my ADD boyfriend and non-ADD me

[jamoe]

I need help deciding on what is fair for my boyfriend and I and our relationship. He has ADD and I do not, and he takes adderall for the ADD. We love one another very much but right now I am very troubled because I don't know if his current behaviors are a result of ADD, depression, anxiety, wanting to be dependent upon me or a mix of these factors. I will give you a history up to now because maybe you will understand something I don't about my boyfriend.

He tells me he has always been an anxious person and that the adderall only heightens his anxiety, so for years he has felt like he chooses between being productive and unhappy or being unproductive and happier. When I first started dating him two years and three months ago he was doing very well in college and then decided he had enough of ther adderall and quit taking it altogether. His grades suffered and as a result so did his self esteem. I tried to help him and advised he see a psychologist, who gave him anti-anxiety medication that was supposed to be taken in low doses and without alcohol. When my boyfriend found out his university financial aid might be rejected because of his grades, he took all of the medication at one time and an enormous amount of alcohol. Needless to say, that was upsetting for me just as it was upsetting for him.

After that we decided okay, no anti-anxiety medicine and no alcohol. The no alcohol part worked for a few months. We moved in together after dating six months at the summer I graduated from the university. He started taking his adderall again, got the financial aid worked out, and went back to school. He started drinking again but it was not very heavily. I didn't feel comfortable with it but when I would ask him about it he told me that it was to take the edge off of the adderall so he could relax with me when I would come home from work.

He struggled a bit with school for about six months but was doing okay. His major of psychology wasn't satisfying him so he focused on taking other classes he did enjoy, but then these classes weren't so important anymore after a while. He became disillusioned with the area we live in and said it was made for rich people and there were no people he could be friends with here because they were all rich kids who didn't really care about anything. He had a number of friends when I met him but as people moved away or situations changed he made no effort to find new friends. At this point he only had a very small number of friends where we lived. He told me he was depressed again and decided maybe the university education wasn't for him at all and decided to quit.

At first I was worried because how would he pay rent and pay for our other needs? I could cover all of my expenses and split things like rent and grocceries with him but I couldn't cover both of our expenses. He decided to live off of student loans for a time and then get a job. But living off of student loans ultimately made things worse because he knew he was increasing his debt. A few months ago he decided to stop using student loans and he really would get a job. But he didn't. I helped him with rent for two months which set me back a lot of money but I wanted to help him, I wanted him to get a job.

Perhaps his behavior is then is part to blame by my behavior to help him. But I thought I was doing the compassionate and motivating thing to help him get a job! I don't think so now. He felt bad that I had to pay for things for him and his mom has been helping him with money now. He still hasn't gotten a job. When I ask him about it he says he already feels bad and I shouldn't stress him out anymore than he is. If he brings this issue up himself he is alot more willing to discuss it, although he mostly says he's a failure and has been all of his life and he doesn't know what to do.

He tells me I made a mistake becoming girlfriend. I tell him I don't think I did and I believe that, but I can't live like this forever not knowing if he'll be able to become self-sufficient again, for my sake and for his sake. He tells me he's depressed and he's anxious so I tell him to see a psychologist or psychiatrist but he says they wouldn't make a difference, that only he can make the difference BUT HE IS TOO UNMOTIVATED TO DO IT!!!

Finally, here is my decision that I need help with. Our lease for our apartment expires in late June and we planned to move together up to an area we both like and where I can go to graduate school. I want to tell him he has three choices if he wants to live with me anymore after June: either seek help medically and mentally, or get a job, or stop living with me. I don't want to break up with him, I just want him to get the point I can't live like this with him both financially and emotionally. What is fair for him and for me?

Thank you so for your consideration and insight.

[chameleon]

Even though he has ADD, anxiety, and depression, that's not an excuse to do what he's doing to you! Those disorders don't mean you get a free ride in life (I have them too).
I think you should shorten your list of ultimatums to this -
1. Get a job AND therapy.
2. Stop living with you.

Lack of motivation is a huge factor of all 3 of his disorders, and he needs a kick in the pants to get the help he needs and pull himself up.
If your love is going to survive without you ending up resenting him, for both your sakes, it's ultimatum time.
He'll be so much happier when he gets back on track. He must be feeling horrible about himself right now, but it's a vicious cycle he's in and it's only going to get worse if it continues unchecked.
Tough Love.
Good luck.

[sehrita]

Originally Posted by chameleon

Even though he has ADD, anxiety, and depression, that's not an excuse to do what he's doing to you! Those disorders don't mean you get a free ride in life (I have them too).
I think you should shorten your list of ultimatums to this -
1. Get a job AND therapy.
2. Stop living with you.

Lack of motivation is a huge factor of all 3 of his disorders, and he needs a kick in the pants to get the help he needs and pull himself up.
If your love is going to survive without you ending up resenting him, for both your sakes, it's ultimatum time.
He'll be so much happier when he gets back on track. He must be feeling horrible about himself right now, but it's a vicious cycle he's in and it's only going to get worse if it continues unchecked.
Tough Love.
Good luck.

I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chloe516]

Originally Posted by chameleon

Even though he has ADD, anxiety, and depression, that's not an excuse to do what he's doing to you! Those disorders don't mean you get a free ride in life (I have them too).
I think you should shorten your list of ultimatums to this -
1. Get a job AND therapy.
2. Stop living with you.

Lack of motivation is a huge factor of all 3 of his disorders, and he needs a kick in the pants to get the help he needs and pull himself up.
If your love is going to survive without you ending up resenting him, for both your sakes, it's ultimatum time.
He'll be so much happier when he gets back on track. He must be feeling horrible about himself right now, but it's a vicious cycle he's in and it's only going to get worse if it continues unchecked.
Tough Love.
Good luck.

I also agree, there's a difference between trying as hard as you can and still struggling that much, and not even seeking out a job and help.

Don't give in to his manipulation about you not asking him about a job b/c it makes him feel worse. I agree he needs the motivation somewhere and knowing he's being held accountable will be motivation.

Depression is difficult and he might really be feeling hopeless, but should be working on that and getting help, not blaming others for his feelings.

Good luck!

[alagirl]

I read an article recently that said people (I think they said young men) with ADD take a lot longer to mature than others. True or not, he's probably not changing any time soon. Decide what you want to live with. Breaking up will be very hard on you, sounds like you love him a lot, but we hope you have a long life ahead of you and you may not want to continue to put your emotional eggs in a basket where they keep getting broken.

[ClearConfusion]

Originally Posted by jamoe

He tells me I made a mistake becoming girlfriend. I tell him I don't think I did and I believe that, but I can't live like this forever not knowing if he'll be able to become self-sufficient again, for my sake and for his sake. He tells me he's depressed and he's anxious so I tell him to see a psychologist or psychiatrist but he says they wouldn't make a difference, that only he can make the difference BUT HE IS TOO UNMOTIVATED TO DO IT!!!

Does he think that he should be able to sort it out himself; to pull himself up by the boot straps?

Yes, he's right that only he can make the difference: By seeking treatment!!

It seems like he's feeling really low and doesn't have much of a self esteem. I'm thinking of the way he's belittling himself saying he's a failure or that you made a mistake becoming a girlfriend.

I think it would be fair to both of you if you were to let him know that you will not be able to live with him unless he seeks treatment. He may feel like you're rejecting him totally due to being depressed, but you can only do so much as saying "If you do this we can live together, if you don't do this we can't live together." If his depression makes him see only "We can't live together" you cannot do much about that, but assure him he's mistaken and hope he'll pursue treatment anyway. For his own sake eventually if not for both of you's sake now.

[nonadder]

Originally Posted by jamoe

What is fair for him and for me?

Equality.

He needs to be there for you as much as you're there for him. He needs to contribute both emotionally and financially as well. ADD or not. I also am faced with the challenge of living with an ADD boyfriend. I understand the struggles that you have to face. It's hard, no doubt about that. And its equally hard for them, im sure. Someone once told me in this forum something that really stuck.
Bad behaviour is bad behaviour; ADD or not. You should also know that because of you helping him, you arent contributing to his bad behaviour.

Those boundaries that you are considering setting in June, i personally agree with. He needs (like everyone) limits. Keep encouraging him to seek help, get a job. If he still chooses neither, by June, its only fair to give him the "ultimatum".

[dormammau2008]

in the end an ultimatum might make him wake up to what your feeling sometimes you have to do whats hard to be hard dorm

[jamoe]

Thank you all so much for your feedback, it helps me ground myself. I haven't yet delivered the ultimatum that I mentioned but I plan to do it soon. I know my hesitation is part of the problem of this issue not being resolved, it's just I doubt myself. Your feedback grounds to me to assure myself that I am not wrong in feeling the way I do, but it's hard because I am maybe too optimistic, too hoping my boyfriend will figure it all out on his own. I need advice on if I ought to get another person involved that knows my boyfriend and I to help me convince him that what he is doing is not benefical. He doesn't seem to realize it yet. I don't want him to think like I am ganging up on him though! I am unsure what to do. I can't convince him of anything.

I want to post a summary of a conversation I had with him after I posted on here last time. I want to see what you all think, because I am at a wall in determing what to do. I am going to tell him that ultimatum very soon but I need to know what other possibilties I have. Is there anyway I can persuade him of anything I think without making him resent me? I am afraid somehow I am going to damage this relationship more than is necessary and I want to do this right because I care about him and I care about me.

Thank you again for any insight in advance. I am so happy there are 3rd person opinons out there like this, anyone else I turn to I fear will not understand the situation like you here at this forum DO understand


Me: I want to talk you about not having a job.
Him: right now is not the right time to discuss it.
Me: it never is the right time! I want to talk you about this! You ought to do something about not working or going to school.
Him: What is there to talk about? I want to go to school but it's the wrong time to do it.
Me: when is the right time?
Him: I don't know.
Me: then you could work in the meantime.
Him: I am trying but I can't, its too hard for me.
Me: maybe you ought to see a doctor like a psychologist because if it is this hard.
Him: you don't understant the situation I am in at all! What do want me to say?
Me: I want you to figure out what you need to do so you can be in a better situation than you currently are in! I want you to say "I am going to figure this out very soon and I will consider going to a doctor if it would help me."
Him: you know I don't trust doctors! Anyway, I AM figurg it out and I think about this all the time, don't you know I feel bad?!
Me: I know you feel bad. But you are being evasive, you drink alcohol, and you tell me you will do things but you don't do anything. Don't you think doing nothing was is getting you nowhere?
Him: I agree with you but if I was employed and was being paid decently and had graduated with a bachelor's degree, then things wouldn't be so bad.
(I realized he was talking about me in the third person.)
Me: I am sorry that you feel like I'm attacking you and I'm trying to make you feel bad but that isn't my intention. I want to motivate you to do something else because I want to help you out of this situation.
Him: maybe you need to see the psychologist.
Me: maybe if I did I could ask him what he thought about this situation.
Him: all a doctor would recommend is that you should break up with me.
Me: I wouldn't accept that answer! I want to get help for you and not just break up. So if you disagree with me about going to a doctor then tell me what you want to do as a course of action from now on.
Him: I don't know.
Me: I can't live with this answer forever.
Him: I know. This is why most relationships break up, it's because of money issues.
Me: I don't want to break up with you. This isn't just a money issue, it's an issue wih you being unable to get a job or do anything else with your life at the moment. And because it is an issue with you, it is an issue with me. Please tell me if you possibly have any other ideas on what to do because you are disagreeing with so much.
Him: I don't know. I told you this already!
Me: I have given you too much time not to know what to do and I am too nice to you and it is not fair for me. If you can't listen to me then maybe you can listen to someone else for help. I am not going to wait like this forever and I don't want you to stay like this forever, for your sake and my sake.


What can I do now? Tell him the ultimatum immediately? He claims he'll get a job soon again... He's claimed this like five times a while now. I need to do something, I just want to know what is the most appropriate thing to do to avoid something rash happening, like one of us flat out leaving one another due to our frustrations. I fear that might happen and I feel bad about it because I don't have ADD, depression, extreme anxiety, so I don't want to be unfair to him. I just don't want him to be unfair to me, either. Thank you, one last time.

[crime_scene]

I'd say he is expecting to fail and feels helpless.

I'm a nonADDer so I can't really say how it feels to have ADD, but I know that although there are some ADDers who do choose to remain very scattered and unfocussed and therefore never achieve much there are also many who struggle to do achievements, learn new techniques, to get to a desired goal, to have a successful relationship, to be financially stable etc.

I was thinking...what is the biggest bang for your buck in terms of your relationship with him?

I think it centres around him dealing with his ADD.

At this point, since he is unmotivated and nothing is stimulating him to the point where he makes getting a job a priority, you may have to mean your ultimatim. Sometimes, this is a wake up call for an ADD person.

Anyway, you can try making an appointment for both of you to see a counsellor who is wellversed in ADD issues, and demand that he go with you, but hate to say I've seen a lot of this here...you might have to make serious demands with consequences before he will pay attention.

Hope i'm wrong though, and he wakes up early!

cs

[musicmom]

Here's something to think about. Do you want this man to be your husband some day? Do you want him to be the father of your children? Do you want to be talking to him about getting a job when you have a mortgage and kids? Project into the future a little.

I say this because I have been married to a man with ADD who has had trouble holding a job for 17 years now. At least my husband is willing to continue to look for a new job, but he has had so much trouble hanging on to a decent job for more than a year or so.

Imagine many months of covering his expenses. Imagine what it feels like to be his "mom" instead of his partner.

Without a real concerted effort on his part, this is not going to change. I know that the end of any relationship is difficult, but let me tell you, if I had known 17 years ago what I know now, I would have said, "Good-bye." It's not that he's not worthy of having a relationship. But being in a relationship with someone with untreated ADD is a full-time job.

You still have a choice. \

[Crackerjack]

I agree with Crime Scene, your bf sounds like he's expecting to fail and feels helpless.

It also sounds like your bf has inattentive ADD, which is what I have. I can't speak for him, but maybe I can show you a different viewpoint since I've been through a similar situation - everything I say here is strictly my opinion, obviously.

A comment he made in your conversation with him struck a chord with me and sums up his overall situation pretty well: "Anyway, I AM figuring it out and I think about this all the time, don't you know I feel bad?!"

I'm stating the obvious here, but that's his main issue - all he does is think and not follow through with any action, which makes him feel worse so he'll think about that some more, not follow through and feel even more worse. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Same thing in your first post: "When I ask him about it he says he already feels bad and I shouldn't stress him out anymore than he is. If he brings this issue up himself he is alot more willing to discuss it, although he mostly says he's a failure and has been all of his life and he doesn't know what to do."

I had the same problem for years - and still do to a degree - of saying I'll do something and not start or start it and not finish. Or I'd take forever to think things through. Then I'd get depressed about not making any forward progress. I couldn't figure out why because I knew I wanted to do whatever it was...but I still couldn't finish it.

I'm also similar in that if someone pushes me on something, I'm reluctant to talk about it. If I bring it up on my own, however, I'm much more willing to discuss it.

What I got from others was what everyone here is advocating - tough love and ultimatums. They'd say things like "If you REALLY wanted to do this, you'd do it", "What you need is a good kick in the pants to get yourself moving", and so on. I'd end up feeling resentful that everyone was harping on me because I DID want to do it, even though I wasn't making progress and it'd make my depression worse.

What changed things was last year when I realized my ADD was affecting me more than first thought, so I did more research into it. I came across a book called Healing ADD by Dr. Daniel Amen and found a bit of info which made a tremendous difference. Dr. Amen has done a bunch of research on ADD using SPECT brainscans, which measure the brain's bloodflow. What he found was when ADDers try to concentrate, the part of their brain (the PFC) dealing with concentration, focus and following through shuts down.

Simply put - when they need to concentrate the most, they can't. And the harder they try, the more they'll fail.

This explained why I'd completely freeze in some situations and not follow through in others, even if it was the simplest task. I got stuck in a dead end job for a number of years because I didn't trust myself. After all, if I'd freeze up in a basic admin job (which I did in a previous position), how could I think I'd do better with something that had more responsibility?

Finding this out was the biggest relief because I realized it wasn't my fault I was failing/depressed because I was lazy/stupid, unmotivated, not good enough, etc.. There was an actual reason behind it and I - and everyone else - was simply going for the wrong solution and had been for a number of years.

"Tough love" doesn't work on me and will backfire. Period. This might be the case with your bf as well. I think he's under so much pressure/anxiety/guilt he's literally stuck spinning his wheels and adding more pressure might make it worse, even if it's well intentioned.

So how did I get around this problem? Simple - by removing the pressure. If I got "stuck" again when I was doing something, I'd stop and ask myself where the pressure was coming from, find a way to minimize it, and move on. My productivity improved greatly, as well as my confidence, and I didn't have to use drugs. So now I know if I really want to do something...I put it off even more. If I really put off doing something, that means I really want to do it, which - oddly enough - I take as a great sign...I just have to take the pressure off to do it, which can still be difficult at times.

My advice would be to either buy Healing ADD (the book also covers how to use positive reinforcement with ADDers) or show your bf my post and see if he sees any similarity, especially with the "being under pressure" situations. Stunning advice, I know , but I've got to head out somewhere so that's my "quick fix". I'll think about it some more and do a followup post.

[twistedself]

Great post Crackerjack. I believe that I have Inattentive ADD or combined. (Searching for docs in my area to do proper dx). Your suggestion of laying off the pressure is right on. I personally put way more pressure on myself than anyone else could. The ultimatum for me doesn't work either... unless I "feel" the ultimatum. Basically unless good old fight or flight kicks in and I have to. I know all about this, I have 2 year old spontanious identical triplet boys. I can do amazing things on very little sleep when I have to.

Jamoe, your bf can do amazing things I am guessing as well. My guess is he needs the internal push of the "danger" point to do anything that you see as progress. He needs to get to the point where you are walking out the door tomorrow before he can get off his butt. This is where you can really help him. this is where he is raring to go and receptive to your ideas and talking about the issues. This is where you can get him to agree to see doctors, to try different meds, to get him to make phone calls to set up job interviews. He probably only needs a few small sucesses to get his self-esteem high enough for him to follow through with what he promises. This is where you fit in if you love him and want to help him. I am not saying you need to become his mother, I am saying that you need to help him to see that he can "just do it" and things are possible. You need to help now because you love him, and you need to stop helping him in the future because you also love him. As much as he wants a mother, he will resent you for it later, if not right away.

One of the ways I have asked my wife to help me is with making phone calls for appointments and such. One of my biggest anxieties is making the initial contact with someone I don't know or haven't talked with. My wife has no issues with it, so she offered/I asked her to make the first call and have the other party call me back. Works for me. Works for her. She isn't mothering me, and things get done.

twist.

[crime_scene]

Great input crackerjack and twistedself!!!

Of course I would have to blend both opinions wouldnt' I!!!

So do you folks think that a reduction in pressures on specific tasks, and then an ultimatim or significant consequence might be a possible approach?

Would that work together?

[twistedself]

Yes, blend away. I think like most people, add'ers have to decide and do things because they want to. The difference is our threshold point at which we get bored with things is MUCH, MUCH LOWER. Unless, of course we are already hyper about something and we can use the hyper to do "boring" things. Our definition of boring changes by the second so don't bother to figure out what excites us right now

Hmm, tangent.. okay, yes, reduce the pressure on things that really don't matter to you. The things that aren't going to break you or him. Also, if you can reduce the pressure of what really does bother you. Tell him and yourself, that you are not going to "ask", "bug", "question" or "remind" him about the issue at hand. Just that you expect it to be done. He can do it if he wants to. The problem is that he probably wants to as well, he just doesn't know "how" to do it.

I have tried to explain to my wife what it is like when you just don't want to do somethign and how it is "painful". Painful is the only way I know how to explain the feeling. Feels soul sucking. We would rather do nothing than something. Nothing doesn't hurt now. nothing hurts later. Unfortunately, eventually, it will all catch up with him. Once it gets to this point, the adrenaline kicks in and then it can happen.

For me it comes down to brain chemistry forcing us to learn certain habits, and behaviours that are hard, not impossible, to fix.

One quote that I love because it is very true, but because it fits in this situation is:
“The chains of habit are too weak to be felt until they are too strong to be broken” Samuel Johnson


The chains are built very young when we don't know what chains are...

Twist