View Full Version : How do you describe mentally ill?


Draga
08-10-04, 08:39 AM
Ok, this thought just crossed my mind........What does it really mean to be mentally stabile? To be able to function in a "normal" society.? I admit I have a few issues...but honestly is it really an issue?

I am reminded of the lyrics in Metallica's "Welcome Home, Sanatarium":


They keep me locked up in this cage
Can't they see it's why my brain says rage

Build my fear of what's out there
And cannot breathe the open air
Whisper things into my brain
Assuring me that I'm insane
They think our heads are in their hands
But violent use brings violent plans
Keep him tied, it makes him well
He's getting better, can't you tell??

Hmmmmmm.....

Social interaction; able to follow orders; dress properly; mild mannered; perky; responsible....from what I know, these are just some traits that the NORMS have set standards of social acceptance.

Now myself....I am sociable to the point that I make wise cracks to make people laugh...Normal level...4 GET IT!!!!!!! Not only stuttoring and blanking but also blurting things out ...speaking out of turn...impulsive.....I dress any way I please that is comfortable....I can not stand control and someone having control of my every move for 8 hours a day...and with my forgetfullness and lack of coordination and short temper...

It makes for a very un popular employee of the month and socially outcasted because I can not live up to standards of total STRANGERS...Everyone telling me what I NEED TO DO, WHO I SHOULD BE, HOW I SHOULD ACT!!!!!! Shouldn't that be left up to me and couldn't they just accept me for the person I am without predjudice?

Maybe....."Whisper things into my brain....Assuring me that I'm insane"....is exactly what they are doing because I refuse to be like them.

One thing I know for sure is.....the one things that society and I have in common.....[B]They dont want someone like me and I sure as h*** don't want to be like them.[B] and I really dont think I can ever change the way I feel.

jaimegerise
08-10-04, 02:05 PM
hmmmmmmm Mel, all good points...only I'll have to come back later to respond more...but I can see your point!

waywardclam
08-10-04, 03:08 PM
The shrink I went to actually described this fairly well to me... she said EVERYBODY has issues, problems, ways they are not normal; they are not considered a "condition" that needs treatment until they are extreme enough to become a problem in terms of coping with day to day life.

Heck, according to that definition, I am stark raving loony. :D :D :D

jaimegerise
08-10-04, 03:55 PM
Clam, tell us something we don't know :p (stark raving looney) :p :p

Seriously though, I agree with everything else you just said.

Draga
08-10-04, 10:59 PM
LMAO.....I agree with Jaime...Clam tell us something we dunno:p!

I been thinking of this off and on all day..it still bugging me

Mary
08-10-04, 11:34 PM
Good point of view Melly!! How true as well!

Draga
08-10-04, 11:55 PM
Hmm...another question..Mental Illness is caused from chemical embalance in your brain, wouldn't it make it a physical illness and not mental....I flash on the lyrics once again...Whisper things into my brain.......Assuring me that I'm insane.

paulbf
08-11-04, 12:16 AM
With what you've been through (and myself so I'm told) you'd be in big trouble if you hadn't developed a few quirks to deal with it. It's the natural response.

When I think of normal people, I think of someone who had a loving family and I'm real sad I din't get that as much as we all deserve. OTOH when I think of normal people, I think of boring people who have no clue. There is suprisingly little connection for me with people who haven't suffered or aren't a bit wierd. OTOH it sure would be good to feel that secure in life. Whatever the case, there aren't so many boring peaceful people out there. Maybe it's the people who think they are OK but aren't... that grate on me. The people who could take such a crappy life and tell themselves everything is fine. That's what scares me.

The best place to be though is to have suffered and known it and found happiness in spite of all that. This is where we are headed.

Draga
08-11-04, 04:43 AM
With what you've been through (and myself so I'm told) you'd be in big trouble if you hadn't developed a few quirks to deal with it. It's the natural response..

Maybe it's the people who think they are OK but aren't... that grate on me. The people who could take such a crappy life and tell themselves everything is fine. That's what scares me.

The best place to be though is to have suffered and known it and found happiness in spite of all that. This is where we are headed.



I would be even worse if I hide the person I truly amand become someone's puppet 8 hours a day just to please a world who would never accept the real me otherwise.

To not admit there is something wrong in it's self is illness...They like to live the life of "Cleopatra, Queen of Denile" I admit I have problems.

I can live with my excentrisities and quirks and accept the fact that I have several conditions, good and bad.....but of course other's individually can't and as far as I am conserned....What Do I Care?...

As far as the outside world as a whole, I have to be like a robot and live by rules, rules which go against the kind of person I have come to accept (by that which telling me already that( the person I am is not good enough for the outside), otherwise there is something wrong with me....I AM WRONG...Since when is individuality wrong or an illness?

Yes, I know I have been through hell's fire, and although there was a lot of mental and physical damnage done to me as a result, I am happy knowing that I have survived the worst of it and I have not become like those who hurt me, and I am doing what I can to turn take all the pain and hurt I have been through to help others....There are still a lot of issues for me to deal with and so I will take this time that I am considered "ILL" to work on them...BUT ONLY to change what I do not like about me, and I'm not going to even give a damn what the rest of the world can not accept.



Oh, Paul........

"When I think of normal people, I think of someone who had a loving family and I'm real sad I din't get that as much as we all deserve. OTOH when I think of normal people, I think of boring people who have no clue."

*sings*That's the way they became the Brady Bunch :D LOLOLOLOL

What x-actly is OTOH?

Dex
08-11-04, 06:39 AM
Just remember the people who change the world the most, and by that I mean the great thinkers and doers, are never 'normal'. They were always the people who were odd to the extreme and shunned by established institutions. Don't forget Einstein was considered to be "unteachable" by his high school teacher.

Frankly I believe that 'normality' is a state of being instituted by less than able minds, so that their average mental abilities can remain safely hidden.

Draga
08-11-04, 06:57 AM
I have always said, We shall rule the world someday.....I really do we believe we can change the world not just by thinking, but by using the Gifts Bestowed upon us since birth..ADD is in it's own right a gift.

When you think of the positive aspects of our so called "illness"..we can use them against the negative.....in our own way.

I Quote from "My Curse Or My Salvation"

I shall take what I have learned and make it my salvation,
You SHALL see me leave my mark acrpss the nation!

Also I remember hearing a woman on an episode of the Golden Girls (not original character) say,

"You know what they say about people with mental illnesses, They are the choosen ones."

I love those lines!

waywardclam
08-11-04, 07:21 AM
What x-actly is OTOH?

"On The Other Hand"

Draga
08-11-04, 07:39 AM
Thanks, Clam:)
YaS

Your a Sweetie

paulbf
08-11-04, 09:26 AM
OTOH = On The Other Hand

That's an accomplishment to not become like those who hurt you, in fact, to turn it around to help others. I can't imagine being abusive like that. OTOH I've picked up a lot of similarities, maybe masked, maybe more subtle, maybe more self destructive than lashing out at others.

Yeah I know, Brady Bunch, etc. but really there are people out there with warm families, loving relationships, healthy lifestyle, etc. Anyways I'm working toward that & each step closer is a big reward.

krisp
08-11-04, 09:33 AM
Hmm, well, I had a loving family and still don't consider myself "normal." I do consider myself fortunate, though, that I didn't have those issues to deal with in addition to the wacky brain chemistry I've already got.

I don't really like the word "normal." It makes me flashback to junior high, when I was an outcast for being too different. In general, I think that too many people have trouble accepting differences in others. I would not mind, for example, if the Bradys moved in next door, unless they turned up their noses at my family's behavior. :p (If they did, I'm pretty sure I could beat up Carol Brady ... :D )

Draga
08-11-04, 09:42 AM
Oh My, really, Paul....What mirical pill exactly are the parents taking???

Another thing I am happy about getting through my past, my survival skills are a little sharper and a lot less nieve to let myself get hurt again...I am happy there are family and relationships out there like the ones you described....and they will never know half of the things I know.

OTOH:p, who's to say Ms. Brady can't be having her typical everyday happy routine of shopping and get attacked by someone.......Some familys love to play the loving family in company but in reality they are just as messed up as us..I mean Come on...U seen dem Brady kids:p!

Draga
08-11-04, 09:50 AM
I don't really like the word "normal." It makes me flashback to junior high, when I was an outcast for being too different. In general, I think that too many people have trouble accepting differences in others. I would not mind, for example, if the Bradys moved in next door, unless they turned up their noses at my family's behavior. :p (If they did, I'm pretty sure I could beat up Carol Brady ... :D )

Did we go to the same school? Actually I do not think there isn't one ADD person who hasn't been through it...I been through it in school and I am putting up with it even now....

Hehe...After Carol..what's say we go after Marsha next...Catch her in between meals when she in bathroom "disposing" of what ever she ate and then we can flush her head.

Her Little sister can help, she was an outcast too LOL!

Draga
08-11-04, 09:55 AM
I been listening to this song all night almost and I posted the lyrics in Chit Chat, but I need to post it in here too...It sums up what I am going through right now:

Artist: Korn
Song: Did My Time

Lyrics :

Realized I can never win
Sometimes I feel like I have failed
Inside where do I begin
My mind is laughing at me
Tell me why am I to blame
Arent we suppose to be the same
Thats why I will never change
This thing thats burning in me

I am the one who chose my path
I am the one who couldnt last
I am alive full of pain
I feel the anger changing me

Sometimes I can never tell
If I got something to help the pain
Thats why I just beg and plead
For this curse to leave me
Tell me why am I to blame
Arent we suppose to be the same
Thats why I will never change
This thing thats burning in me.

I am the one who chose my path
I am the one who couldnt last
I am alive full of pain
I feel the anger changing me

Beaten
I feel so
Insane
I really
Tried
I did my time
I did my time
I did my time
I did my time
I did my time

I am the one who chose my path
I am the one who couldnt last
I feel alive full of pain
I feel the anger changing me

O god the angers changing me
O god the angers changing me

Draga
08-11-04, 09:59 AM
I could not have said it better myself....TY KORN!!!!!!

paulbf
08-11-04, 10:01 AM
I know it's not as common as they'd have you believe but stuff like 'your sibling was genuinely like a real friend, your best buddy'... is so alien to me and I think pretty common (relatively) out there in normal-land. Krisp says she had that at home at least. It wasn't that bad for me, mom & I are pals (though not without issues) & I know there are lots of shades in between but... And I mean we can maybe overcome and maybe turn out stronger for it in the end or at least more 'interesting' but it's not like it was a big gift really. I'd rather not to have been a miserable little kid. I'd rather to have grown up a bit more stable & normal.

Anyways what happened happened. Make the best of it & move on.

Draga
08-11-04, 10:08 AM
The sad part is.....Now a days just the idea of a family like that IS alien....It seems the dysfuntional families are becoming more the typical family than that Happy Families. I have noooooooo Idea where or when things got so upside/ down....Or is it just me who thinks so?

fasttalkingmom
08-11-04, 10:11 AM
To me mentaly ill means:

you risk your 5 year olds life by putting her on the back of a sport style motorcycle and take her a ride not for her but for your own thrill..... Not seeing it was a very dangerous thing to do.

Not being able to see my so called " controling ______" attidude as concern for my child.....

Not paying attention to the fact your children are in the car with you when you decide to have road rage and drive 90 miles and hour to catch up with someone who mad you angry......

Not shower for days or taking care of your health needs....

Everything you do or say is fine, it's everyone else who has a problem because they don't get you. No matter how abusive, angry, out of line you are you never see you have a problem......

thinking everyone is out to control you and maybe they're just trying to keep you safe and trying to help you before you distroy yourself and those who love you.

I'm sorry if I'm way off........and I don't mean to offend anyone, you know I love you guys. This is a very touchy subject for me. This is what I see in my life situation as to what mental illness means to me. Doesn't mean I'm saying anything about anyone else...

"post this, don't post this, post this, don't post this, post it"....... :confused:

Draga
08-11-04, 10:16 AM
It's Ok, Paula, I understand and I know that was not directed at me or anyone else in the forums..........even if somethings ya said may hit close to home for me.....I know that and admit that....1st step to recovery..Heh.

paulbf
08-11-04, 10:33 AM
Hmm OK thanks Paula... so lets do the definition this way...

"Destructive behavior."

Could be self destructive or threatening to others but the point is your brain ain't supposed to be doing stuff wrong like that. Being mentally healthy means you are able to pursue the good path & take actions that are positive/productive or at least enjoyable without causing harm. Mental unhealth is doing stupid/contradictory things that are no good for anybody, usually without even knowing or being unable to control it. Somewhere in there is just being mean, irresponsible, immoral but you know, I'd say those are all sickness too.

Being weird is not immoral or sick as long as you don't let it be destructive. I don't like to call it immoral because more often than not, it's a response to some suffering... the only thing we know how to do. Removing the guilt of morality doesn't excuse it though, if it's destructive, it's destructive. Just a matter of semantics perhaps but it helps me understand more clearly.

Draga
08-11-04, 10:44 AM
Mental unhealth is doing stupid/contradictory things that are no good for anybody, usually without even knowing or being unable to control it.


Do ya mean, Drinking too much when you know you are on Medication, but you are so stressed and depressed that you dont even think of it and don't even realize you are drinking 2 much 2 fast and when You start sobering up you become depressed again and this time Not even realizing you are cutting yourself for no reason..That is an ill Person?

Um.....That is just hypothetical example..Heh

I have done a lot of stupid things cause of my impulsiveness....and when It effects just me...I can deal with it....when It effects my family and others around me.....I become more self destructive and want to hurt myself.

Ok dammit, I never said I was a Healthy minded person....But I know I am not well because I say so...... and not because they say. What I see wrong with me is a lot different from what they see.

paulbf
08-11-04, 10:57 AM
Yup, I think that'd definitely qualify. I hope this wasn't just recently Melly?

Hmmm, another thought...

Sometimes I think those totally bizzare things that we call 'crazy' are maybe actually very creative solutions to dealing with stress. Of course it's a matter of how much stress & incredible amounts are more likely to cause something 'crazy'. But... if you look at the run of the mill destructive behaviors that we think of as 'immoral' those are really not very creative solutions and not much of a chance of convincing a judge that you are too crazy to be responsible for your actions in those cases. But it is pretty well recognized that anyone who's been through enough stress in life to develop such bizarre behaviors deserves some mercy.

I'm not sure if I made that point clearly.

fasttalkingmom
08-11-04, 11:00 AM
I totally see what your saying paul............I never realized the difference

fasttalkingmom
08-11-04, 11:05 AM
and to add............ it would be one persons interpretation of what they might think so called "crazy" or "mental ill" is ?

I am I right? ........ So when I was 20 and had the hair on the back of my head shaved and my family really thought I had a problem, that was their opinion of me but that didn't make me it ?

fasttalkingmom
08-11-04, 11:07 AM
OMG...... I can't stop.......... This is really making me see things different....

paulbf
08-11-04, 11:10 AM
Shaving your head is a pretty creative solution and except for freaking out your parents, not really destructive at all, therefore not crazy.

ha ha

fasttalkingmom
08-11-04, 11:29 AM
Ok so when my husband took my then 5 year old for a dangerous ride on his motorcycle it was a mental unhealth thing to do ? .......

If someone is having unprotected sex wth someone they know has AIDs is mentally unhealthy ?

if someone lights a fire in a building knowing there are people inside that is mental illness?

if you don't shower, take care of your health, be mean and verbal abusive and seem to only be thinking of your self my not be waht it seems? It could be the way that person is dealing with stress or something? Not necessarily due to mental illness?.....

So tell me if your hosptialized due to your mental state because your a danger to yourself or because your having trouble dealing with the world
(sorry I don't know how else to say it, I don't know to much about this please correct me) what is that?

Draga
08-11-04, 11:33 AM
Um Paul...I did mention that was hypothetical didn't I....Or you're not buying it? LOL..

To turn that bizzarness to hurt myself is not good at all, but like I said before, at least, unlike the others, I didn't turn it on anyone else......I always felt that I would rather hurt myself than nother living being...

OMFG.....In A way, in that sence..I have turned into the ones that hurt me....like I am continuing what they started even though it stopped..But I rarely abuse myself anymore physically....the last time was only cause I was drunk and depressed and my mind was no where near to b found. Other than that...I don't.....I am definetly back on the wagon..hehe.

paulbf
08-11-04, 11:40 AM
Yeah, all of that FTM. A normal healthy brain seeks pleasure and avoids pain. An unhealthy mind is out of balance and seeks pain/avoids pleasure.

Um, one could be seeking pleasure short term and causing long term pain like the motorcycle incident so yeah it's a bit more complicated. But usually we are aware of the long term consequences so that's still seeking pain. And yes there are times we need to endure pain and be brave enough to do that. It gets a bit harder to explain in simple terms but common sense tells us it all is a matter of acting in a healthy way or unhealthy way. I don't buy into the whole guilt thing... I mean yeah, guilt is the awareness of acting unhealthy but there is something in it like a stamp of badness that I don't find to be useful.

Anyways I think I'm rambling now... got to go to work for a while.

paulbf
08-11-04, 11:43 AM
I've had thoughts (only thoughts) of cutting myself.... thankfully didn't last long and I'm over that... just sort of random out of the blue thoughts. No doubt I'm self destructive though... smoking & whatnot.

Sounds a good revelation for you about becoming them against yourself. I'm also more inclined to hurt myself than let it out into the world. A healthy response would be to turn that anger into positive action.

gotta go to work now...

mctavish23
08-11-04, 08:01 PM
It depends on the specific type of problem and the degree of impairment involved.

Draga
08-13-04, 03:28 AM
I know there are things about my bipolar that make me a lil hard to deal with....and I do want to work on em...sometimes not even medications help...ugh

exeter
09-11-04, 03:31 AM
Hmm, I (quickly) read all the posts in this thread, and I noticed that post #1 asks two completely different questions... what is mental illness and what is mental health?

I just read a book today by Richard Carlson, the guy who wrote Don't Sweat the Small Stuff, called Shortcut Through Therapy that made a lot of sense to me. In the introduction, he mentions where he was speaking in front of a crowd of mental health grad students and asked the question "Who here can define 'mental health' and 'well-being'?" Guess what? Nobody spoke up. An auditorium full of future researchers and therapists couldn't tell him what these two things were.

He goes on to say that those same people would probably have a good idea what mental illness is, because the DSM provides a list of most of the most common mental illnesses.

I'd recommend reading the book if you get a chance. You can find a used copy on amazon.com pretty cheap. :) Last I checked, the lowest price was $3.24, and I'd say it would be WELL worth it even at the full amazon.com price of $9 something.

Someone also raised an interesting question about whether a mental illness that is treatable with medications is really a physical illness. I have to say I don't really have a good answer to that. Depression, for example, is very treatable with antidepressants or electroshock (yes, really, this works -- 80% or so effectiveness rate in depression), but is also extremely treatable with talk therapy.

In a case of severe, suicidal, or psychotic depression, you'd want to use both medications and talk therapy. I've never been suicidal, but I've been so far down in the pits of depression that I didn't even feel like getting out of bed on my best friend's birthday to go see her. Unfortunately, I didn't have access to antidepressants, because I think it might have been helpful, but I digress a bit... :P

Anyway, depression is a great example to use here because it is very treatable with both meds and talk. The thing is, talk therapy, when it's effective, seems to have the same effect on brain activity as antidepressant drugs do.

It seems to me that it's almost a meaningless question whether it's a mental or physical illness, though, as long as we have treatments that WORK. The advantage that therapy has over drugs is that there are generally few side effects. (Ok, a truly bad or manipulative therapist can really mess with your mind, but I'd like to think most aren't like that.)

Bipolar disorder, OTOH, is rather interesting in that it tends to respond very well to meds and not so well to strictly talk therapy. (I'm basing this only on what I've read, and not personal experience here.) Schizophrenia falls into the same category of responding well to meds but not to talk therapy alone.

Now, we don't have half a clue HOW most of the meds work on bipolar disorder, but they do. Standard treatment before lithium was discovered to be effective tended to be institutionalization if the manias or depressions were severe enough. For schizophrenics, it tended to be institutionalization for life.

Interestingly, both bipolar and schizophrenia are widely acknowledged to be highly heritable. Unipolar depression, while the studies do point to a component of heritability, tend to do so with a significantly lesser confidence than with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

Draga
09-11-04, 03:40 AM
Hmm, I (quickly) read all the posts in this thread, and I noticed that post #1 asks two completely different questions... what is mental illness and what is mental health?

I just read a book today by Richard Carlson, the guy who wrote Don't Sweat the Small Stuff, called Shortcut Through Therapy that made a lot of sense to me. In the introduction, he mentions where he was speaking in front of a crowd of mental health grad students and asked the question "Who here can define 'mental health' and 'well-being'?" Guess what? Nobody spoke up. An auditorium full of future researchers and therapists couldn't tell him what these two things were.

He goes on to say that those same people would probably have a good idea what mental illness is, because the DSM provides a list of most of the most common mental illnesses.

I'd recommend reading the book if you get a chance. You can find a used copy on amazon.com pretty cheap. :) Last I checked, the lowest price was $3.24, and I'd say it would be WELL worth it even at the full amazon.com price of $9 something.

Someone also raised an interesting question about whether a mental illness that is treatable with medications is really a physical illness. I have to say I don't really have a good answer to that. Depression, for example, is very treatable with antidepressants or electroshock (yes, really, this works -- 80% or so effectiveness rate in depression), but is also extremely treatable with talk therapy.

In a case of severe, suicidal, or psychotic depression, you'd want to use both medications and talk therapy. I've never been suicidal, but I've been so far down in the pits of depression that I didn't even feel like getting out of bed on my best friend's birthday to go see her. Unfortunately, I didn't have access to antidepressants, because I think it might have been helpful, but I digress a bit... :P

Anyway, depression is a great example to use here because it is very treatable with both meds and talk. The thing is, talk therapy, when it's effective, seems to have the same effect on brain activity as antidepressant drugs do.

It seems to me that it's almost a meaningless question whether it's a mental or physical illness, though, as long as we have treatments that WORK. The advantage that therapy has over drugs is that there are generally few side effects. (Ok, a truly bad or manipulative therapist can really mess with your mind, but I'd like to think most aren't like that.)

Bipolar disorder, OTOH, is rather interesting in that it tends to respond very well to meds and not so well to strictly talk therapy. (I'm basing this only on what I've read, and not personal experience here.) Schizophrenia falls into the same category of responding well to meds but not to talk therapy alone.

Now, we don't have half a clue HOW most of the meds work on bipolar disorder, but they do. Standard treatment before lithium was discovered to be effective tended to be institutionalization if the manias or depressions were severe enough. For schizophrenics, it tended to be institutionalization for life.

Interestingly, both bipolar and schizophrenia are widely acknowledged to be highly heritable. Unipolar depression, while the studies do point to a component of heritability, tend to do so with a significantly lesser confidence than with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.


Actually It is Both Physical and Mental....It is the chemical embalance in your brain that causes mental problems....Mom is always telling me that I am not nuts I just have medical problems...Now if she can only through her head that meds are not going to solve everything...Ick!

KnittingJunkie
02-05-05, 02:53 PM
In my mind, "mentally ill" defines a person who hurts other people on a regular basis. It is not a matter of being different from others; it is not a matter of thinking outside the box, or not "behaving" in what good society would consider to be a proper way.

Mental illness, I think, is defined by actions--harmful actions.

Sanity, however, is defined usually as going and acting the way one is "supposed" to--doing or thinking nothing that would be considered unusual to the general population.

Two things are true:

1) Most of the population could very easily be diagnosed with some sort of psychiatric illness or disorder

and

2) Most psychiatrists/psychologists/etc. had at one time or still have "issues," as polite society would call this subject matter.

Chrys

Draga
02-13-05, 08:28 AM
polite society ??????? Man that aint an oxy-moron! :eek:

Coral Rhedd
02-13-05, 10:58 AM
Someone also raised an interesting question about whether a mental illness that is treatable with medications is really a physical illness. I have to say I don't really have a good answer to that. Depression, for example, is very treatable with antidepressants or electroshock (yes, really, this works -- 80% or so effectiveness rate in depression), but is also extremely treatable with talk therapy.


Exeter, by 80% effective, do you mean 80% effective in all the people who take them?

By effective, to we mean complete wellness or do we mean showing some improvement?

Regards,
Coral

Coral Rhedd
02-13-05, 05:47 PM
In my mind, "mentally ill" defines a person who hurts other people on a regular basis.

Hi Chrys,

I know your definition was much broader than the above, but I would like to focus on this concept for a moment. I hope you don't mind me using it as a launching point for a broader discussion.

Many people do not realize that most properly treated people who are medically classified as mentally ill hurt people less frequently than so called "normal" people.

For years people were afraid of mentally ill people because they saw them as dangerous and they confused certain abberant behavior as mental illness. Let us take one aberrant behavior know as flashing or exposing oneself. People used to think people who did this were relatively harmless but they were just "sick." Subsequent studies have shown that these people are usually not harmless, that their behavior can escalate to a dangerous degree to burglary, rape, and even murder. So much for harmless. But are they mentally ill? Not necessarily in the legal sense at all. Many of these people have a strong sociopathic element to their personality yet cannot properly be classified as having a specific mental illness. This is why when they carry their invasive behavior further toward harming others they can be put in prison. They are criminal and not ill.

On the other hand, schizophrenic people have often been seen as dangerous. most of them are not. Instead, they are very much off in their own world. Many schizophrenic people have been mistreated or even killed by police because their behavior has been misunderstood in the past. Shouting back to their voices and waving their hands around when confronted by police as a vagrant does not make for a safe situation. Treated schizophrenics are probably less dangerous than most people who would classify themselves as normal.

Addiction figures in many crimes. It is often plays a role in theft, assault, and child abuse. To the extent that addiction is part of a dual diagnosis, it can cause great trouble for people. This is sometimes called in the drug treatment biz Double Trouble. But drug and alcohol addicted people with no diagnosis are also responsible for some violent crime.

It is important to understand that the medical defintion of mental illness, the cultural definition of mental illness, and the legal definition of mental illness are all different. What does this mean? To some extent, I think it means the words mentally ill are just a label.

If ADD/ADHD is a problem with brain chemistry that manifests itself in certain behaviors how is it any different from Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, and certain types of alcoholism? Broadly, they can all be classified as mental disorders.

Now guess which fella is more likely to kill you: The schizophrenic who resides in a shelter and steals an occasional pack of hotdogs from the supermarket or the newly depressed fella with a cabinet full of guns who has just been fired from his twenty-five years of employment when one year shy of retirement?

Regards,
Coral Rhedd

Draga
02-13-05, 06:38 PM
I dated a schizophrenic who listened to the voices that I was cheating on him..which I never did...and it did get violent...maybe the voices I can pin on his condition..but the violence...No mental disorder will ever excuse abuse...just like abuse victims are all kinds of people .....abusers as well.

KnittingJunkie
03-12-05, 12:18 AM
I think I expressed my opinion wrong, or you interpreted it wrong, or both, or something.

See, I was saying that most who are referred to as being "mentally ill" are not dangerous or violent, but that society tends to say mentally ill people are dangerous in some way (just like you said.)

At the same time, I was trying to say that people who really are dangerous deserve to be thought of as such--they're the ones promoting that stereotype, after all.

So, I was saying that the label "mentally ill" carries a super-crappy stigma...and the only ones who should have to deal with that, in my opinion, are those who go around hurting other people.

The rest of those considered to be in the "mentally ill" category just happen to be on meds or seeing a therapist.

In short, I was trying to say that the definition of "normal" is just rediculous, and just because you've got a file in some therapist's office doesn't make you a dangerous freak.

Now am I making any sense? It's kind of abstract, I realize...it's like this: I have anxiety disorder, and a friend of mine has Bipolar Disorder, and other friends are diagnosed with something written here or there in the DSM-IV, but I don't think the label of "mentally ill" is something that makes much sense at all.

Perhaps the following would be more accurate:

"Tired of taking pills their insurance companies don't pay as much for as they would for other stuff--if you're lucky enough to even have insurance, that is--and tired of people whispering about them, using adjectives like "ill."

Chrys

Draga
03-12-05, 12:28 AM
So, I was saying that the label "mentally ill" carries a super-crappy stigma...and the only ones who should have to deal with that, in my opinion, are those who go around hurting other people.

THANK YOU! exactamundo, chica

auntchris
03-12-05, 12:49 AM
Good analogy Chrys. Have had a hard time responding to this thread. Hard to find the word you hit the nail on the head...

exeter
03-12-05, 01:13 AM
Exeter, by 80% effective, do you mean 80% effective in all the people who take them?

By effective, to we mean complete wellness or do we mean showing some improvement?

Regards,
Coral Whoa, I missed this post completely the first time... :) You probably can't read Polish, but there's an abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2084714&dopt=Abstract that mentions a 63% rate of full remission in combination with antidepressant treatment. It is extremely safe and the most severe common side effect is a temporary short-term memory loss. I wouldn't try it unless nothing else worked, but it's definitely highly effective.

Edit: Forgot to add that over 90% of the patients in this study had "some improvement."

Draga
03-12-05, 01:17 AM
:eek: shocking! only 2 women and 1 man with no effect...what made them immune to that

exeter
03-12-05, 01:18 AM
They forgot to reverse the polarity of the tachyon beam and channel it through the main deflector dish. Either that or they forgot to plug the thing in, I bet.

Draga
03-12-05, 01:23 AM
LMFAO! Sounds trekkie meets dumb and dumber

KnittingJunkie
03-12-05, 04:38 AM
Glad I've made good use of a soapbox, guys. It's 2:30 a.m. now. I have two more assignments to finish. By Sunday.

I am one exhausted chica. But yeah, rock on with our bad medicated selves! Woo-hooo!:p

Chrys

mctavish23
03-20-05, 09:34 PM
Those were some excellent posts.Thanks for the insight.

Scattered
10-28-05, 11:55 PM
The thing is, talk therapy, when it's effective, seems to have the same effect on brain activity as antidepressant drugs do.In one of my first classes in my masters counseling program, our professor told us the the mind is an amazing chemical factory and can manufacture a wide variety of the chemicals, hormones, etc our body needs. I guess for that to happen though, you have to be in the right frame of mind.:p

Seriously though, the right thinking patterns do effect the chemicals in our brains, the glitch is that once you get far enough down in the pit, it's awfully hard (though not necessarily impossible) for talk therapy to get through all the unhealthy filters to change thought patterns enough to put all that good cognition into practice. If you ADHD on top of it all, you're lucky to even remember you talk therapy session unless you recorded it (which I do).


Scattered

speedo
10-29-05, 02:49 PM
I'm pretty much in the world with no support from anyone. I don't mind that. I do get a bit tired and feel a bit down when my well-meaning freinds try to offer some godawful opionion or "good advice". Unfortunately, this causes me to avoid my friends a lot...

I also get tired of listening to people say things that are just plain wrong, cruel, or dumb.. and then offering it to me as some kind of "advice". I find it offensive and I wish they would stop... I guess, with human nature being wha tit is , there is not much of a chance of that happening...

Now and then I get tired of some dumb thing and I will "educate" someone ... it sometimes actually works...

I guess there is no way anyone can understand these things until they experience it for themselves.... so I guess we have to live in a world that is designed for everyone but us.

Me :D

Draga
10-31-05, 09:48 PM
I also get tired of listening to people say things that are just plain wrong, cruel, or dumb.. and then offering it to me as some kind of "advice". I find it offensive and I wish they would stop... I guess, with human nature being wha tit is , there is not much of a chance of that happening...



Great minds rage alike, shugga

speedo
10-31-05, 10:14 PM
Shock therapy is one of the most misused techniques in history. I can not say enough bad things about it. I am amazed to see that it is used anywhere and I was under the impression that it was no longer used in the United States..

To my way of thinking it is just a form of violence that the medical community administers to captive patients with severe depression.

I have seen people who were given EST , and I witnessed how it affected them, and I know of at least one person who still reports some long term memory loss decades after the fact. It is particularly unplesant and a terribly drastic thing to do to another human being.

Me :D


Whoa, I missed this post completely the first time... :) You probably can't read Polish, but there's an abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2084714&dopt=Abstract that mentions a 63% rate of full remission in combination with antidepressant treatment. It is extremely safe and the most severe common side effect is a temporary short-term memory loss. I wouldn't try it unless nothing else worked, but it's definitely highly effective.

Edit: Forgot to add that over 90% of the patients in this study had "some improvement."

speedo
10-31-05, 10:15 PM
I just had to rant after I realized the earlier post was about EST.

ME :D

speedo
10-31-05, 10:17 PM
I wish I knew how to change the world, I really do.

ME :D


Great minds rage alike, shugga

Draga
10-31-05, 11:15 PM
I wish I knew how to change the world, I really do.

ME :D

One smelly diaper at a time i should think :D ....if we knew the answer to that things would be different by now

scuro
11-01-05, 12:09 AM
I'll throw in my two cents here since both my brother and father were mentally ill at certain points in their lives.

Mentally ill..being irrational, not making sense, not capable of communicating with others.

My brother and father were both capable of telling me things, but in their worst states, what I said had little or no impact on their thought process. It was basically a one way conversation.

Draga
11-01-05, 12:12 AM
I think we are all guilty in someway of only hearing and believeing what we want to hear cause it is hard to handle truth. I can be a big person and admit this...but hey we're only human contradictory to popular belief lol

scuro
11-01-05, 12:26 AM
I think we are all guilty in someway of only hearing and believeing what we want to hear cause it is hard to handle truth....

When you are mentally ill, you may not be able to recognize truth.

That's the thing Mel, mental illness fluctuates. My dad was rational for long periods of time and then he would go a little over the top, usually on the top of a high or coming down. He knew this about himself and would take off to the mountains then...until he was rational again. My brother, on the other hand, could be irrational for months at a go. He was Schizoid Affective.

Draga
11-01-05, 12:43 AM
Remembering that my ex was schizophrenic...I have to agree with ya in that respect...he let his insecurites and imagination cloud his reason and judgment.