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-   -   Supplements for the treatment of ADHD, Scientific Evidence/Research (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63981)

mctavish23 02-16-09 09:19 PM

Supplements for the treatment of ADHD, Scientific Evidence/Research
 
There are no long term studies,published in mainstream, peer reviewed journals,

supporting any nutritional/dietary supplement as a clinical treatment for ADHD.

Everyone needs to eat a healthy diet, as well as get plenty of both excercise and rest.

Those can have a dramatic impact on the quality of a person's day to day life.

For now, those don't impact the treatment of ADHD.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

reesah 02-17-09 12:22 AM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mctavish23 (Post 701388)
There are no long term studies,published in mainstream, peer reviewed journals,

supporting any nutritional/dietary supplement as a clinical treatment for ADHD.

Everyone needs to eat a healthy diet, as well as get plenty of both excercise and rest.

Those can have a dramatic impact on the quality of a person's day to day life.

For now, those don't impact the treatment of ADHD.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

So, none of these things are helpful for ADD? Or are they just not clinical treatments? And for those like me who don't really know the difference can you explain? I'm curious because I read so much about these things that may help with some one symptom or another, but know that medical help seems to treat all of them at once; I just don't know if that is what you mean or if you're saying none of these will help at all.

stillfightin 02-17-09 12:28 AM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by reesah (Post 701526)
So, none of these things are helpful for ADD? Or are they just not clinical treatments? And for those like me who don't really know the difference can you explain? I'm curious because I read so much about these things that may help with some one symptom or another, but know that medical help seems to treat all of them at once; I just don't know if that is what you mean or if you're saying none of these will help at all.

He can't say they are not helpful for ADHD as many people on this forum will attest that supplements do help to an extent. He's saying there are no clinical studies on supplements for the treatment of ADHD. Visit the misc treatment section for more info.

mctavish23 02-17-09 12:48 AM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Helpful can be attributed to a sense of wellbeing or,in the case of Omega 3's, good for

your heart,etc.

"Helpful for ADHD" is synonymous with "treatment."

So the answer is still the same.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

reesah 02-17-09 12:58 AM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
So none of them make any difference at all then, for ADD. That's what I was wondering.

stillfightin 02-17-09 01:44 AM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mctavish23 (Post 701560)
Helpful can be attributed to a sense of wellbeing or,in the case of Omega 3's, good for

your heart,etc.

"Helpful for ADHD" is synonymous with "treatment."

So the answer is still the same.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

And because there is no peer reviewed study showing supplements do not help with ADHD, they should be discounted? I disagree... Every substance is naturally derived from herbs/vitamins/minerals. Supplements are that first step and pharma's isolate those properties and use chemistry to make them more potent.

reesah 02-17-09 02:08 AM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stillfightin (Post 701608)
And because there is no peer reviewed study showing supplements do not help with ADHD, they should be discounted? I disagree... Every substance is naturally derived from herbs/vitamins/minerals. Supplements are that first step and pharma's isolate those properties and use chemistry to make them more potent.

I think it means none of them are proven, so do not get your hopes up.

bookwurm2 02-17-09 02:17 AM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
"He's saying there are no clinical studies on supplements for the treatment of ADHD."

But there are such studies. There are double-blind randomized placebo-controlled studies on supplements for the treatment of ADHD (and published in reputable peer-reviewed journals) in which significantly statistic results were found. There is room for discussion over what the studies mean, but as a factual matter, some studies have been done.

mctavish23 02-17-09 02:53 PM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
There's a distinct difference between accurately qouting the current literature and

discounting something.

I take pharmaceutical grade Omega's daily, as well as a multi-vitamin.

I also workout and eat a high protein diet,including shakes & bars.

Because of my work, where I have an ethical obligation to not only keep up with the

literature on all aspects of ADHD, as well as inform the families of the children I see

about what those data currently report, I'm all about accuracy of reporting.Period.


Bookwurm2, My references are


1) the US Surgeon General's Report on Mental Health ,Chapter 3 (Disorders of Infancy,Childhood &

Adolescence);

2) CASRC (Child & Adolescent Services Research Center) & Developmental Sciences Division of Chilren's Hospital & Health Center, San Diedo,2001;

3) CHADD " Facts Sheet #6 :Assessing Complementary and/or Controversial Intervetions";

4) Ingersoll,Barbara,and Goldstein,Sam. Attention Deficit Disorder and Learning Disabilities : Realities,Myths and Controversial Treatments. New York : Double Day,1993;

5) Barkley,Russell. ADHD and the Nature of Self-Control. New York: Guilford (1997);

6) Barkley, Russell. Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder:A Handbook for Diagnosis and Treatment (3rd.Ed), New York,Guilford,2005;

7) The Clinical Guidelines for the Diagnosis and Treatment of ADHD, by the following

American Academies of :

a) Child & Adolescent Psychiatry

b) Family Physicians

c) Pediatrics

There are countless studies on nutritional interventions.

The problem is that they have NOT shown longitudinal validity & reliability.

I'll be glad to spell that out for you when I have more time.

The bottom line for me as someone with severe ADHD Combined type and who's also a

Licensed (Child & Adolescent) Psychologist with a specialty in ADHD, is that I'm not about to tell a parent they shoud use

supplements to treat ADHD.


THEY DON'T WORK.

Does that mean I'm against them? Hell No.

It means that, for right here, right now, in this place and time,

THEY DON'T WORK (as a substitute for meds).

That's what I mean by "Clinical Treatment."

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

mctavish23 02-17-09 09:22 PM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
My main concern is that individuals with ADHD and their families understand the true

nature of the disorder, as well as what works and what doesn't.

I don't apologize for qouting the research, as it isn't personal.

Unless you're prepared to ask your child's pediatrician and /or your primary care

physician, if you can substitute amino's and multivitamins in place of medication for

ADHD, then those data are accurate.

If it changes then I'll change with it.

In the mean time, I will continue to post in response to what works ( as a clinical treatment/in lieu of meds) and what doesn't.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

FrazzleDazzle 02-17-09 09:55 PM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Okay. I think we got it. If I want to find out what science says, I go to PubMed, as I have full access to articles. If I want to find out what people say, I come here to the forums, like the OP did.

Because science has not proven something doesn't mean it's been disproven and that individuals cannot and have not benefited from it. It merely means it has not been proven. In other words, lack of proof does not mean lack of efficacy.

As the OP stated they wanted to know others' experience what they found helpful in nutritional support, not to continue the ongoing debate if science has proven nutrition as a valid treatment for ADHD or not. That really belongs in the debate or science section. Maybe the mods can sort out this thread in respect for other innattentives looking for nutritional support.

bookwurm2 02-17-09 10:02 PM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Robert,

Thanks again sharing your perspective with us and taking the time to put together the lengthy posts above. I am particularly interested in the section below that I have put in bold for emphasis.

"There are countless studies on nutritional interventions.
The problem is that they have NOT shown longitudinal validity & reliability.
I'll be glad to spell that out for you when I have more time."

The lack of "longitudinal validity & reliability" is something that you keep coming back to in this thread and in others. I believe it is really pivotal to what you are saying, so an understanding of what you mean by this is, in my opinion, crucial to understanding your post. So at some point, I hope you can take the time to share with us exactly what you mean by the words "longitudinal validity & reliability." I think I know what you mean, but I don't want to put words into your mouth. (If you mean, what I think you mean, I don't disagree with you on this statement, although the conclusion you draw from it is another matter.)

Thanks!

bookwurm2 02-17-09 10:13 PM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Robert, after citing lack of "longitudinal validity & reliability" wrote, "THEY DON'T WORK."

Frazzledazzle responded, "Because science has not proven something doesn't mean it's been disproven and that individuals cannot and have not benefited from it. It merely means it has not been proven. In other words, lack of proof does not mean lack of efficacy."

In my opinion Frazzledazzle nailed it.

Rather then saying "they don't work" I think it would be more accurate to say something along the following lines: "The medical profession requires a high level of support for a treatment before it can be used. Although some studies have been done that indicate that certain supplements may be helpful for treating ADHD, they do not rise to the level of proof required by the medical profession. This does not mean that they do not work, only that at this time, not enough research has been completed for the medical profession to conclude, to their satisfaction (using their high standards), that these supplements are both safe (i.e. no dangerous side effects) and effective (i.e. they work)."

mctavish23 02-17-09 10:33 PM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Longitudinal validity & reliability is the "gold standard" for all scientific research, and it's

at the heart of the science behind the disorder of ADHD.

Here's what that means ( in relation to ADHD research) :

Validity- producing the desired results or deduced from a well founded premise.

In other words,did we get it (operational definition) right ?

Probably the best way I've seen this put is : does it measure (exactly) what we say it

does?

Reliability- yielding dependable or compatible results in different clinical trials or

experiments

The best way I've heard this put is : Can other (unaffiliated) researchers, come along and

replicate the study exactly the same way and get the same ( or very similar) results?

Longitudinal - year after year,time after time.

The best example I can think of to illustrate this would be the DSM.

The "TR" inthe current DSM-IV TR stands for "Text Revision."

Simply put, every diagnosis in there is subjected to periodic review to see if the

diagnosis is still supported by on going (longitudinal) research.

If not, then the diagnosis gets "gonged."

The last time that happened that I can recall, was the diagnosis of Passive -Aggressive

Personality Disorder.

Having worked with some of them over the years, I was bummed to see that.

Disagreements aside, we're all in the "same boat" here.

Thanks for the feedback.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

bookwurm2 02-17-09 10:50 PM

Re: Supplements specifically for inattentive type?
 
Thanks, Robert. That's exactly what I thought. I agree. There are only a few small studies right now. In order for us to have the same confidence that we have in the stimulants, we'd need many more studies with much larger sample sizes.

Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen soon unless people or companies finance the costs of the studies that would be needed. They are very expensive and the supplements are not patentable. So there is not much incentive to invest the large sums of money that would be needed. There is some government and grant money and that is what is mostly financing the few, very small studies that we have. But that is not enough.

But when their is a lack of research, in my opinion we can't say, it doesn't work any more then we can say that it does work. The truth is, we are not sure (from a scientific standpoint) whether it works or not. It might work, or it might not. The only way to find out is to conduct the studies.


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