How did ADD change the course of your becoming an adult?

It seems that ADD has gotten in the way of the usual and customary path to adulthood for many ADDers, including myself. My path was severely altered from the course (I think) I would have traveled had my ADD been diagnosed prior to highschool. It actually was not diagnosed until 20 years after highschool. And reaching my financial independence took longer. I'm financially independent but I'm certainly not sure I'm complete with that aspect of my life! Finding a career path took me much longer than expected. I went into careers I otherwise might not have chosen. Completing an education took me much longer than I expected, about 21 years for the BA! I'll be returning to school to finish a doctorate - and I'll be in my late 40's when I get done! At times, I'm angry and depressed about it, at other times I see life as an adventure, and this is my life, and this is my adventure. I know a few years ago, when I was first diagnosed and treated for ADD, I was downright clinically depressed about all the ways I percieved ADD had halted or altered my life plans. Today, I'm much more excited about being alive, having control over my life and my choices, and living with what I have, and living to the maximum, even when challenges are there.

So how did (or is) ADD change(ing) the course of your becoming an adult?

How do you feel about it?

Jon

Are We Grown Up Yet? U.S. Study Says Not 'Till 26
Thu May 8, 6:37 PM ET Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo!



CHICAGO (Reuters) - Most Americans believe someone isn't grown up until age 26, probably with a completed education, a full-time job, a family to support and financial independence, a survey said on Thursday.



But they also believe that becoming an official grown-up is a process that takes five years from about the age of 20, concluded the report from the University of Chicago's National Opinion Research Center.


The findings were based on a representative sample of 1,398 people over age 18 surveyed in person in 2002. It had an error margin of plus or minus 3 percent.


The poll found the following ages at which people expect the transitions to grown-up status to be completed: Age 20.9 self-supporting; 21.1 no longer living with parents; 21.2 full-time job; 22.3 education complete; 24.5 being able to support a family financially; 25.7 married; and 26.2 having a child.


'There is a large degree of consensus across social groups on the relative importance of the seven transitions,' said Tom Smith, director of the survey. 'The only notable pattern of differences is on views about supporting a family, having a child and getting married.


'Older adults and the widowed and married rate these as more important than younger adults and the never-married do,' he added. 'This probably reflects in large part a shift in values across generations away from traditional family values.'


The most valued step toward reaching adulthood, the survey found, was completing an education, followed by full-time employment, supporting a family, financial independence, living independently of parents, marriage and parenthood.

Does your life match the time frames and assumptions of the above article? How much has your life been different? Is it different because of ADD or for other reasons? Are you on track from your own perspective?

Jon

I'm still not sure how AD/HD stops anybody from become an adult. It may affect the course that we hoped our lives may have gone but I don't think it's prevented me from becoming an adult. Yes, it's taken me a lot longer to get through school than I hope it would but I have learned a lot more a long the way than if I had gone the traditional route.

I have to say, that there are parts of me, like my emotions, and my sense of "self" that I feel are still not fully developed as an "adult". Don't know quite how to explain it.

People who know me always tell me I am a child at heart! I'm a big kid in many ways.

Jon

Wow, healthwiz, I think about this all the time. I'm 33 and still feel like a kid most of the time. Everyone else my age seems so "grown up," but I just don't get it. I mean, I am just graduating from a Master's program, but didn't go to college until I was 25. I am forced to ACT like a grown up because I have a 10 year old daughter, but I feel more comfortable around her friends than her friend's parents. I know I am emotionally delayed in some way. Sometimes I'm glad, because when I see other "grown ups" they just don't seem to be able to enjoy life in the same ways that I do, but on the other hand, I wonder if I'm missing out on what they have. I could go on and on about this, but will stop here. Thanks for posting.

well i'm 26

my sister's a grown up
i'm not

Have to go along with Misclee on this one to some extent...if other adults or peers whom I'm with seem childlike or playful (or perhaps even immature) that makes me feel safer and more comfortable to be around them....it's hard to be around adults who always "act their age":) Yuck...

I haven't been here in a while - lost the url when my old computer blew some fuses. :) But - definitely -do I relate! I'm 32 and I am just barely starting to feel remotely grown up. I still don't have kids. I got my BA at age 22, worked for 5 years and then went back for a teaching credential & masters. but I didn't move out from my parents' til 24 or 25. I didn't make a decent, self-supporting salary until 3 years ago or so (before I was a teacher, I made under $20K a year - I could never have supported myself alone on that).

but now, I have a steady, solid job with enough flexibility for me, I can pay my bills, pay my rent, I'm learning how to be responsible for adult things. I started an additional retirement plan.

Some of this may be from late maturing, but I honestly think a lot of my recent successes in feeling "grown up" are due to success with meds, being diagnosed with ADD and realizing I was having some serious problems (hard to feel self-competent & grown up when you're constantly forgeting to turn paperwork in on time, misplacing things at work every five minutes, forgeting to follow through on stuff, etc.). So, finally, 8 months after diagnosis, I am finally starting to feel more together & grown up. (a little)

I still think my younger sister (29) acts more grown up than me - I can be serious, but I like to play, too. She always dresses up in business clothes, she's married, bought a condo, works in the private sector doing accounting/program analysis. Wears a ton of makeup. You might think she was older by the way she carries herself, dresses & acts. Frankly, I'd rather be me, but I still don't quite feel grown up! It's such a relief to know I'm not the only one. :)

Your not alone. Try the jung personality test and you might find feeling and acting like a kid is a personality type as well.

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

And show your results in the other thread on personality testing too.

J

Is anyone starting to feel MORE grown up?

J

Sometimes I don't "feel" grownup, but I am acting grown up. I am married and have 3 kids so they depend on my to act grownup. But it is hard to believe sometimes that I am 35!! Sometimes I look back on my college days and long for hours on end to play guitar and goof around with buddies. Sometimes I wish I had some friends that could be more "spontaneous".

When I look at the bills and how much progress we have made toward moving from credit abuse, I feel grown-up. Sometimes I feel, too grown up!!

I can relate to finding more friends with spontaneity! Everyone is too busy being an adult, right?

Spontaineity and creativity, that is the well-spring of life, spirit, love and happiness. Its a treasure when you find it in other people. People sometimes treat the spontaneous person as abnormal, but they themselves lead a horribly boring existence, while the spontaneous person finds a way to solve problems quickly, meets life head on prepared to react to anything life can throw at them, and finds a way to have fun, be silly and happy, through it all. Now, when I find friends who value spontainety and creativity, I try to get to know them better!

In my life, I was in the dry world of financial services for many years, and my spontaneity did not have a good channel. I worked too many hours and I gave up my hobbies. My initial source for spontaneous creative people was in the world of photography, as that was and still is my passion, along with horses. I found horse lovers could also be very spontaneous. You kind of have to be spontaneous on a horse, anything could happen. And photography, its very spontaneous and creative. Then when I left the dry world of financial services for a more spontaneous business pursuit, I met people from the world of psychodrama, which became my focal point for people who treasured spontaneity. Now I'm going back to the photography and the horses, as a response to valuing my sponteneity more than I ever have. So I went full circle, from trying the boring career that I thought was being an adult, to letting my sponteineity go, to not liking it, to getting into something more interesting and playful, to meeting the people who really are into sponeneity and creativity, and then finally to making that my life.

J

Very good, it sounds like you have struck gold!

Yup, I think your right msclee. You know, I had an interesting experience today. IT shed some light on the "grown up" stuff. I was closing a business deal this morning at clients location. I handed client the contract for review and signature and while waiting for him to read it, I noticed a school file in my folder as well. It was a form that the school needs completed and faxed to them. So I started to pen in the answers on the form, which I thought was a good use of time while client read his contract, but it shifted my role from business negotiator to student completing paperwork. I was aware of the role dicotomy and decided I could probably not effectively be both an astute business partner and a student at one time, no matter how trivial the paperwork seemed. Ithought it through quickly, but the concern was that if I were asked a spontaneous contract question while I was filling out forms in student mode, I might answer the business question less assertively, more like an appropriate student might answer a professor. So I put the school paperwork back in the folder, despte wanting to use my time effectively, and focused on brochures that only had to do with the business at hand, while the other person read the contract. I was bored but I stayed in role, just in case. He had one challenge that he retorted to me, and being in business role, I answered the retort instantly, and that ended the objection and the contract was signed. I realized this was a valuable lesson, about not shifting roles at times when the alternative role could jeapardize my ability to communciate properly. I realized I do in fact think in different ways when I'm in different roles. I'm more like a kid and deferrential as a student. Thats appropriate when I'm with a professor. I would have been eaten alive if I had a defferential attitude to a business partner who was trying to get the best deal he could get. And this is the point, some people who say they feel like a kid, might feel that way because of the roles we shift into, for certain things in our lives, like additional education. Any thoughts?

I know I don't feel grown up. I think its because I still love to dance in my living room, I love legos, playdo is fun, and music is my media of choice. I have a gameboy and I like watching pokemon and other cartoons with my teens. I laugh and I smile alot, so people at my work think I'm a kid, they were so surprised at my last birthday, they though I was in my 20s when in fact I had turned 38 :D I think I will always be a child at heart

Ditto Kassie! They always think I'm in my early 30's. And I do love to play; why not? It's fun!

Jon

I don't always feel like an adult, and I know some people who snicker behind my back because I have a model railroad layout in my basement & "play with toy trains" . But I've met a lot of non-ADDers who are the same way, so I don't know if ADD has as much to do with it as does the fact that we feel more free to allow it out.
Unlike most other people, we have come to terms with ourselves & our strengths & weaknesses, and allow ourselves to embrace the inner child.
Most of the people who act grown up all the time are no fun and probably are not truely happy.

Mark

Here's my answer to this.....I am definitely NOT grown up...BUT I can pretend to be...when I have to be...I can ACT like an adult...right? Circumstances do call for it...and I can put on my ladylike face and actions as appropriate and then when it's time to take them off -- I can be a kid again....cool...:)

My recent psychodrama, which can be read under the topic of treatment, has really brought me to a feeling of being an adult. It was the constant barrage of advice, and my own confusion about my interpretation of advice, that made me feel like a kid.

As for the ability to continue having fun, I don't feel that is a negative at all. My concern is that I don't feel like a kid in my ability to run my life, in my ability to make my choices. Otherwise, go out an play pinball, or do some other fun things! What is life for?

Jon

What is Grown Up

the fact that linear thinkers put on this facade that they are adults and such.

Do we have to follow suite

Can't we just plain be us the way we are

Why do we have to pretend that were grown up

Just becuse my body says im (old fat and ugly) my mind says Im just a kid at heart

I pay my own way in life

Thats about as grown up as I want to be

Most people with whom I come in contact think I'm "grown up," responsible, "have it together," and all that. However, in Tacy's REAL universe (and the select few she allows to visit her there) know the truth: I'm a child at heart who squeals with glee when she's happy and takes a childish delight in what others would deem the "smallest things," squawks like a newborn when she's not happy, even if the squawking is strictly internal, and can be as moody as a female in middle school. :D

I've come a loooooong way, baby!

To be a child in the wind, dancing, in life's perverse current, is to be happy in the unexpected face of destiny, and sad in the face of daily predictability.

Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. (Author Unknown)

Ditto and love it!

Jon, Master of ADD - Adventurer-Dillydallier-Doer!

I never grew up! Emotionally I have gained fair amount of wisdom and have learned important survival skills, that I didn't have in younger days.
Yet, I am conflicted as motherhood makes me have to behave grown up, which is no fun. Like enforcing don't ruin that, do your chores, eat good food. my child is important of corse and that's why I do it. Yet I don't play sometimes because someone needs to be under the tree to warn him or catch him if he falls. (I really want to be in the tree!! Waaa Waaaa!!! )
j9

Hey Janine: I think you can STILL be a child under the tree..LOL...

Did you ever tell your son you would rather be in the tree, Janine? From my own experience, I want to say, "Don't lose the ability to play! That is one of your gifts; allow it to flow and be a part of you and your experience with your children. They will always remember that about you!!"

I have seen some heavy duty therapy on those who lost the ability to play and be spontaneous, its sad to lose it and no fun at all! When they recaptured it through therapy it was a major blessing and a major fun time and worthy of celebration! As a result, I play with my kids, just like I were a kid, at times. And I can be a fun kid!

Jon

Just another thought on this subject....I've always felt less emotionally mature than my peers.... I look back and have seen evidence of this in my past relationships....

Emotional Immaturity...one of many things swirling about in my head today....

Happy trick-or treating!
I am a lifer for trick-or treating does that make me immature? I hope so! It seems more adults are trick or treating these days, or is it my imagination?

A couple of times I have dressed up in my pumpkin suit and taken my glass and went rum or tricking

It was hard to walk home for some reason

I read a news account that the 25-35 crowd was definitely enjoying Halloween more than previous generations.

I have rea;lized that "grown up" is a facade and that some people are just better than other people at keeping up the facade. The rest of us, not realizing it is a facade, feel that we are in some way inferior, not grown up, because we don't see through the ruse, that some people are putting on a well-trained and engrained act of of looking grown up or what it is suppose to look like if you are supposedly "grown up". This has financial benefits for one thing, and may lead to leadership roles as well. Certainly, just being responsible and on time leads people to believe a person is grown up. Inside, everyone still has very childish feelings just like those of us who are more transparent and like those of us who might be late and feel childish. Otherwise, we are all the same, some more in touch with feelings, some more in touch with image.

Jonathan

I agree the term "grown up" is an illusion, at least for many of us.

In many ways I have never grown up... and would consider it the saddest of personal tragedies if I was forced to.

In other ways, I feel like I have been more "grown up" than the people around me since I was a very young child.

I think there is a thing called "maturity" which I am slow at getting. I'm 46 at this writing.

I am noticing my choices being different from my kids because of "maturity."

At the same time, I sense that there are some things that are "still very immature" that are still plugged in.

I am sometimes surprised when my dog seems to exhibit more patience and maturity than I have. he even tells me when to go to bed frequently. And I've done better since respecting his lead!

<-grin->

I can relate to this post too.... I am only 21 though, but compare to all my friends, I act like a kid.

One time I went out with this guy, he told me that I was too playful because I couldn't stop moving , jumping around, he asked me to do 20 pulls- up ( that was a bet ) and I did it. He asked me to show him my ID, because he thought that I didn't act me age. Needless to say that I felt so bad about it.

Sometimes I really want to change my ways, because guys don't take me seriously most of the time.

I've learned a lot over the years. I think that at this point in my life I have a lot more insight and emotional maturity than I used to. I'm raising kids and trying to be responsible.

But I still just can't see myself as a grown-up. Grow up? NOW? Have you seen all the cool toys they have now? :D

I think part of being grown up is being able to be a kid. To those who can't be a kid at least sometimes, I feel that the appropriate thing to say might be "Grow up!" It is sad when people can't play anymore, can't frolick and laugh. I've seen this many times through my psychodrama experiences. The most telling of those experiences was a woman who was simply unable to play with her children. As it turned out, no one played with her as a child, her brother was sickly which disrupted the family and the parents did not adapt their parenting very well, so she was ignored and not allowed to go outside to play with the other children. Therefore she didn't know the simplest of games, like hide and seek. We adults played hide and seek with her, first teaching her how it is played, and then we had her play. When we ran to hide it was amazing how much childhood instantly jumped back into our psychies. It was as if the childhood memory of hide and seek and the joy of it never left. This woman had so much fun and eventually realized she was going to be able to play with her kids. We realized how important our childhood games were. It was a wonderful experience.

From that experience, it leads me to believe that those who pretend to be uninterested in playing may have had unhappy childhoods and lack the emotional strength to obvercome that and face their childhood demons. Instead, they might prefer to block out childhood, put it behind themselves, and say they are all "grown up". Personally, I think that will end up with a person who becomes repressed, depressed, anal retentive, bored and unhappy.

I prefer my attachment to childhood games, frolicking, playing, laughing, and I do it with my children as often as I can. My experience in psychodrama with hide and seek reinforced the importance of those games and of having fun.

:)

Never-neverland, anyone!?! I'm a Peter not a Wendy!

Originally posted by healthwiz
Yup, I think your right msclee. You know, ...

temptation to pursue false "economy"

So I started to pen in the answers on the form, which I thought was a good use of time while client read his contract, but it shifted my role from business negotiator to student completing paperwork. I was aware of the role dicotomy and decided I could probably not effectively be both an astute business partner and a student at one time, no matter how trivial the paperwork seemed. Ithought it through quickly, but the concern was that if I were asked a spontaneous contract question while I was filling out forms in student mode, I might answer the business question less assertively, more like an appropriate student might answer a professor.

Correct act done.

So I put the school paperwork back in the folder, despite wanting to use my time effectively, and focused on brochures that only had to do with the business at hand, while the other person read the contract.

Uncomfortable, (and therefore mis-directingly - uncomfortable - boredom.

I was bored but I stayed in role, just in case. He had one challenge that he retorted to me, and being in business role, I answered the retort instantly, and that ended the objection and the contract was signed.


I realized this was a valuable lesson, about not shifting roles or changing horses in mid stream! at times when the alternative role could jeapardize my ability to communciate properly. I realized I do in fact think in different ways when I'm in different roles.

I'm more like a kid and deferrential as a student. Thats appropriate when I'm with a professor. I would have been eaten alive if I had a defferential attitude to a business partner who was trying to get the best deal he could get. And this is the point, some people who say they feel like a kid, might feel that way because of the roles we shift into, for certain things in our lives, like additional education.

Any thoughts?

I think the outline of your process as described here is the outline for both success and failure, depending on the choices ACTED ON during the process.

great piece of work if you ask me.

The process outlined is integral to the theory of psychodrama. Roles command not only our acting ability, but our thoughts, our language, our actions, our responses. A lot in life depends on what roles we play, how many roles we can play, and how easily we can shift between roles. The larger and more proficient our personal role library, the more easily and successfully we are able to operate in any situation. We also have to be aware of the roles we are playing. Playing a role we are accustomed to often becomes so natural and unconscious a process that we begin to believe we are the role and the role is our identity. This is a mistake, to confuse roles with identity, because that belief reduces our ability to be flexible and expansive in the roles we are able to shift into. We then can become role-cast and stuck in a role, much like an actor becomes type-cast, and yet without awareness we believe the role is an inseperable part and parcel of our identity.

Why is this dangerous to ourselves? Simple. In my case, if I assume that my ADD is part of my identity, and not an elaborate role developed over time, whether due to processing weaknesses or due to environmental factors, I have lost the battle from the get-go. I must be able to see myself as seperate from my ADD by seeing my ADD as a role. Each aspect of my ADD is part of that role. For instance being late all the time is part of the role. When I try to be ontime, that goes against the role and I fall back into being late. However, when I realize that even something which seems so scientifically validated as ADD may be an elaborate role and seen through role theory, I am able to seperate who I am from the idea that I AM ADD. Therefore when I want to be on time, I have permission to slip into that role of the on time responsible individual I want to be. It is a role, to be responsible and on time. I play that role now, being on time, where as before, I could not play it because I believed me and the ADD role were merged, one, inseperable.

Just some more to think about. Psychodrama has allowed me to explore my identity in new ways. This should challenge the concept and belief that the neurological process of ADD cannot be changed because it is biologically based. I believe the biology and neurology can be changed, slowly and not without some work, but changed never the less, by seeing the roles that are part of the overall identity of ADD, and percieving the roles that are polar opposites of the ADD roles, and practicing those opposite roles so that role diversity is an option. I still have the option to zone out - its a role, and truth be told there are times when I really enjoy zoning out - and yet I have the option to be on target, focused, and involved in my ambitions - its a role too. Today, most people have no idea I am ADD because 1 )I take my medicine (that changess biology but it does not change roles) and 2) I changed my roles.

More food for thought!

Jonathan

I think I'm a "kid" because I treat the "rules" of social behaviour that were expected of me as a child as if they are valid and true now that I'm an adult. I pay deference to people even when I don't have to - because as a child I was expected to be deferential. I function in a state of "uncertainty" now even though I DO know better, because as a child I was always taught that someone else knew better/more. I expect the world to function in a state of enlightened self-interest, because as a child I was always taught that this is the desired state and that everyone works towards it. I realize now that nearly all of these "child" rules and preconceptions hinder me now as an adult. Hardly anyone I have ever met functions in a state of enlightened self-interest, hardly anyone I ever met actually knows better (reasons better), and almost nobody ever shows defference even when it is deserved.

It's as if all the adults act like children, but with bigger and more dire consequences and all those rules I learned and accepted as a child, that were supposed to make me into a good adult are childish. It's like I woke up and realized I live in bizzaro world - the adults act like children and children espouse adult world views. This was reenforced recently by a documentary I saw on teen philanthropy and altruism. It seems as if the kinds of thinking that I always expected from adults is alive and well in high schools.

Aww... but I'm nuts - so all of this is moot anyways. Perception is reality and my perception is at odds with nearly everyone elses so therefore I'm out of touch with reality.

Nicely put Why...something to think about for sure. It reminds me of the book, "Everything I need to know I learned in Kindergarten." Title might be somewhat off, sorry, but you know the book I mean. It might also be that a part of ADD is a little rust in the role shifting department. But if you oil a rusted component it works much better, and so it is true with role shifting, maybe if we train ADDers in role shifting skills, maybe the ADD syndrome will be less pronounced in situations where it is inappropriate?

Jonathan

I like that, Jon. If I get it, then what I do is not necessarily who I am. Like a shot of Guilt-B-Gon. ;)

lol @ Guilt-B-Gone

True FlakeyGirl. Guilt-Be-Gone is now a highly marketable product whichwill soon be on your local shelves at your nearest grocer! :)

But really.... it is true that we are not the roles we play. Imagine if we were! A mother is the role she plays? And when the children grow up and move out, who is the mother? Did she dissapear? Well, because she believes she is "mom" she may feel for a while as if she did vanish, and get quite depressed. How long will she be depressed? Possibly as long as it takes for her to realize she exists even though "mom" is no longer her central role. Workers often feel lost when they lose a job, people retire and don't know who they are. Why? Because they never really fully accepted that they are independent of the various roles they play. for some people, they only play one or two roles, so can you imagine how dramatic it is when one of their roles become obsolete? On the other hand, when a role becomes obsolete, those with many other roles experience something else, opportunity, opportunity to take on a new role they have been wanting to play more.

It's also true that when I throw a fit while arguing with my wife, yes I do this occassionally although much less now than before, I could be genuinely angry about something but I have choices in how to express anger, unless I am playing a role. If the role I am playing is the role I learned from my father, how men act when they are angry, well, the results will be ugly. If I shift out of that role into the role of a calmer wiser more patient person, and I learn how to play that role, that new role becomes a part of my role reportiore and eventually feels so natural it is a part of me. The role of my father's style of anger gets retired - maybe slowly - but retired nver the less, because it is obsolete and does not have any positive purpose in my life anymore.

So, even though I had fits and acted angry the way my father did, I am not my behavior. I can try on different roles until I find one that is successful in dealing with anger without hurting others. When that becomes so natural, then others say "he is so calm and so rational when he is angry" but is that me? That is a role, the role I choose for my self.

When people realize that role reportoire is the key to change, it doesn't mean there is not some work involved, but it does mean we are not married to our roles, and we can change the roles we play.

And none of that changes WHO we are, because our essence has never changed. We may be more pleasant to be around or more successful at navigating circumstances but our identity never changed.

Well, I hope some of this makes sense.

Jonathan

Jonathan,

Tell me if I am tracking you here...

Roles name groups of expectations, Mother role, student role, saleman role...

Society works by reducing the surprises... ""common courtesy" is nothing but shared rules of behaviour that eliminate or reduce, "rude surprises." Social roles...

So roles set expectations, and help us prepare for the demands we are about to meet in that role. If I shift into the wrong role for a setting, I have the wrong tools out, preparations made, and expectations "called forth."

Though expecations can't change biology, they can run right over it for periods of time... so "assuming a role" can be a temporary method for meeting challenges that in our "everyday role" we would actually not be prepared to meet.

So also, developing 'adapted" roles for "normal behavior while still being ADHD" we have another tool to use, in temporary settings, to help us be better prepared for particular challenges than we other wise would be.

For me, preparation is the key to any and every success, and doing things in layers and steps. skiping steps or skipping layers really screws me up. But if i have a nice set of roles, well defined with expectations and tools for that particular need, i can conceivably shift from one role to another in succession and do what, as any single role, i could not do.

Am i close some where? - d

Very well said

Also roles also eliminate certain parts of our perception. Try smiling and being unhappy. Its kind of like that. When you assume certain roles, certain emotions and thoughts get activated. Other emotions get put away. If playing a childish role, the thoughts of an adult are tucked away temporarily and thoughts and emotional responses become childlike. So its also possible that when you are shifted into an inapporpriate role, you may not even be able to access the appropriate emotions, thoughts or responses.

You summed it up in an interesting way Wheel.

Jonathan