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-   -   Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged? (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184294)

tearsong 03-20-17 06:50 AM

Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
I know that many people with ADHD get called lazy. I've read (via literature) that this is simply not true, but I get stuck with what the difference is...
  • How do you know when you are (or someone else is) simply being lazy?
  • How do you know when you simply lack motivation to do something?
    • And is this the same as being lazy?
  • Is it possible to tell the difference (both externally (IE: someone watching your actions or behaviors) and internally (IE: judging your own actions)) between when you're truly being lazy -- even if unintentionally -- and when you're simply having trouble with initiation as a direct result of the disability?

(Have there been studies on this? Textbook readings...?)

fathom6 03-20-17 10:22 AM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
I feel your statement. I think our culture is becoming harsher and harsher, and people are increasingly taking fun in stereotyping individuals they dont like. That said, stereo-types also have some truth in it.

Being viewed/called 'lazy' is the stereo-type. And in reality, I would confess that I am a big pro-crastinator, I have trouble taking initiative, I dont like socializing, I overly fear people being cruel, and my movements/co-ordination is slower. All this is a recipe for being "called" lazy, the stereotype.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tearsong (Post 1937923)
I know that many people with ADHD get called lazy. I've read (via literature) that this is simply not true, but I get stuck with what the difference is...
  • How do you know when you are (or someone else is) simply being lazy?
  • How do you know when you simply lack motivation to do something?
    • And is this the same as being lazy?
  • Is it possible to tell the difference (both externally (IE: someone watching your actions or behaviors) and internally (IE: judging your own actions)) between when you're truly being lazy -- even if unintentionally -- and when you're simply having trouble with initiation as a direct result of the disability?

(Have there been studies on this? Textbook readings...?)


aeon 03-20-17 11:37 AM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tearsong (Post 1937923)
I know that many people with ADHD get called lazy. I've read (via literature) that this is simply not true, but I get stuck with what the difference is...
  • How do you know when you are (or someone else is) simply being lazy?
  • How do you know when you simply lack motivation to do something?
    • And is this the same as being lazy?
  • Is it possible to tell the difference (both externally (IE: someone watching your actions or behaviors) and internally (IE: judging your own actions)) between when you're truly being lazy -- even if unintentionally -- and when you're simply having trouble with initiation as a direct result of the disability?

(Have there been studies on this? Textbook readings...?)

Lazy is a judgment, not an inherent or expressed quality of the person so judged.


Cheers,
Ian

dvdnvwls 03-20-17 01:52 PM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
While aeon's description of laziness as a judgment is true, I think sometimes that word can seem unclear.

When person B calls person A lazy, it tells nothing about person A; it only signals person B's likes and dislikes. Calling yourself lazy is the same thing - it expresses likes and dislikes but no facts.

There are facts about what person A has done, and there are interpretations based on those facts. Interpretations are often wrong, usually because of the way we humans tend to guess when there's not enough information. When we don't know why another person acts a certain way, we usually guess that they're doing it for the same reason we'd be doing it ourselves. Very often, they're not.

The only way to know another person's reasons is to trust what they tell you. If they're lying, then you have a problem - but you still don't know their reasons.

Cyllya 03-20-17 06:07 PM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
Yeah, the problem with "lazy" is the implied moral judgment.

I'd normally be inclined to say that laziness is a symptom of numerous health conditions, but due to the implications of that word, I don't do so without further explanation.

The difference between normal laziness and pathological laziness is that laziness normally entails some expectation of benefit and you can stop being lazy whenever it suits your needs.

Invitation problems are often referred to as "lack of motivation," by both adhd folks and doctors/researchers, which drives me nuts. I think those two things should be distinguished. I wrote a big article on initiation impairment (see signature link), but the short version is that when you have zero motivation to do something, you can just not do it and it won't be a problem. Initiation impairment is when you decide you should do something, but for some irrational reason, you cannot make yourself do so (or it's stupidly hard to make yourself do it).

LowBudget 03-20-17 11:27 PM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
Thanks Cyllya for the link to your blog post. I always just thought I was an extreme procrastinator.

LowBudget 03-20-17 11:53 PM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
I find I often do alot but I accomplish little towards any sort of goal,. In other words I am busy but I do not get much done.

In our accomplishment, get things done goal orinatated society only those tasks that are completed are counted.. not all the dozens of little things we do everyday that do not add towards that one item we can count as done.

So unless we get something done we are sometimes called lazy or incompetent. I am horrible at getting things done, I am really good at doing things.. most are not really important and are often overlooked.

A really really long time back I journaled my daily activities and realized I was not lazy, just did many tasks that no one noticed. Such as I take a break and end up cleaning the break room. But the only thing noticed is I forget to clock back in and am late getting back from my break.. :(:eek:

My old doctor recently went away, the clinic is a bit mum on why or where he went, just that he is not there and they had no replacement, so I was sent to another clinic and the intake counselor asked me to write down my day and he was a bit shocked, even more so when he found I was on adderall decades earlier but the doctor decided I was not ADD. The doctor I was assigned to was baffled how I was so badly misdiagnosed over the years.

It has been a month now of adderall and I am actually getting a few things done.. actually done. But I still have plenty of issues and procrastination is one big one..

I am not sure, but I do think my unwillingness to start is my belief that I seldom finish anything. I have so dang many projects and unfinished tasks it isn't funny. but somehow, I do find more to do and somehow ignore and procrastinate beyond belief.

Is ADD to blame? maybe, I have succeeded in the past both on meds and off. For me it depended often on the setting.

I now wonder if maybe it is the sane part of me that stops me from starting another task?

Greyhound1 03-21-17 12:13 AM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
I think of laziness as someone being fully capable of something but just unwilling to do it.

Someone who is unmotivated is one who is willing and wanting to do that something but may or may not be capable due to a multitude of reasons.

dvdnvwls 03-21-17 05:00 AM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
Greyhound: I don't agree at all with your description of motivation. Motivation is not ability, and lack of motivation is not inability either. Motivation and ability are almost unrelated.

A motivated person has something that makes them want to act. That "something" can be internal (e.g. a feeling or idea) or external (e.g. a threat).

An unmotivated person has nothing encouraging them to act - no threats from outside, no feelings inside. They could still act, but why would they?


Often, with ADHD, I'm highly motivated (lots of ideas and feelings making me decide to act, plus often some threats from outside too), but all that motivation (I might even argue that I'm often over-motivated!) doesn't bring the desired results.

Think of the crime dramas... A motive is something that could make someone act.

userguide 03-22-17 12:53 PM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
So if you agree more or less that "laziness" is a judgment term with a strong cultural tint, I'd like to know how other cultures sort "laziness" from "internal state of low initiatiion".

Perhaps in cultures from non-western civilisation this distinction would be more enlightening ?

LowBudget 03-22-17 02:06 PM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
Quote:

la·zy
ˈlāzē/<input type="image" width="14" height="14">
adjective
adjective: lazy; comparative adjective: lazier; superlative adjective: laziest
1.
unwilling to work or use energy.
While it is often judgemental most of our lives are spent making decisions about how we interact with others. Now one sees a mental disability they see the symptoms. They judge on what they see and "perceive" to be true.

Unless people wear a name tag with their disability people will judge based on their own criteria.

if the OP is wondering what makes the difference between the descriptive words then that is not really just a judgement just a classification.


Quote:

un·mo·ti·vat·ed
ˌənˈmōdəˌvādəd/
adjective
adjective: unmotivated
1.
not having interest in or enthusiasm for something, especially work or study.
Unmotivated is another word seldom used in a kind or favorable light.. basically a nice way to say lazy in our society. But the word itself lends to a different reason for not working. Lazy is unwilling and unmotivated seems more like their are external/internal factors.

I would often describe myself as unmotivated but wouldn't go as far as lazy. (unless I was having a rel crappy day then I might be a lazy bum:mad:)



The last term is something I had never heard of before and as I am a epic procrastinator was intrigued by the term. But that looks like a part of a disability and the person may be able to learn coping skills but often they do not have any real "control" over the function.

LowBudget 03-22-17 02:10 PM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
After reading this thread and doing a bit of research on the one term (Initiation challenged) I had never heard of before. I do not ever recall if a doctor mentioned it, if they did, I didn't pick up on it.

As an EPIC procrastinator I now wonder why that was left out of the mix?

dvdnvwls 03-22-17 03:22 PM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
I have a feeling (though I don't know) that cultures around the world would all call me lazy.

sarahsweets 03-24-17 01:37 AM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
This is a very loose idea of lazy but I would say it has more to do with intent, like Cylla kind of said, lazy seems to be the idea that you know you should do something or could but either you willingly or knowingly do not want to bother doing it, or you think someone else should do something instead of you, or you assume someone else will do whatever it is you dont want to do... I am doing a bad job at describing what I mean but to me, lazy is sort of like not doing something or doing as little as possible on purpose.

dvdnvwls 03-24-17 02:04 AM

Re: Lazy vs Unmotivated vs Initiation-Challenged?
 
I tend to agree - but then I think "on purpose" is often very difficult or impossible to know, which means laziness is an extremely hard-to-validate diagnosis.

In short, calling someone lazy is a lazy thing to do. :)


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