View Full Version : Spirituality


excel
03-23-11, 12:58 PM
Can anyone define Spiritualit?

tipoo
03-23-11, 02:21 PM
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Spirituality

No offense :p

excel
03-23-11, 06:44 PM
I'll check the website out

excel
03-26-11, 07:58 PM
Does your Spirituslity help you with your problems

Kirby Albee
03-27-11, 02:33 AM
I once wrote an essay on a court case. I took one of the judge's to task for using the word "sacred" (he was referring to life) without specifying what he meant. I quoted the dictionary, with the idea that the judge wasn't stating his case openly; I said something along the lines of, "Judge so and so was really saying, according to the O.E.Dictionary, that such and such was (here I quoted) 'to do with a god or goddess'. I wrote this with the intent of filling in the blank that the judge had left by using the word 'sacred'; I'd define it for him, if he wouldn't, and we could see what he was actually saying. When I got it back, my prof had written "I think" into my clarification of the judges use of the word. That's one of my all time favourite 'me getting corrected' stories.

Twiggy
03-27-11, 02:41 AM
I'm not spiritual.

βĩο₱Ħعℓĩᶏ
03-27-11, 02:51 AM
Spirituality?

To me?

When it's exercised it provides an immense amount of comfort despite all the changing, unknowable things. It is the thing that allows your mind and heart to stay still while storms rage in the external world; the eye of a hurricane. Spirituality simplifies life to breathing in and out and feeling connection with the world and all that is in it. Spirituality is appreciation and acceptance of all that is in the world. It leads to empathy, kindness, compassion and true courage.

excel
03-27-11, 08:50 AM
I find it helps me from time to time

jgthejedi510
03-27-11, 09:45 AM
I think of it as Fundamental to progressive existence. We all need some stability to live by, because like they say "It ain't always what it seems" but we definately need to know how to react to the speedbumps in life.

For my ADD, it has to be the only thing to get me through; those Fundamentals.
So, to answer your question, Yes, it does help. But it's always not easy to be stand firm to those fundamentals sometimes, but the never the less beneficial, in my case :)

Song of Mercy
03-27-11, 10:10 AM
I think on some level it is about moving beyond physical needs and demands. It is saying I want but will refrain, or I want and I will. It considers why.

excel
03-27-11, 10:37 AM
Spirituality is having faith in and believing in the God

βĩο₱Ħعℓĩᶏ
03-27-11, 11:48 AM
Spirituality is having faith in and believing in the God

I don't.

excel
03-27-11, 02:03 PM
I think of it as Fundamental to progressive existence. We all need some stability to live by, because like they say "It ain't always what it seems" but we definately need to know how to react to the speedbumps in life.

For my ADD, it has to be the only thing to get me through; those Fundamentals.
So, to answer your question, Yes, it does help. But it's always not easy to be stand firm to those fundamentals sometimes, but the never the less beneficial, in my case :)
Sometimes we have to hit rock bottom before things get better

hypergirl96
03-27-11, 02:23 PM
It helps me. Especially to know that there's omeone out there who is looking out for me and caring for me. I come from a very religous family, and I find it helps alot.

excel
03-27-11, 03:43 PM
It helps me. Especially to know that there's omeone out there who is looking out for me and caring for me. I come from a very religous family, and I find it helps alot.
We all need somebody to care about us.

Offle
03-27-11, 04:39 PM
Spirituality is having faith in and believing in the God

Nope. You can be plenty spiritual and never believe in any kind of god or goddess. Look at Buddhists. Many of them are very spiritual without believing in any gods.

tipoo
03-27-11, 04:42 PM
Nope. You can be plenty spiritual and never believe in any kind of god or goddess. Look at Buddhists. Many of them are very spiritual without believing in any gods.

Agreed. There is overlap, but its not a necessity. You can have experiences some would call spiritual that make you feel more attuned with nature, or make you see good in humanity, or increase your awareness of the cosmos, etc, all without belief in god.

If you haven't guessed from my avatar, I love all things space, and when I was 13 I was lucky enough to be invited by my fathers friend to come up to what is now my university's observatory. I was was given pretty much free reign over a massive observatory telescope, and I spent hours pointing it wherever I wanted. I remembered reveling in how small we are, so insignificant. Yet at the same time, in all this cosmic mess, so special and unique. The odds of you or I coming into existence were the closest thing to approaching zero, yet here we are, unique individuals. Thinking all this filled me with a deep reverence of the cosmos, and with the thought that all of humanity is in this together. I don't believe in spirits or gods, but yes, I would sure as heck call that a spiritual moment.

Offle
03-27-11, 04:46 PM
Agreed. There is overlap, but its not a necessity. You can have experiences some would call spiritual that make you feel more attuned with nature, or make you see good in humanity, or increase your awareness of the cosmos, etc, all without belief in god.

Yeah. I've always felt a bit spiritual but I've never been big on religion or gods. I don't know why. I was raised Catholic but for some reason the idea of god and Jesus just never stuck with me. It probably didn't help that I went the first six years of my life thinking Jesus was actually a really famous rock star.

Now I'm agnostic. I don't know if there is a god and I don't really care. I'm not going to spend all my life worrying about it because I don't think I'll find an answer. Oddly enough though I am completely fascinated by religions. I spend a ton of my time talking about them, learning about them, and debating them. I even attend various services from different religions just to see what it's like. Of course I call ahead and ask the person in charge of the service if they would mind if I attended so I won't feel like I've been rude.

ginniebean
03-27-11, 04:58 PM
I don't think it's necessary or productive to develop rigid ideas around spirituality. When I watch a horse racing in a pasture and say "that's a beautiful and spirited horse" I'm talking about the 'life' in that horse, when I see someone crushed under depression and anxiety I'm seeing a dispirited person, someone who's spirit has been harmed.

Spirituality as a word has been hijacked by vested interests and that does include secular ones.

Our spirits are important, this is our life, we can't subject it to scientific scrutiny but we know whether it's there and we know when it's been harmed and is ill. We also know when it's gone.. because there's no life left.

Spirituality is the study of the inner world of subjectivity, it has a landscape, it has markers and it has wilderness. It is a vast and mostly uncharted territory and disdained because it won't lend itself to public scrutiny.


We have often come to feel that if something can't be empirically verified it's not worth looking into. This is as laughable as the Ministry of Silly Walks.

I urge everyone to seek out the undiscovered country.

I will go into the wilderness and speak with her heart...

hypergirl96
03-27-11, 05:52 PM
We all need somebody to care about us.

amen :)

Offle
03-27-11, 06:16 PM
If you haven't guessed from my avatar, I love all things space, and when I was 13 I was lucky enough to be invited by my fathers friend to come up to what is now my university's observatory. I was was given pretty much free reign over a massive observatory telescope, and I spent hours pointing it wherever I wanted. I remembered reveling in how small we are, so insignificant. Yet at the same time, in all this cosmic mess, so special and unique. The odds of you or I coming into existence were the closest thing to approaching zero, yet here we are, unique individuals. Thinking all this filled me with a deep reverence of the cosmos, and with the thought that all of humanity is in this together. I don't believe in spirits or gods, but yes, I would sure as heck call that a spiritual moment.

I feel the same way about the first time I saw the giant web of connections in history. I felt like I saw seeing the huge tapestry of the world being woven together and instead of just seeing the picture it formed I could see ever thread and how each thread effected another. I've never felt so connected to the world than I did the first time that clicked for me.

excel
03-27-11, 06:49 PM
amen :)
Just think were would be if nobody cared about us

Offle
03-27-11, 06:57 PM
Just think were would be if nobody cared about us

We would have died out a long time ago. Luckily humans are selfish in the best kind of way and always caring about themselves or each other. And if something else is out there caring about us too that's great as well.

jgthejedi510
03-27-11, 07:20 PM
I don't think it's necessary or productive to develop rigid ideas around spirituality. When I watch a horse racing in a pasture and say "that's a beautiful and spirited horse" I'm talking about the 'life' in that horse, when I see someone crushed under depression and anxiety I'm seeing a dispirited person, someone who's spirit has been harmed.

Spirituality as a word has been hijacked by vested interests and that does include secular ones.

Our spirits are important, this is our life, we can't subject it to scientific scrutiny but we know whether it's there and we know when it's been harmed and is ill. We also know when it's gone.. because there's no life left.

Spirituality is the study of the inner world of subjectivity, it has a landscape, it has markers and it has wilderness. It is a vast and mostly uncharted territory and disdained because it won't lend itself to public scrutiny.


We have often come to feel that if something can't be empirically verified it's not worth looking into. This is as laughable as the Ministry of Silly Walks.

I urge everyone to seek out the undiscovered country.

I will go into the wilderness and speak with her heart...


Ahhh So very true ginnie bean.

"Religious" type people and traditions to me are manmade, not nessisarily the what "doctrine" suggests they should be.

I do not believe that there is any one "cookie cutter" formula for each of our lives, because we all are very UNIQUE but at the same time we all yearn for the same things in life.I think we all SHOULD find something bigger than ourselves that we can rely on, because we CANT conquer life all b ourselves, because like some have already indicated, we are all very insignificant in the giant universe of happening.

I also believe that outer influences sometimes bring the worst out of our nature, and that our nature itself tends to want to "react" to the circumstances rather than take the high roads (which may be more difficult, but most beneficial), thus i believe our "nature" must be conditioned or coached to facilitate survival, not reacting.

Forgiveness is one powerful example, because by not forgiving an enemy, you are resenting them expecting them to feel the pain of ur resentment, yet your the one walking around with it everyday - it hurts you not them. It's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die, your the one who's dying. Yes it's counter-intuitive but never the less POWERFUL. Not to say you forget about the ones who hurt you, but with other things in life, you must release it and move on.

I don't think in life we know what the right way to react to all things, thus we need guidance in some form or fashion. Sometimes it takes us trusting in something that doesnt make sense to finaly "understand" why it makes sense in the end.

I believe we all have purpose; because without it life has NO MEANING, and without meaning, we are nobodies, nothing's.I see many examples of purpose in the world around me. The Clouds purpose is to produce rain, the rain's purpose is to saturate our planet, the planet grows food for it's creatures, we are alive by the Purposes of ours planets complex system of purposes. Do you see?

I believe we are creatures of purpose because we ALL have this unquenchable yearning inside of us to understand who we are, and to do the things that fulfull this. Love is a universal and unfailing fullfillment that each of us experience when given, and that NEVER dies. Love can never fail. It awakes in us who we really are. We need to learn what love REALLY is. Not the form of it you see on tv,but what it really means to love.

We ARE here for a REASON. - And I believe you have a choice to figure that out.

excel
03-27-11, 07:50 PM
Sometimes it seems like I am on an endless journey to being happy

jgthejedi510
03-27-11, 08:07 PM
Your not alone tho. Wether you have your condition or not, everyone struggles with a consistent state of "happy". Your not going to be happy all of the time.

You just have to find the things you can be happy about. Hey -you could be in JAPAN underneath water, you could be in the middle east fighting for a Revolution, or a lot of other harder situations. Count your blessings man. Happiness is a state of mind. Peace of mind too.

Not saying it's easy - but it's do-able. I promise you, if you can figure out what it means to be happy, you will be stronger/ valuable than the people who didn't have to go through your troubles.

It can always be a lot worse. It's a Paradox, but your bad situation can be used to turn it into an extremely good one. You'll see. Find out who you are, and just accept it. Not to just give up, but find out how to maximize who you are.

Hope it helps.

excel
03-28-11, 08:43 AM
Everyday is a struggle to be happy

Il-Miġnun
03-28-11, 10:08 AM
Everyday is a struggle to be happy

That's because you're struggling to get it. Struggle for what you believe in and do things that you've always wanted to do and happiness will come by itself.

Il-Miġnun
03-28-11, 10:25 AM
I believe we all have purpose; because without it life has NO MEANING, and without meaning, we are nobodies, nothing's.I see many examples of purpose in the world around me. The Clouds purpose is to produce rain, the rain's purpose is to saturate our planet, the planet grows food for it's creatures, we are alive by the Purposes of ours planets complex system of purposes. Do you see?


No my dear you are alive merely because those things are there. The formation of clouds has to with the physical properties of the H20 molecule, they don't produce rain on purpose to sustain you. Life here adapted itself around the climatic and natural conditions present. It is not the other way round. If living beings don't adapt the will die out, as 99% of all species have done. You are included. There is no purpose to all of this, it never needed a purpose to begin with.

Your life's purpose is what you make it out to be.




I believe we are creatures of purpose because we ALL have this unquenchable yearning inside of us to understand who we are, and to do the things that fulfull this.


No we are actually animals that need the notion of having a 'purpose' as it brings comfort to our complex psychology, given the fact that we have a highly developed cerebrum.



We ARE here for a REASON. - And I believe you have a choice to figure that out.

As the dude I had a drink with two days ago in some obscure village pub, would put it: Taħxi u tkattar, which means.. to **** and reproduce.

Now if you were to tell me about adding a little icing on the cake and not being that primordial in our everyday life, that would be another thing

ginniebean
03-28-11, 10:45 AM
Ahhh So very true ginnie bean.

"Religious" type people and traditions to me are manmade, not nessisarily the what "doctrine" suggests they should be.


I don't dismiss the possibility of an absolute. Nor does it bother me a wit if religion is 'man-made'. It's my understanding that religion is a form of map of our interior worlds, and depending upon the consciousness of the individual a persons inner world can be a small village and it's outskirts or it can be as large as the universe itself.

I do not believe that there is any one "cookie cutter" formula for each of our lives, because we all are very UNIQUE but at the same time we all yearn for the same things in life.I think we all SHOULD find something bigger than ourselves that we can rely on, because we CANT conquer life all b ourselves, because like some have already indicated, we are all very insignificant in the giant universe of happening.

One thing that is a good part of our ego is being 'unique' or wanting to be. For the most part we actually are cookie cutter and there's little that is particularly distinct, on the grander scale. The limited repertoires of our conversations (something many with adhd chafe under), the social rituals, the repertoires of reactions we seem locked into by one psychological state or another. All of these things and more keep us not only locked into a dreary sameness but also alienated from each other.

I also believe that outer influences sometimes bring the worst out of our nature, and that our nature itself tends to want to "react" to the circumstances rather than take the high roads (which may be more difficult, but most beneficial), thus i believe our "nature" must be conditioned or coached to facilitate survival, not reacting.


I rarely post in the spirituality section even tho spirituality has been such a big part of my life and even tho I am very passionate about it I haven't figured out how to speak of it in the manner I care to. Many of the traditions speak of the difference between reaction and action, and use words like sin and righteousness respectively and I have been reacting from some core wounded part that I haven't fully explored. There's healing for me in spiritual/interior exploration and reflection.


I don't think we need to be conditioned or coached, our nature has been conditioned and coached and is pretty much in straight jackets because of it. We have all we need however, friends along the way may point out things to see, whether we see them or hear them is up to us.



Forgiveness is one powerful example, because by not forgiving an enemy, you are resenting them expecting them to feel the pain of ur resentment, yet your the one walking around with it everyday - it hurts you not them. It's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die, your the one who's dying. Yes it's counter-intuitive but never the less POWERFUL. Not to say you forget about the ones who hurt you, but with other things in life, you must release it and move on.


I don't move on easy, not for some things, and while forgiveness comes easy for most things there are particular circumstances where I have found it near impossible. These seem to centre around rejection, abandonment and me being 'bad'. Once again I'm struggling with this in my life in so many ways and release of such things seems like the task of Sisyphus, I get close and watch that rock tumble right back down to the bottom of the mountain.

I don't think in life we know what the right way to react to all things, thus we need guidance in some form or fashion. Sometimes it takes us trusting in something that doesnt make sense to finaly "understand" why it makes sense in the end.

Actually, we do know.. on some deeper level in the same way we recognise anything else. Or, we may not know precisely but we're certain of direction. I'm not a fan of trust, and my guess is most aren't. Our relationship with trust is often a very foolish thing. I can trust that humans will be human, that they will fail in all the ways available and upon occasion will perform feats of character that are as surprising as they are delightful.

I believe we all have purpose; because without it life has NO MEANING, and without meaning, we are nobodies, nothing's.I see many examples of purpose in the world around me. The Clouds purpose is to produce rain, the rain's purpose is to saturate our planet, the planet grows food for it's creatures, we are alive by the Purposes of ours planets complex system of purposes. Do you see?

Well, that's a bit simplistic for what I see. Meaning *is* purpose and without it there is no spirit in life.

I believe we are creatures of purpose because we ALL have this unquenchable yearning inside of us to understand who we are, and to do the things that fulfull this. Love is a universal and unfailing fullfillment that each of us experience when given, and that NEVER dies. Love can never fail. It awakes in us who we really are. We need to learn what love REALLY is. Not the form of it you see on tv,but what it really means to love.

We ARE here for a REASON. - And I believe you have a choice to figure that out.

I dunno if we all have that yearning, I have met a great great many who don't. Love, that word is over used, "I love gum" .... and lends itself to romanticism.. which is ok .. but like the word 'spirit' it has significance.

excel
03-28-11, 02:42 PM
Love can be a great thing especilly when we find that special someone

Luthien
03-28-11, 05:42 PM
(...)
Spirituality as a word has been hijacked by vested interests and that does include secular ones.

Our spirits are important, this is our life, we can't subject it to scientific scrutiny but we know whether it's there and we know when it's been harmed and is ill. We also know when it's gone.. because there's no life left.

Spirituality is the study of the inner world of subjectivity, it has a landscape, it has markers and it has wilderness. It is a vast and mostly uncharted territory and disdained because it won't lend itself to public scrutiny.

We have often come to feel that if something can't be empirically verified it's not worth looking into. This is as laughable as the Ministry of Silly Walks.

I urge everyone to seek out the undiscovered country.
This is very much my position as well. It has not always been like that. I used to describe myself as agnostic or atheist until I realised that I wasn't. Those labels only applied to a part of me; the part that's concerned with all things rational and factual. When I realised how important and significant and, above all, "true" the other part was .. well, I had to quite seriously extend my self-definition :)

hypergirl96
03-28-11, 06:03 PM
I don't like faith or forgiveness. Life doesn't work that way.

Why can't it? think of how wonderful the world would be if we are all trusting and forgiving and trustful and caring. the world would be so much better. It's not that life isn't that way, it is that we as humans are that way and thus make life that way. It doesn't have to be. We just accept it and say "Well it's not gonna change."

but it can change, if we all choose to pitch in and help make it change. we can all make a difference. "pass it forward". life could work that way, its just that humans are naturally faithless and unforgiving and that makes life this way. i'm not saying everyone is this wy, bt the majority of people are and that's what makes life so difficult.

if we were all just forgiving, caring, compsionate, etc, the world would be such a better place, and then life would be that way.

just something to think about.

excel
03-28-11, 06:20 PM
Why can't it? think of how wonderful the world would be if we are all trusting and forgiving and trustful and caring. the world would be so much better. It's not that life isn't that way, it is that we as humans are that way and thus make life that way. It doesn't have to be. We just accept it and say "Well it's not gonna change."

but it can change, if we all choose to pitch in and help make it change. we can all make a difference. "pass it forward". life could work that way, its just that humans are naturally faithless and unforgiving and that makes life this way. i'm not saying everyone is this wy, bt the majority of people are and that's what makes life so difficult.

if we were all just forgiving, caring, compsionate, etc, the world would be such a better place, and then life would be that way.

just something to think about.
I agree with you

Luthien
03-28-11, 06:52 PM
re. the original question "What is spirituality?"

I'm not that fond of the word spirituality. That's because it smells too much like the new-agey sort of mix 'n' match do-it-yourself spirituality shopping of these times that may be all very colourful and highly individual, but I have never found anything there that could enchant me.
What is wrong with the word religion? I've heard people say things like "Oh, I am not religious .. but I am very spiritual. I dislike organised religion!" Maybe therefore spirituality equals disorganised religion?

I admit that the word religion is maybe all too deeply burdened, but so are many others that we don't mind using. I haven't figured it out yet.
But for the time being, I do rather like "magic". Without, and I cannot stress that enough, without that ridiculous extra k added (magick .. bleh! Yuck!)
Or "imagination". Or "enchantment".

And where does one get that? Not in church, but neither in the spirituality fairs that are held every weekend in every province town where you can buy karma by the metre, with matching crystals and "the Secret" DVD's that teach you how to, oh, in a very spiritual way, acquire more things that you never needed in the first place.

I think that someone like good old Thomas the Rhymer says it pretty well:

O see ye not yon narrow road
So thick beset wi' thorns and briers?
That is the path of Righteousness,
Though after it but few inquires.

And see ye not yon braid, braid road
That lies across the lily leven?
That is the path of Wickedness,
Though some call it the Road to Heaven.

And see ye not yon bonny road
That winds about yon fernie brae?
That is the road to fair Elfland,
Where thou and I this night maun gae.

Kirby Albee
03-28-11, 06:59 PM
I'm an atheist. I've had agnostic moments, but I've come to think of my stance in a negative sense: I don't see any reason why I should believe in God. It's slightly different than disbelieving, somehow. I think that some people get into trouble, in a way, because they imagine themselves as inverted Christians; they imagine their new ideas with their old structure in place. So love, for example, is 'just' instinctual, and therefore degraded, for a non-believer. The body and soul hierarchy is still intellectually in play, though, still doing it's regular cognitive work, where one category defines itself against the other, even when we supposedly don't believe in one of the categories any longer. Love somehow has to be conceptually rescued from a purely material world that is still imagined as the bad half of the religious universe. Same for the "red in tooth and claw" idea of nature. Not that nature's not violent; it is; and this is also not to say that we should live as nature somehow 'intends' us to; but we still tend to look at it as the underbelly of the otherworldly, and I think that doing so makes it look bloodier than it ought to look, or it gives the bloodiness an unnecessary philosophical weight. I think of Ted Hughes poetry; he seems to be trying to come to terms with the natural world, yet it's like one of those nature shows where for every leaf you see blowing in the wind, you see a dozen lion kills.

I can never find this quote, but Montaigne said something about animals being instinctual, or not self driven; he thought they were, I think, but he said that if they're not, so much the more honour to them for being impelled by the divine, or something along those lines. He could say that as a Christian, but I think the attitude or stance is still a useful one for an atheist who tends to think in Christian terms (me, that is). If I find the quote I'll post it.

βĩο₱Ħعℓĩᶏ
03-28-11, 09:37 PM
I'm an Atheist. I don't like faith or forgiveness. Life doesn't work that way.
I know that when I die I will rot in a casket or be burned up into ash. I don't have a soul or spirit...it died when I was born.

Forgiveness, to me, is letting go all hope for a better past.

hypergirl96
03-28-11, 09:46 PM
Forgiveness, to me, is letting go all hope for a better past.

forgiveness- letting go of the past to look forward to a brighter future free of past worries and wrongdoings for all parties involved. its tying up loose ends. i hate loose ends. and letting someone know that you do not blame them for what they did, or them letting you know they didnot blame you for what you did, because you or they are sincerely sorry for what you/they did. it really does strengethen them as a person for admitting the mistake and being truly sorry and wantung to change, and you, for showing you have enough inner strength and mercy to pardon the other and everyone's is just happier in the end :)

so, you can take a pessimistic view or an optomistic view. no offense, biophelia, but that seems to me to be a pessimistic view. im not know for my optomism, but i try to stay positive. it really helps alot. :)

βĩο₱Ħعℓĩᶏ
03-28-11, 10:09 PM
forgiveness- letting go of the past to look forward to a brighter future free of past worries and wrongdoings for all parties involved. its tying up loose ends. i hate loose ends. and letting someone know that you do not blame them for what they did, or them letting you know they didnot blame you for what you did, because you or they are sincerely sorry for what you/they did. it really does strengethen them as a person for admitting the mistake and being truly sorry and wantung to change, and you, for showing you have enough inner strength and mercy to pardon the other and everyone's is just happier in the end :)

so, you can take a pessimistic view or an optomistic view. no offense, biophelia, but that seems to me to be a pessimistic view. im not know for my optomism, but i try to stay positive. it really helps alot. :)

My statement said nothing about making amends. It also said nothing about the present or future; only that letting go of hope for a better past.

^_^

goldfish
03-29-11, 12:08 AM
Spirituality?

To me?

When it's exercised it provides an immense amount of comfort despite all the changing, unknowable things. It is the thing that allows your mind and heart to stay still while storms rage in the external world; the eye of a hurricane. Spirituality simplifies life to breathing in and out and feeling connection with the world and all that is in it. Spirituality is appreciation and acceptance of all that is in the world. It leads to empathy, kindness, compassion and true courage.

i like this definition much better than any one that references any God, religion, gods or otherwise religious teachings of any of the world's religions as i believe one can be very spiritual w/o having any religious beliefs whatsoever.

that said, i'm not a very religious or spiritual person.

but i have noticed some psilocybin enhanced spiritual feelings & thoughts... ;)

Luthien
03-29-11, 11:01 AM
I'm an Atheist. I don't like faith or forgiveness. Life doesn't work that way.
I'm really puzzled by that bit about forgiveness.
In the first place, I fail to see the connection between forgiveness and faith - as if it says "I'm a Vegetarian. I don't like meat or bicycles."
Yeah, I know that there is something in the Bible about forgiving - but then again, so are many other things like bread or wine, etc.

But also in a more serious sense: why on earth would you dislike forgiveness?
In Wikipedia (yes, I know that's not the final source of all wisdom) forgiveness is defined as

Forgiveness is typically defined as the process of concluding resentment, indignation or anger as a result of a perceived offense, difference or mistake, and/or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution.

You typically forgive someone in order to stop something bad, like a vicious circle of hate and revenge that could eventually destroy both parties involved.
It's a wise and moral act and can be motivated entirely on humanitarian grounds i.e. without experiencing any ill spiritual side effects.
In fact, it has been proven that it is good for any person to practice forgiveness. I allows you to direct your energy towards more productive ends than, say, brooding on revenge would.

If you state that you dislike forgiveness, you are basically saying that you would rather keep on fighting until one of you is utterly defeated, rather than rising above your differences and call it quits. Is that what you mean?

Lunacie
03-29-11, 11:34 AM
Forgiveness, to me, is letting go all hope for a better past.


>>

so, you can take a pessimistic view or an optomistic view. no offense, biophelia, but that seems to me to be a pessimistic view. im not know for my optomism, but i try to stay positive. it really helps alot. :)

I don't think biophelia's comment was pessimistic, I thought it was realistic.

We can't change the past, eh? Not letting the anger and hurt feelings continue to affect us negatively sounds optomistic to me. The past may have been hurtful but the future is wide open.

excel
03-29-11, 05:31 PM
We shouldn't hold on to the past

Lunacie
03-29-11, 05:52 PM
We shouldn't hold on to the past

No, but it can be very hard to let go and step forward into the unknown.

excel
03-29-11, 06:19 PM
No, but it can be very hard to let go and step forward into the unknown.
This is so true!

Lunacie
03-29-11, 06:25 PM
This is so true!

It's also true that the heart knows when it's ready. It took a long time before I could forgive my brother for what he did. I'm still working on forgiving my dad for not doing better. But I don't feel bitter and angry anymore so I know I'm getting there.

excel
03-30-11, 02:24 PM
It's also true that the heart knows when it's ready. It took a long time before I could forgive my brother for what he did. I'm still working on forgiving my dad for not doing better. But I don't feel bitter and angry anymore so I know I'm getting there.
Yes it can yake awhile to forgive another

excel
04-01-11, 01:05 PM
Life can be interesting

excel
04-08-11, 11:48 AM
It helps me a little with muy problems

Song of Mercy
05-12-11, 05:45 AM
One of the pastors at my church said "regret is hoping the past will change." That was really healing for me. I got to thinking how crazy it is to constantly nurse regret, totally unproductive.

Excel, you asked in one of the post if spirituality helped.

Yes, it has for me. I have found wholeness and purpose for myself, I have been equipped with confidence for continued growth as well as power to create the life I choose.

I am a Christian.

excel
05-12-11, 08:53 AM
It can worlk wonders

Song of Mercy
05-12-11, 09:03 AM
This is in reply to the fear thread. I suffered extreme anxiety for many years. As a Christian I was taught that perfect love casts out fear. I didn't understand why I was afraid and thought that it was about me. As I have grown confident enough with God to allow Him to love me I find it hard to think of anything I am genuinely afraid of...right this moment lol.

Kunga Dorji
05-13-11, 07:03 AM
Can anyone define Spiritualit?

At heart I think it has to do with ordering priorities.

Science can tell us how to do stuff. It can't tell us what is worth doing.
Spirituality is the way we structure our priorities so we can work out what is worth doing, and what is worth procrastinating over.

To me it is like the top level of ADD coaching in that regard.

DrZoidberg
05-13-11, 07:46 AM
Can anyone define Spiritualit?

It's a very vague word. It can refer to the supernatural or not. It's a general feeling of emotional connection to something. The word is so vague that it doesn't really mean anything.

Here'a on a study where a researcher asked a bunch of scientists if they considered themselves spiritual. She got very creative and very weird answers.

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/elaine_howard_ecklund_how_religious_are_scientists/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110505124039.htm

The conclusion is that we're better off not using the word "spiritual" at all. Nobody knows what you're talking about.

excel
05-14-11, 08:01 PM
This is in reply to the fear thread. I suffered extreme anxiety for many years. As a Christian I was taught that perfect love casts out fear. I didn't understand why I was afraid and thought that it was about me. As I have grown confident enough with God to allow Him to love me I find it hard to think of anything I am genuinely afraid of...right this moment lol.
Their are things that cause my anxiety and depression to act up and praying doesn't never seem to help.

Song of Mercy
05-14-11, 11:14 PM
The exercise of prayer is not as effective as the experience of hope. Hope is a light that dispels shadowy purposelessness. I think some of my biggest fears were about thinking that my future was determined by my past.

shysmile
05-15-11, 08:55 AM
Spirituality, to me, is unconditional love.
Learning we can think and feel and create beyond what we're taught.
Forgiveness.
Hope.
Living, thinking, feeling in the moment. Not the past.
Joy (that isn't based on outward circumstances).
Understanding and accepting the larger picture in life.
Staying firmly rooted to your real self, while at the same time staying open to being taught by anyone who inspires you, even if they are only 3 years old.
Understanding that there is a law of attraction, and there is power in prayer and positive thought (even science proves this).


Almost all religions teach some or all of these but in different ways. I was raised Christian, but am not religious myself. I'm a baby spiritual person. :p

excel
05-18-11, 05:53 PM
Spirituality, to me, is unconditional love.
Learning we can think and feel and create beyond what we're taught.
Forgiveness.
Hope.
Living, thinking, feeling in the moment. Not the past.
Joy (that isn't based on outward circumstances).
Understanding and accepting the larger picture in life.
Staying firmly rooted to your real self, while at the same time staying open to being taught by anyone who inspires you, even if they are only 3 years old.
Understanding that there is a law of attraction, and there is power in prayer and positive thought (even science proves this).


Almost all religions teach some or all of these but in different ways. I was raised Christian, but am not religious myself. I'm a baby spiritual person. :p
I like that!

excel
09-12-11, 01:06 PM
My Spiritualty is really being tested these days

ginniebean
09-12-11, 01:18 PM
What is Spirtualtity? I have no idea about Spirtualtity? Please explain it in detail


MOD NOTE****


Let's be clear, this section is NOT a place for debate, people are free to come here and discuss how spirituality helps them cope with adhd, depression or any other mental illness.

It is NOT a place where people need to justify themselves are educate anyone.

For those in this thread who are debating from the secularist viewpoint you need to go to DEBATES.

excel
11-06-11, 04:34 PM
Spirituality is very impotant to some people

woopdeedoo
11-06-11, 06:47 PM
Henry David Longfellow:


Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream!
-- For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem.
Life is real! Life is earnest! And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest, Was not spoken of the soul.


I think spirituality is at the essence of any living thing. It goes beyond circumstances, "social class," and society's measure of intelligence, success, and what you're "worth." People go so much deeper than that.. I mean, you can just feel it, can't you? What a person radiates, and that mortality isn't the beginning or end of existence! I absolutely love and respect everyone's views on this; these are just mine.

Belief in God doesn't affect spirituality to me. Whether you believe in a higher being or not, it's hard to deny that feeling that people are so much more than what they appear.. ahh isn't it?! It is to me. I also believe organized religion isn't what we're talking about here. Spirituality is separate altogether.


For SongofMercy, I like what you said about regret. I have to stop myself from going there.. in that space.. because it can consume me. That wish to go back and do things differently.. so painful I can't go there, and I think you're right about it not being productive. I was watching Oprah's Life Class (tv show) a couple weeks ago and she said she was talking about her regret to Maya Angelou, who said to her, "When you know better, you do better." I think that's where it's at. I have to hold on to that, because I can't go back. But I know better, so now I do better.


As far as forgiveness, here's what I think: It has nothing to do with the offender. What are you giving a person by saying you forgive them? Who's *actually* in bondage when you withhold your forgiveness?

The notion that it's saying they're off the hook; that it's okay is complete nonsense! NO. It would never be okay what they did. No way.. ew! Hearing of people forgiving rapists or father's that weren't there for them or selfishly eating the leftovers you brought home that you wrote your name on and taped shut and hid in the deepest corner of the refrigerator, behind the vegetables your mom buys every week at the grocery store for reasons beyond comprehension because no one ever eats them and it goes to waste every single week.

*ahem*

That feeling.. that traditional thought of "forgiving" someone by saying it's "okay" is REPULSIVE to me. Let me reiterate that it has absolutely nothing to do with the offender.

So what is it?

It has everything to do with not letting their offense; their problem(s); their abuse; their neglect; their mistakes *enslave you*. It has everything to do with letting go of the hold THEIR negativity has on you. It separating yourself. It's saying, this is not my problem, it's yours. It's saying, whether it was intentional or not, whether it was due to the way you were raised, or taking your past pain, or learned behavior out on me, whether it's understandable or not, what you did (you = the offender) isn't going to be successful. You don't get the satisfaction of knowing that your offense holds me captive.

It has nothing to do with saying it's okay. Absolutely zero. It has nothing to do with even telling a person they're forgiven.. in my experience, most people don't give a damn whether you forgive them or not. But the ones that do, need to forgive themselves. Forgiveness is personal. It also has nothing to do with saying, I open my heart to you for you to trample on or repeat what you did. That is a totally separate issue of trust, which can be earned, and/or given upon your discretion.

Forgiveness is about freeing yourself. It is NOT giving a pass to anyone.

Great thread. :)

excel
11-10-11, 02:59 PM
Lets keep the faith.

Lunacie
11-10-11, 03:29 PM
Okie-dokie. You keep your faith, and I'll keep mine.

Actually, until I finally agreed to give anti-depressants a try,
I hadn't been to a faith meeting in over a year. I'm really happy
to be practicing my beliefs again.

excel
11-10-11, 08:09 PM
Keeping the will raise your spirits

meadd823
11-11-11, 01:47 AM
Spirituality - having to do with spirit.

Spirit - has no words in which to describe itself. It merely is.

I am spiritual - yes but then again every one is - It just that some people identify with that portion of themselves and while other people do not.

Am I religious - not any more.

Does it help me with my ADHD

Some times it seems to help me cope by offeringh taht which is more than material drudgery while other times it seems to distract me from the necessary physical plane of existence.

βĩο₱Ħعℓĩᶏ
11-11-11, 04:39 AM
Spirituality - having to do with spirit.

Spirit - has no words in which to describe itself. It merely is.

I am spiritual - yes but then again every one is - It just that some people identify with that portion of themselves and while other people do not.

Am I religious - not any more.

Does it help me with my ADHD

Some times it seems to help me cope by offeringh taht which is more than material drudgery while other times it seems to distract me from the necessary physical plane of existence.

<img src="http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111101.gif">

sorry if this was removed... i don't remember if i submitted though... (i'm discombobulated today)...

TygerSan
11-11-11, 10:27 AM
I have long considered myself spiritual, but have had very mixed feelings about organized religion . . .

I look in wonder at the mysterious ways of the natural world and just know that there's some greater force at work, regardless of how you look at it or what you call it.

I am not a very forgiving person, and I tend to forgive others before I begin to forgive myself. I need to get back into meditation, as it is one of the things that allows me to get outside of my own mind and really observe what's happening with me.

I still remember doing walking meditation while upset about something that happened at work (can't even remember what it was), and suddenly, clear as day, a thought bubbled up to the surface "It's not about you". . .and for me, that's a large part of my spiritual practice: remembering that I am not the center of all things.

This quote (and the book that it comes from: 12 steps to a Compassionate Life by religious historian Karen Armstrong) sums it up quite nicely

All faiths insist that compassion is the test of true spirituality and that it brings us into relation with the transcendence we call God, Brahman, Nirvana, or Dao. Each has formulated its own version of what is sometimes called the Golden Rule “Do not treat others as you would not like them to treat you”, or in its positive form, “Always treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself”. Further, they all insist that you cannot confine your benevolence to your own group; you must have concern for everybody – even your enemies.

excel
11-12-11, 09:34 PM
Someone the other said that God had to create all the unverse because man just messea everything up.

Luthien
11-14-11, 06:00 AM
This is an interesting thread. But I find it also hugely confusing:

Life can be interesting
Right on :)

Keeping the will raise your spirits
Does this mean that if you persist in something it will make you feel better?

Lets keep the faith.
I find this one especially puzzling. Is this a call to hold on to one's religiosity?
If so, I'd like to know *how* because whether or not you have "faith" is IMO not something that you can influence by will.
You either have faith or you don't.
It's not like you can decide one day: "Hey, life feels a little meaningless today. Maybe I should acquire some faith in something or other .. " - or at least, I can't imagine that it works like that. Faith is a given thing.

What you can do by will is to open yourself up to either "challenging your belief" or to "admitting towards yourself that you believe".
But in those cases it is only your consciousness following what's already settled deep down inside.

I'm also wondering about all the talking about "forgiving" in a very generic thread about spirituality.
Of course "forgiving" and "revenge" are often part of religious dogma, but hardly in a consistent way (f.i. the old vs. the new testament).
I think that "forgiving" is rather a social and moral issue; not a spiritual one. People can decide to be forgiving or revengeful without referring to any religion.

Someone the other said that God had to create all the unverse because man just messea everything up.

1) God creates the universe, including humans
2) Humans start messing everything up
3) Because of that [messing up], God had to create the universe
4) goto 1)

???

excel
12-31-11, 03:34 PM
I am dealing with death and coming to grips with my own spirituality.

excel
05-29-12, 08:11 AM
When someone close to you dies, it test your spirtuality

Bluerose
05-29-12, 12:23 PM
Can anyone define Spiritualit?


Spirituality is for those seeking understanding religion is for those seeking reward. :)

excel
02-14-13, 09:38 AM
Times like this you need it!!!!

Mr Digital 01
02-14-13, 11:08 AM
Our spirits are important, this is our life, we can't subject it to scientific scrutiny but we know whether it's there and we know when it's been harmed and is ill. We also know when it's gone.. because there's no life left.

Spirituality is the study of the inner world of subjectivity, it has a landscape, it has markers and it has wilderness. It is a vast and mostly uncharted territory and disdained because it won't lend itself to public scrutiny.

I urge everyone to seek out the undiscovered country.

* I have edited down your lovely post to serve as the springboard for my own evil purposes ginnie, I hope you don't mind. *

A word of warning to those who seek out the undiscovered country - Pack a blanket, some food and a rifle, you never know what you'll find there.


I wish I could believe in your gods,
It would make my life and my death so much simpler,
My joy and my grief so much easier.
But alas, I simply cannot.

No fear, their loss is no tragedy,
There are glories and mysteries enough,

There are inner and outer worlds too,
magnificent nature, the sky, the earth and the universe.

There is time and space itself,
stretching billions of years backwards and forwards,
There is awe, there is wonder, there is vastness,

Surely all this is enough?

To make one feel small,
To make one stand tall,
To make one feel spiritual... At all?

SB_UK
02-14-13, 02:43 PM
The spiritual state (to man) is resonating :-) boson not fumbling fermion.

(or more simply - it's attaining a state of happiness without requirement for anything of the man-made material (money,land) or man-made informational (music,art) worlds).

The sun (if you're lucky enough to have it) and some cave are still required - because being cold is bad - but neither of these are man-made.

As Alanis writes ... ...
"I am fascinated by the spiritual man. I am humbled by his humble nature."

Thing is - is that when you're in the spiritual state (happy) - all of those ego tags we place on a CV (I own this much stuff, I hold these certificates, I've written this published story) no longer matter.
Man in spiritual state is humble - because the ego has been discarded - and we see, when we scrutinise the spiritual man - a state of contentment without pretension.

SB_UK
02-14-13, 02:49 PM
Perhaps the simplest statement of what the spiritual state represents - is completion.

Man is complete.

excel
02-21-13, 12:30 PM
Yes man is complete

Scooby Dude
02-21-13, 12:57 PM
To me, "Spirituality" is taking a bunch of nebulous thoughts, feelings, and sensations going on on our heads that we don't understand, rolling them up in a ball with a neat little artificial label, and using that as a frame for understanding and dealing with these thoughts, feelings, and sensations in our day-to-day lives.

DrZoidberg
04-16-13, 08:44 AM
I just wanted to say that there are atheistic churches for all you out there who consider yourself spiritual atheists. I've found an awesome group in Stockholm. We only focus on the soul, emotions and being human. None of that supernatural crap we get spoonfed in theistic churches.

I did not know this existed just a year ago.

fracturedstory
04-17-13, 05:21 AM
Thing is - is that when you're in the spiritual state (happy) - all of those ego tags we place on a CV (I own this much stuff, I hold these certificates, I've written this published story) no longer matter.
Man in spiritual state is humble - because the ego has been discarded - and we see, when we scrutinise the spiritual man - a state of contentment without pretension.

This is a great description.

A truly spiritual person is not arrogant, at peace with themselves, content with the lack of material possessions, and not offending people in this thread for having a different world view.

justaguy
04-21-13, 12:22 AM
To study the human spirit is to peer into the very essence of mankind. a direct link from the body to the universe, we are from this planet as our planet is from the stars, yet stars themselves have an origin point.so and and so forth.

so many ways to feel the universe, be it to personify it as a entity (god) or to search for profound truth (wisdom).i feel that every spiritual path holds a truth about this reality and it does not quite have a true definition,your relationship to the universe is yours to interpret. but that's my opinion really.

excel
11-16-13, 06:50 PM
What came first the chicken or the egg

Luthien
11-17-13, 06:05 AM
what came first the chicken or the egg

Why do you ask?

http://youtu.be/Xq8yqduOJOA

davinci10
11-17-13, 02:43 PM
Spirituality is connecting with your true self. Connecting with your heart's true feelings. Start behaving like a child for 5 minutes everyday, cuz that will take you closer to your heart and away from ego. Remember that the heart is always clean and by connecting with your true feelings, which will lead to creativity, you are being kind to yourself and eventually to humanity. God speaks through your heart.

excel
12-01-13, 12:40 PM
Why do you ask?

http://youtu.be/Xq8yqduOJOA
trying to be funny