks after ceasing Mg supplements, and I had 120mg Vyvanse + 20mg Adderall IR in my system at the time.

I also have first-hand experience from structured experimentation with Magnesium Glycinate over a period of 6 weeks, where I determined that it had zero affect on reducing tolerance, and it absolutely destroyed the effectiveness of stimulant meds for 18-36 hours after ingestion. It did provide some relief of the side effects, but that stemmed from the tranquilizing effects across the board.

Certainly, I realize that everyone's body functions differently, so peoples' mileage may vary. I don't expect that everyone's results will match mine.

Certainly, I realize that this is a very public forum for calling you out, and I'm sorry for that. But, this isn't the first time I've seen you pass on borrowed and unfounded information as if it were fact.

So, I'd just like to urge you (and everyone else in the community) to be courteous enough to yourself to double-check your sources of information and check with your doctor before making any changes to your regimen. You should also be responsible enough to have a solid basis of first-hand experience before making recommendations to other people.

6-year-old anecdotes from chronic drug abusers may be good enough for you, but it's not right to put other people at risk because you're not willing to validate your information before passing it on.

Okay. I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to publicly imply/accuse me of purportedly giving out "mis"information as god given fact. I spend some of my free time on here trying to give some advice based on what I know, and perhaps what I think using an educated guess or personal experience. I make it perfectly clear on every single post that I make that I am not a doctor but merely a college student interested in the subject - I've never pretended anything else. My signature clearly states to ALWAYS discuss things with a doctor first.

I am well aware that Vyvanse is not classical Adderall or Dexedrine where acidic/alkaline digestive environments matter a great deal more whereas lysine-dextroamphetamine needs to be cleaved first to be activated. Once l-lysine is cleaved though, it is dextroamphetamine and follows dextroamphetamine pharmacology and that I do know. The lysine is only a delivery system but there are proteases in the stomach and in the intestines that will cleave lysine and then the normal acidic/alkaline rules of classical amphetamine absorption would apply, just not to the extent of the other meds. I have personally experienced less effectiveness in my dose if I consume OJ with breakfast (and my vyvanse) and that can't be a coincidence from the citric acid.

You're right, I have zero first hand experience regarding Magnesium. I offered insight of what I have read across the internet and cited one particular source, but I have many many others. I never said you were straight up wrong, in fact, I wanted you or someone else to correct me if I was wrong and tell me why. If anything, I want to learn from discussing things here as much as the next guy. That was the intent when I said "I question the Mg/Ca information." Don't take me out of context.

The information I posted regarding the role of magnesium (specifically the consequences of deficiency) I firmly believe is correct based on numerous articles all over the web I've read researching whether I want to buy it to use as a supplement myself. And as far as amphetamines accelerating Mg loss, yeah that may be more dubious but how many studies are out there comparing the two? Could you find one for me? The latter half regarding lower Mg intake perhaps exacerbated by the appetite reduction side effect isn't flawed thinking. Like you said everyone's "mileage" may vary because of body differences -- I'm sure it's possible for a deficiency to be brought on by not eating as much.

The post I cited admittedly looked well researched which is why I cited it. I also cited it for others to read and make their own judgments about. I've never heard of the Blue Light forum and if you say it's a place for drug abusers then I honestly want nothing to do with them. I know Vyvanse has an issue with causing tolerance or feeling like it's effects don't last as long as they do and I was looking for a way to mitigate that and perhaps share what I find with others. There wasn't anything malicious in my intent here. I did not read that entire thread -- only the informative post. I also don't see why data from several years ago is a primary reason not to share it. Sure, there may be new information as of 2010 but that doesn't mean old data is totally worthless, and that's assuming it was refuted or revised.

Should I have "followed the paper trail of (mis)information" re: bluelight forum and more googling? Perhaps. But on the other hand, there aren't many scientific studies period on Mg interactions with dopaminergic/noradrenergic neruons and how that plays a role with ADD meds. Again, if you can find one for me, please I'd be very interested in reading it instead of relying on googles random website results.

I know what anxiolytic effects mean and don't need to read what a tranquilizer is. Indeed, I am prescribed clonazepam. The article you posted only shows an abstract for me and while I read the abstract, I would have liked to be able to read the entire experiment. Not to say an abstract is invalid -- but for example, why was 20mg/kg tried for the mice? If you apply 20mg/kg "therapeutic Mg" then for a 77kg person like me, I'd need to consume 3090mg of Magnesium to have the same anixolytic therapy if you are holding mice equivalents the same to humans and I know that's not always the case. These are answers I could learn if I had access to the entire article (perhaps). Have any human studies been done to corroborate this because there are plenty of experiments in mice that don't translate or may be completely opposite to effects in humans involving drugs/substance effects on physiology.

I'm glad you have personal experience taking Mg glycinate that you can share with me and everyone else. I was hunting for a good salt of Mg to buy this Saturday and was considering trying the glycinate salt. Maybe the malate or pyruvate salt if I can find it could be different. Hopefully (using your words) my mileage with Mg will be different than what yours is, but if I notice that the Vyvanse isn't as effective under Mg supplement influence I'll know earlier why now and stop taking it.

Let me conclude by reiterating that I don't get my sources from 6 year old drug abusers forums. In fact, that was one example and I was oblivious to the origins of that information. It was sophisticated (jargonized) to the point where I wasn't questioning the motives of the author whereas in other situations you can kind of tell the author is looking for ways to abuse something. Every thing I post here is in good faith and never with the intent to mislead or deceive anybody.

In the future, if you take exception with something I say so seriously, I'd appreciate it if you could please privately message me -- these forums permit it -- and not only can we discuss it, but I can also correct or remove things that may not be true. Instead, I'm forced to sit here and play defense because it appears I am being taken way out of context.

demo3210
06-11-10, 10:53 PM
Wow, DIMD! That's a lot of supplements. And I thought I was bad. Just kidding.

Make sure you're telling your doctor about everything you've mentioned here.

Anyway, I can only offer my experience relating to mainly one of your symptoms and that is tingling sensation in your hands. I once had tingling sensations in my foot (one foot only) and I went to the doctor. The doc said I should take a high dose B12 vitamin solely. I did and amazingly enough, after two months of ridiculously annoying sensations in my foot, the sensations went away!

However, your experience is different in that, from what I can read, it is affecting both your hands - but still is related to extremities. In regards to your high dose b vitamin, make sure the folic acid level isn't above the normal requirement (100%). There is some evidence to suggest that folic acid can be harmful if taken in excessive amounts and it is somehow related to B12 deficiency. For more info, see here. (http://futurity.org/health-medicine/folic-acid-too-much-of-a-good-thing/) You can see the actual study link in there if you want too, but I think the article is clearer.

Tingling sensations in extremities, which could potentially be classified as neuropathy if it is a condition, can be a sign of diabetes. If that runs in your family, you might want to evaluate the other symptoms of diabetes. Neuropathy, at least as it relates to diabetes, can be caused from high glucose levels.

Another experience I had was with calcium in a completely separate experience. I started taking a calcium supplement because I dislike the taste of milk. After 2 days, I started getting tingling sensations in both my feet. I stopped taking the calcium supplement and it went away. I never touched a calcium supplement again. I have no idea why that happened to me from calcium.

That's just my experience as it relates to me only. Be careful with all those supplements. The only way to find out what you should do is to talk to your doc.

TheDIMD
06-16-10, 07:05 PM
Wow! Thanks for everybody's replies here :).

I've talked to my doctor about everything that I'm on here... he's a Psychiatrist who (if you can believe it) works at a naturopath on the weekends. He's a great guy and just wants people to feel better.

Anyways, his program that looks up supplemental reactions with medications indicated that Magnesium had beneficial properties in eliminating negative symptoms experienced by those taking Amphetamines.

On the other hand, I've read countless articles on the internet that both dismiss/confirm the above statement. It's amazing how hard it is to get a clear answer on the subject.

However, I did lose the tingling sensation in my extremities when eliminating the calcium supplement, so I'm definitely with you there. I stopped taking that and don't think I'll start up again anytime soon. CoQ10 is also gone and I'm feeling a world better for it.

My major nagging issues that are still prevalent however is heartburn and brain fog. I've talked to my doctor about Heartburn and they want to put me on anti-acid medications for it... I refuse as they make me feel horrible and it would be a rather bad idea if mixed with my Vyvanse. It's gotten better since I stopped taking CoQ10 oddly, but I wonder if anything else I'm taking has been known to cause acid reflux.

(A side note on the above issue: My stomach is very odd. I'm a cancer survivor and due to some complications while under treatment, my esophagus had to be altered in order eliminate a stricture that had developed which completely shut off access to my stomach. As a result, I now have some very odd issues including a reverse effect than most people get from foods. Bananas cause heartburn in me for example. So does bread. Go figure.)

In regard to the brain fog, I've pretty much given up on figuring that one out. I've lived in an almost dream like state for as long as I can remember now and it's pretty freaking ridiculous. I can imagine the amount of things I could accomplish were I to be able to think clearly, but nothing I've tried seems to work in helping me fix that. I've quit taking amphetamines for 6 months to see whether or not it was them that was causing it... but it wasn't. It's like I can feel my frontal lobe tingling even sometimes... it's very annoying and I wish I could figure out what the heck is going on up there lol.

Does anyone have any advice for these two questions? Thank you all so much for your help. I appreciate it an incredible amount :D

CalmTheChaos
06-16-10, 07:30 PM
With regard to the heartburn, I did have some reflux and sick stomach feelings when I first started Vyvanse. But, these went away after 6-8 weeks or so.

As far as the brain fog goes, I'm stumped that you feel the same way whether amphetamines are in the picture or not. Definitely keep researching this and asking lots of questions. You'll come up with the answer eventually! Be sure to keep us posted on your findings.

TheDIMD
06-16-10, 07:37 PM
Thanks! Will do for sure :).

Interesting tidbit, Alcohol of all things tends to eliminate the brain fog in SMALL doses (one-2 shots or beers). I don't want to be using a poison however to eliminate the symptoms... plus, although getting rid of the brain fog, it can also make me feel kinda weird after a while lol.