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Old 02-24-18, 12:06 AM
O’shea86 O’shea86 is offline
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ADD Linked With RMD

Hello,
I am curious if anyone out there has a diagnosis of ADD and RMD (Rythmic Movement Disorder). Also known as head banging, head rolling, etc...
I have been told RMD is an increase in brain activity which causes arms and legs to be more active at night and I’ve read that in a lot of ADD studies, many people struggle to fall sleep or stay asleep. I have RMD and I strongly feel that I have ADD based on my symptoms. Anyone with RMD out there who can shed some light on the matter? Thank you.
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Old 02-24-18, 02:22 AM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

Quote:
Quote:
Treatment of sleep apnea via a continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) device has shown dramatic improvement in apnea and nearly complete resolution of RMD symptoms.[7]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyth...ement_disorder
I do not know?

I wonder if “a continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) device” helps lessen AD(H)D symptoms?

If not, maybe they are not?

Just guessing?

Is AD(H)D linked to sleep apnea?





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Old 02-24-18, 02:48 AM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

I would ask your doctor to try a continuous positive airway device, and see if that helps lessen the severity of RMD?

I might ask my doctor if i can try a continuous positive airway device, and see if that helps lessen the severity of ADD?

Quote:
Obstructive Sleep Apnea Mimics Attention Deficit Disorder.

Abstract
Attention deficit and hyperactivity are known possible symptoms or correlates of obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). However, these associations may be missed in children, because children often fail to report excessive daytime sleepiness, and attention deficit disorder (ADD) and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are common primary diagnoses in themselves. We report on a 17-year-old, slender, non-snoring male who presented to his pediatrician with a prolonged history of four complaints: inattention, fidgeting, frequent sinusitis, and somnolence. He was diagnosed with ADHD, while the somnolence, which often abated somewhat upon use of antibiotics for sinusitis, was attributed to the sinus infections. A later sleep study revealed OSA, and thorough additional testing proved that the original ADHD diagnosis was in error. All four conditions were allayed with proper use of a continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) machine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23529886




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Old 02-24-18, 03:29 AM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

Quote:
Quote:
It is concluded ADHD in childhood is associated with abnormal parasympathetic mechanisms involved in emotion regulation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21394506


Quote:
Quote:
“there is a parasympathetic dominance during NREM.[3]”

Quote:
Stage 1 – occurs mostly in the beginning of sleep, with slow eye movement. This state is sometimes referred to as relaxed wakefulness.[7] Alpha waves disappear and the theta wave appears. People aroused from this stage often believe that they have been fully awake. During the transition into stage-1 sleep, it is common to experience hypnic jerks.[8]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-r...movement_sleep


Quote:
Quote:
According to the American Academy of Sleep Medicine there is a wide range of potential causes, including anxiety, caffeine, stress and strenuous activities in the evening. However, most hypnic jerks occur essentially at random in healthy people.[5]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnic_jerk
Maybe AD(H)D and RMD are linked to anxiety?

I do not know?

I wonder if continuous positive airway device helps lessen severity of anxiety?




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Old 02-24-18, 03:44 AM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by O’shea86 View Post
Hello,
I am curious if anyone out there has a diagnosis of ADD and RMD (Rythmic Movement Disorder). Also known as head banging, head rolling, etc...
I have been told RMD is an increase in brain activity which causes arms and legs to be more active at night and I’ve read that in a lot of ADD studies, many people struggle to fall sleep or stay asleep. I have RMD and I strongly feel that I have ADD based on my symptoms. Anyone with RMD out there who can shed some light on the matter? Thank you.
Do you suffer from sleep apnea aswell?


Quote:
Quote:
RMD occurs in both males and females, often during early childhood with symptoms diminishing with age. Many sufferers also have other sleep related disorders, like sleep apnea.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyth...ement_disorder



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Old 02-24-18, 04:45 AM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by O’shea86 View Post
Hello,
I am curious if anyone out there has a diagnosis of ADD and RMD (Rythmic Movement Disorder). Also known as head banging, head rolling, etc...
I have been told RMD is an increase in brain activity which causes arms and legs to be more active at night and I’ve read that in a lot of ADD studies, many people struggle to fall sleep or stay asleep. I have RMD and I strongly feel that I have ADD based on my symptoms. Anyone with RMD out there who can shed some light on the matter? Thank you.
Found this:

Quote:
RHYTHMIC MOVEMENT DISORDER
Rhythmic Movement Disorder (RMD) primarily occurs in young children and is characterized by head banging or body rocking prior to sleep onset and sometimes during sleep itself. Most children outgrow the disorder. It is not truly considered a disorder unless sleep-related injury is present (which is uncommon), or daytime consequences related to reduced sleep quality are present (ICSD-2). The disorder often disappears as children age.14

ADHD Symptoms in Rhythmic Movement Disorder
Dyken et al were the first to note the association between ADHD and RMD. They reported that 3 of 7 children, aged 1–12 years, with video-polysomnographically documented RMD had attention deficit disorder (ADD) by past medical history.15 No attempt was made to confirm the ADD diagnosis, and the observation went without further comment. Stepanova et al confirmed these results: ADHD was present in 6 of 10 children with RMD who were formally assessed for the presence of ADHD symptoms.16 The authors found the inattentive subtype in 4 of the 6 children with ADHD and the combined inattentive and hyperactive type in 2 of the 6 children with ADHD. The authors suggest that immaturity of premotor and striatal circuits may be involved in both RMD and ADHD, or that RMD may be yet another sleep disorder potentially causing symptoms of ADHD. The subjects in this study were beyond the age range at which RMD usually disappears (average age in this study 14.7 years) and one of the subjects was an adult, aged 24 years.16

Rhythmic Movement Disorder in ADHD
Taken from the opposite perspective, 150 children and adolescents with various psychiatric problems were compared to a normal control group of 309 subjects from the general population. Fourteen of the psychiatric patients had ADD, and 6 of these 14 had head banging, compared to none in the control group.17 This result will obviously have to be verified in a larger study.

Summary: ADHD seems to be more common in RMD and, in turn, RMD seems to be more common in ADHD. The sample sizes tested are small, and results need to be confirmed in larger series. Whether sleep disruption from RMD leads to symptoms of ADHD, or whether a program for increased motor activity has a common diathesis in both RMD and ADHD bears further investigation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2603539/
Actually the whole article was interesting.
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Old 02-24-18, 02:37 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

Quote:
[p 26] Also, as summarized earlier, the results of recent studies do indeed indicate that ADHD may improve with treatment of OSA [Obstructive Sleep Apnea].61,68,72
Quote:
[p 27] Children usually outgrow DOA [Disorders of Partial Arousal] but DOA may recur in adulthood under conditions of emotional or physical stress.73–82
(See quotes in article link posted by SarahSweets)

Interestingly, I had my tonsils removed due to chronic tonsillitis when I was young.

I wonder if treating sleep disorders and/or anxiety disorders in early life could reduce the number of diagnoses of AD(H)D, or misdiagnosis of ADHD?

I also wonder how many disorders that mimic ADHD, would meet the diagnositic criteria for AD(H)D?

Thank you for posting this information, at the least the information is a great example of how our brains develop from the lower midbrain and up. (Ground up/Bottom up) And how different types of autonomic distresses, may influence the ground up emergence of AD(H)D.

A lot of these questions can begin to be addressed, by treating certain sleeping disorders.

Note that certain types of distresses may prolong some people from outgrowing these disorders, in early childhood.

In other words, reducing certain types of distresses may help people outgrow certain disorders.

Maybe treating anxiety and depression may help some people outgrow AD(H)D, and maybe if anxiety and depression are not treated makes it less likely to outgrow ADHD?






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Last edited by mildadhd; 02-24-18 at 02:52 PM..
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Old 02-24-18, 03:06 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

This information could help explain the link between foods that cause inflammation and ADHD, often mentioned by SB_UK.

This information could help explain the link between bottom up autonomic dysfunction/dysregulation and ADHD, often mentioned by Kunga Kanga Dorji.

This information could help explain the link between emotional pain/external environmental emotional distresses and ADHD, often mentioned by Dr. Mate.

I am definitely going to ask my Doctor if I can try a Continuous Positive Airway Device, (aswell as treatment for bottom up anxiety and bottom up depression)(and eat better)






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  #9  
Old 02-24-18, 03:21 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

Huh. I actually think I had this as a kid (I rocked myself to sleep). I never even considered it to be abnormal... how odd.
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Old 02-24-18, 03:33 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

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Originally Posted by TygerSan View Post
Huh. I actually think I had this as a kid (I rocked myself to sleep). I never even considered it to be abnormal... how odd.
I move my feet around in the sheets. My husband calls me a cricket.
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Old 02-24-18, 03:47 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I move my feet around in the sheets. My husband calls me a cricket.
Sheets tucked in are torture.

I wiggle my toes constantly and rotate my ankles/feet around and around.

I cannot get much sleep with another person very well.

I used to have a crush on a member here before she got married, partly because she wrote she had to sleep alone.

(Sorry to post so much)



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Old 02-24-18, 03:35 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by TygerSan View Post
Huh. I actually think I had this as a kid (I rocked myself to sleep). I never even considered it to be abnormal... how odd.
Like all ADHD traits, it is probably normal in early childhood to a certain degree?

I used to slide my arm back and forth, back and forth against the wall, I found the noise soothing, (same when my mom vacuumed back and forth, back and forth).

I also found it comforting lay a certain way to put my shoulder in a certain place, with my hand/arm stuck straight up in the air until I fell asleep. (I never did remembered my arm/hand falling down)(not sure how long it was actually up there after I fell asleep?)(when I was young I wondered/guessed if it had something to do with more blood flow to my brain)

In both examples, moving against the wall and fixed not moving, my arm/hand was “standing” up?





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Old 02-24-18, 07:27 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

I have a diagnosis of ADD and periodic limb movement disorder--dont know if that is the same thing or not
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Old 02-24-18, 09:11 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

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Originally Posted by allesandro1 View Post
I have a diagnosis of ADD and periodic limb movement disorder--dont know if that is the same thing or not
Quote:
RESTLESS LEGS SYNDROME AND PERIODIC LIMB MOVEMENTS IN SLEEP (RLS/PLMS)
Restless legs syndrome (RLS) is a common sensorimotor disorder characterized by an irresistible urge to move the legs, which is often accompanied by uncomfortable sensations in the legs or, less frequently, other body parts. These sensations are worse at rest, relieved by movement, and worse in the evening or night and at rest. In RLS, patients frequently experience insomnia from the leg discomfort and the need to move around. The diagnosis of RLS is based on the revised RLS criteria developed by the International Restless Legs Syndrome Study Group (IRLSSG).23 Although RLS is traditionally considered a disorder of middle to older age, several case series show that it may occur in childhood.24 In addition, one large survey of 10,523 families in Britain and the United States showed that clinically significant RLS occurs in 0.5% of children and 1% of adolescents.25 However, children may report RLS symptoms differently than adults, in part because of their limited ability to describe RLS sensations. Moreover, the clinical presentation of RLS may differ in children. Considering these particularities, the IRLSSG has proposed a set of criteria specific for childhood.23

Patients with RLS also frequently have a related sleep disorder called periodic limb movements in sleep (PLMS). PLMS are defined as movements that last 0.5–10 seconds and recur every 5 to 90 seconds in a series of ≥ 4.26 They more commonly affect the legs, although the arms may be involved as well. Typical movements consist of simultaneous flexions of the hips, knees, and ankles. Eighty percent of adult patients with RLS have PLMS.23 PLMS have been reported in children with RLS although their prevalence in children has not been adequately studied.23 In RLS, the role of PLMS in the production of insomnia or daytime symptoms of fatigue is controversial. However, periodic leg movements sometimes occur in wakefulness (PLMW) in RLS and may contribute to the insomnia.23

In last decade, there has been growing research in sleep disruption associated with ADHD.6 It has been correctly pointed out that sleep disturbances may (1) mimic ADHD symptoms in the evening or (2) be associated with ADHD symptoms.27,28 In both cases, the appropriate treatment of sleep disturbances may significantly improve diurnal ADHD symptoms.

Given the relationship between RLS and sleep fragmentation, some clinicians started to look for a potential association between ADHD and RLS symptoms. Since then, interest in the link between ADHD and RLS has progressively grown. In a survey of the literature completed in 2005, Cortese et al29 reviewed available evidence on the relationship between RLS and ADHD.29–35 In addition, new studies have emerged since then.36–38

In light of these considerations, the aims of this section are (1) to critically review evidence on the relationship between ADHD and RLS; (2) to examine the potential mechanisms underlying this relationship; and (3) to present some future directions for the research in this area.
From the same article I shared.
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Old 02-24-18, 09:16 PM
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Re: ADD Linked With RMD

I didn't realize restless legs at bedtime were unusual until my hubs complained
about them. I don't think he minded the legs so much as that I would toss and
turn my whole body until I finally fell asleep.
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