Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

My 5 year old daughter just got off the bus crying. A boy told her he didn't like her outfit. He says he hates her. She says there are 3 people who say they hate her. Then she says she hates them back, but I tell her she doesn't hate them, she hates what they said.

She is constantly trying to play with a girl who doesn't want to play with her. I try to tell her its because she likes to play quiet games.... and really my daughter kinda frightens her. Towards the end of last year they were kinda getting along, but now the girl just doesn't want to play with her. I think that's ok, not everyone likes everyone. I say she should try to find kids who like to play the same games as her instead. She won't have any of it, so I dropped it.

She says she is friends with everyone. But she is telling me at lunch she is playing with older kids. They are playing some kind of 'stealing' game where they take wood from each others' team.

She is sensitive. She is quick to anger. She can't tell me why she is mad. I told her to try smiling to see how she feels, to count, take deep breaths. She thought it was hilarious that she could make herself happy.

I posting because I know that it is normal to have poor emotional self regulation at her age, but how do you know it's past the tipping point? I mean is this where I get tapped gently on the back and told "oh don't worry" or is this where I decide to take her to the dr to save her from a bunch of unneeded pain??

She is like me, but she isn't like me. She has tantrums, but not like I did.

I am racked with worry here. I tried to make her ready for this. What do I do?

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

Aww, poor girl. Is there anyone at the school to talk to about bullying on the school bus or is it run privately. She shouldn't have to be dealing with that at her age.

My daughter always likes to play with either older kids who think she's fun and cute so they are nice to her or she likes younger kids who she can nurture and be herself around and they don't think she's weird. They just love her. I completely understand why your daugher is with the bigger kids.

For my daughter, quick to anger, was more like quick to frustration which then turns to anger. Try really hard to pinpoint the true emotion she is getting initially. This will help find a solution. Face charts are helpful with this. I can look one up if you can't find one. They have about 30 different expressions and the child learns to identify the expressions. It can help them learn to "read" social cues better as well as understand their own feelings.

What to do? Take some deep breaths. lol I've been where you are in grade 1 and 2 and I know how stressful it is.

This is a marathon for yourself and your daughter, not a sprint. It may get worse before it gets better. We had to leave conventional school because my daughter just couldn't function in the school system. I'm not sure where you are in BC, but there is a seminar in Surrey in Oct about dealing with the school system with an ADHD child. You need to know your rights, what to expect in terms of help at school with the emotional issues etc.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

I dont think you have to worry yet,if she talks about dying or killing herself or really negative things,starts refusing to go to school then I would think if it was my kid I'd take her for help.I think mothers are good at judging there kids behavior or at least hands on moms.My mom did and you sound like an excellent mom as well.I think its rough for any mom to see there baby get off the bus crying or see there kids upset or hurting.
Of the subject maybe its not so much anger but lo frustration tolerance that leads to the angry breaking point because she at the time doesnt know how to cope.I still have a lo frustration tolerance and poor emotional coping skills/regulation and if it wasnt for meds I would either be out of a job or worse maybe.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

Thank you. I am now looking at some face charts, going to decide on one. Looks like I need to study some too:eyebrow: I don't know if I'm the best person to teach her about emotions. :confused: I'm doing my best, but I'm not the best model.:(

Spoke with DD a bit more and realized that the boy's mother is my exercise instructor. So I spoke to her tonight at class to see what we could do about making it up to him. Told her DD lost part of DS's toy last week, rolled to the back with the big kids lol. But, mom was not happy..he's not supposed to bring his toys to school. So, she is going to talk to him. I just hope it makes it better and not worse.

I'm going to tell her to do 2 things. Be nice to him, and tell me if he's mean again.

I guess at this point I'm just going to assume she has some kind of deficiencies...at least for the purpose of helping her. I mean the girl IS a lot like me and I'm not NT. I'm going to keep plugging away until/unless there comes a day where its apparent I need outside help.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

OMG I hope it never gets to that point! That's the exact thing I'm trying to avoid. Yes, I would agree there is a low frustration tolerance. And for me too (and the emotional coping bit)..

Part of me wonders if she may be bipolar as we are. I read somewhere about bipolar kids running into things to challenge it...she does that. Sometimes if I tell her something she doesn't like, No or something like it..she will come running at me to head butt me in the stomach.

When the kids refuse to clean up, I tell them if I clean I'm packing it up. (They will get it back, but they have to earn it) Instead of cleaning it, she will use every ounce of her being to stop me from taking away the toys. She either thinks this is a better way to deal with things, or she doesn't think. It never works btw.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

There´s nothing worse than your child hurting and experiencing this kind of stuff, it really hurts and you would do anything to avoid them going through those types of experiences.

Could you talk to her teachers to find out is there is a specific problem and to keep an eye on her etc (but not in an obvious way). Ask if they think she has problem socially?

It could be something that she will overcome this as she matures, as kids learn how to interact and socialise and not be so mean to each other.

My friend´s daughter was like this at school, came across as overbearing and bossy. My own daughter didn´t even want to play with her which was embarrassing.

She 17 now and things go better when she was about 8, although this is still a "leader".

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

You don't have to wait until some arbitrary tipping point; don't wait for things to get worse. ADHD children tend to develop emotional maturity later than NT children but they are normally in class with their age-mates; and if your dd has additional problems with social reciprocity and pragmatics (which may not be clear at this age) then it makes things that much more difficult.

Privately you could try play therapy and/or a speech language pathologist that specializes in social skills.

Schoolwise you can access special education services; special education services also include things like OT and ST, not just academic support. My ds is in third grade now (K, which was pre-diagnosis, was horrible) and 85% of his IEP is social skills support; he meets with the school psychologist (LSSP) in her office and she also spends time in his class to observe and help facilitate appropriate social interaction. When we began preparing ds' IEP I realized how much social skills can impact his ability to function in a school environment.

Though you don't have to have private evaluations supporting the need for services you are requesting, it tends to smooth the way. We had an evaluation done at a children's hospital clinic with a developmental-behavioral pediatrician, a speech language pathologist, a psychologist, and a social worker when ds was in first grade which covered a lot of what the school's (eventual) comprehensive evaluation covered.

To get the process going with the school you'll need to submit a letter of request and consent to the school (probably to the principle and resource teacher) for a comprehensive evaluation (take note of all contact with the school regarding this as it will help you ensure they keep to the legal deadlines. My ds was initially labled OHI under IDEA (other health impaired) but after the comprehensive eval was completed he qualified as Autistic under IDEA (chiefly due to his social skills deficits; this is supported by our private eval), the latter label makes him eligible for additional services; you have to give your written consent to using those labels.

I recommended getting a copy of "Wrightslaw: From Emotions to Advocacy", the information from the book can be found on their website as well; "Wrightslaw: Special Education Law, 2nd Edition". All About IEPs is also a good book to read at the beginning of the processes. The first book is essentially a step-by-step help guide to dealing with the school and organizing your dc's records; it also has letter samples for things like requesting an evaluation. You can also go to your states dept of ed site and find their "procedural protections" guide for parents regarding special education law.

Under IDEA/IEP, if your child has a disability that adversely affects educational performance, your child is entitled to an education that is designed to meet the child's unique needs and from which your child receives educational benefit.


A 504 (from section 504 of the American's with Disabilities Act) is helping your child get the same education that everyone else is getting--more for a student that needs accommodations to help them learn (like sitting next to the teacher) or for behavior, and that they are not punished for things that they cannot control due to the ADHD (like needing to work standing up or not sit inside a group).


[A IEP or 504 is not an escalation or punishment for the teacher/school. It's more about getting all appropriate parties involved and on the same page. The student, parent/legal guardian, teachers, principals, Pupil Services administrators, support staff (i.e. nurse, counselor, psychologist, language/speech pathologist) as well as the student's physician or therapist may be involved in the placement process including the 504 meeting.]


State Parent Training and Information Center - Education Resource ...

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

Goodness, I remember girls always being violent back then cause they liked a boy. I got walloped a few times.

I would also say it is easier to be coy 'You look like you are in a pickle' with questioning than to be direct like 'How are you feeling.' Eliciting conversation is a lot easier than expecting delineation of emotions from a child. Although she is still finding her way unless something harmful comes up I wouldn't worry to much. It is hard to understand why not everyone likes me. Trial and error the good old fashioned way.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

Told her this morning she doesn't have to be his friend, but to be polite. I saw her briefly at the school, she seemed happy, asked how the bus ride went, she said they didn't talk and that's fine with me.

I talked to the Strong Start playgroup facilitator (she's an early childhood educator, and specializes in special needs children and knows her) and told her what happened. She suggested I talk to her teacher and get her a buddy. She said it last week but I wasn't paying attention lol when I said she was playing with older kids.

She said I could get her paired up with an older kid to be with during breaks. I'm thinking it might be worth looking into.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

So she was sent home with a paper letting parents know how kids are doing each week. From low to high: red/yellow/green/blue. She said this is the first time she has had a yellow, every other day she has been in the green basket.

It says "....needed numerous reminders to not call out and keep hand to self."

She says that she can't help it. :( This might explain a lot of her social problems. Suggestions??

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

is she even diagnosed w anything?Rereading this this thread I see I didnt read into it right,my bad if I over stepped my advice or boundaries.Ahhh the Sunday box clean it up are you will lose it for a week.Funny how I had to lose it when it would of been easier to put it away to begin w DOH.I remember dad trying to take my he man figures and it be like the fox and the grapes Id be trying to grab it back acting all ornery and grabbing left and right while he tried to hold onto it and push me off him.After awhile it they didnt say or do anything I went to bed,left it out and next morning Goodbye it was gone DOH.I have to learn the hard way on everything it seems.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

Can you tell her when shes feeling antsy or the urge to sit on her hands,think before she speaks there are others in the classroom toomaybe the teacher could give her some kind of cue like a hand signal when she starts talking out of lineso she knows but it doesnt create a frucas and set her off.I know I dont have kids and I know if I ever do Im gonna have to learn to talk to them on there level and not be adultlike because that goes in one ear an out the other w kids at least it did for me when folks were like do this or ya gotta do that and Id be thinking I aint doing jack crap.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

Yes, read my post above:).

It's detrimental to simply punish an ADHD child for speaking out of turn and being handsy. What the teacher needs is a more appropriate (written) plan that includes specific verbal and/or visual cues to get your dd's attention and remind her of more appropriate behavior.

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

I have such a hard time pinpointing exactly what I'm trying to say, I can't just get to it. I always have hard time stating my intentions. Sorry for beating around it, I will try to be more clear and get to the heart of it.

I have not talked to anyone about her professionally. I have not asked for an assessment. She is not diagnosed. I am hoping it is in my head and she is developing within a normal range. I am hoping I just need some strategies to teach her these milestones. I am hoping I can help her without outside help. I am scared to go down that road.

I am hoping if you think what I describe of her warrants an assessment you will say so. I am scared to tell her teacher about me and that it will paint an impression of my child. I am scared I am in denial. I am scared I am being anxious over nothing.

*sigh*

Re: Where's the line between overreacting and being vigilant?
 

Imo...overteacting is she. You gey to say "f**k off! Being vigilantly just means your tight and their wrong and you still get to say f**k off. ;)