Adderall and Magnesim+Supplements

[anonmangod]

I have a lot to say (no puns intended). This thread was interesting to say the least, lot of interesting stories. Anywhosie, i feel like resurrecting this thread to add more information and supplement combination experience (i have a family member in the homeopathic remedy business, and have free pick of what i want from the supplements)

Well, without wasting any time i'm going to talk about me. yayyaya (no puns intended)

current diagnosis: adult adhd and social anxiety.

• 140mg vyvanse and 8mg clonazepam, both daily
• also prescribed 130mg wellbutrin SR's which I'll have tomorrow and will post about my experience.

blahblahblah 20yr old male, 170 lbs, been through a lot of what echoes through this interesting thread lol. been on this combo since june 2011. lots of experience before that. anywhosie.

• "Magnesium is a catalyst or cofactor in metabolic processes that help break down proteins and fats, assists in metabolizing sugar, keeps heart rhythm regular, supports a healthy immune system, works with calcium to help build strong bones and promotes healthy blood pressure levels.
• Because magnesium and calcium compete for chemical pathways in the body, it is strongly suggested that magnesium and calcium be taken together to ensure a balance of the two nutrient minerals.
• Symptoms of magnesium deficiency include agitation and anxiety, irritability, nausea and vomiting, abnormal heart rhythms, confusion, muscle spasm and weakness, hyperventilation, insomnia, and poor nail growth. In more severe cases, there may be seizures."
• Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. In one study of 119 children with ADHD, 95% were found to have mild magnesium deficiency. In another study, 75 children with both ADHD and a magnesium deficiency were treated with either just ADHD medication, or ADHD medication and a magnesium supplement. The children whose magnesium deficiency was treated showed a significant improvement to behavior, concentration and irritability."

Magnesium then, prevent the effects of long-term use and adrenal fatigue. Which a lot of you who are just beginning have no idea its lying ahead, and the poster who was about 3 and 1/2 months in is most likely getting a small taste of from what he described.
So for my narcissistic two cents, this is magnesium's function/mechanism of action in preventing the 'tolerance' known as adrenal fatigue syndrome.
The experiences of most addppl suffering from tolerance overlap with those of adrenal fatigue syndrome.
As for its potentiation reports, those can be explained by the the same line of thinking.

Similarly, amphetamine users suffering from the other 'tolerance', euphoria associated with the honeymoon period of these drugs, can prevent that with l-tyrosine, or more effectively tyrosine ethyl ester or l-dopa.

well, outta time for now, let's hear updates all of you who left this thread, it will be interesting to see where you're all at now. I'll post more if anyone thinks it's worthwhile, or has a question, like i said i have experience with so many so so many supplements even other drugs if anyone has any questions go for it : )

[sarahsweets]

Can adderall cause adrenal fatigue?

[anonmangod]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Can adderall cause adrenal fatigue?

Yes, from the stress on your adrenal glands, they eventually shrink, lose the ability to produce as much as they once did. Subsequent to that your immune system crashes, you become weak no matter how much meds you take, etc there's other thigns that happen, I've experienced it in my day.

[BR549]

Originally Posted by anonmangod

Yes, from the stress on your adrenal glands, they eventually shrink, lose the ability to produce as much as they once did. Subsequent to that your immune system crashes, you become weak no matter how much meds you take, etc there's other thigns that happen, I've experienced it in my day.

Interesting......In talking with my endocrinologist he says there is no such thing (with regards to medical diagnosis/condition) as adrenal fatigue. Adrenal Insufficiency is, but not adrenal fatigue. Addison's disease, Congenital adrenal hyperplasia are adrenal insufficiencies. But fatigue? It's a term used in alternative medicine. There is no scientific evidence that adrenal fatigue is a specific condition. It's also not recognized as a medical condition or diagnosis by the medical community.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adr...atigue/AN01583

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

Adrenal fatigue is a term applied to a collection of nonspecific symptoms, such as body aches, fatigue, nervousness, sleep disturbances and digestive problems. The term often shows up in popular health books and on alternative medicine websites, but it isn't an accepted medical diagnosis.

Your adrenal glands produce a variety of hormones that are essential to life. The medical term adrenal insufficiency, or Addison's disease, refers to inadequate production of one or more of these hormones as a result of an underlying disease.

If you try to find information on "adrenal fatigue" not "adrenal insufficiency", what you will find are alternative medicine sites.

While Magnesium deficiency can cause brain fog, mood issues and other problems a severe deficiency is rare. However, too much magnesium can cause problems. The most common cause of too much magnesium is supplements.

ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium/
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002423.htm

Magnesium, or any other supplement taken in conduction with ADHD medication, should not be taken without the supervision of your doctor.

[AdderRoller]

I started taking magnesium about four hours after my last dose of adderall to help with side effects.

Before I started magnesium I was getting horrible muscle pains in my chest, arms, sholulders, and back that were definitely a result of the adderall as I have never had these pains before. Also, I was very agitated and ANXIOUS when adderall was wearing off. I read about magnesium (chelated form) on this site and gave it a try. My experience with adderall has changed dramatically and I am no longer afraid of adderall.

That being said, I do not take magnesium with my adderall. I take it well after the drug has been released in to my blood stream and is beginning to wear down (about four hours after my last ir dose or 7 hours after I take an XR dose). This is a great natural supplement to resotre the magnesium that adderall can deplete from your body. I don't have a diet rich in magnesium so taking a chelated form of the supplement (200mg) is right for me.

Like the others said, taking magnesium cocurrently with adderall can raise the amounts of amphetamine released in to the blood stream. Thus, I would not suggest taking the supplement with adderall unless you are framiliar with or can handle the effects. I personally believe taking the supplement with adderall produces negative effects if you are taking a higher dose of adderall or an XR dose of adderall.

I love magnesium and would not still be taking adderall if I hadn't discovered it's wonderful benefits.

[anonmangod]

Originally Posted by AdderRoller

I started taking magnesium about four hours after my last dose of adderall to help with side effects.

Before I started magnesium I was getting horrible muscle pains in my chest, arms, sholulders, and back that were definitely a result of the adderall as I have never had these pains before. Also, I was very agitated and ANXIOUS when adderall was wearing off. I read about magnesium (chelated form) on this site and gave it a try. My experience with adderall has changed dramatically and I am no longer afraid of adderall.

That being said, I do not take magnesium with my adderall. I take it well after the drug has been released in to my blood stream and is beginning to wear down (about four hours after my last ir dose or 7 hours after I take an XR dose). This is a great natural supplement to resotre the magnesium that adderall can deplete from your body. I don't have a diet rich in magnesium so taking a chelated form of the supplement (200mg) is right for me.

Like the others said, taking magnesium cocurrently with adderall can raise the amounts of amphetamine released in to the blood stream. Thus, I would not suggest taking the supplement with adderall unless you are framiliar with or can handle the effects. I personally believe taking the supplement with adderall produces negative effects if you are taking a higher dose of adderall or an XR dose of adderall.

I love magnesium and would not still be taking adderall if I hadn't discovered it's wonderful benefits.

word right? So i went and haaaaaaad bloodwork done for fun, and it was wild

I'm borderline diabetic and have hypothyroidism
"People with prediabetes have glucose levels that are higher than normal but not high enough yet to indicate diabetes. The condition used to be called borderline diabetes. Most people with prediabetes don't have symptoms, but they are considered to be at high risk of developing heart disease.

• Normally, your body produces a hormone called insulin to help your cells use the energy (glucose) found in food. With diabetes, either your body doesn't make enough insulin or doesn't efficiently use the insulin it does produce. When glucose builds up in the blood, it can damage the tiny blood vessels in the kidneys, heart, eyes, and nervous system.
  With prediabetes, the subtle balance between glucose and insulin has been thrown off. The pancreas may not be able to produce enough insulin after a meal to "clear" the incoming glucose from the blood. Or cells may be insulin resistant. When cells are insulin resistant, they won't allow the insulin to escort glucose from the bloodstream into them. Too much glucose in the blood is also called high blood sugar or hyperglycemia. A low blood sugar level is called hypoglycemia.
  If you have prediabetes, you're at high risk of developing type 2 diabetes as well as the serious medical problems associated with diabetes, including heart disease and stroke. With prediabetes, you are at a 50% higher risk of heart disease and stroke than someone who does not have prediabetes."

hypothyroidism - if you like to read hereyago
Symptoms of Hypothyroidism

• Fatigue
• Weakness
• Weight gain or increased difficulty losing weight
• Coarse, dry hair
• Dry, rough pale skin
• Hair loss
• Cold intolerance (you can't tolerate cold temperatures like those around you)
• Muscle cramps and frequent muscle aches
• Constipation
• Depression
• Irritability
• Memory loss
• Abnormal menstrual cycles
• Decreased libido

also my pH was too acidic (connected to amphetamine medications' reputation for better hmmm metablism/function/digestion lol in an alkaline system??? '\(?_?<

word...well ..damn. wellll i've been both my whole life on the real lol i just had different words for it. well thyroid medication is quite lovely. oh p.s ssssssshhh secret time idk what everyone was saying about eating protein every four hours or at every meal. Idk see cuz they also said that i was eating too much protein, didn't seem serious but my albumin levels were high. off to read about albumin yay.
update on albumin -seriously why in a family of doctors not think to consider the other causes of high albumin levels, Dehydration, and vitamin A deficiency. stay up on what your doing its medicine its srsbsns Soooooo down on the bet, i'm betting my cards on these two causes. who cany say though really. gonna trial and error varying amounts of calories, effects of different vitamin complexes, SAM-E, a nice multivitamin, some other fascinations and we shall see when i go get more blood work how interesting <(^_^<

[bizarre101]

borderline diabetic and have hypothyroidism

Congrats, you found help... I envy you...

Do you know, how the "borderline diabetis" was diagnosed?

What blood values are relevant for this?

Did you get anything for the hypothyroidism prescribed?

Be careful with supplements... they all have an effect... talk to your doctor before...

[FocusPocus10]

You seem to be quite delusional. My advice is to stop over dosing on your medication, seek immediate medical attention, and accept the fact that it is unhealthy and un-"godly" to be in the schizo/manic state that you're in.

Originally Posted by anonmangod

word...well ..damn. wellll i've been both my whole life on the real lol i just had different words for it. well thyroid medication is quite lovely. oh p.s ssssssshhh secret time idk what everyone was saying about eating protein every four hours or at every meal. Idk see cuz they also said that i was eating too much protein, didn't seem serious but my albumin levels were high. off to read about albumin yay.
update on albumin -seriously why in a family of doctors not think to consider the other causes of high albumin levels, Dehydration, and vitamin A deficiency. stay up on what your doing its medicine its srsbsns Soooooo down on the bet, i'm betting my cards on these two causes. who cany say though really. gonna trial and error varying amounts of calories, effects of different vitamin complexes, SAM-E, a nice multivitamin, some other fascinations and we shall see when i go get more blood work how interesting <(^_^<

[anonmangod]

Originally Posted by FocusPocus10

You seem to be quite delusional. My advice is to stop over dosing on your medication, seek immediate medical attention, and accept the fact that it is unhealthy and un-"godly" to be in the schizo/manic state that you're in.

congratulations youre the first person to have called me out on this
but my sister figured this out with her psych (she has same diagnosis and meds is a lawyer so she's pretty up on her brain game). What we have and probably a lot of people diagnosed with adhd is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysthymia

and if anyone was still wondering i didn't look at my bloodwork i was just told a few things were off and was prescribed thyroid medication. Oh and diabetes and hypothyroidism runs in my family (my grandmother is diabetic) my mom has hypothyroidism. jbtw.

[just jackmack]

Absolutely, Dysthymia, is absolutely a player and a concern, I call it conditional depression, always there on simmer, waiting to strike. Increases in fatigue, confusion, cycling on add type thoughts. That leach on the brain effect, activates this, and it kind of overtakes you for days, usually not weeks.. Its weird, because the actual effectiveness of the med.'s seem to be diminished, weakened, very very frustrating.

[Ipsofacto]

After two months of 400mg expensive bio-available Mg supplement, switching from RO water to hard tap water, eating high Mg foods, and lots of B6, my focus is back, palpitations gone, and BP back down.

I got a blood serum test done, and Mg was just scrapping into the bottom of normal range. I can't imagine how low it must have been two months ago.

[Cenex22]

Oh hey, someone bumped an old magnesium thread. I suppose this is as good a time as any to ask then, where can I find a good non-oxide pill/capsule supplement? So far I've checked Walgreens and CVS and all I could find was a citrate saline solution and a low chloride pill with calcium.

[Ipsofacto]

and this is the high B6 multivitamin I'm using



I've also found Epsom salt baths really good occasionally.

[ArctoLupinus]

Scientific method, folks, keep in mind. Anecdotal and other loose substantiating theses cannot exist in the world of POWERFUL medicinal drugs, and the employment thereof. Any other approach is simply self-immolating indirectly...

So, magnesium and the isomers of amphetamine with the idea of chelated or glycine magnesium as prophylactic and/or protective agent strengthening the brain so off-balanced by the chaotic unnaturalness of amphetamine chemistry so productive of free radical-related degenerative neuronal necrosis. Let's start off scientifically by citing published material relevant of quality. Here we go... From the below scientific outline, the variables involved in amphetamine (including methylated amphetamine) neurotoxicity are seriously complex--hyperthermia is part of the picture in a nontrivial way. The functioning and malfunctioning, of the glutamatergic neurotransmission system (dopamine is not EVERYTHING) is key; and indeed NMDA antagonistic agents (and others) RELATIVELY alleviate certain undesirable potentialities associated with amphetamine usage. BUT those not utterly erudite in biochemistry and neuroscience should not even assay such wildness of experimentation, unless collaborating with doctors or similar medical intellects. I shall post a key portion of the author's paper from the American neuropsychopharmacology journal, and hopefully intelligent discussion void of soft anecdotal "proofs", and worse, can more felicitously develop... I'll bold key terms and statements... (MK-801 is pretentious talk for Dizocilpine)...

http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000166/Default.htm

Sustained high-dose administration of amphetamines (especially methamphetamine) to experimental animals produces a persistent depletion of DA which is associated with terminal degeneration (62, 182, 195), as well as neuronal chromatolysis in the brain stem, cortex and striatum (42, 182). In contrast, continuous dosing with extremely high doses of cocaine (100–250 mg/kg/day i.v.) did not induce terminal degeneration in frontal cortex and striatum (62, 183). Recently, Cubellis et al. (36) presented evidence that amphetamine, in contrast to cocaine, induces redistribution of DA from the vesicles into the cytosol; thus, the loss of the protection of the vesicles' relatively reducing environment results in cytosolic oxidative stress that may initiate amphetamine neurotoxicity. The DA depletion is reported to be permanent in the caudate of monkeys (196). The main hypotheses for underlying mechanisms have included 1) the conversion of DA into a hydroxy oxidative metabolite (195, 196); and 2) glutaminergic stimulation of toxicity, which can be inhibited by N-methyl-D-aspartate antagonist MK-801 (200).

Methamphetamine toxicity is inhibited by a variety of drug treatments, including: 1) DA synthesis inhibitor alpha-methyl-para-tyrosine; 2) DA receptor antagonists; 3) NMDA receptor antagonists, e.g., MK-801; 4) DA and serotonergic reuptake inhibitors protecting against DA and serotonin toxicity respectively (195). Even though most studies have found that serotonergic and DA reuptake inhibitors specifically protect these two sites, certain reuptake blockers (such as benztropine) do not (195). On the other hand, mazindol, a non-specific blocker, protects against both DA and serotonergic neurotoxicity.

Ali et al. (1994) have further demonstrated in mice that a major factor for neurotoxicity is hyperthermia which is highly correlated with the degree of long-term DA depletion (21). Furthermore, haloperidol, diazepam and MK-801, all of which can reduce methamphetamine-induced hyperthermia, protect rats against DA depletion (4). They also demonstrated that reducing the ambient temperature (4°C) reduced neurotoxicity to the same levels found when phenobarbital, diazepam and MK-801 were present to protect the cell. Tolerance to methamphetamine induced by increasing doses also reduces the hyperthermic response and as well protects against neurotoxicity (89, 188).

An important caveat is that not all protective mechanisms act by preventing the hyperthermic effect; the monoamine uptake blockers inhibit neurotoxicity in the absence of inhibition of hyperthermia, e.g., fluoxetine blocks methamphetamine serotonin toxicity without reducing temperature (140). The monoamine protection from neurotoxicity by reuptake inhibition is emphasized by the unexpected discovery that even massive and 24-hour continuous dosing of cocaine, e.g., 100 mg/kg/day, does not result in DA system neurotoxicity (119, 182, 183). Hyperthermia has been well documented to increase amphetamine stereotypy (93, 220). Hyperthermia alone is well known to result in neuronal chromatolysis and has been previously proposed as a significant contributor to amphetamine-induced DA depletion and neuronal damage in clinical as well as experimental animal histopathology (52). Hyperthermia may have been one of the factors resulting in deaths among athletes taking moderate doses of amphetamine in the 1960s and 70s (145). Even in mild hyperthermia, increased body temperature induces a linear decrease in the inhibitory feedback of stimulants on somatodendritic autoreceptors (130). Thus, body temperature changes induced by amphetamine should be considered as one of the contributors to toxicity.

So, magnesium, as a comparatively moderate or mild NMDA-antagonist, indeed, is not utterly insane, to visualize in the context of preventive prophylaxis of some of the "nastiness" of amphetamine. And moving to pharmaceuticals, prescribed medications of varying nature (antidepressants ranging to chemotherapeutic agents) with NMDA-antagonistic properties, reasonably can be hypothesized to be of possible remedial importance... But science never stops growing in knowledge, and the little we know about these matters is already almost inhumanly arcane...

So: the picture is dizzyingly complicated, and the over-idealization and over-magnification of magnesium and NMDA antagonists as quasi-alchemic, all-curative "elixirs", without intensive further studying, is untenable... Brainstorm away, now, forum intelligentsia...

[Ipsofacto]

Originally Posted by ArctoLupinus

So: the picture is dizzyingly complicated, and the over-idealization and over-magnification of magnesium and NMDA antagonists as quasi-alchemic, all-curative "elixirs", without intensive further studying, is untenable... Brainstorm away, now, forum intelligentsia...

OK.

There were were other factors in my supplementing Mg. These included looking at my long term medical history, considering the symptoms of various conditions and disorders, the effects of diverse medications for different conditions, diet, mineral and vitamin intake.

The main issue with so many studies is that they look at an interaction in isolation of everything else. Doctors seldom look at the big picture. I made a graph of my blood pressure, and perceived severity of my ADHD symptoms. Over the timeline it was possible to correlate the introduction of medications like diuretics, PPIs, ACE inhibitors, and diet/mineral intakes changes, and also other medical conditions with changes in the graphed BP/ADHD symptoms.

The clincher I think was gouty arthritis that flared up after introduction of blood pressure medications. My doctor had been sure from the xrays that that these were gout. However the test showed normal uric acid levels. It now appears that it was in fact Pseudogout, which is often a result of Mg deficiency. This was something he hadn't considered at the time.

Using progressive muscle relaxation after my ADHD diagnosis, I had been able to drop the diuretic BP medication. It now seems possible this allowed me to retain more Mg, and made the Adderall more effective initially. During the period when Adderall was no longer helping my symptoms, the psueodogout flared up again. This pointed to a return to magnesium deficiency.

The big picture here makes magnesium, and other vitamin/trace element deficiencies the most obvious route for me to pursue at this time. My family doctor seems to agree.