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-   -   Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182577)

ginniebean 01-09-17 12:28 PM

Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
I'm not sure if this had been brought up before or often on here but I was reading this article this morning on this subject.

Quote:

Rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD) is an extreme emotional sensitivity and emotional pain triggered by the perception – not necessarily the reality – that a person has been rejected, teased, or criticized by important people in their life. RSD may also be triggered by a sense of failure, or falling short – failing to meet either their own high standards or others’ expectations.
i found the fulk article here.

http://m.additudemag.com/?url=http%3...referrer=#2947

in the article it states that it manifests in 3 ways

Quote:

1. They become people pleasers.They scan every person they meet to figure out what that person admires and praises. Then, that’s the false self they present. Often this becomes such a dominating goal that they forget what they actually wanted from their own lives. They are too busy making sure other people aren’t displeased with them.

2. They stop trying.If there is the slightest possibility that a person might try something new and fail or fall short in front of anyone else, it’s just too painful and too risky to even consider. So, these people just don’t. These are the very bright, capable people who become the slackers of the world and do absolutely nothing with their lives because making any effort is so anxiety-provoking. They give up going on dates, applying for jobs, or speaking in meetings.

Some people use the pain of RSD to find adaptations and overachieve.They constantly work to be the best at what they do. Or, they are driven to be above criticism/reproach. They lead admirable lives, but at what cost? They strive for perfection, which is never attainable, and are constantly driven to achieve more.

i can attest to all of the above being part of my life.. The emotionally overwhelming enotions that make me feel like I'm walking into a loaded gun at times.

Having experienced bullying as both a child and an adult I have known that I am doing something to invite this but generally not knowing what. i'm different in that general amorphous way that has no clear shape or form is what I've told myself. Over time and years I have come to realise some of the things I've been doing that invite poor behaviour to me but sometimes it's like trying to look for something in a kalaidoscope except generally the images are horrible.

i remember reading etiquette books when I was younger so I could learn "all the rules" and i did mean all of them. the pain of being wrong somehow has been excruciating.

i have worked at over achieving and I am definitely a workaholic. I don't want to be, in many ways it's ruining my life and taking my life away from me.

One of the things mentioned in this article is that therapy does no good for RSD because the emotions hit so hard and fast that the mind and senses are overwhelmed.

I can attest to these triggers being overwhelming and immediate and beyond any ability to self calm or reason.

About 30 years ago I began a mindfulness practice that I continue to this day and i have tried veey specifically to use it for this and my success has been limited if any at all.

Adhd gives me problems but this RSD gives me such pain and ruins and interferes with my relationships. i can't be medicated for my adhd because of the severe side effects but maybe I could be medicated for this.

I realise this is a very tender topic, that for some, even to respond may be too much, and to those I feel ya and I'm so sorry you can't bring yourself to expose. For those who can, I am very interested in your thoughts and experiences.

finallyfound10 01-09-17 01:25 PM

Re: Rejection Sensotive Dysphoria
 
It has been brought here before and I believe that it is so important that it can't be brought up enough since it impacts so many of us! Do a search and you'll be amazed! I even have it in my signature as one of issues!!

I don't think that I've ever read any posts from people who have tried Clonidine or Intuiv and the other meds that are supposed to help it but I would LOVE to hear what people have to say about it! Perhaps these meds would work for you. They are also listed on the medication thread here.

If ONE has poor behavior and is treated poorly by those experiencing the poor behavior that isn't classic bullying, IMHO. It might be more tit for tat- unless the receiver of the poor behavior really overreacts and won't let it go and it gets out of hand then it could go into classic bullying.

Many ADHDers are bullied in classical and more covert ways and it's horrific. I have no real advice about it, unfortunately. I've experienced it before in social and work situations and it's happening now at work and one of the lower-level reasons that I need to find a new job.

Greyhound1 01-09-17 01:33 PM

Re: Rejection Sensotive Dysphoria
 
Wow Ginnie,
That really hits home, I can relate so well to this. I am now anxious to try guanfacine and clonidine. Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety and stimulant medications have offered little to no help with this.

Thanks for posting!

Fraser_0762 01-09-17 01:55 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
With the exception of very close family members, I feel completely rejected by everybody else that i've ever came across. It's got to a point now where I don't even try to make real friends anymore. I've excepted that isolation is going to forever be a huge part of my life.

Edit: It's not just making friends though. I fear i'm going to be rejected in just about any social situation, or any situation where I step outside my comfort zone.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention ginniebean. Reading about how it effects peoples lives is like reading my own life story. Capable, but too afraid to try out of the fear of rejection.

Greyhound1 01-09-17 03:07 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Do other experts of ADHD believe in RSD and support Dr. Dodson? I can't find any other info on it that's not attributed to him.

Does anyone know Dr. Barkley's take on RSD?

Fraser_0762 01-09-17 03:17 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyhound1 (Post 1862431)
Do other experts of ADHD believe in RSD and support Dr. Dodson? I can't find any other info on it that's not attributed to him.

Does anyone know Dr. Barkley's take on RSD?

Dr Barkley talks about emotional dysregulation and how it is often overlooked in people with ADHD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-QC4voqmRg

It seems to be an issue that the DSM over looks and something that's certainly worth taking greater consideration over.

dvdnvwls 01-09-17 04:59 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Reading etiquette books and eagerly/desperately learning the contents step by step one at a time, and struggling to remember them all because they don't make sense, can possibly sometimes link with autism, where understanding others' motivations "in real time" is difficult or impossible.

ginniebean 01-09-17 05:01 PM

Re: Rejection Sensotive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by finallyfound10 (Post 1862423)
It has been brought here before and I believe that it is so important that it can't be brought up enough since it impacts so many of us! Do a search and you'll be amazed! I even have it in my signature as one of issues!!

I don't think that I've ever read any posts from people who have tried Clonidine or Intuiv and the other meds that are supposed to help it but I would LOVE to hear what people have to say about it! Perhaps these meds would work for you. They are also listed on the medication thread here.

If ONE has poor behavior and is treated poorly by those experiencing the poor behavior that isn't classic bullying, IMHO. It might be more tit for tat- unless the receiver of the poor behavior really overreacts and won't let it go and it gets out of hand then it could go into classic bullying.

Many ADHDers are bullied in classical and more covert ways and it's horrific. I have no real advice about it, unfortunately. I've experienced it before in social and work situations and it's happening now at work and one of the lower-level reasons that I need to find a new job.

i am so sorrt to hear of your ongoing difficulties
i think a lot more of us have this issue but the painfulness of even admitting it, which has surely been true for me is perhaps the hardest part k

ginniebean 01-09-17 05:02 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyhound1 (Post 1862431)
Do other experts of ADHD believe in RSD and support Dr. Dodson? I can't find any other info on it that's not attributed to him.

Does anyone know Dr. Barkley's take on RSD?

Omg! You mean this might even not be recognised? i think my heart just hit the floor. i will have to look around and see what I can find. Additude magazine printed it but.. A one off? i so hope not

ginniebean 01-09-17 05:07 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762 (Post 1862426)
With the exception of very close family members, I feel completely rejected by everybody else that i've ever came across. It's got to a point now where I don't even try to make real friends anymore. I've excepted that isolation is going to forever be a huge part of my life.

Edit: It's not just making friends though. I fear i'm going to be rejected in just about any social situation, or any situation where I step outside my comfort zone.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention ginniebean. Reading about how it effects peoples lives is like reading my own life story. Capable, but too afraid to try out of the fear of rejection.

i know how tragic those feelings are Fraser. The isolation, rage and pain invilved.
.I have always felt a kinship with you. We both speak from the hip, and have a lot of mannerisms in common. i've always felt very affectionately about you for this reason.

I hope you know there are people, at least on here who think you're quite wonderful.

ginniebean 01-09-17 05:09 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dvdnvwls (Post 1862461)
Reading etiquette books and eagerly/desperately learning the contents step by step one at a time, and struggling to remember them all because they don't make sense, can possibly sometimes link with autism, where understanding others' motivations "in real time" is difficult or impossible.

yes David, it's all a big mix in my mind. it's very likely I'm an assburger i hope i didn't spell that stupid. i read up how it shows in women and i definitely fit that profile. i can be very ruke oriented, it would be so much nicer if ine could know all the rules but I just don't think this teeming mass of humanity is as rule needing as I am.

Fraser_0762 01-09-17 05:10 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ginniebean (Post 1862467)
i know how tragic those feelings are Fraser. The isolation, rage and pain invilved.
.I have always felt a kinship with you. We both speak from the hip, and have a lot of mannerisms in common. i've always felt very affectionately about you for this reason.

I hope you know there are people, at least on here who think you're quite wonderful.

Thanks ginniebean. Likewise. We have a lot in common, plus we're just that extra bit special because of the hair. ;)

We could rule the world together if we put our minds together. :)

Did I say rule?... :scratch: I err, meant destroy.

ginniebean 01-09-17 05:11 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
And so we destroy!!!!! :)

finallyfound10 01-10-17 03:03 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762 (Post 1862435)
Dr Barkley talks about emotional dysregulation and how it is often overlooked in people with ADHD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-QC4voqmRg

It seems to be an issue that the DSM over looks and something that's certainly worth taking greater consideration over.

RSD is less a physical outburst than it is a verbal outburst when it's the rage part being activated rather than the emotional part according to Dodson.

I'm not saying that Barkley is wrong but maybe RSD doesn't affect the anterior cingulate like what he's talking about.

http://www.dodsonadhdcenter.com/reje...ive-dysphoria/

BellaVita 01-10-17 03:26 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ginniebean (Post 1862468)
yes David, it's all a big mix in my mind. it's very likely I'm an assburger i hope i didn't spell that stupid. i read up how it shows in women and i definitely fit that profile. i can be very ruke oriented, it would be so much nicer if ine could know all the rules but I just don't think this teeming mass of humanity is as rule needing as I am.

I spent a good majority of my life reading books on body language and social rules, as well as researching online about body language and social rules and what the right behaviors are and what they all mean, as well as reading books on learning facial expressions. You wouldn't believe how much time I have put into all of that throughout the years. I guess it was my way of coping – I desperately tried to learn how to fit in socially – before discovering I have autism.

I have spent so much of my life studying all of that, and sometimes I can pull off appearing to be almost NT for like a couple minutes( I mean literally only a couple minutes), but it's an impossible task and people always see through that I am different. All of the studying in the world has still not helped me to fit in with most people.

The scripting and trying to make sure I'm doing the right body language and trying to understand the other person's tone of voice and facial expressions all at once while at the same time being clueless of what the other person might be thinking or feeling in real time is absolutely draining.

ginniebean 01-10-17 04:21 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Yes I too researched body language, learned it's important to say hello and smile, learned to never answer the question "how are you?" with anything but fine.

it's actually very difficult to find information on unwritten social rules. i think it could be that NT's are not self aware of their behaviour and have no clue they do it, they just knkw when it's off, which aleays kinda ****** me off when they so smugly talk about our self awareness being lacking.

i've tried researching these social rules but it's slim pickins.

To this day I have trouble with facial expression except anger, disapproval, and happiness. Others could juat mean anything.

BellaVita 01-10-17 04:40 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ginniebean (Post 1862604)
Yes I too researched body language, learned it's important to say hello and smile, learned to never answer the question "how are you?" with anything but fine.

it's actually very difficult to find information on unwritten social rules. i think it could be that NT's are not self aware of their behaviour and have no clue they do it, they just knkw when it's off, which aleays kinda ****** me off when they so smugly talk about our self awareness being lacking.

i've tried researching these social rules but it's slim pickins.

To this day I have trouble with facial expression except anger, disapproval, and happiness. Others could juat mean anything.

There is a thread somewhere on this forum that lists some social rules.

I totally get it about the facial expressions, even after all of that studying I still can't figure out what other peoples face expressions mean in real time. I don't have enough time to analyze, like I would a still picture of a facial expression. It leads to me asking questions like "are you angry". Because I really cannot tell at all. I've also noticed that when I ask if a person is displaying a certain facial expression, for some reason I'm always wrong. I think the only one I am OK with is that I know smiling is generally a good thing, but there can be fake smiles too so that throws me off.

You know what is also frustrating? Those social rules often differ depending on the type of people you are around, so after you learn one thing you can't even apply it to everybody you have to learn each and every person individually.

Let's just say I learned that the hard way and I still struggle because I often accidentally make generalizations and falsely apply them.

Sorry I didn't mean to go off topic, thank you for sharing your OP. I'm not 100% sure which parts I relate to and which parts I don't. I do know that I am very sensitive though in general.

ginniebean 01-10-17 12:52 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762 (Post 1862435)
Dr Barkley talks about emotional dysregulation and how it is often overlooked in people with ADHD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-QC4voqmRg

It seems to be an issue that the DSM over looks and something that's certainly worth taking greater consideration over.

i just looked at this again. i had seen the video before but now in this new light It becomes a little different.
.I know when I have lost it, I cannot for my life suppress it. i know Barkley says things like count to ten and offers these sorts of ideas but the wash of emotional turmoil I feel overwhelma my reason. i can hear the thoughts saying all sorts of moderating things, i can even be telling myself don't do it, don't go there, but then one more thing is said or done and WHAM the horse is out of the barn and there is no running after it until it comes back exhaisted and ashamed as hell.

i think RSF explanation fits better in a sense tho they are talking about thr same thing. Barkley tries to be upbeat, he also believes consequences, immediate ones are what will help but I've had immediate consequnces and * could give a flying fig! If the horse is out and running I'm beyind any ability I can muster to deal with that situation.

I will note that it is generally not the one singular event that has me losing it but generally a series of often complex events over time and then all hell breaks loose into rage. i contrast this with a compliant, people pleasing "sweet" nature that many comment upon when meeting me. Lion/lamb kinda deal.

About 17 years ago I went thru some very brutal emotional stuff. i had never experienced the emotion of hatred before. i had used the word in reference to things but I had not experienced for myself that dark ugliness. i had homicidal ideation. i killed someone in my ssleep every night for months and months. i became sleep avoidant and ended up suffering from sleep deprivation on top of everything.

Since that time something changed in side me, I had never been one to fly off the handle, I remember i had a recurring dream from the time I was a child of being hunted by a killer, this dream terrified me. One night during this dark time I had this dream as I often did during those months and the thought, in my dream came to me that I could kill the killer. And in my dream I did just that.

There have been good things and bad things come out of this. i am not terrified of confrontation as I once was so that'a a positive. i can say, "no, I don't want to do that when before that was nearly impossible. i am not afraid to disappoint and in a sense got my life back to live as I please instead of trying to please others. The down side of this is when I feel pushed too far there is this unmanageable rage. It doesn't come all the time, but enough to cause me concern.

So, we have rwo guys one who says we can make efforts on our own to moderate our emotional reactions (Barkley) and one who says this is beyond such self help. (can't. Remember his name) and I'm inclined to believe this second person over Barkley because that is my experience of dealing with this untamable beast. i can't begin to say how determined I struggled with this. i am a bulldog in some ways. I realise now I've hurt myself trying and perhaps even broken myself at times needing years of healing with my dogged determination to fight the unfightable.

I apologise if that's TMI I am usually much more reticent to put out such personal things about myself but this subject is of such monumental interest to me because of my great struggles with it. if this beast could be killed I would have already.

ginniebean 01-10-17 12:53 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
oh hey greyhound, thanks for fixing my typo. i thought I had been more careful but I guess I wasn't. Much appreciated

ginniebean 01-10-17 01:02 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaVita (Post 1862606)
There is a thread somewhere on this forum that lists some social rules.

I totally get it about the facial expressions, even after all of that studying I still can't figure out what other peoples face expressions mean in real time. I don't have enough time to analyze, like I would a still picture of a facial expression. It leads to me asking questions like "are you angry". Because I really cannot tell at all. I've also noticed that when I ask if a person is displaying a certain facial expression, for some reason I'm always wrong. I think the only one I am OK with is that I know smiling is generally a good thing, but there can be fake smiles too so that throws me off.

You know what is also frustrating? Those social rules often differ depending on the type of people you are around, so after you learn one thing you can't even apply it to everybody you have to learn each and every person individually.

Let's just say I learned that the hard way and I still struggle because I often accidentally make generalizations and falsely apply them.

Sorry I didn't mean to go off topic, thank you for sharing your OP. I'm not 100% sure which parts I relate to and which parts I don't. I do know that I am very sensitive though in general.

have you noticed those still pictures are tough? i guess and then when I've looked at the answer and thought "huh, how is that what they say it is? Even still pictures elude me.

finallyfound10 01-10-17 02:05 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ginniebean (Post 1862659)
i just looked at this again. i had seen the video before but now in this new light It becomes a little different.
.I know when I have lost it, I cannot for my life suppress it. i know Barkley says things like count to ten and offers these sorts of ideas but the wash of emotional turmoil I feel overwhelma my reason. i can hear the thoughts saying all sorts of moderating things, i can even be telling myself don't do it, don't go there, but then one more thing is said or done and WHAM the horse is out of the barn and there is no running after it until it comes back exhaisted and ashamed as hell.

i think RSF explanation fits better in a sense tho they are talking about thr same thing. Barkley tries to be upbeat, he also believes consequences, immediate ones are what will help but I've had immediate consequnces and * could give a flying fig! If the horse is out and running I'm beyind any ability I can muster to deal with that situation.

I will note that it is generally not the one singular event that has me losing it but generally a series of often complex events over time and then all hell breaks loose into rage. i contrast this with a compliant, people pleasing "sweet" nature that many comment upon when meeting me. Lion/lamb kinda deal.

About 17 years ago I went thru some very brutal emotional stuff. i had never experienced the emotion of hatred before. i had used the word in reference to things but I had not experienced for myself that dark ugliness. i had homicidal ideation. i killed someone in my ssleep every night for months and months. i became sleep avoidant and ended up suffering from sleep deprivation on top of everything.

Since that time something changed in side me, I had never been one to fly off the handle, I remember i had a recurring dream from the time I was a child of being hunted by a killer, this dream terrified me. One night during this dark time I had this dream as I often did during those months and the thought, in my dream came to me that I could kill the killer. And in my dream I did just that.

There have been good things and bad things come out of this. i am not terrified of confrontation as I once was so that'a a positive. i can say, "no, I don't want to do that when before that was nearly impossible. i am not afraid to disappoint and in a sense got my life back to live as I please instead of trying to please others. The down side of this is when I feel pushed too far there is this unmanageable rage. It doesn't come all the time, but enough to cause me concern.

So, we have rwo guys one who says we can make efforts on our own to moderate our emotional reactions (Barkley) and one who says this is beyond such self help. (can't. Remember his name) and I'm inclined to believe this second person over Barkley because that is my experience of dealing with this untamable beast. i can't begin to say how determined I struggled with this. i am a bulldog in some ways. I realise now I've hurt myself trying and perhaps even broken myself at times needing years of healing with my dogged determination to fight the unfightable.

I apologise if that's TMI I am usually much more reticent to put out such personal things about myself but this subject is of such monumental interest to me because of my great struggles with it. if this beast could be killed I would have already.


(((ginnie)))

I am sorry that you had to experience such horrible situation.

Johnny Slick 01-10-17 04:47 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
So... my therapist isn't terribly into the term. When I broached it he replaced it with narcissism. I do think that in fairness RSD isn't *exactly* an intrinsic part of ADHD. I mean, an awful lot of us get it (or whatever it is you want to call it) but people who don't ever struggle with ADHD but have something else holding them back during their formative years can absolutely exhibit many of the same symptoms and have something that is more or less identical to what we call RSD.

I'm not sure this is something that is easily medicate-able away either (sorry to the OP). This is usually the result of coping/defense mechanisms we came up with while everyone around us was telling us we were too lazy or too stupid to keep up, not a chemical imbalance. At most you might find some drug that will help alleviate some of the symptoms while you come up with better coping strategies (themselves based on your newly found reality as a person who has a learning disability) but I would not expect a panacea.

I also think that restricting things to the "people pleaser" and "avoidance" tropes is underselling what it does to folks. I mean, to *some* extent you can interpret those terms broadly but I'm not sure if that's helpful either. Some people take that ADHDness about themselves and push themselves super hard into being perfect at everything they try (so they never have to face the rejection). Some people keep very tight control over things in their life, which isn't avoiding things, it's actively trying to take them over yourself. Some people learn how to manipulate others into doing the things they don't feel comfortable doing themselves. And yes, of course some people just keep a portion of themselves emotionally locked up and try to please others. I feel like it's important to be empathetic here that just because the initial core concept of RSD applies to you doesn't mean that that's how it manifests in everyone.

FWIW I've had a pretty decent reaction to a relatively low dosage of Ritalin but this is still something I am working through. Right now I'm at the stage where I know that the thoughts that drive a lot of this stuff are irrational and don't make a lot of sense; I am not quite at the point of being able to kick them out of my mind.

dvdnvwls 01-10-17 05:25 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
The still pictures presented as examples are mostly actors pretending to have a certain emotion. That's probably why you don't get those - you're able to spot the inconsistencies in the actor's fake expressions because of your more-specific method of observing.

Simply: Unlike the average person, you don't know which parts of the face you're expected to ignore. That confuses you, but also makes you hard to fool. Sort of. :)

BellaVita 01-10-17 08:47 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ginniebean (Post 1862661)
have you noticed those still pictures are tough? i guess and then when I've looked at the answer and thought "huh, how is that what they say it is? Even still pictures elude me.

Yes, I made an embarrassing thread back in the day where I posted a bunch of still images of David Archuleta's facial expressions – and I thought he was displaying fear based on what I have studied.

Well it turns out he wasn't.

In order for me to get close to having the right answer for a still image, I need like four multiple-choice options where one of those options is the correct answer, and then applying the things I have learned about facial expressions and have studied, I am a bit more likely to be right.

Like I try to think of OK are the eyebrows in this position, how open is the mouth, are the eyes a little bit wide or are they very wide, are the corners of the mouth turned up downward. And then I try to deduce which is the correct one based on the things I have memorized - to see which facial expression I am likely seeing displayed.

Paul Ekman's books are very helpful and help explain facial expressions in A detailed way. And there are pictures too. I suggest checking out his works and his books if you haven't already.

ginniebean 01-10-17 11:51 PM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick (Post 1862698)
So... my therapist isn't terribly into the term. When I broached it he replaced it with narcissism. I do think that in fairness RSD isn't *exactly* an intrinsic part of ADHD. I mean, an awful lot of us get it (or whatever it is you want to call it) but people who don't ever struggle with ADHD but have something else holding them back during their formative years can absolutely exhibit many of the same symptoms and have something that is more or less identical to what we call RSD.

I'm not sure this is something that is easily medicate-able away either (sorry to the OP). This is usually the result of coping/defense mechanisms we came up with while everyone around us was telling us we were too lazy or too stupid to keep up, not a chemical imbalance. At most you might find some drug that will help alleviate some of the symptoms while you come up with better coping strategies (themselves based on your newly found reality as a person who has a learning disability) but I would not expect a panacea.

I also think that restricting things to the "people pleaser" and "avoidance" tropes is underselling what it does to folks. I mean, to *some* extent you can interpret those terms broadly but I'm not sure if that's helpful either. Some people take that ADHDness about themselves and push themselves super hard into being perfect at everything they try (so they never have to face the rejection). Some people keep very tight control over things in their life, which isn't avoiding things, it's actively trying to take them over yourself. Some people learn how to manipulate others into doing the things they don't feel comfortable doing themselves. And yes, of course some people just keep a portion of themselves emotionally locked up and try to please others. I feel like it's important to be empathetic here that just because the initial core concept of RSD applies to you doesn't mean that that's how it manifests in everyone.

FWIW I've had a pretty decent reaction to a relatively low dosage of Ritalin but this is still something I am working through. Right now I'm at the stage where I know that the thoughts that drive a lot of this stuff are irrational and don't make a lot of sense; I am not quite at the point of being able to kick them out of my mind.

I do not meet the criteria for narcissim and wow.. It would be the last time I'd see that therapist. All I know of this disorder or what ever it is comes from exactly one magazine article. I can't possibly comment on your objections.

Johnny Slick 01-11-17 12:02 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
He's using the term not as an adjunct to NPD, which I agree would be horrible, but as a way of noting that I've been very inwardly directed. That in the end is the the crux of what we're calling RSD: we get bogged down in our own perceptions of things so much that it's hard for us to see objective reality, especially when (without a diagnosis) objective reality sure does suggest that we're giant flaming sacks of crap.

In the end, just because you think you hate yourself doesn't necessarily mean you're not behaving narcissistically, at least from the common English language usage and not the clinical meaning.

As for further reading, I will once again plug "You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Crazy, or Stupid?". Chapter 3 talks about coping mechanism the undiagnosed use and how it affects us.

daveddd 01-11-17 12:09 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
sounds about like me

havent heard of the name, its some of what i put in my 'avoidant traits ' for a long time

but really, i dont care what its called but it describes me well

Johnny Slick 01-11-17 12:10 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
FTR for years I had myself self diagnosed with Avoidant Personality Disorder, so please understand that to great extent I'm probably just splitting hairs above.

daveddd 01-11-17 12:11 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick (Post 1862762)
FTR for years I had myself self diagnosed with Avoidant Personality Disorder, so please understand that to great extent I'm probably just splitting hairs above.



is the avoidant thing a response to what i wrote

sorry if it was, my response was to the thread

dvdnvwls 01-11-17 12:14 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Having a narcissistic thought doesn't make you a narcissist, just as having a bad day and saying "I hate people" doesn't make you a sociopath.

ginniebean 01-11-17 12:17 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
I found another couple of articles.


This one by Dr. Charles Parker

http://www.corepsych.com/2013/06/dod...oria-and-adhd/

and this one by Larry Letich in Additude magazine. Wierd that I've always kind of avoided that site. Anyway, the comments after this article are reminiscent of my feelings upon this discovery. I am definitely going to pursue this much further.


http://connect.additudemag.com/group..._do_you_think/

daveddd 01-11-17 12:24 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyhound1 (Post 1862431)
Do other experts of ADHD believe in RSD and support Dr. Dodson? I can't find any other info on it that's not attributed to him.

Does anyone know Dr. Barkley's take on RSD?

https://books.google.com/books?id=4B...tivity&f=false

i think he would believe it

maybe he doesnt call it by the same name, but in 'what the science says' he has interpersonal sensitivity as the second biggest issue in ADHD


i'm assuming there is a correlation between that and the named disorder

ginniebean 01-11-17 12:29 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daveddd (Post 1862769)
https://books.google.com/books?id=4B...tivity&f=false

i think he would believe it

maybe he doesnt call it by the same name, but in 'what the science says' he has interpersonal sensitivity as the second biggest issue in ADHD


i'm assuming there is a correlation between that and the named disorder

Thanks for chiming in, where have you been?? OMG I thought you were gone.

Glad to see you're not.

BTW, I do think Barkley would also agree, perhaps not that it is another condition but that it is a piece of adhd, a big piece. I know I feel like I've got a name to point to and perhaps even some hope. This really holds me back.

daveddd 01-11-17 12:30 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ginniebean (Post 1862771)
Thanks for chiming in, where have you been?? OMG I thought you were gone.

Glad to see you're not.

about as here as i can be, thanks for askin

you good?

ginniebean 01-11-17 12:35 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Yeah really good actually :) thanks for asking.

Johnny Slick 01-11-17 12:56 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
The thought process is narcissistic though, by the self-centered use of the word. Note that I did not say he's called me "a narcissist".

daveddd 01-11-17 01:07 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick (Post 1862777)
The thought process is narcissistic though, by the self-centered use of the word. Note that I did not say he's called me "a narcissist".

in an incredibly generic , unrelated to any basis in psychology way, possibly

and honestly completely unhelpful

but an intense monitoring of your thoughts , inner world, actions,etc hyper vigilance to surroundings is a very well documented group of characteristics in people with issues regulating their emotions (shame comes to mind here)

i dont understand the point of grouping that in with haughty , glib, grandiose behavior ... as a psychotherapist its likely projection, theyre known for that

ginniebean 01-11-17 02:32 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick (Post 1862758)
He's using the term not as an adjunct to NPD, which I agree would be horrible, but as a way of noting that I've been very inwardly directed. That in the end is the the crux of what we're calling RSD: we get bogged down in our own perceptions of things so much that it's hard for us to see objective reality, especially when (without a diagnosis) objective reality sure does suggest that we're giant flaming sacks of crap.

In the end, just because you think you hate yourself doesn't necessarily mean you're not behaving narcissistically, at least from the common English language usage and not the clinical meaning.

As for further reading, I will once again plug "You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Crazy, or Stupid?". Chapter 3 talks about coping mechanism the undiagnosed use and how it affects us.

I think it's really important to be careful with notions of interchangeability ADHD is already so stigmatized, to begin to say that well over 90% of us display narcissistic traits, is deeply horrifying in this sense. Which is why I'd probably give this therapist a piece of my mind but also walk on out.

I work every day with people who have multiple diagnosis. These are people coming out of jails into care. I like my job, it's challenging and mentally stimulating for me. Being around people who are mentally ill, and many severely so, makes me really cautious about mis-attribution which I think this would be classified as. I can understand how APD could be attributed but there's just too many of us. I'm skeptical.

dvdnvwls 01-11-17 05:56 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
No attribution happened at all - neither mis-attribution nor accurate attribution. The word "narcissistic" describing a thought doesn't at all relate to an NPD diagnosis.

But I see how the whole thing can be misconstrued and can accidentally sound horrible. It's an innocent clash of terminology, but probably should have been re-worded to prevent confusion.

eclectic beagle 01-11-17 11:04 AM

Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
 
Well, I suppose it would depend. Does the person afflicted with rejection sensitive dysphoria typically display reactions to criticism that are similar to narcissistic injury?


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