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Funky1 05-13-18 05:15 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
it depends. For the most part, if I try to picture something mentally it it's just a vague outline of whatever I'm trying to think of, most often fuzzy and indescript. Sometimes though, my thoughts and Imagination can be extremely vivid if I'm focused enough. Definitely in times of hyper-focus. I have an especially hard time with faces, but I think that might have a lot to do with my struggle to make and hold eye contact with people.

LyrinMeow 05-13-18 05:41 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
Oh that too. Since you mentioned language. Do you sub-vocalize? Which is hearing words in your head when reading? This appears to be very common but to get up to the really high reading speeds you have to not do it. I'm actually getting back into speed reading and I know it's something I have problems not doing.

I'm currently learning Japanese and I don't visualize anything. (No I am not 16 and just discovered anime.) I am trying to do the "not translating in your head" thing. I want to be fluent. But I can't even close my eyes and see the characters. I actually have no idea how I have memorized them to write them. I don't see the English alphabet either. If you say "think of a square" I think about "squareness" but I don't actually see one in any way. Its like my brain is a dictionary of properties. I can't think of any instance in which I think visually. Unless it's going on at an unconscious level.

Oh, also, How The Mind Works by Steven Pinker if I haven't mentioned it before. Not done with it yet. Reading like 3 books at once. He goes on a tangent through AI that may be difficult to understand or boring if you have no programming/logic training. But he talks about the ways in which computers have been made to mimic human thought and how bad they fail at it. The mind like a dictionary of properties reminded me of it. It's somewhat similar to some things they have been trying. I actually want to get around to doing some basic AI programs just for funzies. There's that nerd thing again.

So yeah. Do any of you successfully not sub-vocalize?

Damn, you know it's bad when you derail your own thread.

psychopathetic 05-13-18 07:05 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LyrinMeow (Post 1994810)
Damn, you know it's bad when you derail your own thread.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

aeon 05-14-18 08:04 AM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LyrinMeow (Post 1994810)
Do any of you successfully not sub-vocalize?

I'd not considered this before...no, I do not do this.


Cheers,
Ian

psychopathetic 05-14-18 09:10 AM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LyrinMeow (Post 1994810)
Do you sub-vocalize? Which is hearing words in your head when reading?

lol...I just read your question and thought "WHOA!!!" and could totally hear the word "WHOA!!!" in my mind! It was really kind of a neat experience cause it's nothing I've ever noticed before...but I absolutely do "hear" the words I read (and think!). I don't know how to describe it as it's not "physically" hearing them...as there's no noise entering my ears! lol

...also, on a side note...you exhaust me Lys! lol I'm actually jealous. I wish I had a heck of a lot more of your "GO!" you got inside. I'm SO the opposite! My "GO!" container has a big hole at the very bottom so I'm always finding myself depleted of my "GO!" juice! :doh:
You're a programmer /MAJOR envy!
You do fun exciting physical things...like hiking, running and kayaking.
You take care of 1 'teen' kid, (and 1 'adult' kid! hehe :p ) as a single mother
You may (or may not? I don't really remember) be in the dating scene.
And you still find time to get some yoga (and meditation/mindfulness?) in once in awhile?!?
Oh...AND you're teaching yourself a new very complex language!?!
:faint:

Is your body made of titanium and your brain of fiber optics?
Are you even from planet earth?
:giggle:

lol I don't know why I'm so caught up by you. I guess of everyone I've met here on these forums, you're the one I feel most opposite to when it comes to ADHD. Like I'm waaaaay over here on the left side of the ADHD spectrum. Here at the left side is "Predominantly Inattentive". Us daydreamers and scatter brained. We have a tough time being on time and can have a real tough time even getting some of the basic stuff in life done. We procrastinate and have a hard time finding the motivation to get up and move. We've most had very few real successes in life...moving from job to job if we can maintain at all.
Then there's the right side...and you're WAAAAAAAAY over there on the right! The "Hyper Actives". You guys feel as if you're driven...you got a motor running and so you gotta get up and be moving and going. You're daredevils and like to do things for the thrills, you have a hard time sitting still, a hard time focusing and paying attention, and it can lead to some real troubles in all sorts of ways!

Maybe someday I can start to push my way out of the far left and find my way more towards the middle? lol

I really put a lot of hope in getting...and much more importantly...maintaining a job to get me there. For some reason, life just seems like it'd work out so much better for me...be full of so much more meaning...if only I'd hold down a job.

Ronelh 05-14-18 03:12 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psychopathetic (Post 1994532)
Yeah, and I don't have that issue. I can imagine the apple in my head for as long as I can focus on doing so...then I can even start visualizing details about the apple. Whether it's red or green, the specks on it like some red apples have, the stem.
Or I tried visualizing a picture of my mom I have on my phone. I can see her face, and her shirt. I can then visualize the details. The smile, her glasses, her necklace. I can even start to visualize the background.

Yeah, I can visualize all sorts of details too. I think half of my inattentiveness is because of the very distracting and vivid pictures, movies, and audio files playing through my head, all the time (and often totally unrelated to whatever I'm doing). ;) Actually, I could totally not only picture the apple, but a whole story line to go with it, if I let myself run with it. :) For that reason, I spent most of my childhood playing "pretend" games. I also love to read novels because I can picture so vividly what is going on in the story.

It seems kinda sad to me not to be able to visualize things. Like being colorblind or something. But everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. It's interesting how people's brains work so differently.

LyrinMeow 05-14-18 04:41 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
If I make it seem easy, it's definitely not. lol

Well the yoga I do (try to do, I have some work tonight so won't be attending class) because of the fibromyalgia. If I don't do strenuous exercise (hot power yoga. The heat really loosens up the muscles) my entire body just hurts. If I can I normally do 2-4 classes a week. Alternate with walking/running.

And sometimes I literally have to drag myself out of my chair to do it.

Meditation I do just about every day. Both yoga and meditation are good for the mind and my mind can get really really nasty really quickly. That's why I'm on a ton of meds. Not on meds I do not function at all. Like at all. The few people I have told I am bipolar are amazed at how 'normal' I seem. That's because I'm heavily medicated to be that way. And I'm not just bipolar.

Honestly, low balling it, at least half my coworkers have some mental illness. Bunch of ADHD, depression, autism, OCD. Whatever is wrong with the workplace jerk, who is probably either a true narcissist or just a jerk. Either way something is wrong upstairs. We are just a normal team of dysfunctional developers.

And hell, if you want to program, learn to program. It's just a logic system really. All the languages work the same way. Just today I had written some code to fix one thing, went back to the code to fix another thing later, saw the first part of the code and thought to myself "hmm, why did I write this and what the hell does it do?". Our ADHD devs tend to hyper focus a lot. If you have a thing for programming and are able to grasp logical operations you can program. With ADHD you can REALLY get into programming.

https://www.codecademy.com/ Is a tutorial type website with some web languages. You don't get some of the tests and stuff for free but a lot of the content is still free I believe and it gives you an idea of coding.

https://www.w3schools.com/ is also good and has a lot of information. When my brain blanks on the syntax for a SQL statement I go there.

If you have any questions about the websites or coding feel free to ask me.

Also if you want to get a job then get a job. Just work with your psychiatrist/therapist/counselor to get on the medications you need and get the therapy you need and you'll be on your way. That's where my roommate is in the process. Also if you have any questions about that feel free to ask me as I've gone through the process.

I've been dating a lady for about 5 months now. Who I found on an online dating service which is why I keep telling everyone they aren't that bad and they can work. My friend found her girlfriend through the same website. And I didn't even want to sign up! My friends made me!

I think mostly what keeps me going isn't actually tied to a mental illness. It's my desire to go one step further. Get another inch into that yoga pose. Run the extra 10 minutes. Paddle another few miles. Entirely stubbornness. I have to push myself just that much farther or I feel as if I've accomplished nothing. You wouldn't want to see inside my head if I DON'T push myself or I miss a goal.

I've spent the last week or so in a nasty depression just sitting around on the forum posting everywhere. The fibromyalgia pain is back, and now I keep being woken up early by severe pain and I don't know why. it could be the fibromyalgia, unless it's the Risperdal. I need to call my psych tomorrow. Tomorrow I shouldn't have to work late so I'll be doing yoga most likely. Constant pain, even if relatively mild, really gets to you after a while. Makes you moody and depressed.

And oh boy have I bounced around jobs. My longest job was about 6 months until I was in my 30's. Been at my current job for over 3 years and was employed 1 and half years before switching. I actually worked both jobs for a bit. I've been solidly employed for like 5 years now. And I was completely non functioning prior to that.

So it is possible to "recover" to an "acceptable" level. I still fight every day. Sometimes I don't go to yoga or skip my Japanese or eat donuts for dinner because I can't be bothered to make anything. Some weekends I just sleep through if I'm not volunteering. I had to lead the kitty cat cage cleaning Sunday so i was up early. I'm taking a month off from my Tuesday night GED tutoring. Me and another woman take turns leading it. I do 2 months, she does 1, then I do 2 again.

For the tl;dr

My life is hard and I have to fight every day just like the rest of you do. It's very possible to get to a point where you can have the life you want or close to it. At the same time I can completely understand giving up. You do you and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Budkeiser 05-14-18 05:18 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LyrinMeow (Post 1994810)
I'm currently learning Japanese and I don't visualize anything. (No I am not 16 and just discovered anime.) I am trying to do the "not translating in your head" thing. I want to be fluent. But I can't even close my eyes and see the characters. I actually have no idea how I have memorized them to write them. I don't see the English alphabet either. If you say "think of a square" I think about "squareness" but I don't actually see one in any way. Its like my brain is a dictionary of properties. I can't think of any instance in which I think visually.

If you are studying "by yourself" to be fluent in a language (not translate), ideally it helps to be immersed as best as possible. I have studied numerous languages doing things by rote has really helped me. It has helped me identify the word and associate it with the meaning without translating.
When I was a teenager (back before the Berlin Wall fell), I would do exercises like alternate counting between two languages (forcing me to forgo translating to a third).
Another exercise is practice, practice, practice. I would have tried at every opportunity to practice. I once was in a Spanish class, writing Russian (in Cyrillic), conversing in French, to the German instructor. Now using the internet, I will text in French to learn Arabic.

Lastly, I donít have many opportunities to utilize French on a daily basis, so I use background information when I can. I have my calendars and radio stations in French.
I know that the characters of Japan and Chinese use the writing like pictures sometimes like for the word river. This is where visualization is really important. Not every language requires visualization as much as others, but Japanese, Chinese, and American Sign Language, are some good examples in my opinion.

psychopathetic 05-14-18 06:12 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LyrinMeow (Post 1994876)
For the tl;dr

No no! Not tl;dr!!
Ts;dre!! (Too Short; Didn't Read Enough!)

That was a great read and thank you for taking the time to share it!
I'm sorry that I minimized your experiences like I did.
I still envy you! :p
You still seem like a super hero in my head. lol
I realize that the meds do a lot, and that you have to fight super hard day in and day out just to maintain the basics...but it's really your attitude that drives you the most I think. The refusal to give in...the desire to do just a bit more...to keep pushing.

You've given me a hell of a lot to think about and I appreciate that.

I just realized as I was reading your post here...that I've totally become accustomed to quitting. Always. Like I dodn't even bother trying anymore! I give up before I even consider anything serious anymore.
And how sad is that? No wonder I'm not happy in my own skin.
I just float through life being a completely...self imposed...loser!

I REALLY need a 'win' or 2 under my belt in life to start to help build up my confidence...but hell...how can I get any wins, when I've given up trying to do even small goals at this point?

Damn that fear of quitting is strong though!
I think I'll make a new thread asking for some advice on this here soon.
I feel I'm close. If I could just get past that fear and take a leap of faith and find a job I'd like (which I'm pretty sure I can)...and then find a way to stick with the first 3 or 4 months...I could go far. I could hold onto employment and I'd soar!
It's that fear that holds me back!!! Grrrr.

(((((((Lys)))))))

Thank you for your post. It was inspiring and encouraging and I'm all sorts of in awe of you! I don't mean to minimize your struggles in life...I know you struggle like hell.

...oh and also, I love that you get to work with the people you work with! I love being with others who have mental health disorders...there's usually such a nice sense of non-judgment and acceptance. And you don't have to search for words, excuses and answers for being how you are and doing what you do...because they just "get it"! It's really nice having that.

LyrinMeow 05-14-18 06:19 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
Yes I am doing it on my own.

I'm about done learning hiragana. I can hear, write, and say them. I found a nice little app for that. (A demanding app that requires you review the letters like every 2 days. )These are like letters. I know some basic words but can't make a coherent sentence yet. Then there is katakana, which is another alphabet. And then there is kanji which are like Chinese where the characters represent some thing or idea. In fact they may have originated in China.

"In Japan, there are only 2,136 Jōyō kanji (lit. commonly-used kanji), which are the ones taught in school, though literate people usually know more."

I'm waiting to get to kanji to start immersion. I've also read that is how to learn another language as it's basically how children learn.

There is no shortage of Japenese things online. And I do like a nice anime sometimes.

LyrinMeow 05-14-18 06:23 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psychopathetic (Post 1994886)
I just realized as I was reading your post here...that I've totally become accustomed to quitting. Always. Like I dodn't even bother trying anymore! I give up before I even consider anything serious anymore.
And how sad is that? No wonder I'm not happy in my own skin.
I just float through life being a completely...self imposed...loser!

I REALLY need a 'win' or 2 under my belt in life to start to help build up my confidence...but hell...how can I get any wins, when I've given up trying to do even small goals at this point?

Well, how about going to one of those websites and doing one programming lesson? Just one. Usually takes about 5 minutes. Small steps.

Greyhound1 05-14-18 07:13 PM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tudorose (Post 1994655)
Nope don't relate at all. I had to take meds to think in words and everyone I've ever met with adhd is visual.

Hi, nice to meet you. I wanted you to meet someone who is not visual at all with ADHD.:)

There are a few of us here. Bella Vita a long time member comes to mind. We had a long thread in the past about thinking in words or images. Most did think visually.

I hear words only when I think. I can start to visualize my thoughts sometimes after creating the image from the words. The image lasts literately less than a second and is more like a flash of the image.

Drogheda 05-23-18 03:01 AM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LyrinMeow (Post 1994810)
. Do you sub-vocalize?

never knew there was a word for this, I do remember reading an article once about people who have to kind of panimime the words with their throat when they read.

ya, whenever I type or read it's the same as if I'm actively thinking err, in active thought, my voice only in my head.

on topic, I'm really vivid when it comes to visualization. sometimes I wonder if I tried my luck in actually painting I would be one of those "can draw literally anything" people. I can pan back in my head back and forth, I can also usually *mark* the images I want to keep. that goes with motion as well, often times it's like a video playing in their, but one of pure thought.

I'm more musical when it comes to this stuff though, an entire symphony can just pop in my head and man, I'm glad I found my phone because I can start humming each bar into it and compose.

often times the two will sync, I talked to my college psych about it and he says I have synesthesia. as in, when composing without a *pop* I'll picture something with color and everything and out will come a song

wazneverhere 05-30-18 12:38 AM

Re: Do you have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psychopathetic (Post 1994835)
lol...I just read your question and thought "WHOA!!!" and could totally hear the word "WHOA!!!" in my mind! It was really kind of a neat experience cause it's nothing I've ever noticed before...but I absolutely do "hear" the words I read (and think!). I don't know how to describe it as it's not "physically" hearing them...as there's no noise entering my ears! lol

...also, on a side note...you exhaust me Lys! lol I'm actually jealous. I wish I had a heck of a lot more of your "GO!" you got inside. I'm SO the opposite! My "GO!" container has a big hole at the very bottom so I'm always finding myself depleted of my "GO!" juice! :doh:
You're a programmer /MAJOR envy!
You do fun exciting physical things...like hiking, running and kayaking.
You take care of 1 'teen' kid, (and 1 'adult' kid! hehe :p ) as a single mother
You may (or may not? I don't really remember) be in the dating scene.
And you still find time to get some yoga (and meditation/mindfulness?) in once in awhile?!?
Oh...AND you're teaching yourself a new very complex language!?!
:faint:

Is your body made of titanium and your brain of fiber optics?
Are you even from planet earth?
:giggle:

lol I don't know why I'm so caught up by you. I guess of everyone I've met here on these forums, you're the one I feel most opposite to when it comes to ADHD. Like I'm waaaaay over here on the left side of the ADHD spectrum. Here at the left side is "Predominantly Inattentive". Us daydreamers and scatter brained. We have a tough time being on time and can have a real tough time even getting some of the basic stuff in life done. We procrastinate and have a hard time finding the motivation to get up and move. We've most had very few real successes in life...moving from job to job if we can maintain at all.
Then there's the right side...and you're WAAAAAAAAY over there on the right! The "Hyper Actives". You guys feel as if you're driven...you got a motor running and so you gotta get up and be moving and going. You're daredevils and like to do things for the thrills, you have a hard time sitting still, a hard time focusing and paying attention, and it can lead to some real troubles in all sorts of ways!

Maybe someday I can start to push my way out of the far left and find my way more towards the middle? lol

I really put a lot of hope in getting...and much more importantly...maintaining a job to get me there. For some reason, life just seems like it'd work out so much better for me...be full of so much more meaning...if only I'd hold down a job.

Ever considered the idea that this person is not real? You probably can't see it now, but think about it. It's all too good.


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