Another new, frustrated mother

[eksulli]

I am about at the end of my rope with my middle (5 years old, Kiya, she will be 6 in June) daughter.
We've recently seen our family physician and are current on a peds waiting list (could be up to a year wait) to even have the testing done.
Basically we went into the doctors office, voiced our concerns, frustrations and thoughts and she referred us to the "best fit" with the shortest waiting list. The other semi-local pediatrician had a two year waiting list.

So we aren't even entirely certain she is ADD/ADHD I read through some of the rules and I think it should be OK for me to cruise the boards and get advice/input/information, if not feel free to let me know.

We have spent countless hours researching this on the internet trying to figure out what to do and how to do it.
She is incredibly frustrating and let's face it that frustration leads to resent, resent leads to guilt.

I could just sit and bawl because I see my child struggling with something she cannot control and there's not a damn thing (pardon my french..lol) I can do to help her, except be angry and frustrated because I can't help her and no one can change it.

She is quite bright, but it's beginning to affect her schooling. She doesn't read like a normal child, instead she memorizes the little stories and repeats them back when asked to read them. When shown a list of the words in the book she knows maybe 2. She isn't LEARNING the sight words that are the foundation for reading. She's regurgitating information.

She frequently acts inappropriately, she is in trouble for "being too loud", "disobeying (repeatedly!!) the rules", "running in the halls", etc, etc, etc. Every other week, just about, she is bringing home a slip saying she's been at it again.

She is constantly upbeat, and has a real vest for life, BUT, she is exhausting.
It is her NOT our almost 2 year old that scribbles on the walls, or throws all the sand out of the sandbox.

When you ask her WHY she would do something she clearly knows is naughty, "I don't know".

ALWAYS... I don't know!
ALWAYS!

You yell at her, reprimand her, offer time outs, toy/TV/privilege removal, and 5 minutes later she is back to acting out, or being naughty as if you never disciplined her. When you talk to her about it, she doesn't know why.
It's like every minute is a fresh start, a new day, she honest to God cannot control it.

Her teacher even said, "Kiya has a good heart, and isn't naughty on purpose (which is good), but she just cannot control her mind or her body."

Another thing about Kiya is that there is no logical train of thought. I understand she's very young but even with my now almost 8 year old you could sort of track with her when she would spit out something random.
Kiya just pulls thought after thought after thought out as if they just occur to her right that second, not linked, just a barrage of random thoughts. Leaving you whirling.

Maybe we need to do MORE rewarding, but I hate the thought of bribing my child to behave.
I hate to see people going, "If you stop crying, and walk with me, I will give you chocolate at the car." UGH!
I guess maybe I'm old fashioned and was raised where you did what you were told because you were told to do it.
I don't mind rewarding a good dinner with a bowl of ice cream, or extra chores with a dollar.
I just don't know where you draw the line, and how you make things fair.
I mean maybe Kiya will need EXTRA rewarding, but how do I make sure it's a fair system for the other kids?

I guess I'm looking for thoughts, experiences and ideas.
I haven't spoken with many of friends or family about what's going yet, I want to have a direction in my head and a sturdy idea of what's best for my child before I get more advice, like the advice my mother gave me, which was that I just needed to hug Kiya more.

Now I'll give her that it may be true, I may need to hug Kiya more (we've been so frustrated for soooo long that it gets hard to deal with Kiya), but hugging her isn't going to help her gain control of herself.

I guess that's all for now. I'm certain there is more I want to say. But this is getting quite lengthy
Thanks for reading. I feel better just having it all out there.

[mommytriz]

It's so strange how I found this sight and found so many other parents raising my daughter too !!!!!! Your girl sounds like mine almost to a T. She was finally dx at 7. Apparently it was a pretty clear cut case. lol Fortunately for my daughter a really firmly set behaviour system with chips as a reward that she can trade in for things got her really excited about earning chips( I made them out of clear bingo markers and she helped me put fun smiley face stickers on them. I know it is frustrating to tell a child something like not scratching her name in her dresser and them 10 minutes later she's scratching her name in your bannister railing. She just doesn't think a step ahead.

As far as her reading goes. That is also my daughter. She just memorized the words. The spec. ed teacher called her a whole word learner, which is actually a style of teaching reading used years ago. I didn't buy it and kept looking for answers. Google binocular dysfunction and oculomotor dysfunction and you can read about why in OUR case my daughter struggles to read. It's definitely something to rule out in your child.

Originally Posted by eksulli

When you ask her WHY she would do something she clearly knows is naughty, "I don't know".

ALWAYS... I don't know!
ALWAYS!

You yell at her, reprimand her, offer time outs, toy/TV/privilege removal, and 5 minutes later she is back to acting out, or being naughty as if you never disciplined her. When you talk to her about it, she doesn't know why.
It's like every minute is a fresh start, a new day, she honest to God cannot control it.

Her teacher even said, "Kiya has a good heart, and isn't naughty on purpose (which is good), but she just cannot control her mind or her body."

Another thing about Kiya is that there is no logical train of thought. I understand she's very young but even with my now almost 8 year old you could sort of track with her when she would spit out something random.
Kiya just pulls thought after thought after thought out as if they just occur to her right that second, not linked, just a barrage of random thoughts. Leaving you whirling.

Maybe we need to do MORE rewarding, but I hate the thought of bribing my child to behave.
I hate to see people going, "If you stop crying, and walk with me, I will give you chocolate at the car." UGH!
I guess maybe I'm old fashioned and was raised where you did what you were told because you were told to do it.
I don't mind rewarding a good dinner with a bowl of ice cream, or extra chores with a dollar.
I just don't know where you draw the line, and how you make things fair.
I mean maybe Kiya will need EXTRA rewarding, but how do I make sure it's a fair system for the other kids?

I guess I'm looking for thoughts, experiences and ideas.
I haven't spoken with many of friends or family about what's going yet, I want to have a direction in my head and a sturdy idea of what's best for my child before I get more advice, like the advice my mother gave me, which was that I just needed to hug Kiya more.

Now I'll give her that it may be true, I may need to hug Kiya more (we've been so frustrated for soooo long that it gets hard to deal with Kiya), but hugging her isn't going to help her gain control of herself.

I guess that's all for now. I'm certain there is more I want to say. But this is getting quite lengthy
Thanks for reading. I feel better just having it all out there.

At this point I'll just tell one of the things I make sure my daughter gets. Positives. She get so much negative feedback throughout her day that I make sure I find the positives in her day and acknowledge them. She is an amazing little girl and sometimes the frustrating things she does overshadows that. Remember that if she is ADHD then she is operating at an age that could be years younger than her actual age and parent as though she IS that age. My daughter's behaviour at almost 8 is sometimes indistinguishable or worse than her 6 year old brother.

[eksulli]

Originally Posted by mommytriz

She is an amazing little girl and sometimes the frustrating things she does overshadows that. Remember that if she is ADHD then she is operating at an age that could be years younger than her actual age and parent as though she IS that age. My daughter's behaviour at almost 8 is sometimes indistinguishable or worse than her 6 year old brother.

NAILED IT!

She is AMAZING, I know she is an amazing little girl, bright and positive, and I just want her to shine. At this point I feel horrible because I feel like I'm failing her and I'm angry and frustrated. I know it's not her fault, but it's like as soon as she starts her jabbering I shut down.

I have to figure out how to make myself push past that and get to the heart of the problem so I can help fix it.

[Dizfriz]

Welcome aboard.

One of he best things you can do is to learn as much about ADHD as you can. A good place to start is here. http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60130

The articles and video links listed will give you a good basic grounding on the disorder.

You mentioned a year wait. There are other options. Here are several good places you can go to get an assessment and help.

Sacred Heart Hospital (Allentown)
Pediatric Services
Program Notes: Serves children.

Good Shepherd Rehabilitation Hospital (Allentown)
Pediatric Program
Program Notes: Serves children.

Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
Center for Management of ADHD
Program Notes: Serves children and adolescents.

Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh
Child Development Unit
Program Notes: Serves children.

Here is the listing where you can click to the sites to get more information.

Teaching hospitals like this are some of the best places you can go to. There are likely others and these may be able to give some recommendations if they are not practical for you.

Good luck and again, welcome.

Dizfriz

[eksulli]

Originally Posted by Dizfriz

Welcome aboard.

One of he best things you can do is to learn as much about ADHD as you can. A good place to start is here. http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60130

The articles and video links listed will give you a good basic grounding on the disorder.

You mentioned a year wait. There are other options. Here are several good places you can go to get an assessment and help.

Sacred Heart Hospital (Allentown)
Pediatric Services
Program Notes: Serves children.

Good Shepherd Rehabilitation Hospital (Allentown)
Pediatric Program
Program Notes: Serves children.

Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
Center for Management of ADHD
Program Notes: Serves children and adolescents.

Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh
Child Development Unit
Program Notes: Serves children.

Here is the listing where you can click to the sites to get more information.

Teaching hospitals like this are some of the best places you can go to. There are likely others and these may be able to give some recommendations if they are not practical for you.

Good luck and again, welcome.

Dizfriz

WOW! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I will look into them immediately!

We are on the waiting list with a pediatrician that is located in Williamsport PA because all of our local doctors like to push medication and not try to "treat" the problem, and I told our family physician that while I was more than willing to medicate, I didn't want it to be our first and ONLY mode of treatment so she referred us further out to a guy who I guess treats the child, works with the family on therapy methods and behavior mods.

Thank you again for the in-state options!

[Dizfriz]

eksulli

This is the site where I got the information: http://www.help4adhd.org/en/treatment/prof/centers#pa

You can click through to the clinics there.

I forgot to include it in my post.

Dizfriz

[mommytriz]

I was going to address your point about different standards/ rewards systems for other kids and fairness. In our house I have a very responsible typical 11 year old who doesn't need to be reminded to put socks on 20 times. She still gets reward chips, I just expect more to earn them, like getting her homework done before we have to run out to ballet or keeping her desk tidy. Pick something that your other child finds a bit challenging. She is very in the loop on her sisters dx and is amazing at encouraging her. For my younger son it is tougher because he also doesn't need to be told 20 times to get dressed or put his toys away 10 times, but he is emotionally at a similar level and sees that she gets a chip for getting dressed so he thinks he should too. So he does, BUT since his chips tend to add up much faster, his payment is higher for things. She will pay 5 chips for a show, he will pay 8 to play a video game. Luckily only my oldest has caught this so far and she is really good about keeping secrets...like the easter bunny and the toothfairy

[clarej]

Hi
I can see that you are struggling. As parents we love our children, want to support them to be the best they can be - but when a child doesn't fit the mould it takes so much searching for answers and assistance in developing solutions!!

My son is now 13 (a twin). When I read you post I could relate to the frustration and concern that I saw reflected by you.

My advice to you (having worked incredibly hard to educate myself; push for answers through the medical and school system; work tirelessly as a team player in all aspects of my son's life), is to first and foremost, listen to your gut. If something is not right, you know it - but at the same time always be open to professional advice - just don't take it as gospel.
Learning how to parent this kind of child is tough - because honestly none of the parenting books out there work for a child that is exhibiting the kind of daily issues that you describe. I would highly recommend Ross Greene's book: The Explosive Child as a starting point. Green is highly respected by professionals and parents. It was such a relief to finally have someone describe (what you have described of Kiyra) what we were dealing with on a daily basis.

Testing is tough, but necessary - because sometimes the professionals get it wrong; are not that competent; have conflicting advice etc - then again you may sail through the whole process without complication. In our case I had to navigate some fairly broken systems (underfunded public school system; underfunded medical system; unsupportive spouse - who is now supportive - but his attitude had been "he's just a normal kid - it's you who isn't managing him properly" etc). I think that those labels are really important because as you go through the school system, having a label (learning disability; dyslexia; ADD etc) helps you get the support you need for your child - without the special accommodations needed, your child will suffer in the school system, because they will have often negative labels plastered onto them, because the reality is, these kids don't fit the normal mould, and cannot function in a way that is expected of "normal" students.

To close, I should mention that we finally took my son out of the public school system. He is in a Montessori school where he is thriving (in the unaccommodating public school system he had been called the class dummy. He is now regularly getting 90% on his tests). We have also learned how to manage his behaviour - by far the most effective method we have found is to praise good behaviour with encouragement and humour; ignore the less positive behaviour and when needed, time out (which for him often meant leaving the scene. We abandoned the "time out" in his room, as that would get him so worked up, he would start tearing his room apart at age 4 and generally escalate his behaviour). He is one of the most polite, empathetic, interesting kids around - I know I'm his mom, and am saying that - but we hear that from other people all the time.

[eksulli]

Originally Posted by clarej

I would highly recommend Ross Greene's book: The Explosive Child as a starting point. Green is highly respected by professionals and parents. It was such a relief to finally have someone describe (what you have described of Kiyra) what we were dealing with on a daily basis.

That what we've always said about Kiya... she's our "powder keg".

She's out "shotgun blast".

The title of that book pretty much describes her, I will definitely look into it!
Thanks

I am getting ready for parent teacher conferences, and I am DREADING them. I don't care what child it's for, I hate conferences. Wish me luck!

[Massari]

If you are at the end of the rope than make it longer. There is no end of the rope. Not when it comes to your children.

[Massari]

"not a damn thing (pardon my french..lol)"

And you have not spoken a word in french. Labeling course language as "french" is impolite to french speakers on this forum.

[eksulli]

Originally Posted by Massari

"not a damn thing (pardon my french..lol)"

And you have not spoken a word in french. Labeling course language as "french" is impolite to french speakers on this forum.

Sorry I wasn't trying to be rude.
It's a very common saying where I'm from. I was attempting to sugar coat the swear since I wasn't trying to be offensive or just outright curse merely showing how this situation affects me.

[eksulli]

I love this rewards system idea.

I know it's hard for my oldest, who is exceptionally bright, because she is often the most left out. With the other being so young and Kiya being so frustrating and F(the oldest) being so quiet and self entertaining, we've gotten into a bad habit of focusing on the wrong things.
I am starting to believe that while Kiy needs help, we need the behavior modification. LOLOL.

Our kids are 7 (8 in August), Kiya 5 (6 in June), almost 2 (in July) and 4th GIRL due August 13

We've got a house full of girls.

[eksulli]

Also Massari I would edit the post and remove what offended you so, but I cannot as it seems it is to old.
Maybe the mods could edit it?

[zette93]

Most likely you will need multiple professionals to help your child, and you can start putting these in place before you have the full diagnosis. I would suggest getting evaluations from an OT who is trained in sensory integration, and a speech and language therapist for pragmatic speech issues (can she participate in a coherent conversation?). You can bring the results with you when you finally get in to see the specialist. You can also go ahead and ask the school (in writing) to start the IEP process and do a multi-factor evaluation.

Two books I'd recommend:

Parenting Children with ADHD: 10 Lessons That Medicine Cannot Teach [Kindle Edition]
Vincent J. Monastra (Author)

Parenting Your Asperger Child: Individualized Solutions for Teaching Your Child Practical Skills [Kindle Edition]

The first is pro- medicine, but goes into depth with all the things you should do in addition to meds. The second has really good descriptions of different subtypes of Aspergers, and would help you recognize whether your daughter might have some AS traits.