My friend Jess is on her first 7 months of sobriety and has been seeing a fellow AA member for over 6 months. Lately, he's not been going to meeting's, not calling her when he promise's or shows up acting funny and smelling like he's drank his cologne.

Someone tell me she is in denial and is gonna wisen up real soon before he drags her down with him. She keeps asking me for advice because I have the uncanny ability to read people I would normally be very honest to the point of brutal but Jess is special she's the kid sister I alway's wanted, she's sensitive and I'm afraid this "donkey butt" is gonna set her back. So, I just ask what do you think, hmmmmm were do you think he was, what do you think he was doing. I'm frustrated as heck and want to tell her just kick him to the curb.

Oh biy, that's a tough one. Has she asked him if he's been drinking? I think if she suspects him of drinking its for the best to distance yourself from people that are drinking when you're only sober 7 months. Its probably a really sensitive time frame.

Its good that you are there for your friend and if she wants your advice than you should give it to her. Good luck!

Enabling her denial won't help her in the end. I know you'd like to protect those close to you from cold, hard reality but in the end whether she denies it or not, cold, hard reality can still bite her on the butt... I'd sit her down and try to break it firmly but gently... true friends tell each other the truth IMNSHO...

Futs I agree with the good comments so far. Many treatment centres are quite clear about staying away from new relationships for the first year or sometimes two years of sobriety. So her actions of going into a new relationship so soon has proved for most to be a bad idea.

I contend that recovery is best done in the company of others travelling a similar road. Although your relationship and intent with your young friend is admirable, it's not likely the best thing for your friend to be relying more heavily on you than on her group, sponsor and meetings.

Your role and how to be most effective with addicts and what pitfalls to watch for are best described by with the good folks of Alanon unless you are an addict yourself.

Try and remember that she's at least as much a part of whatever mistakes are going on with her relationship as the boyfriend is. What do you suppose it is in her that would make a fellow like him attractive to her? I'm just being rhetorical here of course. I'm just trying to make the point that although she may be a sweet kid, she's an addict like all addicts.

For me, insanity, is doing the same thing over and over expecting the results to be different. Her patterns of relationships likely repeat this pattern that she's in now and prefers the drama to the cold facts of change. Maybe I'm wrong but I sure have seen this routine described often enough to know that it's a possibility.

Forgive my frankness please. Thanks for posting this. Your honesty is appreciated.

I'm the only one I can change. ian

Futs I will chime in too. I think the advice everyone else has given you is right on. I think telling her the facts is the best thing! Sugar coating things just makes it harder to deal with when reallity sets in.

Of course, if she is in denial, she may cut you off as a friend if you insist on telling her the truth... :(

Hello, my name is Cary and I'm an addict.

I think Ian said it all.

Thanks for letting me share.

Calm is dead right when he says that she may kiss you off in anger if you try to level with her.

The reality is that for addicts you really can't tell them anthing meaningful, especially early on. My first year was a complete washout! We just don't get it in the beginning and there we are with all that got and kept us addicts and no booze. A dry drunk is a potent source of pain.

The most powerful tool at your disposal is your own example in whatever you do not your words. But in the big ship of things it's with other addicts that she has the best chance of seeing herself reflected clearly enough to begin to hear who she really is. If the examples around her are healthy and honest and all has gone well, she may come to the point that she begins asking herself how she can get some of that good news for herself.

I was the last to know about anything that might have pertained to sensible courses of action and a sympathetic ear only slowed down my willingness to smell the coffee. Once I started to work the steps and the program I found far more support from the people who had what I wanted in the program.

I'm so sorry Futs. I sounds like this is telling you things you don't want to hear. You are a good person for caring for her and you are well meaning I know. I really don't mean to pee in your cornflakes. I know I have contradicted you on some of this type of discussion before but please know this isn't a personal attack or judgement on you in any way.

In working with newcomers it is only my experience, strength and hope that it's suggested I offer. By telling what it was like, what happened and what it's like now is the avenue most suggested in the literature to help. It's a program of attraction rather than promotion. I can't give away what I haven't got myself and "advice" is not proved to work. I hope you can forgive me being so frank.

You might want to find some "open" meetings that allow you to be there with her. Often the speakers are tremendous. You might find it highly variable from meeting to meeting but know that there are some truly inspired speakers within AA or whatever 12 step group she's into so keep trying.

I would also suggest hitting a few local Alanon meetings on your own and try and get your head around what some of the old timers there have to offer. How we addicts deal with things sometimes contradicts peoples instincts but it is the best known help for addicts and the same is true about friends of addicts in Alanon.

Gratitude is the attitude.
ian

I guess I have a lot of trouble just sitting back and watching someone I care about being hurt. Can I hide in a dark alley and beat him up with wet noodles? or is that breaking your rules as well?

I'm sorry Ian I hear what your saying but my reaction is not very nice to me...it's just another secret society that I couldn't possibly understand well maybe you haven't really paid attention to anything I have said.

I grew up in an abusive battle ground of alcoholics, fought for food, fought for survival, fought for me. When I went off to college for two years I drank and I drank for one thing...to get drunk, to forget, to stop feeling anything, everything. So, I wasn't diagnosed with actual alcoholism but I do have some experiance.

The next problem is the whole post is about a relationship and has nothing to do with alcohol I've had a few of those as well too.

NO I'm not mad at your honesty because your probably right...I hate that I have to just sit by and watch her hurt, I HATE being powerless to make the road easier, to help her find her self esteem and self worth, to believe in herself. I don't know how I did it, stopped drinking, found myself, forgave, moved on but I did and she can too I just don't know how.

Like I said I'm not mad at anyone's replies just the whole helpless thing. Really SUCKS ya know?

Hey Futs this might be a little forward but you ask. My true freinds tell me the truth even when it is what I don't want to hear.

No secrets Futs. None. The big book is very easy to come by. The meetings are open to all that have a desire to stop drinking. It sounds like you qualify by your discription. Many places have "open" meetings frequently for all who are curious regardless of everything else. No funny handshakes, nada. Just a commitment to honesty and a living practise of faith. Not very fashionable but it works if you work it.

You are no more helpless than you let yourself be. You are a living example of what's right and good. That example will likely be the message that your friend awakens to if at all.

I hate submitting control to a higher power. But God or whatever, is often better suited to deal with some situations than I am. I have to practice my program. My program is best summed up in a prayer that I must have repeated ten thousand times during my first year as I began to practise a faith in something greater than myself by letting go of emotions like you describe. It's called the serenity prayer. Maybe you know it.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change.

The courage to change the things I can.

And wisdom to know the difference.

It's really simple. I need things really simple or I just don't get it. Fortunately I got this one right in the middle of my forehead like a half pound ball peen hammer. But talk is cheap and it's all in the doing so I best get my butt to bed so I can continue to practise tomorrow.
ian

WOW! Ian what a witch I was...I'm sorry I just hate the hopeless feeling I get sometimes when I talk with Jess it's like watching her fall off a cliff...I see it coming but am powerless to stop it. Who gets the blame? by now I'm sure you know I'll try and carry more then my fair share.

But, I did go against your advice and told her that if it smells like **** it's probably ****.

I love the witch in you! Your spark and humour lighten my days more often than you know.
ian

Futs

I have read the entire posts here

I recognise that you love and care for your friend

What if this was your Son or Daughter

In my case my Son

Not living with an alcholic

but same scenario where I can only sit by and watch

as the advise is not wanted or listened to , and ends up causing tension

So I sit here and wait for his World to fall apart again

and wonder

"How many Times Does This Have To Happen To Him Before He Wakes Up"



Trust Me Futs
I feel your Pain


Ian, I have read many fine words in your posts that have not made the situation any easier, but it has given me thoughts to think about when I just want to scream outloud because I am so powerless to help him "See The Light" and "Come Out Of The Fog"

I think it all comes down to honesty...Jess asked for my honest opinion...I gave it to her now my opinion is no longer mine; but, her's and what she does with it is her business I've done what I can for now. Now, I just sit back and wait for the fall out and hope I know were all the pieces fit.

Futs I just read your last reply after going through all the postings on this. I believe what you did was right. This is a little off topic but I have to say it to get my point across.

I have a friend who is going through an awful divorce and I have been hearing about all of her problems and what he has done to the point it has worn me out. It has effected my sleep, my work and what little emotional stability I have. After discussing it with someone they gave me a quote which I wanted to share with you. Once I heard this quote, I was so relieved and felt such a burdern of relief. You see, I care so much for her that I was trying to solve her problems for her and was so frustrated because she would not listen. You can only do so much and what you did was tell her how you felt.......the rest is up to her. But let me share the quote:

The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not and never persist in trying to set people right "Hannah Whitall Smith"

That quote is a beauty.. thanks EB

Yes, it was nicely put...I do have good news though Jess kicked the bum to the street *skid, skid, bonk* I've noticed something different about her lately...we lost another friend in common to drinking and really stupid choices once again. It seems to have strengthened her resolve even more to make a better life. I helped her move into her own apartment which is really scarry for her but I feel she has the courage and strength and stamina for the long haul and will be fine. GO JESS GO! Yes, she does call me momma lol