View Full Version : Thought It was only ADD


00MJR
02-15-11, 05:02 PM
I've had issues most of my life(that I can remember) relating to social interaction, anxiety, and maybe even OCD.

I was dx'd by my GP for anxiety and ADD. I'm currently on Adderall XR and Zoloft.

These meds have helped somewhat with how my mind works. It's calmed down my random thoughts and re leaved some anxiety. I can pay attention somewhat better and I'm more motivated to do extra things I usually wouldn't.

My social life (particualry my marraige) has become worse each day it seems. My wife will try to tell me her emotions and how she feels. It's getting to the point that she's almost fed up with how I act and respond.

I care for her and love her but it's hard to remember things. If they aren't interesting I just won't remember. I try to remember but it's hard.

I thought at 1st the ADD was the only thing that was holding me back from my social issues but even now I still feel incapable of socializing correctly.

I can't pick up on social ques. Body language and whatnot is difficult for me. I usually don't realize the "big picture" but all the separate issues. Then I will pick one issue and stick with it. Get lost in it and won't remember why I'm even saying what I'm saying.

I'm good at things that I like... Seems selfish but one main interest is computers. I'm picky and I always have to make sure my computer is perfect. Really anything that I like I can remember easily and I feel gifted. I like computers and I'm good with them. I like drawing and I'm good at it. I like math and I'm good at it.

Another thing is I will start on an issue and I won't see anything else in my life but that issue. Say when I wait for a response on here I won't care about anything else. I'll will keep wanting to see a response. It will become hard for me to forget about it.

I feel like a have a horrible memory. People will tell me their name or my wife will say something. If it's not interesting I'll forget about it.

It's hard for me to really think on what I'm going to say and look into someones eyes. If it's a simple answer I can look into their eyes cause I already know the answer but if I don't or I have to explain how I feel I can't think or say the correct thing while looking into someones eyes.

I also tend to talk louder then needed and will talk off subject. I'll listen to someones feelings but then I will end up talking about mine. How my feelings relate to theirs. Overall my social interaction is poor.

I make sarcastic jokes that no one else understands. Then I won't understand there jokes most of the time.

I also like routines and I like to know what I'm doing ahead or time.

It's frustrating overall and I feel stuck. I work hard on my issues but in the end I get told that it hasn't helped or it's worse.

fracturedstory
02-15-11, 06:56 PM
Sounds somewhat like AS.
Yeah, I don't really know what to say to make it any easier for you. I've kind of given up on getting better social skills.
Maybe watch people while they're conversing with each other and try to mimic it.

Fortune
02-15-11, 07:42 PM
I think I have AS too (and at this point I am pretty certain of it, despite not yet having an official diagnosis):


I can't pick up on social ques. Body language and whatnot is difficult for me. I usually don't realize the "big picture" but all the separate issues. Then I will pick one issue and stick with it. Get lost in it and won't remember why I'm even saying what I'm saying.

Do you primarily do this verbally or in text as well? I do get stuck in separate issues and even pick one issue to stick with both in text and verbally. I tend to get lost easily in what I'm saying until I forget what I was trying to say verbally - but with text I can always read what I've already written to get back on track.

I'm good at things that I like... Seems selfish but one main interest is computers. I'm picky and I always have to make sure my computer is perfect. Really anything that I like I can remember easily and I feel gifted. I like computers and I'm good with them. I like drawing and I'm good at it. I like math and I'm good at it.

Do these interests actually interfere with other things? Like do they dominate your life in some way?

I know mine do. I generally have one interest I focus on at any given time to the exclusion most everything else. It's not like the only thing I do every day but it is the thing I am most likely to be doing on any given day.

Another thing is I will start on an issue and I won't see anything else in my life but that issue. Say when I wait for a response on here I won't care about anything else. I'll will keep wanting to see a response. It will become hard for me to forget about it.

Yes. I've had states like this last for weeks until I worked out how to resolve them.

I feel like a have a horrible memory. People will tell me their name or my wife will say something. If it's not interesting I'll forget about it.

I don't know if it's interesting or not but I tend to forget people's names when I meet them face to face. It can take a bit before I actually manage to hold onto a name.

If I meet them online first, names are easier to remember.

It's hard for me to really think on what I'm going to say and look into someones eyes. If it's a simple answer I can look into their eyes cause I already know the answer but if I don't or I have to explain how I feel I can't think or say the correct thing while looking into someones eyes.

I find making eye contact painful and it becomes difficult to concentrate in general. I also, if I try to make eye contact, don't know when I should stop - although I usually stop fairly quickly because it's so uncomfortable.

I also tend to talk louder then needed and will talk off subject. I'll listen to someones feelings but then I will end up talking about mine. How my feelings relate to theirs. Overall my social interaction is poor.

I wish I could find a quote, but there's a blog post somewhere where the author describes relating to other people's experiences by describing your own is a fairly autistic thing to do (it's how she intellectualizes empathy, and I do exactly the same thing). I think non-autistic people do it too, but I am not sure that they rely on it, that they need it to establish a context for the other person's experience. Does this sound familiar?

I used to speak very quietly, in high school I learned to project my voice and I spoke too loudly everywhere and didn't realize. After a roommate harangued me for it, I spoke too quietly again for a long time. I don't know what my voice is like now, but people seem to hear me okay.

I make sarcastic jokes that no one else understands. Then I won't understand there jokes most of the time.

I relate to this. I understand jokes, but it can take me a bit longer to process them, and my sarcasm tends to get me in trouble with some people. I like to deadpan the exact opposite of what I mean, and people seem to take that seriously.

I also like routines and I like to know what I'm doing ahead or time.

It's frustrating overall and I feel stuck. I work hard on my issues but in the end I get told that it hasn't helped or it's worse.

Do you have a therapist or a psychiatrist to talk to about this? It sounds like what you have is worth exploring further. It's not a guarantee you have AS, because I've seen some of these signs in other ADHDers (online, at least), although perhaps not all of these signs at once.

I don't really have any advice on coping at the moment. I dealt with socialization in my 20s through imitation as fracturedstory suggests, and it worked okay, given that the majority of my socialization was directly relevant to my interests.

nova2012
02-15-11, 08:42 PM
A lot of these do sound like AS traits.

Can you try taking these quizzes and let me know what scores you get?

Empathy Quotient quiz: http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuotient.aspx

Mind in the Eyes (reading facial expressions given only the eyes): http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/Faces/EyesTest.aspx

AQ test: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

Systemizing Quotient: http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/SystemizingQuotient/SystemizingQuotient.aspx

Generally, AS/autists score low on the EQ (lower than 32, usually), low on mind in the eyes (lower than 22, usually), high on the AQ test (higher than 30-something, IIRC), and high on the systemizing quotient (forget the score). But this isn't true for all Aspies or autists.

I wish I could find a quote, but there's a blog post somewhere where the author describes relating to other people's experiences by describing your own is a fairly autistic thing to do (it's how she intellectualizes empathy, and I do exactly the same thing). I think non-autistic people do it too, but I am not sure that they rely on it, that they need it to establish a context for the other person's experience. Does this sound familiar?

It seems like a lot of people do this. Surely I do. I'm not sure if I rely on it, but it's certainly helpful.

I used to speak very quietly, in high school I learned to project my voice and I spoke too loudly everywhere and didn't realize. After a roommate harangued me for it, I spoke too quietly again for a long time. I don't know what my voice is like now, but people seem to hear me okay.

Funny, I've been told I talk too loudly, too, but only when really excited and, thus, inattentive/impulsive. I do have problems modulating the volume of my voice, though--although I'm aware of it.

I relate to this. I understand jokes, but it can take me a bit longer to process them, and my sarcasm tends to get me in trouble with some people. I like to deadpan the exact opposite of what I mean, and people seem to take that seriously.

An acquaintance would make jokes that I simply didn't find funny, but I forced myself to laugh to placate him. He once told me that his sense of humor was "British." I don't know if that was just an excuse, but I don't like British humor anyway (aside from Monty Python). :p

I suspected he also had Asperger's, though... or maybe some other condition. He talked about really unusual stuff like having seen ghosts before, when we were at a company Christmas party (he was the son of an employee); would butt in with the weirdest and most irrelevant things when I was in the middle of a conversation with someone else; and generally just seemed to be a little odd. He may have schizophrenia/schizotypal PD or something, though; I don't know what his story is. He doesn't seem to have issues maintaining eye contact, but he certainly does seem to have some issues relating to others. I hate to say this, but I never really felt comfortable hanging out with him, sadly.

00MJR
02-15-11, 08:44 PM
The social issues are usually verbally. I will get lost in the conversation and won't remember what the subject or main point was. I'll become so focused on what a person has said I'll forget what the point was...

The interests do sometimes interfere. Like for example I found a new way to do something to my computer or car I'll focus all my attention to that all day until it's complete. And I will try to stay up and not sleep until it's finished. It's very hard for me to wait till the next day to finish something I really have interest in. Anything that I really don't have much interest in I can usually put aside and do it later.

The eye contact... I can look at my wife's eyes without issue if we're not talking. If were talking and I need to think of answer to an unknown question.. I usually can't look into her eyes and say it. She thinks I'm dishonest about things... But she knows that's how I am.

I don't go to any psych. I've just been to the GP a few times though I'm thinking of going to a psych. I feel I have more then just ADD and anxiety issues. I feel there is more deeper issues that my mind is trying to figure out each day.


O another thing... I love video games and I'm an Electronic/Computer Engineer. I've read that some people with Aspergers are also engineers..

Well Thanks for the reply. It's nice talking to others. If I said all this to anyone I know that doesn't have these sort of issues they probably would not want to listen lol

hypergirl96
02-15-11, 08:52 PM
Sounds like Asbergs. you should probs get checked for it.

00MJR
02-15-11, 09:18 PM
Empathy Quotient quiz - I got a 13

Eyes - 23

AQ Test - 37

Systemizing Quotient + 40

nova2012
02-15-11, 09:33 PM
Empathy Quotient quiz - I got a 13

Eyes - 23

AQ Test - 37

Systemizing Quotient + 40

These results are not off the charts, by any means, but they are indicative--to me--of underlying Asperger's. Of course, only a professional can diagnose you in person. These are just "soft" indicators.

Your eye test score of 23 is higher (this is good) than that of average Aspies, who seem to score 15-20. Some, but few, manage to score 30 by intellectually studying and analyzing body language and facial expressions. Your empathy quotient is very low, indicating Asperger's or high-functioning autism. Your AQ result is average for people with Asperger's. Your systemizing quotient is also in the low range of average for people with Asperger's.

Here are my results:

Empathy quotient: 61

Eye test: 30 (another NT on an Aspie forum got 33... few seem to get all of them correct)

AQ test: 10 (edited--retook the test)

Systemizing quotient: 14

As far as I know, I have the following disorders: ADHD, OCD, social phobia, major depression/soft bipolar, maybe GAD.

OCD is associated with some autism-like behaviors, like cognitive rigidity, black-and-white thinking, catastrophizing, perseveration, verbosity, etc., but not really with systemizing, poor understanding of social cues, empathy issues, stimming, etc. There are also some advanced theory of mind deficits, although autistic spectrum disorders have more basic deficits.

It would be interesting to see what Fortune and fractured get, if they're willing to post their results. For that matter, it would be interesting to see what everyone on the forum gets. I love these kinds of tests.

Fortune
02-15-11, 11:59 PM
Generally, AS/autists score low on the EQ (lower than 32, usually), low on mind in the eyes (lower than 22, usually), high on the AQ test (higher than 30-something, IIRC), and high on the systemizing quotient (forget the score). But this isn't true for all Aspies or autists.

AQ: 37 (Aspie 31+, NT female: 9-23)
EQ: 23 (AS 9-33, NT female: 37-59)
FQ: 60 (AS 35-78, NT female: 74-106)
SQ: 46 (AS 20-52, NT female: 15-34)
SQ-R: 91 (AS 50-120, NT female: 25-70)

FQ is friendship quotient. SQ-R is revised systemizing quotient. By either scale I am an "extreme systemizer," which practically no NT females ever score as, but a lot of people on the spectrum do.

All the tests are here: http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/Asperger/Index.html

Mind in the Eyes: 19

Throwing in Aspie Quiz: http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

Your Aspie score: 156 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 62 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie

It seems like a lot of people do this. Surely I do. I'm not sure if I rely on it, but it's certainly helpful.Right, which is why I said autistics aren't the only people who do this, but (if what I read on this blog is correct - and it is correct for me on many occasions, so take that for what it's worth) at least some use this to intellectualize a connection to better understand someone else's experience and thus empathize with them. It sounds self-centered, though, and it helps to just think that through and then express the empathy without explaining the process. Too bad that's easier said than...well, said.

Funny, I've been told I talk too loudly, too, but only when really excited and, thus, inattentive/impulsive. I do have problems modulating the volume of my voice, though--although I'm aware of it.I did not reliably know how loudly I spoke until...probably in the past 15 or so years, I think? I either spoke too loudly or too quietly and didn't realize it until people pointed it out and I tried to correct. At some point I hit a volume where people could reliably hear me and I did not make them complain that I was too loud.

The social issues are usually verbally. I will get lost in the conversation and won't remember what the subject or main point was. I'll become so focused on what a person has said I'll forget what the point was...

I do this a lot. It's one of the many things that are frustrating, verbally. I especially hate getting caught up in someone else's worldview, because I then end up arguing around a position that don't necessarily believe in or support and would rather just let it go, but I get caught up in the conversation. It's not that I'm influenced - I'm not. It's that what I am saying is now disconnected from what I am thinking.

The interests do sometimes interfere. Like for example I found a new way to do something to my computer or car I'll focus all my attention to that all day until it's complete. And I will try to stay up and not sleep until it's finished. It's very hard for me to wait till the next day to finish something I really have interest in. Anything that I really don't have much interest in I can usually put aside and do it later.Yeah, I know how this goes. Sometimes something will hit me when I'm trying to sleep and I can't let it go to get to sleep.

The eye contact... I can look at my wife's eyes without issue if we're not talking. If were talking and I need to think of answer to an unknown question.. I usually can't look into her eyes and say it. She thinks I'm dishonest about things... But she knows that's how I am.I hate unknown/surprise questions. When I'm in this kind of situation I can't always adequately explain myself because it's such unfamiliar ground. If I have time to think I can answer, but NTs take that as a sign of dishonesty.

I don't make eye contact when talking although I've been making it while listening to see if it really does make my eyes hurt - and yes, every single time. Even a photograph did it once.

I don't go to any psych. I've just been to the GP a few times though I'm thinking of going to a psych. I feel I have more then just ADD and anxiety issues. I feel there is more deeper issues that my mind is trying to figure out each day.Yeah, I hear you. This is how I was feeling this past September when my depression returned - it was pretty clear that ADHD didn't explain everything, but it took a bit for me to work back around to what I'd first thought a few years ago. Everything started to fall into place.

O another thing... I love video games and I'm an Electronic/Computer Engineer. I've read that some people with Aspergers are also engineers..

Well Thanks for the reply. It's nice talking to others. If I said all this to anyone I know that doesn't have these sort of issues they probably would not want to listen lolNo problem - I haven't really talked about them here before (tons of reasons) so it's good to do so.

I hope this all helped.

nova2012
02-16-11, 12:06 AM
AQ: 37 (Aspie 31+, NT female: 9-23)
EQ: 23 (AS 9-33, NT female: 37-59)
FQ: 60 (AS 35-78, NT female: 74-106)
SQ: 46 (AS 20-52, NT female: 15-34)
SQ-R: 91 (AS 50-120, NT female: 25-70)

FQ is friendship quotient. SQ-R is revised systemizing quotient. By either scale I am an "extreme systemizer," which practically no NT females ever score as, but a lot of people on the spectrum do.

All the tests are here: http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/Asperger/Index.html

Mind in the Eyes: 19

Throwing in Aspie Quiz: http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

Your Aspie score: 156 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 62 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie

Thanks for posting the ranges and the additional tests; didn't know about them.

Forgot about the rdos test... don't feel like doing it for the eleventy billionth time again, but I believe I got 85 of 200 for Aspie and 150 of 200 for NT... but I really could be mistaken.

Right, which is why I said autistics aren't the only people who do this, but (if what I read on this blog is correct - and it is correct for me on many occasions, so take that for what it's worth) at least some use this to intellectualize a connection to better understand someone else's experience and thus empathize with them. It sounds self-centered, though, and it helps to just think that through and then express the empathy without explaining the process. Too bad that's easier said than...well, said.

That makes some sense.

Fortune
02-16-11, 12:30 AM
I did score 24 on the AQ a few months ago (posted in another thread here), but after I took the Aspie Quiz, EQ, and SQ, and scored pretty high, I realized some of the questions did not mean what I thought they meant and took it again looking at what seems to be the correct interpretations of the questions...and got much higher. Obviously the quizzes are subjective, but the only time - and the only quiz - where I scored below the expected ASD range was that one time. All the other quizzes scored well into the ASD range.

I overestimated / misunderstood the questions about empathy and socializing. Partly, I took how I socialize on the internet as well as my ability to express empathy on the internet and used that information to answer the questions, and, er, no. In real life I do so much worse at these things, and what I interpreted social chit-chat to mean is not what most NTs interpret it to mean. I thought of it as talking to my friends even if it's about my interests, and that's not the case.

Fortune
02-16-11, 01:19 AM
Thanks for posting the ranges and the additional tests; didn't know about them.

Forgot about the rdos test... don't feel like doing it for the eleventy billionth time again, but I believe I got 85 of 200 for Aspie and 150 of 200 for NT... but I really could be mistaken.

There's also an EQ/SQ page that compares your EQ and SQ scores and tells you whether you're an empathizer or systemizer (http://eqsq.com/eq-sq-tests/).

That makes some sense.I think there's a tendency when some people hear about a particular behavior or coping mechanism to suggest "Well, lots of people do that," and this is totally true. But I think that strips away the context in which the behavior comes up. Like, it may be far more frequent, "severe" if that's applicable, much more necessary for functioning, or much more disabling than it is for other people.

It's like people saying "Well, everyone loses their keys sometimes" or "Most people get distracted occasionally" without accounting for how the key loss may be a daily problem and the distraction may happen constantly throughout the day, whereas everyone or most people do not experience it nearly to that extent.

And really, most of these behaviors aren't even diagnostic, they're simply common experiences that people who fit into particular categories share. None of them will say whether you're autistic or ADHD or whatever, but they may be things that other autistic people or ADHDers can relate to, which is a way to establish a kind of common ground.

nova2012
02-16-11, 01:39 AM
I did score 24 on the AQ a few months ago (posted in another thread here), but after I took the Aspie Quiz, EQ, and SQ, and scored pretty high, I realized some of the questions did not mean what I thought they meant and took it again looking at what seems to be the correct interpretations of the questions...and got much higher. Obviously the quizzes are subjective, but the only time - and the only quiz - where I scored below the expected ASD range was that one time. All the other quizzes scored well into the ASD range.

I overestimated / misunderstood the questions about empathy and socializing. Partly, I took how I socialize on the internet as well as my ability to express empathy on the internet and used that information to answer the questions, and, er, no. In real life I do so much worse at these things, and what I interpreted social chit-chat to mean is not what most NTs interpret it to mean. I thought of it as talking to my friends even if it's about my interests, and that's not the case.

That's a persistent doubt with me: "am I interpreting the questions correctly? Maybe I'd score higher if it turns out I'm not!" But, in the end, I think it's just my pervasive self-doubt (and maybe some OCD) rearing its ugly head.

Fortune
02-16-11, 01:54 AM
I didn't really have doubts, was just confused by getting a 24 because I've known for awhile that I might have AS. I think you're much less likely to interpret the questions wrong on all of the quizzes, though.

But here's another one:

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/the-broad-autism-phenotype-test

I don't remember my scores, but they were above cutoff in all three, which told me:

You scored above the cutoff on all three scales. Clearly, you are either autistic or on the broader autistic phenotype. You probably are not very social, and when you do interact with others, you come off as strange or rude without meaning to. You probably also like things to be familiar and predictable and don't like changes, especially unexpected ones.

I think it was selling it a bit hard. Also, it's OKCupid.

fracturedstory
02-16-11, 02:27 AM
EQ: 16

Eyetest: 25

AQ: 42

SQ: 61

FQ: 25

Do I really need to do the aspie quiz again? I've got as high as 180 before. Might be 160 now.

Also,

Autistic/BAP
You scored 126 aloof, 129 rigid and 115 pragmatic

Fortune
02-16-11, 02:30 AM
No, I just wanted to throw that in for completeness' sake.

nova2012
02-16-11, 02:30 AM
Yeah, I was just saying that for me, it was a question of self-doubt and trying to make something fit that really didn't.

This question, "When I make conversation with casual acquaintances it is just to be polite," is ridiculously ambiguous. I mean, if one is autistic, presumably the answer would be "rarely," right, since theoretically, politeness is not generally a huge consideration? If one is neurotypical, however, a lot of NTs don't "enjoy" conversation with "casual acquaintances." I don't even know what "casual acquaintance" means.

Also, "Conversation with casual acquaintances bores me." Way too generalized and, again, ambiguous, IMO.

Anyway, my result:

Neurotypical
You scored 56 aloof, 48 rigid and 74 pragmatic
You scored below cutoff on all three subscales, suggesting that you are not on the broader autistic phenotype.


You scored 56% on aloof, higher than 3% of your peers.

You scored 48% on rigid, higher than 2% of your peers.

You scored 74% on pragmatic, higher than 23% of your peers.

You scored 3% on diagnosis, higher than 24% of your peers.

Interestingly, I score highest on "pragmatic," which is also what happened when I took this test before. I believe last time, I got an 85% on that, which then led the quiz to tell me I was on the BAP. I was also OCDing about the fact that I may be Asperger's at the time and was over-analyzing every question and trying to see how it might fit.

Like you said, it is OkCupid--not exactly a scientifically validated source. And, the BAP as a whole is somewhat controversial, from my understanding.

fracturedstory
02-16-11, 02:39 AM
When I talk to people to just be polite it's usually for a few minutes before I go to my room or a quiet area. It's so people don't complain that I'm always in my room.
And most conversations bore me.

Fortune
02-16-11, 02:49 AM
When I talk to people to just be polite it's usually for a few minutes before I go to my room or a quiet area. It's so people don't complain that I'm always in my room.
And most conversations bore me.

^^^--- This

I make extra effort for my nieces and nephew, but even then I socialize maybe 15-20 minutes on a typical day.

fracturedstory
02-16-11, 04:03 AM
It's about 3 minutes for me. Then again it's mostly just me at home.

00MJR
02-16-11, 12:17 PM
lol yeah. During the day at work I usually don't talk to anyone unless they say something first. I usually only start a convoy when it's about me. I try to ask how others are and what there doing but I really don't pay attention to it. I try at first to listen and be that kind friend that listens and understands but it will end up boring me and I will not care. One thing that I've always done is I listen and just make fun on the opinions and thoughts other people have(in my head). If I say the joke out loud it usually doesn't make sense to others or it's not really that funny(stupid jokes)...

Fortune
02-16-11, 02:30 PM
It's about 3 minutes for me. Then again it's mostly just me at home.

Yeah, there are seven other people here, some of whom initiate conversations with me when I'm getting food or whatever. I can deal with the talking, just as long as I can get back to my stuff.

lol yeah. During the day at work I usually don't talk to anyone unless they say something first. I usually only start a convoy when it's about me. I try to ask how others are and what there doing but I really don't pay attention to it. I try at first to listen and be that kind friend that listens and understands but it will end up boring me and I will not care. One thing that I've always done is I listen and just make fun on the opinions and thoughts other people have(in my head). If I say the joke out loud it usually doesn't make sense to others or it's not really that funny(stupid jokes)...

Yeah, I get the failed jokes (and successful jokes as well!) so it all works out. An acquaintance asked me once how I managed to say so many funny things and I said I just said a lot of things in the hopes that something would stick. That wasn't completely true (but partially was), but it sounded good.

00MJR
02-16-11, 03:35 PM
I've been listening to my boss and others talking about internet packages. I can't stand listening cause I could correct them on so many things they don't understand or they think they know. Talking about gaming and whatnot. This is where I sit back and make fun of their thoughts. It drives me crazy.

and also today my wife said something about getting pizza this morning when I was half asleep. I txt'd her asking about pizza hut... she said something cheap, even soup would be fine, she didn't want to make dinner. I then asked her if she wanted pizza still since she mentioned soup... after this all happened i see she was talking about just cheap pizza but when she said soup i got stuck on that idea and i didn't understand that hint.

BLAH! today is rough. I also didn't take my adderall this morning so my random thoughts and whatnot are back full throttle.

I didn't realize how much the addy helped until I forgot it today. I never say the other AS things until I was on addy for my ADD. When I'm not on addy I can't even think that far until I drive myself nuts. It's worse now since I know how it's so much better on addy.

BLEH

nova2012
02-16-11, 06:28 PM
I've been listening to my boss and others talking about internet packages. I can't stand listening cause I could correct them on so many things they don't understand or they think they know. Talking about gaming and whatnot. This is where I sit back and make fun of their thoughts. It drives me crazy.

I'm sometimes guilty of the same thing. However, in my case, I think it's because of social anxiety and my ego compensating for my low self-esteem--kind've like a schoolyard bully, only I'm not actually acting on those thoughts.

fracturedstory
02-16-11, 08:30 PM
I don't think it's always to do with social anxiety or an ego. I used to think I was being helpful by correcting people. I couldn't just let them believe a lie.

Fortune
02-16-11, 08:36 PM
I don't think it's always to do with social anxiety or an ego. I used to think I was being helpful by correcting people. I couldn't just let them believe a lie.

Me too.

I still get caught up in trying to explain what I said when people misinterpret. I hate people when believe I said something I didn't say, or at least didn't intend to say.

nova2012
02-16-11, 10:14 PM
I don't think it's always to do with social anxiety or an ego. I used to think I was being helpful by correcting people. I couldn't just let them believe a lie.

I don't like others believing lies, either. Gets me into a lot of trouble.

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-17-11, 02:26 AM
A lot of these do sound like AS traits.

Can you try taking these quizzes and let me know what scores you get?

Empathy Quotient quiz: http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuotient.aspx

Mind in the Eyes (reading facial expressions given only the eyes): http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/Faces/EyesTest.aspx

AQ test: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

Systemizing Quotient: http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/SystemizingQuotient/SystemizingQuotient.aspx

Thanks for the tests. I'd rep the post if it didn't say that I had to spread more rep around first.

nova2012
02-17-11, 03:27 AM
Thanks for the tests. I'd rep the post if it didn't say that I had to spread more rep around first.

No problem. If you don't mind, I'd like some more data/reference points, if you don't mind posting your scores.

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-17-11, 03:40 AM
No problem. If you don't mind, I'd like some more data/reference points, if you don't mind posting your scores.

Sure.

empathy - 10
eyes - 24
AQ - 48
systemizing - 45

I have untreated ADD and OCD, and possibly Asperger's. The first two disorders are for sure, but yeah, I don't know about the Asperger's. Or maybe I've got psychopathy instead of Asperger's considering the lack of empathy combined with a normal score on the eye test. I don't know. Too ignorant, and too consistently sleep deprived to have a good working thinking cap.

nova2012
02-17-11, 03:44 AM
Sure.

empathy - 10
eyes - 24
AQ - 48
systemizing - 45

I have untreated ADD and OCD, and possibly Asperger's. The first two disorders are for sure, but yeah, I don't know about the Asperger's. Too ignorant and too damn consistently sleep deprived to have a good thinking cap too.

Thanks.

Most of those scores are certainly within AS range. It makes me wonder how many people here actually have untreated Asperger's. I'd wager it's at least 2-5%. There seems to be a lot of misdiagnosis as far as people being diagnosed with ADHD when they really have Asperger's, but not so much the other way around.

Of course, you can't confirm that you have Asperger's until you consult a mental health professional... if you want to go down that road. Ignorance is... err, maybe not bliss, but perhaps better than the alternative.

How does your OCD manifest?

Fortune
02-17-11, 03:46 AM
Of course, you can't confirm that you have Asperger's until you consult a mental health professional... if you want to go down that road. Ignorance is... err, maybe not bliss, but perhaps better than the alternative.


Tony Attwood suggests a significantly high percentage of self-diagnoses are accurate.

Also, could you elaborate "ignorance is perhaps better than the alternative" a bit?

nova2012
02-17-11, 03:57 AM
Tony Attwood suggests a significantly high percentage of self-diagnoses are accurate.

I'm not denying that at all. I've self-diagnosed everything that I have perfectly. I'm just saying it would be irresponsible of me or anyone to encourage self-diagnosis for something so pervasive with no consultation or involvement of a professional. While unlikely, it's possible there are other factors at play. In addition, he indicated he didn't know much about the syndrome, so unless he starts dedicating time to learning about it, consulting a professional is probably the more practical and definitive way to get an answer--if that's what he wants.

Also, could you elaborate "ignorance is perhaps better than the alternative" a bit?

I just mean that sometimes, we don't want to know everything that's wrong with us--out of sight, out of mind kinda thing. If a diagnosis is presented to us, we have no choice but to deal with it--either by confronting it or denying it. If we choose to do nothing, we might not like not knowing, but the possibility that an undesirable outcome won't eventuate provides a constant glimmer of hope, or the ability to sweep our concerns under the rug, that's missing if we have a solid diagnosis that, indeed, proves in some way that we are "defective."

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-17-11, 04:32 AM
How does your OCD manifest?

Going to keep the answer short because my head is tired.

Well honestly, I'm not terribly well educated on OCD.

I don't have intrusive thoughts. When I read about people's intrusive thoughts, I think "Wow, crazy. Definitely not me!".

I've heard OCD called "the doubting disorder", and that is TOTALLY me. If there's something that I'm really concerned about that causes a good deal of anxiety, I'll check it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over because when I check something, the feedback from the check just does not register and so I keep checking it over and over before finally I can get the answer to my checking to register enough for me to quit worrying whether or not something really is the way it is.

I'll check anything over and over at least a handful of times if it's important enough to me to know that something is so. To give some examples:

Say I "roll" up the power windows in the car. Once all the windows are up, I'll spend like usually at least 10 seconds and maybe even the better part of a minute pulling up on the four "window up" buttons on the driver's door so I can listen to the window motors and hear that the windows are indeed (probably) all the way up.

I'll lock the car quite a few times with the key FOB when I leave the car to make sure it's locked. I'll try opening the doors too, in order to make sure that the doors really are locked, even though I heard the doors lock and saw the headlights and taillights flash when I locked the doors with the FOB, and even saw the red light flashing on the dash that indicates that the doors are locked and the alarm is armed.

I'll check multiple times that the shifter is left in gear and the parking brake is set before i get out of the car. Then I'll look at both of them through the window once I get out of the car. Usually, I'll get back in to put the car in neutral so I can then put it right back in gear again and I'll disengage the parking brake so I can engage it again just to make sure they're set. I'll then repeat all this stuff a few times before leaving the car.

The biggest\worst example:

Back in the mid to middish-lateish 2000's when I was in in my early to earlyish-middish 20's, I drank every night in secret in front of my computer in my bedroom every single night for the last few hours of the day before bed when I was living at my parents'. I'd take a shower right before I did my chilling on the computer while drunk before bed. I was drinking in secret and tried to keep it that way. Since I didn't want my parents finding the bathroom in any other state but completely cleaned up after I showered and then coming into my bedroom to confront me, I would check everything to make sure it was perfect after the shower. I'd make sure the towels were hung perfectly, all the water was wiped up, no water on the toilet seat (there wouldn't be - I peed sitting down before the shower), no water on the counter, the faucets were all not dripping, the books and magazines in the miniature little bookshelf beside the toilet were organized right, and many other things. Well the OCD thing that I'm getting at is how many times I'd check everything. Often I'd spend like 10 minutes or something just checking the toilet lid for drops of liquid, and then come back to it after checking other stuff! I'd check the floor and countertop for 5 to 10 minutes each to make sure they were dry! Check for the towels for 5 minutes to make sure they were hung right. Check other stuff the same way! I'd just look at stuff for 5 or 10 or 15 or even more minutes just trying to get it to register in my head that what I was looking at was indeed the way it was! Note the exclamation points that I used in the previous sentences. I TOTALLY understand just how INSANE all this checking is! It'd be a good day if I got out of there with less than 20 minutes of checking after cleaning up after the shower. 30 minutes or so was more the norm. Sometimes it took as long as like 50 minutes or so! Then I'd spend quite a few minutes just staring at the lights in the hallway (while doing the counting stuff I do in my head while checking) that led to my bedroom just to make sure that they were indeed off! That's freaking NUTS! Then I'd do the same with my bedroom door to check that it was indeed closed and that the towel that I put at the base of it (on the inside my bedroom side of the door) wasn't letting the little light that my very, very dim monitor made (kept the lights off in my bedroom) be seen by those outside my bedroom door.

Daniel Amen's Type 3 "Overfocused" ADD\OCD\ODD mix fits me very well both as a child, and now at 28 years old.

sheila065
02-17-11, 05:38 AM
From what I understand AD/HD usually brings a few friends to the party!

I'm diagnosed and medicated for social anxiety, depression & recently ADD. Now it looks as though there may be a little OCD (likely) & Dyslexia (doubtful but a few traits for sure) in the mix.

So lets see if I have this straight now.......

ADD, ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, OCD & DYSLEXIA

Will that be all Ma'am?

No, I'd also like a.........

Venti, non-fat, no whip, extra hot, Vodka, Valium, Americano Misto......to go......please. :eek:

00MJR
02-17-11, 06:08 PM
Lately my Zoloft has been making be dizzy when it becomes time to take it. I just got approved to wean off of it slowly. So I'll end up only on Addy. The doc won't prescribe me more then 30MG XR a day of the addy but it certainly doesn't last the length I wish it did... 2x a day makes more sense to me...

Like I have 2 hrs left to take my zoloft 100mg and I'm dizzy to turn. Almost feel like I'm going to fall. Not fun...

Hope all is going well for you guys.

fracturedstory
02-17-11, 08:00 PM
I know some with high functioning autism and OCD. I think some autistic behaviours can lead to OCD. Some people with AS for example have to separate their food on the plate or only eat certain colour foods. I'm glad I love my messy stirfries. Those people would go insane trying to separate all the ingredients.
Anyway it is possible to have ADHD, OCD and AS.

On self diagnoses. I think it helps if you look into it really deeply. I've come across people that think they have AS because of what people say or from doing the AQ test. But those who obsess over it and constantly read about it are better at knowing if they have it for sure.
Doctors are not perfect. They can misdiagnose and over diagnose. And if you get one that has their own set criteria for AS you may only be diagnosed if you fit it.
The diagnoses I haven't self diagnosed myself with have never really helped me or were never even true to begin with. Severe depression? Because I was exhibiting autistic behaviours and held my head too close to paper when reading? And this was a whole panel of psychologists. Or how about being diagnosed 'lack of exercise' for hypoglycemic symptoms? Or told that you can't have seizures because you're too young?
My self dx of PMDD actually saved my life. Women know what that disorder is. All it took was to hear about it on Law & Order (who really go over the top with disorders) and research it. Leave it until I begin to notice my depression seems to only be for a few weeks leading to my period and then becoming severe up to the day it starts. It took a suicide attempt to be taken seriously. Actually no one knew about that but they did hear the meltdown that took place before it.
And I think my self dx of temporal lobe epilepsy (still not diagnosed) at least makes me feel like I'm not crazy. Because TLE is the closest form of epilepsy to a psychological disorder.
Doctors will always take the side of a drug they push. 'Well just because you're having seizures while on medication, even though you never had them prior to taking the drug, doesn't mean that the medication caused it.'

I think I know myself far too well to ever listen to a doctor. I've even refused seeing a therapist. I am my own therapist. I know there are some people that need them because they don't understand themselves that well but I think they're are those that do know themselves very well.

I probably went a bit off -topic there but...uhh...well...

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-18-11, 11:41 PM
This thread is no longer listed in the subforum that it's in (http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=77). Is there something I'm missing, or not seeing, or something?

EDIT: Nevermind, right after I posted this post, it's back for some reason. Is it going to disappear again after a while and then reappear when somebody posts on the thread?

nova2012
02-19-11, 01:04 AM
Going to keep the answer short because my head is tired.

Well honestly, I'm not terribly well educated on OCD.

I don't have intrusive thoughts. When I read about people's intrusive thoughts, I think "Wow, crazy. Definitely not me!".

I've heard OCD called "the doubting disorder", and that is TOTALLY me. If there's something that I'm really concerned about that causes a good deal of anxiety, I'll check it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over because when I check something, the feedback from the check just does not register and so I keep checking it over and over before finally I can get the answer to my checking to register enough for me to quit worrying whether or not something really is the way it is.

I'll check anything over and over at least a handful of times if it's important enough to me to know that something is so. To give some examples:

Say I "roll" up the power windows in the car. Once all the windows are up, I'll spend like usually at least 10 seconds and maybe even the better part of a minute pulling up on the four "window up" buttons on the driver's door so I can listen to the window motors and hear that the windows are indeed (probably) all the way up.

I'll lock the car quite a few times with the key FOB when I leave the car to make sure it's locked. I'll try opening the doors too, in order to make sure that the doors really are locked, even though I heard the doors lock and saw the headlights and taillights flash when I locked the doors with the FOB, and even saw the red light flashing on the dash that indicates that the doors are locked and the alarm is armed.

I'll check multiple times that the shifter is left in gear and the parking brake is set before i get out of the car. Then I'll look at both of them through the window once I get out of the car. Usually, I'll get back in to put the car in neutral so I can then put it right back in gear again and I'll disengage the parking brake so I can engage it again just to make sure they're set. I'll then repeat all this stuff a few times before leaving the car.

The biggest\worst example:

Back in the mid to middish-lateish 2000's when I was in in my early to earlyish-middish 20's, I drank every night in secret in front of my computer in my bedroom every single night for the last few hours of the day before bed when I was living at my parents'. I'd take a shower right before I did my chilling on the computer while drunk before bed. I was drinking in secret and tried to keep it that way. Since I didn't want my parents finding the bathroom in any other state but completely cleaned up after I showered and then coming into my bedroom to confront me, I would check everything to make sure it was perfect after the shower. I'd make sure the towels were hung perfectly, all the water was wiped up, no water on the toilet seat (there wouldn't be - I peed sitting down before the shower), no water on the counter, the faucets were all not dripping, the books and magazines in the miniature little bookshelf beside the toilet were organized right, and many other things. Well the OCD thing that I'm getting at is how many times I'd check everything. Often I'd spend like 10 minutes or something just checking the toilet lid for drops of liquid, and then come back to it after checking other stuff! I'd check the floor and countertop for 5 to 10 minutes each to make sure they were dry! Check for the towels for 5 minutes to make sure they were hung right. Check other stuff the same way! I'd just look at stuff for 5 or 10 or 15 or even more minutes just trying to get it to register in my head that what I was looking at was indeed the way it was! Note the exclamation points that I used in the previous sentences. I TOTALLY understand just how INSANE all this checking is! It'd be a good day if I got out of there with less than 20 minutes of checking after cleaning up after the shower. 30 minutes or so was more the norm. Sometimes it took as long as like 50 minutes or so! Then I'd spend quite a few minutes just staring at the lights in the hallway (while doing the counting stuff I do in my head while checking) that led to my bedroom just to make sure that they were indeed off! That's freaking NUTS! Then I'd do the same with my bedroom door to check that it was indeed closed and that the towel that I put at the base of it (on the inside my bedroom side of the door) wasn't letting the little light that my very, very dim monitor made (kept the lights off in my bedroom) be seen by those outside my bedroom door.

Daniel Amen's Type 3 "Overfocused" ADD\OCD\ODD mix fits me very well both as a child, and now at 28 years old.

This is all classic OCD. The intrusive thought--or obsession--is, "it's not or I don't know if it is the way it should be." The compulsion is to check it or look at it to make sure it's really the way it should be. Doubt is absolutely the most pervasive emotion with OCD and it extrapolates beyond the obvious OC behaviors to the person's general temperament.

I don't have these checking obsessions too bad, and that's fortunate, because if I did, I think I'd probably be dead right now. It wouldn't have taken much in these past few months to push me over the edge, and spending hours checking (like some can... not sure if this is you) every day would just motivate me further to commit suicide.

I also identify with Amen's "Overfocused" subtype, but I think his work is mostly unsubstantiated nonsense, at least the categories. I think his use of the SPECT scan is quite intriguing and I hope more research is done on it in the coming years to validate some of his ideas. But I think his subtypes will have to be heavily modified to have any scientific or clinical accuracy or relevance.

I'm sure I'll get, and maybe deserve, flak for this, but you don't "seem" autistic in any way in this thread. I can't really logically define what that means; it's just intuitive. I can sense certain tendencies in people whom I believe to have AS or autism and I've read wrongplanet.net quite a bit, too. Many have a rather cut and dry, sometimes almost stilted writing style with few emotive words or stories and the impression of almost being naive in some way. Idioms, expressions, banter/context-appropriate teasing, and jokes are all often sparse (I know Fortune said this isn't always true, and I believe that).

I've noticed some of these tendencies in some of my writing, especially when I was younger, which is one of the reasons I became almost convinced that I have Asperger's. Apparently, I don't, though. Maybe I'm just pedantic.

Fortune
02-19-11, 08:22 AM
I will admit I was in my early 20s before I started seriously using slang, and I tried to avoid contractions until my teens. There is still a ton of vernacular I will not touch if I can avoid it. I know how to write using more expressive language, and I know how much energy I've spent trying to portray myself in a particular - neurotypical - way. I also take advantage of text communication to type things out I'd never actually say. As my therapist says, I have "muted affect," and am not likely to display much emotion at all (or want to, really).

I don't think I'm particularly unusual in this regard, at least relative to other people on the spectrum.

What you don't see: The sensory overload, the fatigue from too much socializing, the fact that I was at a party for six hours and spent one of those hours near people but mostly not interacting with them, three of those hours mostly alone by choice, and two of those hours talking about one of my long-term special interests to someone who turned out to be a fan of some writing I'd done on the subject years ago. The fact that this degree of overstimulation and social interaction has left me feeling burnt out and exhausted. At no point during the evening did I feel any anxiety, but I certainly felt overwhelmed.

What I mean is, I guess, is that appearances are appearances, and if you've met an autistic person you've met an autistic person.

I realize your post wasn't aimed at me, but I wanted to contrast how I choose to write here vs. what may actually be happening, and how I've written and spoken in the past, and perhaps offer more detail than I did in PM.

fracturedstory
02-19-11, 06:43 PM
I can sense certain tendencies in people whom I believe to have AS or autism and I've read wrongplanet.net quite a bit, too. Many have a rather cut and dry, sometimes almost stilted writing style with few emotive words or stories and the impression of almost being naive in some way. Idioms, expressions, banter/context-appropriate teasing, and jokes are all often sparse (I know Fortune said this isn't always true, and I believe that).

Yep sounds like me.
The use of idioms and expressions will leave a confused look on my face for about 20 minutes.
A bit of teasing (even if just three words long) will start a flame war on Wrong Planet.

Fortune
02-19-11, 08:09 PM
Yep sounds like me.
The use of idioms and expressions will leave a confused look on my face for about 20 minutes.
A bit of teasing (even if just three words long) will start a flame war on Wrong Planet.

I used to find a lot more of them a lot more confusing, but over time I've learned what a lot of them mean. I do have to take a moment to translate them, otherwise, yes, not what the speaker/writer intended at all.

One thing that's not fun for me is making a joke and taking the response literally, thus causing an argument. Or just missing a joke in the first place.

avjgirsijdhtjhs
02-19-11, 11:17 PM
This is all classic OCD. The intrusive thought--or obsession--is, "it's not or I don't know if it is the way it should be."

Well I guess I do have intrusive thoughts then, now that you explain it that way. Like I said, I'm not well educated on OCD.

I'm sure I'll get, and maybe deserve, flak for this, but you don't "seem" autistic in any way in this thread. I can't really logically define what that means; it's just intuitive. I can sense certain tendencies in people whom I believe to have AS or autism and I've read wrongplanet.net quite a bit, too. Many have a rather cut and dry, sometimes almost stilted writing style with few emotive words or stories and the impression of almost being naive in some way. Idioms, expressions, banter/context-appropriate teasing, and jokes are all often sparse (I know Fortune said this isn't always true, and I believe that).

I'm even less knowledgeable on Asperger's than I am OCD, but my brother and mom suspect that I might have it to some degree (they both believe either that Asperger's is either a set of traits that people have with different degrees of intensity and\or a set of traits that people can have some or all of). My mom and brother have both commented on my intense interests that dominate my conversations. The scores (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1028248&postcount=30) I got on the tests you posted (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1027244&postcount=4) seem to me to suggest Asperger's too. I did fine on the Mind in the Eyes test (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1027244&postcount=4) that you posted, which according to my understanding (or maybe my "understanding", rather) would be something that someone with Asperger's would struggle with greatly. Wouldn't somebody with Asperger's perform horribly on that test????? My understanding or "understanding" of Asperger's is that a sufferer would be either absolutely TERRIBLE or completely unable to understand people's body\facial language, or be unable to recognize that people are communicating through their body language, even though they know that people cmmunicate through body\facial language. I think that IF I have that problem, that I probably only have it to a small degree at worst. Also, I'm definitely not anywhere near as socially awkward at the folks you'd find if you looked up videos of folks with Asperger's on YouTube.

Like I said, I really don't know much about about Asperger's, but if it's a syndrome that you either have or don't have, then I'd strongly think that I don't have it. If it's you can have some but not all of the traits, and\or have the traits to differing degrees of severity, then maybe I do have have some of the traits to a small or moderate degree. I don't know. I really don't.

fracturedstory
02-20-11, 01:33 AM
I used to find a lot more of them a lot more confusing, but over time I've learned what a lot of them mean. I do have to take a moment to translate them, otherwise, yes, not what the speaker/writer intended at all.

One thing that's not fun for me is making a joke and taking the response literally, thus causing an argument. Or just missing a joke in the first place.
I refuse to acknowledge that these phrases have any relevance in the English language.
How's that for rigid? ;)


I'm even less knowledgeable on Asperger's than I am OCD, but my brother and mom suspect that I might have it to some degree (they both believe either that Asperger's is either a set of traits that people have with different degrees of intensity and\or a set of traits that people can have some or all of). My mom and brother have both commented on my intense interests that dominate my conversations. The scores (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1028248&postcount=30) I got on the tests you posted (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1027244&postcount=4) seem to me to suggest Asperger's too. I did fine on the Mind in the Eyes test (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1027244&postcount=4) that you posted, which according to my understanding (or maybe my "understanding", rather) would be something that someone with Asperger's would struggle with greatly. Wouldn't somebody with Asperger's perform horribly on that test????? My understanding or "understanding" of Asperger's is that a sufferer would be either absolutely TERRIBLE or completely unable to understand people's body\facial language, or be unable to recognize that people are communicating through their body language, even though they know that people cmmunicate through body\facial language. I think that IF I have that problem, that I probably only have it to a small degree at worst. Also, I'm definitely not anywhere near as socially awkward at the folks you'd find if you looked up videos of folks with Asperger's on YouTube.

Like I said, I really don't know much about about Asperger's, but if it's a syndrome that you either have or don't have, then I'd strongly think that I don't have it. If it's you can have some but not all of the traits, and\or have the traits to differing degrees of severity, then maybe I do have have some of the traits to a small or moderate degree. I don't know. I really don't.
Wellll....
People with AS will be bad at recognising facial expressions and other body lanaguge in real time, with all those distractions going around. Many people at Wrong Planet do get ok scores.
The intense interest thing is very AS. With me people always have some idea of what I'm interested in.
What youtube videos are you talking about? Because I've seen a lot and people can look pretty high functioning to me. Sometimes they mix autism and AS people in the same video too.

Fortune
02-20-11, 02:03 AM
I refuse to acknowledge that these phrases have any relevance in the English language.
How's that for rigid? ;)

I can relate, although not as rigid. :)

I used to annoy some of my friends with rants about the usage of certain net slang acronyms and how they were the end of everything good in the world.

I picked up slang in my early 20s by imitating people I was talking to on BBSes - and it was a huge step. Now I still use the same terms and haven't really picked up any new ones. I picked up some net acronyms over the years, but I really resisted a lot of them and I still want nothing to do with many. If I ever use an acronym to indicate laughter, I've been replaced by an Auton.

Wellll....
People with AS will be bad at recognising facial expressions and other body lanaguge in real time, with all those distractions going around. Many people at Wrong Planet do get ok scores.
The intense interest thing is very AS. With me people always have some idea of what I'm interested in.
What youtube videos are you talking about? Because I've seen a lot and people can look pretty high functioning to me. Sometimes they mix autism and AS people in the same video too.

Yeah, reading the mind in the eyes is not like reading people's faces in real time. I don't even look at people's faces much unless they're several feet away, and then I look at everything but their eyes. I spent two hours talking to one person last night, and all I remember about her face is what her forehead looked like. Also her hair.

fracturedstory
02-20-11, 08:24 PM
I saw a documentary on OCD last night (strangely on the CI channel - crime investigation) and can now see the differences between OCD and autism.

For example I line up things because I like the look of order and it is usually during awkward moments when attempting to socialise. Something in my brain just triggers that everything needs to be straight. There's no intrusive or anxious thoughts making me do it.
Stacking things or putting things into categories also feels relaxing. The guy on the documentary did say doing his rituals felt like sex but again I don't really have any anxiety over it.
I do check switches and locks but that's because I actually do forget if I've clicked or locked them. I have been known to leave hot irons on all day and leave the oven on up to 10 minutes after being done cooking. And I only check things 1 or 2 times.
I can see how people are easily confused about whether they have autism/AS or OCD. Autistic behaviours that look like OCD are really a visual sensory thing. Or can even be done without the person thinking at all and not done in so much repetition. Although the more severe autism gets the more they repeat the actions. But I think the process is still soothing rather than a ritual to stop bad thoughts.
I do get intrusive thoughts but I can get rid of these without any rituals. So I guess I could develop OCD but I barely have any symptoms to say that I have it.
I don't know much about how OCD affects the brain and what regions it affects but most of these disorders usually occur in the same spot which can produce a bit of an overlap in symptoms.

nova2012
02-20-11, 08:41 PM
Regarding slang, I remember questioning it, which might be unusual in and of itself, and I refused to use the word "dude" in person. I thought it sounded stupid to say. I do use it in writing/texts, though. I don't have a huge problem with slang or idioms, because I think they're instruments of expression that serve different functions than more formal, concrete verbosity. I do, however, get annoyed when half of a person's writing (unless it's some type of creative writing) is idioms and metaphors.

Some idioms actually convey ideas that would otherwise be hard to explain. For example, consider "putting the cart before the horse." If anyone doesn't know, this basically means "one is thinking about something prematurely when he should be thinking about something else first," e.g. "John's talking about how he wants to get into Harvard Medical School, but his head is really in the clouds and he's [i]putting the cart before the horse [idiom]. He hasn't even finished his first year of undergrad and he has a 2.5 GPA!"

Tacky example, but you get the idea. Let's consider the alternative, without idioms: "John's talking about how he wants to get into Harvard Medical School, but he is extremely unrealistic, and instead of thinking about something that will happen in a matter of years, he should focus on his Bachelor's studies, which he's not even finished!"

Certainly, the second example is drier, more circuitous, and would be well-served by idioms (and contractions).

I certainly don't understand some idioms when they're used, and I will sometimes ask for clarification. I think I mentioned this in either this or another thread, but recently I read, in a personality inventory, "I tend to think that you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette." I had absolutely no idea what this meant and spent like 15 minutes trying to figure out before resorting to Google. In hindsight, I feel so stupid and it seems so obvious--and to most people, it probably would be. I feel crippled and defective in this way.

To anyone wondering, it basically means "if you want to achieve something, you have to be willing to take risks and make sacrifices."

Some idioms are best explained by others, which seems somewhat circular. For example, "over the hill" means "too old to do something" or "on one's last legs" (another idiom).

Anyway, this stuff is interesting to me. Idioms are actually processed in a non-literal way, and there are hemispheric differences in the ability to comprehend idioms: http://via.library.depaul.edu/etd/45/ I am most likely "right-brained" (I quote that because I don't know if it's that simple, but I digress), which might explain why I have trouble with some idioms.

I also have very poor verbal memory. Does anyone else have this issue? What I mean by that is sometimes, I forget the exact definitions of words I've used many times before or even the words themselves. I'm constantly having to resort to the Google "define:" feature because I seem to just ... forget words and definitions. Interestingly, I found this study correlating verbal memory deficits to untreated hypothyroidism: http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/19/2/132 I do have congenital hypothyroidism and I don't think it was optimally treated (hormone levels were slightly too low for most of my life, according to new research and guidelines). Hmm.

I'm even less knowledgeable on Asperger's than I am OCD, but my brother and mom suspect that I might have it to some degree (they both believe either that Asperger's is either a set of traits that people have with different degrees of intensity and\or a set of traits that people can have some or all of). My mom and brother have both commented on my intense interests that dominate my conversations. The scores (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1028248&postcount=30) I got on the tests you posted (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1027244&postcount=4) seem to me to suggest Asperger's too. I did fine on the Mind in the Eyes test (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1027244&postcount=4) that you posted, which according to my understanding (or maybe my "understanding", rather) would be something that someone with Asperger's would struggle with greatly. Wouldn't somebody with Asperger's perform horribly on that test????? My understanding or "understanding" of Asperger's is that a sufferer would be either absolutely TERRIBLE or completely unable to understand people's body\facial language, or be unable to recognize that people are communicating through their body language, even though they know that people cmmunicate through body\facial language. I think that IF I have that problem, that I probably only have it to a small degree at worst. Also, I'm definitely not anywhere near as socially awkward at the folks you'd find if you looked up videos of folks with Asperger's on YouTube.

Like I said, I really don't know much about about Asperger's, but if it's a syndrome that you either have or don't have, then I'd strongly think that I don't have it. If it's you can have some but not all of the traits, and\or have the traits to differing degrees of severity, then maybe I do have have some of the traits to a small or moderate degree. I don't know. I really don't.

According to most, Asperger's is something that you either have or don't have. I'm not sure if that's entirely true, but I do see how it could be. I also see how it may not be. The answer is that we probably don't know definitively. There is also the concept of the broader autistic phenotype, which you might exhibit. The BAP is less severe than autism or AS, but can still be impairing. Perhaps I have this, too...

Fortune
02-20-11, 08:51 PM
Or you can translate them intellectually.

I wanted to quote this, too:

"When adults with Asperger's syndrome have used imitation and acting to achieve superficial social competence, they can have considerable difficulty convincing people that they have a real problem with social understanding and empathy; they have become too plausible in their role to be believed."

From Tony Attwood's The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome.

Face to face for me, not so much. I spent the weekend with a couple of friends and I lost track of how many times they told me I misunderstood something because I took something they said literally. Text is so much easier for me.

Also, I believe that ADHDers also sometimes have literal interpretations for some reason.

nova2012
02-20-11, 10:51 PM
I saw a documentary on OCD last night (strangely on the CI channel - crime investigation) and can now see the differences between OCD and autism.

For example I line up things because I like the look of order and it is usually during awkward moments when attempting to socialise. Something in my brain just triggers that everything needs to be straight. There's no intrusive or anxious thoughts making me do it.
Stacking things or putting things into categories also feels relaxing. The guy on the documentary did say doing his rituals felt like sex but again I don't really have any anxiety over it.
I do check switches and locks but that's because I actually do forget if I've clicked or locked them. I have been known to leave hot irons on all day and leave the oven on up to 10 minutes after being done cooking. And I only check things 1 or 2 times.
I can see how people are easily confused about whether they have autism/AS or OCD. Autistic behaviours that look like OCD are really a visual sensory thing. Or can even be done without the person thinking at all and not done in so much repetition. Although the more severe autism gets the more they repeat the actions. But I think the process is still soothing rather than a ritual to stop bad thoughts.
I do get intrusive thoughts but I can get rid of these without any rituals. So I guess I could develop OCD but I barely have any symptoms to say that I have it.
I don't know much about how OCD affects the brain and what regions it affects but most of these disorders usually occur in the same spot which can produce a bit of an overlap in symptoms.

Yeah, for me, rituals are not a source of fun or relaxation. They are a source of great anxiety, yet paradoxically, they're designed to relieve anxiety. Essentially, the OCD brain is one gone haywire in certain cognitive filtering processes. I once read a good analogy about this: most people's thoughts were filtered by "nets" whose weave spacing is large enough that most thoughts are allowed to simply pass through. In obsessive-compulsives, however, this weaving is much tighter and certain thoughts simply get "stuck." This actually has a neurobiological equivalent: the caudate nucleus, one of the most important areas of the brain to OCD; it is very overactive in the OCD brain, and it's responsible for thought filtering. OCD treatment decreases activity in this area of the brain.

Or you can translate them intellectually.

What do you mean?

I wanted to quote this, too:

"When adults with Asperger's syndrome have used imitation and acting to achieve superficial social competence, they can have considerable difficulty convincing people that they have a real problem with social understanding and empathy; they have become too plausible in their role to be believed."

From Tony Attwood's The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome.[

Face to face for me, not so much. I spent the weekend with a couple of friends and I lost track of how many times they told me I misunderstood something because I took something they said literally. Text is so much easier for me.

Yeah, I know my social "competence" is not artificial or imitated, but I do know I have social skills deficits in certain areas. Maybe they're largely caused by my social anxiety and avoidant behavior during my adolescence (and still today, really).

Also, I believe that ADHDers also sometimes have literal interpretations for some reason.

I did a little research on that a while back and didn't see anything conclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is more prevalent than with NTs, if only due to inattention, i.e. not focusing on the true meaning.

Fortune
02-20-11, 11:36 PM
What do you mean?

I intellectually know what "don't judge a book by its cover" means. My immediate thought with this (and other expressions) is the literal meaning, but I can recall what it's supposed to mean because I have been exposed to it via other people frequently enough that it's left an impression. It may be one of the first metaphors I learned.

It's like learning the appropriate responses to, say, seeing a loved one cry.

Yeah, I know my social "competence" is not artificial or imitated, but I do know I have social skills deficits in certain areas. Maybe they're largely caused by my social anxiety and avoidant behavior during my adolescence (and still today, really).Could be. I'm saving that quote for the next time someone says my writing is too expressive. I mean, sure - it can be - but I used to write for a living, and I prefer to avoid unnecessary arguments. It's just a skill, like any other.

I did a little research on that a while back and didn't see anything conclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is more prevalent than with NTs, if only due to inattention, i.e. not focusing on the true meaning.There's a book out there by a mother with children who have AS and ADHD (not both in the same child), that talks about the similarities and possible links. I think that book talks about the literal interpretations.

nova2012
02-21-11, 12:42 AM
I intellectually know what "don't judge a book by its cover" means. My immediate thought with this (and other expressions) is the literal meaning, but I can recall what it's supposed to mean because I have been exposed to it via other people frequently enough that it's left an impression. It may be one of the first metaphors I learned.

It's like learning the appropriate responses to, say, seeing a loved one cry.

Ah, I understand. When I think about idioms, I often picture the literal meaning but apply it to whatever context I'm using it in. For instance, I sometimes literally picture "a cart before the horse," but I'll then intuitively know that when someone says it, they're just saying I'm doing things in the wrong order and my priorities are wrong. I know many autistics/AS have a very visual mind, and that they often picture the words and expressions they use, literally. I don't know if everyone pictures "breaking eggs to make an omelette" when using or hearing the idiom, and whether autistics/aspies would be more likely to do so. It would be interesting to do a study on this (if one hasn't been done, and I'm sure it has... too lazy to search though). Studies do indicate that idioms aren't processed literally, but that doesn't necessarily mean the literal image of the idiom doesn't pop up for a split second...

Could be. I'm saving that quote for the next time someone says my writing is too expressive. I mean, sure - it can be - but I used to write for a living, and I prefer to avoid unnecessary arguments. It's just a skill, like any other.

I need quotes like that for mental disorders I have! Since I'm not "objective" enough to tell people what's wrong with me :rolleyes:, maybe people would believe it if the source had an M.D. after their name.

There's a book out there by a mother with children who have AS and ADHD (not both in the same child), that talks about the similarities and possible links. I think that book talks about the literal interpretations.

That's interesting. Perhaps it's possible that her ADHD kid also has NVLD or is on the BAP or something. I don't know if I really believe that NVLD is anything other than maybe a variant of Asperger's, but it's possible he has "Asperger's lite." We don't really know that Asperger's needs to either exist or not exist.

Maybe being on the BAP would explain some of my issues. I don't know.

Fortune
02-21-11, 01:02 AM
Ah, I understand. When I think about idioms, I often picture the literal meaning but apply it to whatever context I'm using it in. For instance, I sometimes literally picture "a cart before the horse," but I'll then intuitively know that when someone says it, they're just saying I'm doing things in the wrong order and my priorities are wrong. I know many autistics/AS have a very visual mind, and that they often picture the words and expressions they use, literally. I don't know if everyone pictures "breaking eggs to make an omelette" when using or hearing the idiom, and whether autistics/aspies would be more likely to do so. It would be interesting to do a study on this (if one hasn't been done, and I'm sure it has... too lazy to search though). Studies do indicate that idioms aren't processed literally, but that doesn't necessarily mean the literal image of the idiom doesn't pop up for a split second...

Autistic people think in tons of different ways, and visual thinking is actually pretty common among the entire population.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I'll use an example from real life:

When I was evaluated for disability benefits last November, the woman who did the evaluation asked me "What does this mean: You can't judge a book by its cover." I wanted to answer (and probably should have, but she asked what it meant, not for the first thought that crossed my mind) that it meant that a book's cover is no indication of its quality. What I answered instead, which I had to stop and deliberately recall, was "You can't judge by appearances."

She did it wrong anyway, she's supposed to use a relatively unknown metaphor or one she created. Otherwise, well... who knows, I could have been diagnosed with AS after a one-hour interview. How likely is that?

Also, yes, I do visualize things literally.

I need quotes like that for mental disorders I have! Since I'm not "objective" enough to tell people what's wrong with me :rolleyes:, maybe people would believe it if the source had an M.D. after their name.

Maybe, maybe not. I love having citations, though. There's something satisfying about having facts at hand for many occasions.

That's interesting. Perhaps it's possible that her ADHD kid also has NVLD or is on the BAP or something. I don't know if I really believe that NVLD is anything other than maybe a variant of Asperger's, but it's possible he has "Asperger's lite." We don't really know that Asperger's needs to either exist or not exist.

Maybe, but I mean there are ADHDers on this forum who seem to not be autistic who do this as well. I mean the inspiration, but not the entire basis, of her book was her children. I think she documented well beyond that.

What does your last sentence mean?

Maybe being on the BAP would explain some of my issues. I don't know.

Possibly.

nova2012
02-21-11, 01:14 AM
Autistic people think in tons of different ways, and visual thinking is actually pretty common among the entire population.

This is true, but there is an increased correlation of autism/AS with visual thinking, from my understanding. E.g. http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/129/9/2484.abstract

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I'll use an example from real life:

I was just wondering whether having a literal image of an idiom or expression, even for a split second, is common among NTs as well as ADHDers/aspies/autistics.

When I was evaluated for disability benefits last November, the woman who did the evaluation asked me "What does this mean: You can't judge a book by its cover." I wanted to answer (and probably should have, but she asked what it meant, not for the first thought that crossed my mind) that it meant that a book's cover is no indication of its quality. What I answered instead, which I had to stop and deliberately recall, was "You can't judge by appearances."

She did it wrong anyway, she's supposed to use a relatively unknown metaphor or one she created. Otherwise, well... who knows, I could have been diagnosed with AS after a one-hour interview. How likely is that?

Yeah, that's a really stupid idiom to ask about. Probably woulda been better if she'd asked you the "break a few eggs" one. Most people haven't heard that one before, I don't think. It's not all that common.

You know, it's funny, because while your initial, literal interpretation wasn't what she was looking for, the analogy is spot on. Judging by appearances is much like a book's cover being unrevealing about its contents. This is, from my understanding, a "low-ambiguity" idiom. Others, like "kick the bucket," while common, are much more ambiguous. They don't really relate to death unless you know, and think at the time, about hanging as a suicide and execution method.

Maybe, maybe not. I love having citations, though. There's something satisfying about having facts at hand for many occasions.

True. :)

Maybe, but I mean there are ADHDers on this forum who seem to not be autistic who do this as well. I mean the inspiration, but not the entire basis, of her book was her children. I think she documented well beyond that.

How do you know they are "just" ADHDers? I'll bet you at least 2-5% of the folks here have Asperger's. It's not a rare misdiagnosis at all, and both can also be comorbid.

What does your last sentence mean?

I was saying that we don't really know whether Asperger's is truly a binary condition: either "on" (present) or "off" (not present). Schizophrenia, by contrast, is definitely either present or not present. There are not really any in-betweens.

Fortune
02-21-11, 02:10 AM
This is true, but there is an increased correlation of autism/AS with visual thinking, from my understanding. E.g. http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/129/9/2484.abstract

I was just wondering whether having a literal image of an idiom or expression, even for a split second, is common among NTs as well as ADHDers/aspies/autistics.[/quote]

That's interesting.

I actually find it difficult to think in words vs. images (these can be any or all senses, not just visual).

I don't know what NTs do.

Yeah, that's a really stupid idiom to ask about. Probably woulda been better if she'd asked you the "break a few eggs" one. Most people haven't heard that one before, I don't think. It's not all that common.

I've heard that one too.

You know, it's funny, because while your initial, literal interpretation wasn't what she was looking for, the analogy is spot on. Judging by appearances is much like a book's cover being unrevealing about its contents. This is, from my understanding, a "low-ambiguity" idiom. Others, like "kick the bucket," while common, are much more ambiguous. They don't really relate to death unless you know, and think at the time, about hanging as a suicide and execution method.

I realized after the evaluation that she asked the question to see if I think literally. I've talked to another therapist about it, who was all "no, that was a bad way to do it."

I would have liked something that's both ambiguous and relatively unknown.

How do you know they are "just" ADHDers? I'll bet you at least 2-5% of the folks here have Asperger's. It's not a rare misdiagnosis at all, and both can also be comorbid.

In one case, I'm pretty sure of it. I can't guarantee everyone else.

I was saying that we don't really know whether Asperger's is truly a binary condition: either "on" (present) or "off" (not present). Schizophrenia, by contrast, is definitely either present or not present. There are not really any in-betweens.

Ah, interesting.

nova2012
02-21-11, 03:15 AM
That's interesting.

I actually find it difficult to think in words vs. images (these can be any or all senses, not just visual).

I don't know what NTs do.

If you say "hello" to someone, does that evoke mental imagery for you? It doesn't for me. Does hello have any visual connotation? I mean, I can imagine a wave, but I don't. When I say "how are you?", which is a bit of an idiom in and of itself ("how are you what?"), I don't understand what type of mental imagery that can evoke. This also goes for the thoughts that precede speaking or typing them. In anticipating a conversation, I often imagine the particular dialogue and the other person's body language, facial expressions, etc., but the words are words.

If I'm thinking about how to spell something, occasionally I'll put it up on a mental chalkboard and see how it "looks," but that's relatively rare.

I realized after the evaluation that she asked the question to see if I think literally. I've talked to another therapist about it, who was all "no, that was a bad way to do it."

I would have liked something that's both ambiguous and relatively unknown.

Do you know, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth?" It's quite common, but it's also quite ambiguous.

In one case, I'm pretty sure of it. I can't guarantee everyone else.

I have my suspicions, too, but I see no reason to force this down anyone's throat. Being told you have another mental disorder just adds insult to injury (another cool idiom).

Fortune
02-21-11, 03:26 AM
If you say "hello" to someone, does that evoke mental imagery for you? It doesn't for me. Does hello have any visual connotation? I mean, I can imagine a wave, but I don't. When I say "how are you?", which is a bit of an idiom in and of itself ("how are you what?"), I don't understand what type of mental imagery that can evoke. This also goes for the thoughts that precede speaking or typing them. In anticipating a conversation, I often imagine the particular dialogue and the other person's body language, facial expressions, etc., but the words are words.

Hello: I visualize greeting someone.

How are you: I get confused. I don't know what this means. I know what the rote answer is, and my impulse is - because it makes no sense to me - to narrate my day. Thank you for giving me a headache. The literal meaning to me is "How are you doing right now?" but of course no one ever means that. Except therapists. Without warning.

I can imagine audible words, or written words, but I don't really think in words.

If I'm thinking about how to spell something, occasionally I'll put it up on a mental chalkboard and see how it "looks," but that's relatively rare.I visualize the word as above.

Do you know, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth?" It's quite common, but it's also quite ambiguous.I think I know what it means, although it actually does take more work to translate than the book metaphor. I think it means when you get something good, don't complain about it. I usually don't bother to translate it - I know the context it gets used in, so have a general idea what the speaker means, even though I visualize and understand it literally.

If she had asked me that one, yeah, there would have been obvious difficulty on my part, face-to-face.

I have my suspicions, too, but I see no reason to force this down anyone's throat. Being told you have another mental disorder just adds insult to injury (another cool idiom).I mean one I know for sure who only has ADHD.

nova2012
02-21-11, 03:40 AM
Hello: I visualize greeting someone.

How are you: I get confused. I don't know what this means. I know what the rote answer is, and my impulse is - because it makes no sense to me - to narrate my day. Thank you for giving me a headache.

I can imagine audible words, or written words, but I don't really think in words.

Hah, sorry. This is interesting and somewhat enlightening to me. Thanks.

Hope I'm not annoying you :), but I'm wondering a few other things. Do individual words have specific mental imagery associated with them? For example, if I say "intimidating," does something in particular come to mind? How about more generalized or abstract words like "physics" or "electricity?"

I think I know what it means, although it actually does take more work to translate than the book metaphor. I think it means when you get something good, don't complain about it. I usually don't bother to translate it - I know the context it gets used in, so have a general idea what the speaker means, even though I visualize and understand it literally.

If she had asked me that one, yeah, there would have been obvious difficulty on my part, face-to-face.

That's pretty much accurate. It means that if you get a gift or good fortune, don't be ungrateful and question its value or meaning. I guess it could be used in the following way:

John: "I got a raise today!"
Mary: "Great! Congratulations."
John: "Thanks. Unfortunately, it was only a few thousand bucks." (John had questioned the value of the raise he was given and wasn't purely grateful)
Mary: "Hey, don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Kinda silly, but it gets the point across.

I mean one I know for sure who only has ADHD.

Oops, my bad...

Fortune
02-21-11, 03:53 AM
Hah, sorry. This is interesting and somewhat enlightening to me. Thanks.

Hope I'm not annoying you :), but I'm wondering a few other things. Do individual words have specific mental imagery associated with them? For example, if I say "intimidating," does something in particular come to mind? How about more generalized or abstract words like "physics" or "electricity?"

Right now think of an imposing shadowy figure, possibly because someone brought up the "OBEY GIANT" stencil art earlier.

Physics, I think of those textbook pictures of atoms with the discrete particles and the electrons in their discrete orbits. And then the textbook.

Electricity? Lightning.

That's pretty much accurate. It means that if you get a gift or good fortune, don't be ungrateful and question its value or meaning. I guess it could be used in the following way:

John: "I got a raise today!"
Mary: "Great! Congratulations."
John: "Thanks. Unfortunately, it was only a few thousand bucks." (John had questioned the value of the raise he was given and wasn't purely grateful)
Mary: "Hey, don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Kinda silly, but it gets the point across.

Right. It took me a couple of minutes to get past the literal meaning and produce the words. I don't think it comes up much around me.

fracturedstory
02-21-11, 06:07 AM
Physics and electricity showed the same image of a current being sent through a cathode ray tube. But first I thought 'OMG you said Physics - AWESOME!' Ahem.

My God you two sure can talk.

I'm not going to quote so I hope this all makes sense.

I actually prefer the latter drier sentence without the idioms. I just can't stand them. They make me pause and wonder what the bluddy heck it means and I don't usually get it.
One phrase that keeps going through my mind is 'egg on your face.' I can't decipher it. My way for dealing with this ignorance is to simply reject them. It's the same with sarcasm. It's just so frustrating to have to break through the code to get to the real meaning. Unless I pretend I'm a spy every time I hear a joke or phrase. That could make things interesting.

As for you either have AS or you don't I don't agree. I think autism like many disorders are in everybody but in different levels. When they becoming impairing then they become disorders. You'll be hard pressed to find an NT with no autistic traits or one with no ADHD symptoms. It's probably why so many people deny AS and ADHD are legitimate disorders, because they have have a few traits so oh extremely mild.

Maybe many people can see in pictures but Temple Grandin takes this on a whole new level. In a split second, before a car collision mind, she saw three different scenarios in her mind and she was able to choose what to do next to avoid that collision. She has an extreme visual thinking style.

I'm visual and can think words audibly too. And I admit I'm sometimes checking google to check what a word I don't usually use means. I can only visualise words in my mind for a split second. Longer if they are in colour.
I can usually visualise any words as a picture. Even greetings. It just shows a memory of a time where I had been asked those things.