(Please excuse me if this is in the wrong forum area.)

Hello there,

I'm a 15 year old recently diagnosed with low-level Attention Deficit Disorder. I'm slated to begin medication at the start of the next school year (July 19th). However, I had a few questions before that happens. First, let me give you an overview of my habits:

I smoke marijuana 3-5 times per week (1 to 2 times per day). I've found that it helps me concentrate (as strange as that sounds) and allows me to give a much greater effort when performing tasks that I find to be boring and quickly lose interest in. My question is this: what effects (if any) does marijuana usage have on ADD medication? Keep in mind that I'm no "pothead" (case in point: I haven't smoked for nearly a month because I have been vacationing in Florida and could not bring anything with me). I smoke to relax, and also because I enjoy the high, and use filtration methods, as well as smoke completely organic marijuana, so that I inhale as clean a smoke as possible; the reason I'm saying this is because I'm sure someone will be quick to lay out all the reasons pot is horrible and I shouldn't smoke it.

Excuse my rambling; in any case, what effects does it have, and is there any way to counteract these effects besides quitting marijuana (something I'm certainly not planning on doing anytime soon)?

Thanks so much.

Mike

M1ke welcome aboard. Hope you can join in and push the bounds a bit. As far as I could tell there isn't much verified about the complex compound marijuana except that smoke is bad for you.

I'm not prepared to draw any firm conclusions just now but I'm leaning away from grass being of use to me.

Here are some threads I turned up with the forums search function.

Cheers! ian.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7781&highlight=marijuana

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7599&highlight=marijuana

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3619&highlight=marijuana

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4961&highlight=marijuana

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3854&highlight=marijuana

obviously this below is a hypothetical work of fiction
as i assume your's was
and all verbs should be assumed to be in the subjuctive
(legal disclaimer)

what are you taking for meds?

me too at the end of the day
does not seem to be effected by the welbutrin or the adderal i take
actually it is nice with the adderal as the up and calm go well together

the only effects i get are the ones i got before taking meds
foggy in the morning et cetera
this is caused by the lowering of vasopressin in your brain it is a hormone
involved in memory, attention, and urine production
i kid you not
it is situational memory
ie from an evolutionary stand point
so we are speaking of early man
you find something good to eat
like a fruit tree
ie there is a time limit, competition from other animals and humans
or you are running away or fighting something dangerous

you want to concentate
you want to remember and
you do not want to have to pee in the middle of all this

so nature in her lazyness uses one hormone to do all this
it is not exactly a memory improver like you are learning a list
but general memory of a type of situation
ie situational memory
but it does help concentration some
if i am blurry in the morning it helps my brain get back faster

it helps a little with concentration
helps the adderal be more effective
does not seem to have any bad side effects
with adderall as its slowing of urine productions is countered by the speeds increase in urine production.

but like all things read
all you can find
think
remember
learn
do not take any chemical for granted

i have experimented with intranasal administration of a neurotransmitter
which helps memory
but if the levels get too high it induces depresion
with i take welbutrin for
the levels gradually crept up and i did not realise i was depressed for a couple of weeks and did not get much done
which in college is a bummer
have to take one class over because of this

i was not vigilent
and this was on a dose of 0.0004 gm/day of the straight neurotransmitter
i have some really accurate scales !!!

so be warned
but then you are asking so you are obviously a smart young man

and remember neuropharmacology can be a fun hobby
and anyone with add treated with meds is basicly taking it up as one

it is a serious hobby
like mountain climbing
the rewards more productive than mountain climbing
but the falls can be tragic.

Also respect the fact that though you are bright and nearly of legal age
you are not so others are held responsible for you
even if they do not know what you are doing
be careful for their sake, if you mess up the guilt alone can ruin their lives


oh one last thing i looked at some of the other posts on maj and it does make the meds work less well
this is true
take it all into consideration
nothing is free there is always a give and take
you get one thing but loose on something else

you will know if you are getting out of life what you want and if it is interfering

when i start taking serious courses next year i will have to smoke much less

itschaotic: I own a number of smoking devices, but I tend to use my water-pipes because one or two bong hits and I'm good for a couple of hours, they filter out a lot of harmful toxins (though the pot I smoke is about the best you'll find in the US and doesn't really have a lot of the toxins you'd find in schwag and commercial sticks and stems that are grown with pesticides), and they're just plain easy and fun to use. But I am interested slightly in vaporizers...I guess I'm just of the old school of thought when it comes to smoking---I like to feel the smoke in my lungs, not the vapors. ;) Thanks for the links, I'll have to read them when I get a little time.


robmhill: interesting post. While I had a hard time following you because of your rather staggered writing style ( ;) ), I'm considering a lot of what you have to say. You make some good points, and some I disagree with, but thank you for your insight. Maybe we could talk outside of the forum sometime.


I rarely smoke to get totally couchlock stoned. I prefer to be high with the ability to still function (and in my case, I function very, very well when high). With that in mind, it's also not an addiction that's going to lead to any jailtime. I very rarely smoke in public (and by public I mean in public areas away from the view of people there), I don't associate myself with any dealers, and I haven't bought pot for quite a long time and don't plan on doing so as I've always got a ready source of good, organic dank that have no problem giving me a half ounce for free (I've got a small area where I'll be harvesting a few cannabis plants for personal use just so that I'm not tempted to ever buy again).

I kind of went off on a tangent there...my point of all that was that a certain degree of responsibility is involved in everything in life and pot is no different. I know many people who live incredibly comfortable and prosperous lives while smoking several times every day; case in point, my sister's boyfriend is a biologist who smokes pot two to three times per day. I know I'll never turn into a burnout because I've got a lot going for me that I can't afford to ruin; promising writing and culinary arts careers later in life, editing a major national magazine (www dot pbnationmagazine dot com if you were interested), etc. I don't mean to brag, just laying out the reasons why I won't turn into a pot junkie who lives in his mom's basement at 30.


Thanks again for your interest.


Mike

While there really isn't conclusive research that states Marijuana isn't good for ADD or that is interfers with ADD medication most of the ADD experts will say that it isn't good for the ADD brain.

Well, marijuana in general really isn't GOOD for you persay...I expected that much. I just wanted to know if smoking the amount of pot I do will affect my medication in any harmful ways.

Mike

I've not been able to find any research that has been submitted to peer review. Gregster here has a tremendous amount of insight into pharmacy. He may have posted something a ways back in this thread. Have you checked your settings and used the search function here M1ke?

Please post back if you find credible sources regarding ADD / ADHD and the use of marijuana and the intereactions with meds. As I recall the consensus here while discussing this earlier was that grass is too complex a compound for it to do anything but act erratically from med to med and person to person.

I have heard that grass is comprised of 60 or so active ingredients and this makes it unlikely to act predictably or reliably as an adjunct to any scientific based med scheme.

I've been using it for about a month or so and it's not helping. It will take a while to clean out and reflect on my learnings but one thing that is obvious is my short term memory stalls are much more frequent and profoundly lame! I got caught on the phone the other day not being able to recall my postal code twice in the same conversation.

I love what it does for sex. Period.

I am much less crisp of mind.

I am hung over in the mornings.

I fear it's escapeism.

I'm feeling resilient because of the length and intensity of my work out routines but without them I'd be on shaky ground I think. I feel like I can get clean with some training in the near future. A month maybe? I don't know the details of what's expected as far as the half life.

I have waffled some on this topic.

Cheers! Ian.

thanks for trying to follow me, i really should rewrite after i write like that to make it easier. It reads fine to me and i forget, that others have trouble with it.
hey i have pdd as well so...

there i put that into norm style, and you can email me or whatever.
i have made lots of mistakes so i know a lot ;)

I enjoy using marijuana because it helps me better than any of the medications I have ever taken. I have a moderate level autism and bi-polar, and possibly tourette's. When I smoke it, I become a happy person, I feel motivated, I can focus more, and my tics go away. My severe problems with initiating and holding conversations are improved.

The medications I am on are: risperidone, lithium, wellbutrin and adderall. After I started the wellbutrin and adderall, strange things started to happen. I would get this really strange feeling in my head, like my brain is spinning. It comes and goes in waves, and it radiates out to my scalp and down my neck. It is annoying, but it's not horrible. However, when I smoked, these feelings became extremely intense, it's like a crazy pain, yet it does not hurt. It now begins to move throughout my body, and I begin to have these feelings like my body is petrifying as i sit there. So I have to constantly keep moving each body part, including my head and neck for fear of losing control of myself. I have extreme paranoia that I am going to have a seizure or pass out. It makes me mad because the therapeutic effects are dramatically decreased, and I get these extremely uncomfortable feelings instead.

So I have to replace an herb that actually helps me a great deal, with a legal medication that doesn't work nearly as well. Marijuana has been known to help people with autism and tourette's, but since society and the government are so :eek: over it, no proper studies can be done.

There is a big pile of anecdotal support for the use of cannabis for treating various medical problems.

If you are in Canada there are legal ways for you to have grass on hand for you condition. I don't know about elsewhere.

Cheers! Ian.

Devil,

I would not use marijuana with stimulant meds for ADHD. Marijuana increases the heart rate and so to ADHD meds. I would be afraid of that if it were me.

KH

That would be scary for me yup. I rev pretty high with THC in my system.
ian

hey there! when i was prescribed my medication i had to agree to not smoke marijuana but of course i didnt really agree in my head...so i had a smoke and guess what...the ADD returned and it was worse than ever so i guessed that maybe the marijuana reversed the ADD medication. I just dont bother smoking it now because it doesnt make me feel good at all and i become stupider and stupider!

smart... really smart.. lol

There are a few things to consider here. First off, there are two "breeds" of Marijuana. Cannabis Sativa, which contains more THC and less of the other cannabinoids (sp?). It produces a more "up" high, very cerebral, very energetic. And Cannabis Indica, which contains more CBN and other cannabinoids and less THC. This is the "stoney" type of high, with the couchlock effect. More of a downer, more relaxing. And then there are hybrids of the two. So depending on the meds you are taking, different strains of pot could, theoretically, effect them differently. For me personally, stimulant meds screw me up. And I mean big time...I don't really know what it is, but they only worsen my symptoms, with or without pot. The only thing i've noticed is with meds such as straterra, since, for me, it vastly slowed the racing of my brain, it would take more of either type of MJ to get me high. You really have to experiment, it varies from person to person.

My mother is very strict and would never do anything against the law and said she was disappointed in me, last week when, I brought up pot. She said she raised me better then that. I'm 39 and have smoked it since I was 15. Granted theres been times I smoked more then needed. I think for some you only get so high. I am not an overidulger in anything yet, I'll try most everything, I will read up on things and then make my own evaluation. We are all different and what works for some, is not necessarilly true for the next. With me, most people have never been able to tell when, I smoke, were as you couldn't same the same as others like my sister. I am with Mike a small amount couple bong hits and I can get the crap down I don't want to. I get very productive. One "J" a day I'm off work and I can get a lot done. I think it's because I relax and just do with out letting my mind enter the picture to much, When I find my self standing in a room staring at 20 things I need to do and it starts racing wondering where to start, it's time for another hit, and I get productive for a few more hours again. Now my 19 yr old son, who is also ADHD get right dahhhh like when he smokes, and you can tell it, but when I talked to him about my ADHD he said that even though pot makes him that way to a point, he focuses better. meds he said made him feel like he was watching himself through a window, and doesn't like em. I don't think its for everyone, but we happen not to be like everyone. Different drugs make me different compared how they make others. Pain meds - hype me and make me irritable and hallusinate, valuim I can take in very small amounts. Alchole- wires me, and makes me wild. Coke, meth and the such in small amount can focus me, But I don't like the side effects, and what it does to people around me, Allthough I have done some great art on such, I hate it, It is not a good thing. Ritalin- focuses me pretty well, my daughter thinks I'd do well on Adderal,she is 3 yrs pychology student and ADD we think. We both feel you have to be stronger then your disease. But it can be hard, I believe in doing what works for you as long as your not hurting yourself or anyone else....Overindulging is the issue with anything, Caffien makes my breast hurt. And I don't go nuts if I don't have what I need, I may be more scatterbrained and quiet but functional anyway...

Hi M1ke,
I just wanted to add a few things. Smoking with a water pipe is not actually healthier other than the fact that the smoke is cooler and will do less heat-damage to the tissue that it comes in contact with. A major study comissioned by MAPS and NORML California proved that water pipes actually result in smoke with a lower THC:toxin ratio. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, smoking from a water pipe is actually worse for you because it filters more THC than it does tar.

The study found that other than vaporizers, a plain old joint has the best THC:tar ratio compared to other devices.

Reference: http://www.norml.org.nz/article130.html

In terms of my own personal experience, during the last three years I used THC I was using a heat-gun vaporizer. I used a particular model heat gun which allowed me to dial in the perfect temperature with help of a digital display. Through trial and error I found the temperature that worked best for vaporizing the THC without releasing combustion by-product. I found that not only were my lungs in love with it, but my highs were much "cleaner," and didn't cause fatigue. The point of this post is harm-reduction, not high-enhancement, so I won't go into the many other ways in which vaporizing using this method is superior to smoking (other than to briefly mention two: it's much easier to appreciate differences in different strains of marijuana both in terms of taste and high, and one needs to use much less marijuana compared to smoking).


Good luck.

My recommendation is to go to your local library and read the books "change your brain, change your life," and "healing add." Pot is a misleading drug because I too feel like I focus better and relax. Pot is something that can make add symptoms worse over time. Dr. Amen is someone who has been researching add and various neurological psychiatric conditions for years and has a lot of research regarding spect testing which measures the activity in different parts of the brain. His books contain many real life situations of people and their experiences related to add and different drugs.
https://www.mindworkspress.com/mp/default.asp
Once you learn more about how add works, it becomes about adapting your lifestyle with the right eating/exercise habits,ect.

all i can say is unless you want to end up totaly emotionaly unstable avoide the ****...its one of the main contributors to a whole pile of emotional instability for me.

a light dose of MJ makes me pay more attention in class. I like to smoke MJ right when my adderall kicks in. But the best is when you are coming down:)

Marijuana should probably not be mixed with your current medications; they simply haven’t documented how the drugs interact with each other, unless of course you enjoy being a test subject (which you already are if you've agreed to take ADD medications).

I was diagnosed with ADD at a very youngest age, so I’ve had my fair share of medications. It's safe to say my life was on a downward spiral and I was probably on my way to prison until I discovered our little wonder drug (for some). I was 230 pounds at 6'1, lazy as all hell with absolutely 0 motivation. My mother was a drug alcohol consoler and my dad an EX-drug dealer with a rather dim outlook on all of it from his experiences. So when I was offered marijuana by friends I was very quick to turn it down. One day after a little peer pressure I agreed to try just a little puff off my friend’s pipe. Talk about a radical life change; Today I weigh 175 and have been participating in kick boxing for 2 years now and live an over all happier life. That being said I’ve had friends who are addicted to pot in ways I can't even understand, especially when I watch them smoking the resin that gathers inside there smoking apparatus (pretty gross stuff). Marijuana like any drug has widely different effects from person to person, I myself become extremely energetic and focused, and some people become the world’s worst couch potato's. It is very unfortunate that medical marijuana is frowned upon by our government, as I do not support self medication with ANY drug.

If marijuana does seem helpful to you, you may have a form of ADD/ADHD known as RBS (racing brain syndrome). A quick Google search for “racing brain syndrome” will produce some results, but RBS is not as well known as ADD/ADHD and there isn’t to much information on it out there…

Always keep in mind that despite how great marijuana may work for you its legality may raise problems for you in the end. (especially for younger users!)



PS - I pasted this from office so the format got screwy, sorry if it's hard to read.

- Zach

The ADD medication ( amphetamines in particular ) makes it much more potent.

Smoking helped my ADD. Temporarily. I smoked when I studied, when I wrote papers and when I had fun. But it made me anxious when on ritilan so I switched to adderal. It made me have weed breath so I bought altoids. It made me crave it so I moved to California. I can keep going but as you can see, weed took control of my life and my treatment.

I don't think it does this to people without ADD but with my ADD, I lost control of the smoking and wish I never started.

I see no effectiveness in treating ADHD with pot. However I do enjoy smoking it. Taking it with dex is the best way there is. It brings the high to a whole new level and makes your body give false impressions of movement. This is usualy with higher levels of dex though. I would never smoke before I wanted to do something like right a paper or study. Once or twice a week for enjoyment is good enuf for me. One thing I like about it is that I am very skinny and Dex makes me not hungry. I eat a hell of a lot when I'm high.

Well this is interesting.....heck I am in the mood for some thing different any way....

I smoked more "MJ" before I treated my ADD with medications.....you did not mention what kind of ADD you have (inattentive, combined, or impulsive)

I am impulsive and smoked weed because it "slowed" me down and toned me down to a "normal" level......yes it did help me concentrate because I could sit still and shut up long enough to do so.

Now that I am on the proper medications find I need no longer need to endanger my future with the use of illegal substance.......before all begin to yell "square" I have found the proper mix of medication also curbs my desire to over indulge period.....

This means I have more control over me......I cut the grass, can drink only one mixed drink (as opposed to drinking until I was too drunk to find the liquor) and "physical relations" that would be both kinds (yes I am less apt to become maw bell and reach out a touch some one)

...I have found now on my medications I just like being me the way I feel inside, without the hassles of “scoring” or worry about urine test, legal consequences, I can be me with in the confines of the law!!!!!! That was amazing in and of itself.

Isn't getting high all about changing the way you feel inside, when I became the me I was comfortable being I naturally decreased my use of "other chemical substances".

By the way I have (by personal experience) found smoking pot while on Adderall decreased the effectiveness of the Adderall. My ability to concentrate, motivate, and stay organized are best helped by my Adderall if I refrained from the use of pot!!!! I didn't die from mixing the two (obviously) I just found for me that the meds worked better alone!!

Well now you got one more honest opinion!!!!

Hallowell and Ratey answer the following question in their book Answers to Distraction p. 267

In your experience, what is the most dangerous substance of addiction for the ADD adolescent?

"Without a doubt, it is marijuana. Rachel Gittleman-Klein, a pioneer in studying ADD's course through the life cycle, warns against an ADD child using marijuana even once. Its effects are so compelling for the ADD brain that it seems to become immediately psychologically addictive. It creates a calmness with a heightened sense of adventure -- all within the brain. One of the true delights for ADD people is to play with their thoughts and their ideas and building intense and intricate fantasies. Marijuana accentuates the zaniness and doubles the intensity, all within the backdrop of serenity.

"We see so many adults in their late twenties who have been addicted to heavy daily doses of marijuana for years, and have seen their great potential wasted in acrid smoke. The irony is that marijuana makes ADD symptoms worse. It makes you more distractible, worsens your memory, increases the tendency to procrastinate,and decreases motivation. It should be avoided at all costs, for it lurks as a temptation that can destroy a life." (emphasis added mine)

Thought you should know ...

Take care,
Scattered

I think many of us have experimented with some type of substance and I believe that some of the honesty in this thread can be beneficial in many ways and it's understandable that some are uncomfortable with the thread topic. Sometimes I think that it's helpful to talk openly, truthfully about abuse and recreational use. Even though there are times it appears that the subject matter is glorified, there are those of us that know what it is like to mix substances and hope that others understand that while the escape feels wonderful, we all know it's short-lived and the long-term side effects for this type of coping mechanism far outweighs the short-term high. Whether we want to face it or not, the things we are trying to escape from will still be there...and yes, even though we think it's just fun and relaxing, these are potential signs of a greater, underlying issue.

Abusers sometimes need to talk/discuss that abuse, even if it’s ongoing. Seeing the words, the addiction in black and white is beneficial. Some may come and mock the process but all in all someone will hopefully walk away understanding that they’re not alone and that perhaps there is hope, leaving with the understanding that once you discover the root of your problems and find the correct medication and dose, the need/desire to self-medicate has the potential to decrease.

Hi, I just registered for this site and was doing a search for "lithium" when I came across this thread.

I know it's old and the original poster likely isn't reading anymore but I feel the need to put my 2 cents in....


I LOVE MARIJUANA. If it was up to me, it'd be legal...

With that said, if you have symptoms of ADD or depression, DO NOT USE MARIJUANA.

The reasons for this is too long to post but basically pot can cause difficulty in learning how to deal with feelings/emotions that HAVE to be dealt with at some point and can cause a great amount of paranoia.

Marijuana isn't evil but it's not for everyone. Unfortunately, we're in the "not for everyone" category":(

Love your style. :D Hope to hear lots from you in the near future! heheh

Hallowell and Ratey answer the following question in their book Answers to Distraction p. 267

In your experience, what is the most dangerous substance of addiction for the ADD adolescent?

"Without a doubt, it is marijuana. Rachel Gittleman-Klein, a pioneer in studying ADD's course through the life cycle, warns against an ADD child using marijuana even once. Its effects are so compelling for the ADD brain that it seems to become immediately psychologically addictive. It creates a calmness with a heightened sense of adventure -- all within the brain. One of the true delights for ADD people is to play with their thoughts and their ideas and building intense and intricate fantasies. Marijuana accentuates the zaniness and doubles the intensity, all within the backdrop of serenity.

"We see so many adults in their late twenties who have been addicted to heavy daily doses of marijuana for years, and have seen their great potential wasted in acrid smoke. The irony is that marijuana makes ADD symptoms worse. It makes you more distractible, worsens your memory, increases the tendency to procrastinate,and decreases motivation. It should be avoided at all costs, for it lurks as a temptation that can destroy a life." (emphasis added mine)

Thought you should know ...

Take care,
Scattered
Very true, I was addicted for a long time. I smoked from 12 or 13 to around 24. I feel like I wasted all of those years on nothing. It was fun at the time and sometimes I miss it, but life is so much better without it. I'm glad I made it through those years without f***ing up my life any worse.

That about sums it up for me too. It was great at the time, so I thought. In retrospect, it was a wash and quite damaging.

That about sums it up for me too. It was great at the time, so I thought. In retrospect, it was a wash and quite damaging.Agreed! I was another big-time smoker, I always had this image of myself all old and wrinkly, on some porch somewhere with a doob glommed to my lip. In retrospect in seems I was just kind of dopey and foggy. I honestly think I behaved less intelligently no matter how high-flown my babble seemed at the time...and still can seem to me, w/o my Concerta ;)

I think for me it worked in terms of inspiration. I realise more and more each day how truly creative we ADDers are (yea I love y'all!) and pot made me "inspired". It got me off my butt and made me move through previously boring tasks, like housecleaning (oh housecleaning how do I loathe thee!).

Then one day I woke up and was out of weed...and just never went back to get any. Maybe I got bored of trying to score. Maybe I just got lucky.

In any event, I have found I get the same inspiration just in different non-drug-related ways. Blasting music that I have selected at what might seem to be an outrageous volume to a casual observer has the same inspirational effect on me. It took time and trial and error to find that out!

Like meadd said, please don't holler "square" my way. I am trying to raise my ADDer to not selfmedicate in a rough world, and it would be terribly damaging to her if I were arrested for possession :eek: and that CAN and DOES happen!

I say this as a chronic pain patient as well...I'm taking enough controlled substances for now, thank you very much, and its not worth the legal hassle. If the government gets over itself and accepts some of the chronic pain research regarding THC I certainly would not rule it out in the future. I would hope that in the event that THC is legalised for chronic pain sufferers that they provide us with a better method of ingestion than smoking.

Just my 2C once again.

past behavior of mine was smoking pot while rx'd ritalin... you will not even notice the effects of pot no matter how hard you try... this was 10 years ago that i did this type of thing and i don't know about health risks but i do know that i couldn't get high from pot which i no longer smoke... by the way

past behavior of mine was smoking pot while rx'd ritalin... you will not even notice the effects of pot no matter how hard you try... this was 10 years ago that i did this type of thing and i don't know about health risks but i do know that i couldn't get high from pot which i no longer smoke... by the wayThat must have been some pretty poor weed my friend! :)

Yeah, I always say I no longer smoke too! And actually, it does seem to be getting a lot easier to live up to that statement the older I get! :)

That must have been some pretty poor weed my friend! :)

Yeah, I always say I no longer smoke too! And actually, it does seem to be getting a lot easier to live up to that statement the older I get! :)I'd have to agree with this statement, music man. I no longer smoke, but upon testing the theory in dispute? It is entirely possible to get high while medicated ;) and smoking negates the meds, not the other way round.
Crazy :cool:

I can't believe this thread is still going.

I was looking through my posts and when I saw this one it made me laugh.
My perspective has changed some as well, even though it was only a year ago.

Marijuana is a double edged sword, I can talk all I want about it's effectiveness but it has the one fundamental problem: it's illegal.

If you use it for self medication you can expect your dosage to change with the quality of it and then one day when you can't get any you may have a rough time.

In retrospect I have to agree with Crazy~Feet, Marijuana has it's moments but it's best to leave it behind before it gets worn out. That being said I still dislike it's being demonized and I have GREAT respect for it's usage as medication for people enduring chemotherapy, however it’s effects are to wide and variable to make it effective for treatment of AD(H)D.

I just stumbled across this thread on Google and I found it very interesting. I was recently diagnosed with the combined form of ADHD (2 weeks ago) but I have been suffering from it my entire life. I was raised by Evangelical Christians who were very anti-smoking and anti-drinking and thus had a complex about indulging in substances when I arrived at college. Of course I'd had some beers in high school but drinking was never my thing. I tried pot once in my junior year of high school but didn't feel "high" - just paranoid.

When I was in my sophomore year of college, my best friend introduced me to pot again. She, I, and our other best pal started smoking several times a month. Soon that became every day (not for them, but for me). It was so amazing! I could finally slow down all the thoughts inside of my head. It's funny, but I actually COULD focus better despite the fact that I was definitely slower and less intelligent while stoned. It was like, even though I'm 5 IQ points lower, at least I can work on something continuously without my brain skipping to another topic.

The problem was that I hated feeling dependent on the drug. I started smoking a LOT (several times a day, every day). All of my friends became people who smoked pot (or I got new friends) and everyone I met was through the drug. I had always scored poorly on report cards, but my performance grew even worse. Before it was my extreme intelligence that allowed me to skate through with B's and C's - but now I lacked any motivation.

The reason I started seeing my psychiatrist was to stop smoking pot. I've been graduated from college a little under a year now, and I'm working as an analyst for a top corporate law firm. I had been smoking every single day, and often before work. It was definitely affecting my health and I felt like such a LOSER. Everyone says that pot isn't addicting, and most of my college friends had cut way back when they began their "real lives". But I couldn't. I thought I was just weak.

It wasn't even just that. It was that I didn't WANT to be off the pot, in a way, even though every time I got high, the "voice of reason" would appear and beat my ego senseless with rage and criticism. I didn't like how my brain functions without it - the ADHD, if you will. But I didn't know I had it.

So I went to the psychiatrist and after a few sessions and extensive tests about my childhood and current activities, I was diagnosed with ADHD for the first time. I have been taking 15mg of Adderall XR for the past two weeks and my life is completely different. I broke down in the Dr's office, realizing why I smoked (self-medicating the disorder) and the reasons I couldn't/didn't want to quit. It was such a relief! I'm not an "addict" or a "junkie" - I was self-medicating a disorder.

The first week I took Adderall I still smoked every night - but I stopped at one hit! I typically smoked about $20-$40 of PRIMO weed every day, so this was a huge reduction. I was doing it out of habit - I didn't even believe I had the power in me to stop, I had quit so many times, throwing out or giving away many, many pieces, bongs, stashes, etc. only to start up the very next day. But after the one hit each night, I realized how counterproductive it was to the Adderall. It took away all of the clarity I loved about the ADHD medicine and made me feel even worse. That weekend I only took 5mg of Adderall each day and smoked a LOT (my brother, a huge stoner, was visiting and I did so to be social). Still, I didn't feel like I did before the Adderall. It just didn't bring me the same peace. It was like I discovered something better for my ADHD and the old stuff just couldn't cut it anymore.

Anyways, it's been over 7 days since my last hit of the mj. This is huge. I feel so powerful and the rush is unbelievable. I am not talking about a chemical rush from the Adderall. I am talking about an internal rush of self-esteem, because I am no longer a slave to this herb that has kept me trapped for so many years.

I'm not going to lie, I worry a lot about trading one drug for another, but I take a pretty low dose of Adderall (15mg) and I don't abuse it like I did the pot. Also, I am hoping to do behavior modification therapy so that I can improve my habits without being so dependent on the chemical changes. However, I realize that my disorder is literally a deficit and that by treating it, I am actually being more responsible for my body than leaving it untreated (my health was terrible, my finances insanely bad despite my affluent occupation as a corporate analyst, my relationships strained).

I am hoping that someone out there has information on pot leaving the body. I still don't know what effects my body is going to go through as I withdraw from the drug. I've been using VERY heavily for over three years now (barely ever a day off, SEVERAL times a day, on the weekends sometimes I would go into "couch-lock mode" - as some here on this board are calling it - for the entire Fri night - Sunday night.) I am interested to see what kind of changes will take effect. I see appetite suppression for SURE but of course that's also related to the Adderall. Same thing with sleeping (although, I have not had much problems with sleeplessness as I've seen described on these boards, in actuality I get very good sleep with my dosage - just not as long and heavy as with my comatose like pot sleep). When I've tried quitting pot before, I had night sweats, nightmares, sleeplessness, irritability, inability to concentrate (although - I do have ADHD!), headaches, and anorexia.

When can I feel TRULY "FREE" from the pot? One month? Two? I don't feel the pull of addiction from it anymore, that is for sure. I just mean in a bodily sense. When will I be back to my "pre-pot" cognitive and physical functioning? What kind of neuro-biological effects will I have? Are any permanent, or temporary? If anyone has any information I would love to hear it.

Thanks for reading, I know this is VERY long. I am just encouraged by all of your posts and I hope to spread the encouragement around.

Victoria
23 years old
rx: ADHD combined form
dx: Adderall XR 15mg

Did not read any of the posts in this thread but it seemed like a good place to
make some comments on Marijuana and ADD.

Pots has CBD and THC. CBD has more anti-anxiety effects. I have heard people
swear by pot helping their ADD. I hypothesise the mechanism is the anti-anxiety effects of CBD. Anxiety disorders will occur in 50% of ADHDers. Procrastination is related to anxiety.

1: Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2006 Dec 30;30(8):1466-71. Epub 2006 Jul 31.
Links
Anxiolytic-like effect of cannabidiol in the rat Vogel conflict test.
Moreira FA, Aguiar DC, Guimarães FS.

Department of Pharmacology, FMRP, University of São Paulo, Av Bandeirantes, 3900, 14049-900, Ribeirão Preto, SP, Brazil. farmoreira@yahoo.com.br

Cannabidiol (CBD) is a major constituent of the Cannabis sativa plant. It inhibits the anxiogenic activity of high doses of Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol and induces anxiolytic-like effects. However, the mechanisms underlying the actions of CBD are unknown. Therefore, the aim of the present study was to test the effects of CBD in the Vogel test, a widely used animal model of anxiety. In addition, it was verified if these effects would depend on benzodiazepine-receptor activation. After 24 h of water deprivation, male Wistar rats were subjected to an initial 3-min non-punished (pre-test) drinking session. This was followed by an additional 24-h period of water deprivation followed by a 3-min punished-licking session (test). Diazepam (3 mg/kg) or CBD (2.5, 5 or 10 mg/kg) were intraperitoneally injected 30 min before the test session. CBD (10 mg/kg) and diazepam had similar anticonflict effects, increasing the number of punished licks. The effect of diazepam, but not of CBD, was prevented by the benzodiazepine-receptor antagonist flumazenil (10 mg/kg). To exclude that the anticonflict effects were reflecting non-specific drug effects, we checked the effects of CBD on water consumption and nociceptive response. The drug did not interfere on the former variable in a non-punished test session. Moreover, contrary to morphine (5 mg/kg), CBD was ineffective in the tail-flick test. In conclusion, CBD induced an anticonflict effect not mediated by benzodiazepine receptors or by non-specific drug interference on nociceptive threshold or water consumption. These results reinforce the hypothesis that this cannabinoid has anxiolytic properties.

PMID: 16876926 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I've heard medical pot has a high CBD to THC ratio. Some of the negative effects of pot are associated with THC. Such as paranoid thinking.

1: Neuropharmacology. 2004 Dec;47(8):1170-9.
Links
Differential effects of THC- or CBD-rich cannabis extracts on working memory in rats.
Fadda P, Robinson L, Fratta W, Pertwee RG, Riedel G.

Department of Biomedical Science, College of Life Sciences and Medicine, University of Aberdeen, Foresterhill, Aberdeen AB25 2ZD, UK.

Cannabinoid receptors in the brain (CB(1)) take part in modulation of learning, and are particularly important for working and short-term memory. Here, we employed a delayed-matching-to-place (DMTP) task in the open-field water maze and examined the effects of cannabis plant extracts rich in either Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta(9)-THC), or rich in cannabidiol (CBD), on spatial working and short-term memory formation in rats. Delta(9)-THC-rich extracts impaired performance in the memory trial (trial 2) of the DMTP task in a dose-dependent but delay-independent manner. Deficits appeared at doses of 2 or 5 mg/kg (i.p.) at both 30 s and 4 h delays and were similar in severity compared with synthetic Delta(9)-THC. Despite considerable amounts of Delta(9)-THC present, CBD-rich extracts had no effect on spatial working/short-term memory, even at doses of up to 50 mg/kg. When given concomitantly, CBD-rich extracts did not reverse memory deficits of the additional Delta(9)-THC-rich extract. CBD-rich extracts also did not alter Delta(9)-THC-rich extract-induced catalepsy as revealed by the bar test. It appears that spatial working/short-term memory is not sensitive to CBD-rich extracts and that potentiation and antagonism of Delta(9)-THC-induced spatial memory deficits is dependent on the ratio between CBD and Delta(9)-THC.

PMID: 15567426 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Interesting that shows the memory problems from pot are more likely associated with THC not CBD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol

Some research, however, indicates that CBD can increase alertness.[3]

1: J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2004 Jun;24(3):305-13.
Links
Effect of Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol on nocturnal sleep and early-morning behavior in young adults.
Nicholson AN, Turner C, Stone BM, Robson PJ.

QinetiQ Ltd, Centre for Human Sciences, Cody Technology Park, Ively Road, Farnborough, Hampshire GU14 0LX, UK. annicholson@QinetiQ.com

The effects of cannabis extracts on nocturnal sleep, early-morning performance, memory, and sleepiness were studied in 8 healthy volunteers (4 males, 4 females; 21 to 34 years). The study was double-blind and placebo-controlled with a 4-way crossover design. The 4 treatments were placebo, 15 mg Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), 5 mg THC combined with 5 mg cannabidiol (CBD), and 15 mg THC combined with 15 mg CBD. These were formulated in 50:50 ethanol to propylene glycol and administered using an oromucosal spray during a 30-minute period from 10 pm. The electroencephalogram was recorded during the sleep period (11 pm to 7 am). Performance, sleep latency, and subjective assessments of sleepiness and mood were measured from 8:30 am (10 hours after drug administration). There were no effects of 15 mg THC on nocturnal sleep. With the concomitant administration of the drugs (5 mg THC and 5 mg CBD to 15 mg THC and 15 mg CBD), there was a decrease in stage 3 sleep, and with the higher dose combination, wakefulness was increased. The next day, with 15 mg THC, memory was impaired, sleep latency was reduced, and the subjects reported increased sleepiness and changes in mood. With the lower dose combination, reaction time was faster on the digit recall task, and with the higher dose combination, subjects reported increased sleepiness and changes in mood. Fifteen milligrams THC would appear to be sedative, while 15 mg CBD appears to have alerting properties as it increased awake activity during sleep and counteracted the residual sedative activity of 15 mg THC.

PMID: 15118485 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Don't forget cannabis also causes Anxiety problems with chronic use :)

My advice is keep it to the weekends and only smoke small amounts if you have to smoke at all. ADDers don't need the side effects of laziness, bad concentration, irritablily, anxiety, decreased cognitive abilities, tiredness etc. etc. that cannabis is known to cause.

My advice is to not use it at all.

ADDers should not use THC and they should not smoke, period.

To have an already compromised brain function -- and then to add cannabis [or alcohol, or meth or whatever chemical that is recreational] to the mix is really a form of _self sabotage_.

Like, why not just go smash your head on the wall a bunch of times and complain about that too?? That's about how helpful to your brain's function smoking dope is...

I find that I have come to resent people when they complain that they have brain problems [like ADD] who go on to mention that they want to keep using drugs.

Cannabis messes up brains. (And so does smoking _anything_, BTW. )

I just really want to say 'get real'.

Don't forget cannabis also causes Anxiety problems with chronic use :)


Thats a THC side effect not CBD.

1: Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2007 May;191(4):867-77. Epub 2007 Jan 9.
Links
Differential anxiogenic, aversive, and locomotor effects of THC in adolescent and adult rats.
Schramm-Sapyta NL, Cha YM, Chaudhry S, Wilson WA, Swartzwelder HS, Kuhn CM.

Department of Pharmacology and Cancer Biology, Duke University Medical Center, Room 100B Research Park Bldg 2, P.O. Box 3813, Durham, NC 27710, USA.

RATIONALE: Unpleasant side effects of drugs of abuse often limit their repeated use; however, such effects may be attenuated in adolescents compared to adults. OBJECTIVES: We investigated whether the anxiogenic, aversive, or locomotor effects of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)differ between adolescent and adult rats. METHODS: We used the elevated plus maze (EPM) and light-dark tests of anxiety, the conditioned taste aversion and conditioned place aversion (CPA) tests of generalized aversion, and measures of stress hormone levels in serum to examine effects of THC in adolescent and adult rats. Locomotor activity was also recorded in the EPM, light-dark task, and CPA association sessions. RESULTS: In the EPM and light-dark tasks, THC was anxiogenic in both age groups, but the drug was more anxiogenic in adults than in adolescents. In the place and taste aversion tasks, THC was aversive in both ages, and at 1.25 and 5 mg/kg, was more aversive in adults than in adolescents. The locomotor response to THC, as measured in the anxiety tasks and CPA, affected adults more than adolescents. Multiple measures revealed a locomotor-decreasing effect in adults, whereas some measures suggested a small locomotor-increasing effect in adolescent rats. CONCLUSIONS: These results suggest that THC can have greater anxiogenic, aversive, and locomotor-reducing effects in adult rats than in adolescent rats. These findings suggest an explanation for reduced marijuana use in adult humans compared to teenagers.

PMID: 17211649 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Anxiogenic means anxiety inducing.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:tI3D15K6HxcJ:www.nida.nih.gov/whatsnew/meetings/apa/ppt/budney.ppt+procrastination+marijuana&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=60&gl=us

Problems Associated with Marijuana
(MTP Study, 2000)

Feeling Bad or Guilty 90%

Low Energy Level 86%

Procrastination 86%

Memory loss 76%

Low productivity 75%

Low self-esteem/confidence 70%

Interpersonal 58%

Financial 49%

Family 44%

"Feeling Bad or Guilty" that consistent with the paranoia associated with THC use. "Memory loss" as stated before maybe more THC related. Short term memory loss can mirror inattention. Next question
is does THC play the dominate role in the other issues such as "low productivity" and procrastination? Since there is an association between anxiety and procrastination(productivity is associated with procrastination) and
THC is anxiogenic and CDB is anxiolytic clearly THC is the problem.

So people who objectively say pot has helped their ADHD must have some
variable response to CBD and THC or they are smoking pot that is relatively high in CBD and low in THC. Among the variable responses could include rapid tolerance to THC but not CBD. It does mean individal reports pro or con on the
use of non-standardized pot for ADHD is of little value to a person wanting to know how pot may apply to them.

If you want reefer, that's all you get.

....... It will take your modivation away, and make your adhd worse.

Some interesting research

"High-resolution brain SPECT imaging of marijuana smokers with AD/HD"

-http://www.amenclinics.com/bp/abstracts/abstract_detail.php?abstractID=8

You can also compare brain SPECT before and after ADHD Meds
http://amenclinics.com/bp/atlas/ch16.php

Effects of Marijuana

http://amenclinics.com/bp/atlas/ch15.php

Thats a THC side effect not CBD.


But there's no way to seperate the THC and CBD's is there? Some strains of cannabis can have more CBD but the THC is still there.

But there's no way to seperate the THC and CBD's is there? Some strains of cannabis can have more CBD but the THC is still there.

Industrially it would be trival to produce pure CBD. Solvent extract of the plant and seperation by chromtography.

http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/quick/csustan/chrom.gif

They call it "dope" for a reason... you _are_ what you smoke. ;)

for me i used to smoke a ton then i realized i couldnt put a sentence together so i stopped. a few months later i smoked once and amazingly it fixed my asthma lol. so i smoke after tests now (it works out b/c my asthma comes back between 2-3 weeks and i have tests every 2-3 weeks). normal asthma meds don't work nearly as well, they're more expensive, and i have touch and go asthma so it really depends on the weather. so im thinking about getting a vaporizer so it fixes my asthma and doesnt destroy my lungs.

definitely negates the add meds (adderall for me) if you smoke too much (i figured that out over spring break)

I use to never smoke, but one summer I got into it heavily. I didn't take adderall, mainly cuz I was in summer with minimal responsibilities and I would smoke 5 days out of the week. I would have great focus and a lot of things would make more sense, everything seemed to slow down and organize into my mind a whole lot better. However, there were significant diminishing returns after 3-4 months. When I we back to school I started taking adderall. I definitely noticed adderall's effect was greatly dampened. That focused calm feeling wasn't the same and the productive time period of adderall was greatly reduced. This probably happened because my body compensated for the pot usage and lowered essential chems or receptors in my brain.

In short: Smoking pot will decrease the effects of Adderall for a long time.

Don't mix them, it makes both work differently and in my opinion less effectively. I mixed my daily doses of Dexedrine with cannabis for about two months. It just drains you and eventually you'll be where I am now. Forced to detox from cannabis (and been halving my dex doses because they simply don't work properly anymore) and feeling mentally and physically exhausted. It takes weeks to get over this sort of thing. If you are going to use both, use them seperately, and I mean by days, not hours...

Hey guys. Just a question to anyone who smoked weed before diagnosis or Meds. Does anyone get way too high now?....I don't know what it is but I am actually glad it has happened to me. Before kids I would smoke weed & do anything. I was chronic for almost 20 yrs. Almost never really got too high after a while just smoked with hubby out of habit & craving. Even though I quit during pregnancy I did begin to smoke again after I stopped breast feeding. Although not even 1/2 what I used to. & Now I find if I smoke while I am on meds,(40 mg Generic ritalin sr)I just mid as well not even take the meds. I get so Stupid! I dont remember being that high when I first started smoking weed. Is it the meds making the weed stronger ?or is it my body changing? or is it that before I was on meds was I just in such a Life daze that I didn't notice the weed high? Any input would be appreciated! Even though I am way to busy now to smoke chronically I still look forward to when everyone is in bed & I can relax with a puff (instead of a glass of wine..not much of a drinker!)
<!-- / message --><!-- controls -->http://www.addforums.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

I've got a confession :( I recently 'relapsed' while around some old 'friends'

Marijuana really screws with my moods and messes up my treatment for ADD with Dexedrine. I've been moody, a tiny bit paranoid, more likely to rant and just generally slow for the last week. It's nothing compared to a methamphetamine or opiate addiction but it's my personal weakness.

The problem is how much fun I seem to have while stoned. Sitting around laughing my **** off with old friends while making stupid jokes is the best...music sounds better and I seem to get into movies and video games much more.

I guess I've just got to remember how it messes up my progress in work and studying and how it kills my motivation :( (edit - It screws up things socially for me aswell, almost forgot. doh!)


/end rant

Mom of Twins -

Yeah. I've been getting much more intoxicated from lower amounts ever since I started my treatment for ADD. It's a much more tripped out clean feeling. however - my tolerance was huge before meds from smoking ridiculous amounts. It's been a long time since I've indulged in the warm fuzzy :o

I saw comment #51 go by and resisted commenting, but now I caved in.

I don't think everyone has the same response to grass that I do, but I sure see a lot of similarities within the ADHD community to my experience.

I used to smoke a lot, but not now. The farther I get from it the less I'm a fan. It's the most destructive thing I can do in regards to my efforts to cope with who I am. Ultimately it helps destroy any positive self image I might have and it breaks down my self esteem. Without those things I'm lost.

The last few years have not been easy, but the way I feel about myself has changed and even I notice it's better. That makes life a whole lot richer for me in ways dope can't even begin to touch. It's easier to do things that are good for me in any number of ways and I don't even have to try.

Grass is toxic to my brain and makes it really tough to do anything except let my freak flag fly. I don't need much help in that department when I'm straight. :P heh
Ian

It's true, it unfortunately is so therapuetic for us but also so harmful for our brains, one of my mental health workers told me this and it has much merit. I am open with them about my cannabis use...when it is a problem. Been sober just over 3 weeks now! Or is it 4 now... lol look what it does to my time perception memory... just shot.

Negatives of cannabis for ME:
- less motivation (-normal)
- over time (this time is less and less the more I smoke) it increases anxiety of all sorts.
- working memory worsened (-normal)
- recall memory worsened (-normal)
- on Dex, more sedating, less physical activity (without dex, acts like stimulant and promotes physical exercise...but not happening anymore as I need dex to get better)
- promotes extremely poor diet
- impulsivity worsened (-normal) (yes this is therapuetic to me, but not to my success in this society)
- inattention worsened x10 (-normal)

can't focus anymore, don't want to remember.

Mincan.
You sure seem to have a clear look at the issues. I still tend to beat myself up a bit over some of the damage done, but the more I invest in "doing" the more resilient I become. The biggest pay off for me so far has been that my daughter, that is so much like me, is not travelling the same self destructive path I did.

She's 14 now. I'm able to sleep well knowing I have passed on less of the negative stuff that gets passed on from generation to generation and I know that the buck as stopped with me on a lot of issues. For that I can be grateful.
Fight!

Thank You Guys for all of the input. I am really glad I came across this thread. I have wanted to quit so many times for so many reasons, but now I see how it messes with my meds. I am hoping this will help me kick the habit,I don't enjoy the high the same anymore anyway. Now my 2nd problem,I am pretty sure My hubby is ADHD without diagnosis but he has a real BAD addicion to weed & is very stuborn. He comes from a long family history of alcoholics...but he prefers weed to booze. Although since experiencing some real life problems he wants to drink more often. I have been willing to cut back or quit many times but he has never since the day we met....& it has been very dulling on our financial growth. It may seem childish but even times when I wanted to quit I didnt because I felt if he was gonna still spend "OUR" money then I want too get something out of it too. I am really afraid that if I quit & he wont ....I am SCARED! I love him but I cant get him to see he needs help. We were together 9 yrs with no kids or resposibilities but work & bills.We hopefully will grow through this together but what if it just proves we want different things from life. I just hope I can have my **** together by then if that happens ..because right now I think I would crumble! Sorry this went a bit of topic (more for relationships thread) but the first problem is the WEED. For me & him...lucky for me I have my diagnosis & want to grow! His grandparents both died drinking & his dad still drinks. I am so afraid it will altimately be his decision....WEED or his Family.I know he loves us both but the weed he has had longer than Me or the kids!!!! All I know is I have to try to be the best Mom I can. HOLY CRAP.....this is gonna be a bumpy journey!

End of rant!

I was baked for about 6-7 years straight and I can say it did nothing for my ADD, not in a good way.

It was extremely therapeutic as far as my anxiety while I was actually high, but it did nothing to help me cope with my actual problems or construct a life that was helpful or uplifting for others. I quit because my husband was not a fan and I promised him I would, and I didn't want to be a liar.

I had to stop hanging out with my stoner friends because the temptation was way too strong. Having been through a LOT since I quit, I can say if I'd had access to it, despite my strong reasons not to, I'm pretty sure I would have lapsed.

I even have dreams where I'm smoking and enjoying it but feeling horribly guilty that I broke my promise to my God, my husband, and to myself. I was highly addicted, regardless of whether it's a physical or not, it was a powerful emotional/mental addiction.

I feel much clearer, better, and lighter, and my thinking is much clearer, although my depression is worse than it was before. Smoking definitely temporarily lifted my depression, but left me high and dry because I didn't develop the strength and the coping skills to deal with and face my problems.

I have carried a heavy load since quitting and it has been a challenge, but without the weed as a crutch (which for me, it was) I feel better about myself and coping with things without drugs (well, unless you count candy, but that's a whole 'nother story, lol).