View Full Version : Is that antisocial disorder or what?


Debra Morgen
11-07-10, 08:58 PM
Hello

I hope your guys may help me to figure something out.

Sometimes I think I might have a antisocial disorder, but some of the symptoms didn't fit, or didn't fit in the way it's described.

Maybe it's easier when I explain it by the symtoms, so, here we go:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.

I do conform on social norms and behave lawful, but not with respect. I do so, because I don't want to bother with police and I try to fit in, so if I don't behave lawful, people might see that I'm some kind of fake.
This alone is not the reason why I suspect me as an antisocial disorder person, it's the summary, you will see.

deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

Well, I'm not deceitful, but I have no problem to lie if it's useful for me, I don't conning people because I don't have the perversence and interest to do so, most people are just not worth, not important enough, why should I invest some strengh of mine to conning people?
So I don't do it.

impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

Well, my ADD does something to this, I'm already impulsive and even with medication it's hard to think a plan to an end.
I managed since the age of 11 not to expolde and do someone physical harm, because I know, inside of me there is a point and if I come to this I could easely kill someone, or, at least, try to.
Even if it began as a game or a tiff.
And as I already turned out, I don't want the authority (goverment) make looking at me, I rather like to stay in the shadows.
So self-control becomes my strongest ability.

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
Well, I know from my inside fights against myself that I could be very easy irritated and aggressiv, but my self-control prevent me for let this get out.
So I'm not known as a women who is agressiv, but sometimes people near me get suspicious about my hidden irritability.


reckless disregard for safety of self or others

No risk no fun, is the first thing that cross my mind by that symptom describtion.
If I want to do something, I do.
If I get hurt, well, I don't like to get hurt, but I don't think about it, if other's get hurt, well, I doubt that I would notice it.
And if, well, I'm sorry but world isn't a safe place, is it?
And if that was the way I get something I want, it's bad luck for them, why, the heck should I bother with that?

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations

Well, I feel some responsibility, but only to myself.
It's nessacary that I come to the conclusion that's in my own interest, only then I take the responsibility.
Not because someone say so.

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

I haven't feel any remorse yet. If it's in my interest I'm capable to do all things I have to.
I live an ordinary life, I'm married, have a small house, go to work, but all this just because I get no other chances.
I never get to know criminal people, if I met some, I might change my life completly, if they assure me I won't get caught.
I know for sure if kill someone will get me a huge advantage, I could do it and I wouldn't feel any remorse.

I know, under some circumstances we all may capable of murder, fight a beating husband back and kill him, snap over or something like that, but what I mean is coldblooded murder, just because it make some sense to me.
Sometimes I think the only reason I havn't done it yet is just because I couldn't think of a way I don't get caught.

There's just one thing I'm really scared of and that's what I might capable to do if I lose my self-control or find a way to get away with murder.

I don't steal, I earn enough to buy what I want but if I don't have the money and I feel safe enough, I would steal, without any remorse or doubt.

See, that's why I think I'm antisocial, I care just for one thing, my safety, no one should be aware that I'm not alike most people, maybe my ADD makes me so.
I always know that I was different I learn to hide it, I learn to fool the other's and I only fear that poeple might see me as I really am, and I don't know what they might see, but it's not the nice women I pretend to be.

I know you can't say if I'm antisocial or not, I know I should ask a shrink, but I also know if I tell that a shrink and he insist on a therapie, I wouldn't do it.
And just maybe he could force me to therapie and I get discovered, my greatest fear, remember ;) I can't risk it!

So why I write this here, well maybe I just want to know somebody, maybe I'm more narcissistic then antisocial, maybe I just need those toughts to get rid of me by writing it down, maybe I just want to see your reactions, maybe all those reason together or none of that, let's just see where this leed me and you.

Uh, where's something more you need to know about me, people who know me, describe my as a helpful and very nice person, but this also is just for my pleasure, I like reading people, often I can easaly see what they're going through and why and it's fun to tell them that, see their awe in their eyes, thankful I sloved their problems or give them some time and hear them out.
But it's nothing more than a game to me, a pleasure, it keeps my mind busy and so I don't have to think in circles about me (that's deffo useless!)

best regards

Debra

PS: usually I correct my text, but not today, so please keep in mind, english isn't my native language and I'm sure, even if I typed some words wrong or chose funny expression, you're be able to understand me.

Sandy4957
11-07-10, 09:37 PM
Debra,

I'm not a psychologist. I'm a lawyer. But I've represented a number of antisocial folks. And yes, you sound antisocial to me.

What's interesting to me, though, is why you would care? If you're antisocial, why ruminate on that fact?

That's a rhetorical question. There was another person who posted on these forums who said that she had been diagnosed as a sociopath, and yet, here she was posting her "real" self. It was a paradox.

But the short answer to your question is that, yes, your post "feels" like something that my antisocial clients would say.

Debra Morgen
11-07-10, 09:58 PM
Hi Sandy

Thank you for your candid answer, it give me some strange kind of pleasure, I'm not sure what kind of pleasure it might be. I'm a little bit puzzled about that feeling....

I know it was a rethorical question, but I like to answer it anyway.
You're right, I don't care if I'm antisocial or not, I just like to know what I'm dealing with.
If I would know for sure I'm antisocial, I would deny any treatment cause I don't feel sick, I just try to figure out what kind of person other may call me.
I think I'm just fine.

On the other hand I feel sick without my ADD treatment and medication, that's something I want to change but it have nearly nothing to do with the thought I wrote down in this thread.

Again, thank you for your answer,

best regards

Debra

Debra Morgen
11-08-10, 06:34 AM
Hello

Now I sort out what kind of feeling Sandys reply make me feel.

It's relief.

As I understand her post, it is possible to be an antisocial disorder personalitiy and live a normal life. Or maybe it's just that I want to read out of it, I don't know.

'Cause that's what puzzled me, how can I fit in for so many symptoms without being a "monster".
You know, reading about antisocial persons makes me think they're all apointed to become some kind of serialkiller or homicidal maniac.
This is still a possibility but not likely as long as I keep my self-control, so, as long as I stay in my ambience I should be fine, shouldn't I?

best regards

Debra

Sandy4957
11-08-10, 03:17 PM
Ha! Well, unfortunately I represented antisocial folks as a public defender. :eek:

But you're right that there are certainly law-abiding antisocial folks out there. The diagnosis isn't a basis on which to lock someone up and throw away the key. You just have to be mindful of the need to conform to social norms for your own sake (as opposed to desiring to conform because of an inner desire to "fit in."). That means that you'll have to consciously study social norms a little more because conformance won't come as naturally as it does for those without the personality disorder.

In my experience, even fairly strongly antisocial folks can be perfectly pleasant to deal with so long as there are no stressors. It's the stressors that pull out their antisocial natures and make it a little more difficult to "get along" with them. But even then, it's perfectly workable. It just requires that the non-antisocial person be mindful of boundaries, because the antisocial person will step right over them without recognizing that fact.

Debra Morgen
11-08-10, 11:14 PM
Hello Sandy

Every free minute I thought about this thread, why did I write it, should I write more, should I explain how I feel, describe my way of thinking, would anyone be interested in and does it any good to me?

Actualy, there's one thing I'm really good at and that is to bring a matter down to the simple question, is it useful to me or not. ( I think this is the only question that matter ever and really everything and everyone can be reduced to it)
Well, it wasn't easy to find out if it's useful or not, but I figured it out (as I do always)

It's not useful to explain anything more about me until someone ask specific questions.
If someone ask me something it's a new situation and need to be reviewed.
But it's useful to let you know you helped me a lot.

But, I guess, you wouldn't like the reason why I find it useful and nearly 30 years of pretending (first 11 years of my life I don't recall pretty much) force me to stop here, no need to hurt your feelings, so let's leave it here, you were useful!

And if it's any worth, I don't think I would ever snap, of course, if there are some stressors I can't handle, snapping is a possibility, but such circumstances are very unlikely.

See, maybe being a antisocial personality is much more comforting than thinking I'm some kind of ET ;)
I know some ADD:er make the experience to see themself like some kind of ET, an alien, not from earth, but most of them (all, as much as I knew) have times they don't feel this way, they have, even if they're small, episodes they're really fit in.

Sometimes it need treatment and medication, but finally they have those episodes, most of them would say, they have episodes of "not fitting in", of feeling like an alien.
Well, I never felt that way, I never picture me as a human being, mabe I did it in my childhood, but I don't remember that.

Look what I have done!
I explained a lot and so I told you (and all the other's here) much more I was going to tell as I began this post, well, I don't care, at least, it's not important.

best regards

Debra

Mignon
11-18-10, 12:59 PM
Debra,

I debated about commenting because it sounds like you're at peace with yourself and I am not a mental health professional. But I wonder if you're curious about what a professional would say, and that's part of why you posted here? The thing is, what you describe sounds like other things as well (sound familiar?). For example, disassociation or prolonged depersonalization - which unlike so called sociopathy are not personality disorders I don't think. But check me on that!

It's just that I for one would be curious in your shoes, wanting to know for sure if that default experience is something to embrace and accept or something that can be explored and worked through. Antisocial or no, dispelling that inner conflict and getting more our of the life you have would be the intended outcome either way.

Debra Morgen
11-18-10, 07:31 PM
Hello Mignon

Yes, I'm curious about what a proffesional would say, but I don't want to meet and discuss this topic with one, form some reason.
What if he (or she) insist on a work out?

I have my needs, my MPH for example, I live in peace because I worked out how to live a "normal" life with ADD and MPH help me make it, you know?

What if those professional comes to the conclusion I should be treated and if I don't want it, they take the MPH away?
I know, it's paranoia, but nevertheless a strong feeling, you know?

You should know, bfore I get my ADD diagnosis I got some treatments by different therapists and some try to convince me about some coclusions they made but I knew, they were wrong, but they force me to give in, you know?
So I don't trust them anymore.

Well, I check other personality disorders as well and some other (all I could found) disease, for example: narcissism, bipolar disorder and the two you named, disassocation and depersonalization, too

You're right, some symptomes fit too, but I found the most consent in anti social disorder, even though I'm very social on first sight, but deep in side me, I'm not really.
Not the way "normal" people are, I guess.

Well, I suppose sometimes I feel the need to define myself to my bone and being in such a mood I wrote this topic.

I'm a control freak, I like to lable everything, even.....no, especially myself!

But thank you for your thoughts!

best regards

Debra

Mignon
11-19-10, 07:44 AM
Debra,

Your posts have got me Googling for sure. Kate Simon - former Harvard Medical School instructor and author of The Sociopath Next Door - has a quick criteria for sociopathy (or rather, APD); a person who lacks a conscience. Not, someone who can override or block theirs. Not someone who only has compassion for animals.

There are many interesting thoughts about it, but let's just say that interviews with Kate Simon and her book I imagine are quite fascinating. I don't know if I'm allowed to post the link, but she did a good interview with interview magazine and it is online.

Debra, if you ever do get curious enough about a proper cut - and - run evaluation, I imagine it could be done. In the United States at least, the medical patient has many rights. No one could coerce you into unwanted treatment, medical journal write - ups, monitoring or "report" you as it's not illegal to lack a conscience and a cash paying client could even request to be evaluated under an alias. You would not "owe" the professional anything but a fee. This is easier done at a private practice rather than a hospital or government clinic. Things may be different in Germany.

Besides, an experienced medical professional has seen it all and is blase. Also, around 1 in 25 people are running around without a conscience.

Debra Morgen
11-22-10, 07:53 PM
Hello Mignon

Thank you for your interesting post!

I will google Kate Simons, but not yet.

Because, I come to another conclusion about me that probably could explain why I think I could be an antisocial person or "suffer" on antisocial disorder, whatever, I would like to explain my thoughts about that, if you don't mind.

As I wrote here before, I become very self-controlled since the age of 11.
Now I get treatment with MPH for my ADD and all things, all emotions and all behavior becomes so much clearer to me.
And of course I began to analyze myself.

That's how I come to the idea I could "suffer" on some "mind-illness" else and that antisocial disorder fits most of my "irregular" emotions and way of thinking, you know?

But now I think I realized that I create my own reality, my universe.
I interact with other "universes" so called people, but I don't get into their imagine of their reality, I just get in touch, it's hard to explain it, but imagine we're all our own universes, we come close, we even touch one another but we never really share the same universe, you know?

And as the "Goddess" of my universe, any important thing is tied to me and only me, of course, it's MY universe, who else should things tied to? There's no one but me.

BUT, every other person is a personal universe to and most people never think the way I do, they concentrate on the intersection all universe in touch share.
They don't look this close to their own universe, the part that is closed to everyone but themselves.
But I do, I look very close and so I get a little irritated, because most people wouldn't even understand how someone could take such a close look.
That differs me again from most people, I guess.

Well, coming to an end, I think maybe I'm as "normal" as everyone, or at least as every ADD:er, I probably take a too close look to my innermost existence, maybe soul.

But this consideration is still in progress, maybe I will change my thinking of me again, who knows?

Btw, in germany it should be "safe" to go to a shrink and ask what he think, but I'm still a little bit paranoid and after so many "mind-games" with psychologist, I'm bored and tired discussing with them anything, often they're so certain of their first assumption that they won't hear anything that doesn't fit, they play down everything that doesn't support their assumption.
It shouldn't be this way, but too often it is!

There are only a few real good psychologist who stay always open in their thinking, to rare for my taste and I don't want to waste time searching for them, it's too exhausting and the topic isn't important enough.

best regards

Debra