View Full Version : *FRIEND HAS LOST MIND!*Do psychologists know about hormones and neurotransmitters?


Carth
12-31-10, 09:01 PM
Like the subject states. LOL

Do THEY know about hormones AND neurotransmitters like the way a psychiatrist knows?

Because on Wednesday, me and a friend are meeting up with a friend there who has lost their damn mind! They have gone psycho.

And WE have his test results. He is low in the following....


Calcium
Vitamin D
Vitamin B12
Magnesium
Estrogen
Progesterone
Testosterone
DHEA
T3
HIGH in Prolactin


Neurotransmitter test said he was low in the following....

Serotonin
Dopamine
HIGH in Norepiniphrine



We are trying to convince this ******* that he is LOCO!!! But he won't budge and instead calls US crazy! LOL

Will the psychologist know how to read these tests we have? Does he know about hormones and neurotransmitters etc etc?

Or are we about to go waste our time with this psychologist?

ginniebean
12-31-10, 09:07 PM
Yes you are about to waste your time and his. You may have results but unless they are empircally verified and recognised then you essentially have nothing but a collection of beliefs in whatever system spits out these results.


Wait! Are you trying to convince your friend that he's lost his mind?

anonymouslyadd
12-31-10, 09:39 PM
Psychiatrists are trained medically meaning they have gone to medical school. Psychologists have different training. They can't prescribe mades and should be used for upper level counseling only.

mctavish23
12-31-10, 10:21 PM
No, they won't know dick.

However, none of those data are diagnostic.

Sooo, does my knowing that transform the question into an instant oxymoron?

Not really, because it's still not diagnostic and there's at least a 60 % chance

they'll still be a dick (subjectively speaking):p

Happy New Year

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Abi
12-31-10, 10:26 PM
5HT / Da / Ne levels in the bloodstream are only loosely correlated with those in the brain.

Where did he get those tests done?

What symptoms does your friend have?

Has he seen a GP or psychiatrist?

Carth
01-01-11, 02:54 AM
Yes you are about to waste your time and his. You may have results but unless they are empircally verified and recognised then you essentially have nothing but a collection of beliefs in whatever system spits out these results.


Wait! Are you trying to convince your friend that he's lost his mind?


All the things he does and says are CRAZY!!! They really are. Not an opinion. They really are!

And when he went to endocrinologist to get blood work on hormones and vitamins. All of the (except prolactin which is very high) shows up very low.

And for neurotransmitters he went here...http://www.neurogistics.com/TheProgram/index.asp#Cost

I forgot to mention that the guy smokes weed everyday! Takes 70mgs Vyvanse EVERYDAY! Sleeps very little and poorly. Smokes cigs from time to time. And drinks on the weekends. Also eats poorly. And doesn't do exercise.

Convinced?

Carth
01-01-11, 02:57 AM
No, they won't know dick.

However, none of those data are diagnostic.

Sooo, does my knowing that transform the question into an instant oxymoron?

Not really, because it's still not diagnostic and there's at least a 60 % chance

they'll still be a dick (subjectively speaking):p

Happy New Year

tc



mctavish23

(Robert)


Ok. Then WHO does my friend and US go see to help this poor guy out?

His psychiatrist? His psychiatrist is a dumb fool that is a pill pusher. Will just write out anything.


Ok. To get to the bottom of all of this. Because now I'm very, very worried. WHO does my friend go see for help? WHO do we take him too to finally prove to him that he has lost his mind.

Because he won't listen to us. Won't believe us and everyone else. He said he will ONLY believe a professional.

Question is....

WHO is that professional????

Carth
01-01-11, 03:01 AM
BTW..this is the guy we booked the appointment with.

Cancel? If so. WHO do we get?


http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/name/Luis_Charles_Hines_LMHC,PhD,DMin_Miami_Florida_676 88

ginniebean
01-01-11, 03:02 AM
The pee tests are bogus, despite the claims they make.

I won't deny your friend needs help, clearly the weed is working against the vyvance.

um, if his prolactin is high, it means he's producing breast milk. You sure about that?


It certainly does sound like your friend has some serious couch lock, and needs some sleepl. Is your friend looking for help? Does he feel there's a problem? Is he searching for help?

All of this sounds like ADHD that while medicated he's got other issues going on as well. lack of sleep is a side effect of the meds. His self image can't be doing so great and it wouldn't surprise me if he's depressed.


It's just my opinion but pot and adhd do not mix. It's makes the symptoms worse, tho many use it to counter the anxiety.

Carth
01-01-11, 03:04 AM
The pee tests are bogus, despite the claims they make.

I won't deny your friend needs help, clearly the weed is working against the vyvance.

um, if his prolactin is high, it means he's producing breast milk. You sure about that?


It certainly does sound like your friend has some serious couch lock, and needs some sleepl. Is your friend looking for help? Does he feel there's a problem? Is he searching for help?

All of this sounds like ADHD that while medicated he's got other issues going on as well. lack of sleep is a side effect of the meds. His self image can't be doing so great and it wouldn't surprise me if he's depressed.


It's just my opinion but pot and adhd do not mix. It's makes the symptoms worse, tho many use it to counter the anxiety.


Blood work says prolactin was at 50. It shouldn't go higher than 20. Has all the signs and symptoms of high prolactin.

Has major mood swings. Gets easily irritated. You better watch out what you say or HOW you say it. Or else...he'll blame YOU for getting an "attitude" with him.

It's just sickening to be around this person. No fun at all! Puts EVERYONE in a bad mood.

ginniebean
01-01-11, 03:05 AM
Carth,

If what you described "lack of sleep, addiction to pot, adhd meds, and not getting anything done" is crazy to you then you have a very poor understanding of adhd.

If you got a better understanding of it you might be in a position to help your friend. If you've been telling him that these crazy pee tests or these other links (which by the way please stop posting them it's against the rules and they will be removed)
will be of any use you're quite wrong.

ginniebean
01-01-11, 03:12 AM
Blood work says prolactin was at 50. It shouldn't go higher than 20. Has all the signs and symptoms of high prolactin.

Has major mood swings. Gets easily irritated. You better watch out what you say or HOW you say it. Or else...he'll blame YOU for getting an "attitude" with him.

It's just sickening to be around this person. No fun at all! Puts EVERYONE in a bad mood.


OK, prolactin is a hormone excreted by the pituitary to allow for breast milk. It is highly unlikely your friend (being male) has an elevated level of prolactin unless he has a pituitary tumour which would be the first thing a real endocronologist would look for.

mood swings, irritation, being over-sensitive are all signs and symptoms of adhd. Clearly the vyvance isn't working and who knows what co-morbids are involved.

You claim to be his friend and want to help him if you do quit searching for snake oil arcanna and get to know a bit more about adhd so you can actually be of help to him.

Carth
01-01-11, 03:26 AM
He has ALL the signs and symptoms of psychosis from the amphetamines.

Go to wikipedia and type psychosis. Everything it says there...he does.

Vyvanse isnt' working for sure! Vyvanse killed my friend. Along with chronic weed smoking. And cigs added to that. As well as alcohol. Lousy diet. Lack of exercise. And lack of sleep.

kilted_scotsman
01-01-11, 08:29 AM
People fall into elephant traps all the time..... you can throw them down a rope but only they can hang onto the end so they can be pulled out.

There's no point in running around getting a better longer stronger rope with knots and loops....

Going into the elephant trap yourself is not a good idea... now there's two of you in the hole and no one left up top to hold the rope.... so that is best left to the professionals, who come with escape rockets in case the "client" gets nasty when asked to leave the nice comfy elephant trap... after all the people up top don't actually know whats at the bottom of the trap... big pile of bananas and an elephant sized sofa perhaps

You can shout down for a while, demonstrate what you want him to to.... but you'll realise that shouting at a guy at the bottom of a hole isn't the way you want to spend your life... so all you can do is throw him down the rope and some wood and hope he makes his own way out.

Maybe after he's been at the bottom of the hole for a while and finished the bananas he might start to think it's not where he wants to be and wonders vaguely about getting out..... shouts for help, fiddles around with the rope and wood. Maybe he even gets it together and builds a ladder...

Maybe you or some complete stranger is somewhere near, hears the shouts and comes to see whats up. Your friend throws his rope up and ,helped by a gathering crowd shouting encouragement and advice from above, he hauls himself up until he's high enough to be grabbed and pulled out.

Many people spend their whole lives at the bottom of holes... they find ways to eke out a living, for a while. People wander past and shout down occasionally but get the reply that life is OK and they don't want to come out quite yet because it's a bit windy up top....


kilted

Carth
01-01-11, 01:23 PM
I still haven't had my question answered in regards to the doctor. Is this a guy I can go to? Look at his creds please.

http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/name/Luis_Charles_Hines_LMHC,PhD,DMin_Miami_Florida_676 88

StoicNate
01-01-11, 02:33 PM
The only medical test that I had to take was a Thyroid test to rule out thyroid problems, I think it was justified.

BUT all the tests that your friend did for a psychologist are probably bogus.

Carth
01-01-11, 02:36 PM
And so are the hormone tests? They are bogus too? Coming from an Endo.

The vitamins test from the endo. Those are bogus too?

His daily MULTIPLE drug abuse. That's bogus too?

His lack of food and sleep. That's bogus too?

ginniebean
01-01-11, 02:43 PM
I still haven't had my question answered in regards to the doctor. Is this a guy I can go to? Look at his creds please.

http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/name/Luis_Charles_Hines_LMHC,PhD,DMin_Miami_Florida_676 88


For what it's worth this guy seems ok.

ginniebean
01-01-11, 02:52 PM
And so are the hormone tests? They are bogus too? Coming from an Endo.

The vitamins test from the endo. Those are bogus too?


There has already been discussion about these pee tests here on the forum. There is not a shred of evidence that they explain anything that goes on in the brain. Simply put, they were debunked as snake oil.

People make money from this sort of thing and that's all the rea$on in theworld to keep trying even when they are shown to be of no value.



His daily MULTIPLE drug abuse. That's bogus too?

His lack of food and sleep. That's bogus too?


No one here is saying your friend does not need help, lack of sleep and not eating are side effects of the vyvance. Drug use is unfortunately common with adhd as many will self medicate.

It's great that you're trying to help your friend but he has to want this help.

Nothing you've written about your friend points to psychosis as much as it points towards typical adhd. His treatment is not very effective and he's not managing well.

The links you posted to your 'endo' guy means he made up a title with endocrine in it but he's most certainly NOT a medical endocrinologist. Please realise there is real help available for your friend, help that has been researched and proven of therapeutic value.

He may need to see another psychiatrist and I can even understand his reluctance as it can be very difficult to find someone.

The best thing you can do is talk sincerely with your friend of your concerns, without pushing some health nut agenda.

StoicNate
01-01-11, 02:57 PM
And so are the hormone tests? They are bogus too? Coming from an Endo.

The vitamins test from the endo. Those are bogus too?

His daily MULTIPLE drug abuse. That's bogus too?

His lack of food and sleep. That's bogus too?

I really think your friend needs to seek out another doctor if he's having problems with this one.

Cool down and relax.
The body changes all the time. It's constantly changing and vitamin levels/hormones can be up or down.

mctavish23
01-01-11, 03:16 PM
NONE of those tests are diagnostic for ADHD (or Bipolar for that matter).

Please check out the Clinical Guidelines for the Diagnosis and Treatment of ADHD

when you get a chance.

The various (professional) American Academies and (professional) Associations may

have different names, but the guidelines will be the same.

Hope that helps.

Happy New Year.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Carth
01-01-11, 03:30 PM
For what it's worth this guy seems ok.

What you made you say he is ok? What did you notice in his creds that I did not?

Carth
01-01-11, 03:35 PM
I am pretty upset about this. I must admit. But this damn guy is ****ing us off bigtime! The other night he called the cops at 3am. Claimed there were two guys in our backyard wearing clown outfits trying to get on our roof. And they each had cell phones and were texting because he could see them doing that. Unreal!

This NEVER happened! Because the neighbors next door work a night shift and get home late. And they so happened to be in their backyard smoking a cig. When they see my friend run out of the house in his undies screaming at two clowns that arent there.

I don't care what he has anymore. This crap isn't flying with us anymore. His problems are his problems which we are trying to resolve. For OUR sakes and his.

If this IS part of ADD and WE are expected to just accept this odd behavior. Screw him! And screw this illness. We are NOT going to accept this. Because we don't have to. And he will be forced to get the hell out of this house.

StoicNate
01-01-11, 04:32 PM
I am pretty upset about this. I must admit. But this damn guy is ****ing us off bigtime! The other night he called the cops at 3am. Claimed there were two guys in our backyard wearing clown outfits trying to get on our roof. And they each had cell phones and were texting because he could see them doing that. Unreal!

This NEVER happened! Because the neighbors next door work a night shift and get home late. And they so happened to be in their backyard smoking a cig. When they see my friend run out of the house in his undies screaming at two clowns that arent there.

I don't care what he has anymore. This crap isn't flying with us anymore. His problems are his problems which we are trying to resolve. For OUR sakes and his.

If this IS part of ADD and WE are expected to just accept this odd behavior. Screw him! And screw this illness. We are NOT going to accept this. Because we don't have to. And he will be forced to get the hell out of this house.

It looks like he has a bigger problem than ADHD...

I think your friend needs intensive inpatient help. He seems like he might have schizophrenia. Who knows.

If he doesn't want help then it's his choice and you have the right to peace and quiet.

Carth
01-01-11, 04:47 PM
No no. He just doesn't THINK he needs help. Why? Because he never complains he feels lousy. Says he feels good. Yeah no ****! Really? LOL It's because he's HIGH on something most of the time.

People only really say they need help when they don't feel well. He feels fine. But is doing and saying very strange things that affects US.

And his little anger outburts are the worst!

OH! And everything WE do and/or say. He THINKS we are getting an attitude with him. When we really aren't! His whole perspective on everything is messed up!!!

daveddd
01-01-11, 06:03 PM
i would look at amphetamine (add meds) abuse much closer than something like schizophrenia

delusions are a very common trait of this

im guessing he doesnt take his meds exactly as prescribed

Carth
01-01-11, 06:25 PM
No no. He does. But come on! Adding in weed and alcohol? And cigs?! Along with all the low hormones and deficiency in vitamins.

StoicNate
01-01-11, 07:34 PM
Your friend seems like he doesn't want to change even though you're offering help.
And on top of that he's giving you problems and stress.

I would kick him out, I mean he has to learn the hard way that being an addict isn't "cool"...It's a good way to become homeless.

I really don't have the patience with addicts who don't want to change.

daveddd
01-01-11, 07:37 PM
Your friend seems like he doesn't want to change even though you're offering help.
And on top of that he's giving you problems and stress.

I would kick him out, I mean he has to learn the hard way that being an addict isn't "cool"...It's a good way to become homeless.

I really don't have the patience with addicts who don't want to change.

hes right


distant yourself be you start to experience negative consequences of HIS behavior

Carth
01-01-11, 07:38 PM
I had patience. But after 6 months of trying. This IS the last resort. I swear, if this psychologist starts to twist things around and turn it onto US. I'm going to flip out! Because I fear that thats what he'll do. Start saying that the problem is us. Sheesh!

kilted_scotsman
01-02-11, 11:45 AM
the medic you linked to seemed quite faith orientated. Your description of your mate makes me wonder if you've lived a sheltered life.

If he IS running into the garden screaming there's clowns around on a regular basis he's on more than 70mg Vyanse and a bit of weed.

He's already irritated by you trying to help him...

His problems are his problems.... you CAN'T resolve them

kilted

Carth
01-02-11, 01:50 PM
the medic you linked to seemed quite faith orientated. Your description of your mate makes me wonder if you've lived a sheltered life.

If he IS running into the garden screaming there's clowns around on a regular basis he's on more than 70mg Vyanse and a bit of weed.

He's already irritated by you trying to help him...

His problems are his problems.... you CAN'T resolve them

kilted


Brother. Are YOU trying to now flip this crap onto me????

So it's ME that's the drug addict now? I'm the one hallucinating????

I'm the one with emotional detatchment from everything? It's ME that has anger issues?

Holy HELL!!! See what I mean? Things are now being thrown onto me, my roomate and HIS family.

His family tried getting to him but he wouldn't budge. They asked US for the last hope in help. And luckily he will go to the meeting just for US. His roomates.

Carth
01-02-11, 01:52 PM
Just an FYI. He was abused sexually, verbally etc etc almost his whole life. His parents are no longer together. His stepfather beat him. He comes from a dysfunctional family.

Not ME! And my parents *whom I love AND like* are still together.

bof00
01-03-11, 07:16 PM
Sounds like he is either taking hallucinogens or is schizophrenic. Look for a psychiatrist who deals with schizophrenia if he's not on drugs, or have him admitted. Having him admitted has a lot of stipulations per county so you'd have to find out that information. Local hospitals or drug and mental health facilities should be able to tell you.

Carth
01-03-11, 07:37 PM
Well, tomorrow is the big day.

What do I do if this doc pulls something on US like the way Kilted *read above* pulled on me?

If I flip out...then he'll think WE are crazy. But if I don't...blood will just start pouring out of my mouth from me biting my tongue so hard! LOL

bof00
01-04-11, 12:10 AM
Honestly, do you think the guy will actually believe there were clowns on your roof texting each other? Just relax.

daveddd
01-04-11, 12:13 AM
in college there was an amphetamine addict sitting on his roof with a bow and arrow, dressed in camouflage

he claimed a bunch of people in the house behind him were trying to kidnap him and his girlfriend

bof00
01-04-11, 12:31 PM
in college there was an amphetamine addict sitting on his roof with a bow and arrow, dressed in camouflage

he claimed a bunch of people in the house behind him were trying to kidnap him and his girlfriend

Dave's right also. Overdosing on amps will cause hallucinations/paranoia too. Is he actually ADHD or is he just saying that to cover up the real reason for having amps around?

Carth
01-04-11, 06:15 PM
Im angry! Just as suspected. This son of a ***** turns everything around onto US! Both of US were like...WTF?!!!!

And our ex-friend sits there with a grin saying..."see..nothing is wrong with me!".

Screw that jerk and screw this addict. He's out of here!

I simply cannot believe this douchbag turned everything around onto us!

He clearly had NO knowledge of any hormones, neurotransmitters. And the damage that ALL recreational drugs do. A total *******!

StoicNate
01-04-11, 10:05 PM
Im angry! Just as suspected. This son of a ***** turns everything around onto US! Both of US were like...WTF?!!!!

And our ex-friend sits there with a grin saying..."see..nothing is wrong with me!".

Screw that jerk and screw this addict. He's out of here!

I simply cannot believe this douchbag turned everything around onto us!

He clearly had NO knowledge of any hormones, neurotransmitters. And the damage that ALL recreational drugs do. A total *******!

Getting rid of the addict looks to be the best choice then.
He's just sitting there frying his brain and going crazy.

Carth
01-04-11, 10:47 PM
I got to speak with 2 other people on 2 other forums. That tell me that these jerk docs like to prolong everything. They do it to make themselves look and sound smarter. And of course to keep you to keep coming in over and over and over again. Which for them means more $$$$$.

His mother and his sister showed up very late. But at least were there long enough to hear all the crap come out of this doctors mouth. So called doctor should I say.

Mom called him a jerk. Sister called him an ***. So that just encouraged me to keep calling him every name in the book. And then my roomate proceeded.

Last words were...."You! You're F'ing out of the house you nut job!".

He's gone! Took him less than 45 minutes to get his crap out of here.

F him! And screw you too Kilted. Wonder if I came from a shelter home? I should slap you across the face if I ever saw you.

LOL.

Now we can all live in peace. Drug free! Crazy free!

add_girl
01-09-11, 10:34 PM
I haven't read the entire thread, but if it helps, the high prolactin hormone issue probably means he has a pituitary gland tumor. I just recently found out that my fibromyalgia is due to high prolactin hormone levels (seeing endocrinologist in a few weeks). I wonder if it has to do with ADHD though, because both result in low dopamine levels.

So I recommend treating the prolactin hormone issue first, then take care of the rest. The specialist says I cannot continue with the other treatments until I get this fixed first.

Icecream
01-09-11, 10:40 PM
Why would you see a shrink for vitamin deficiency? Seems to me like you need a medical dr for the medical things and his shrink should be privilidged(meaning confidential) information.

Marla911
01-10-11, 07:08 AM
You can lead a horse to water but....?

I can see you're coming from a good place (or is your ''friend just irritating you?) but unfortunately all you can really do is make clear your concern (in a gentle way) and offer of support and the rest is up to him.

Dragging him to some dr of your choosing because you're convinced he's crazy - with some dubious test results as ''proof'' is probably only going to annoy and alienate your friend (which in the long term is not going to help him at all, and if that's you're top priority, you should consider the implications of such actions).

My advice Leave the dx up to the experts, if you think your friend is a genuine threat to himself or others contact the appropriate people. If he's just annoying you with his lifestyle choices, you should make some choices of your own and stop spending time with him.

I hope it all works out.

bree
01-10-11, 09:02 AM
why are not more of you doing degrees in medicine and specialising in ADD/ADHD. iM serious, I know it is super expensive in the US so but the rest of us that live in a country that cares about its citizens and give students loans to EVERY uni student how about it?