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Old 01-13-12, 01:24 AM
saul.a saul.a is offline
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Re: Kratom?

Please see below for a post of mine from a different thread... I wanted to quote it, but im doing this from an iPhone and its a bit of trouble so i just copy and pasted. Its my own work so its all good...

Just to throw in my 2 cents, I will have to agree with both the good and the bad of kratom, but all in all, if you can keep yourself in control of your usage (easier said than done) it can be of much help with ADHD symptoms. If you are someone who can not control usage, if you have abused drugs in the past, etc., stay away. Far away. I say this because I did become a daily kratom user and at that stage, complete cessation of it after extended use results in an awful withdrawal. It took months to taper down to the acceptable levels I am comfortable with using. I will explain some of my own experience, some tricks I've learned and please form your own conclusion.

Before getting into that. I must say this: if you choose to use kratom, there are several rules that must be consistently followed, otherwise you will experience awful side effects. I call them the golden rules of kratom. They are:>>

1. ALWAYS take some sort of motion sickness medication prior to use. This is not negotiable. Do this and you will probably have about a 85-90% chance of not getting nausea. Do it not and you can guarantee that you will feel sick to your stomach for the rest of the time you are awake that day. (Bonine is usually better as it is non-drowsy, but dramamine can also be used if bonine not available). Just like opiates, kratom causes your body's inner-ear equilibrium to be off, thus causing motion sickness. Not many people know that. I only know it by accident and trial and error.

2. NEVER consume kratom if you have even the most mild hangover. It will make your life miserable. Even if you only feel the faintest of hangover symptoms, the kratom will multiply those symptoms by a thousand-fold. I believe this to be for the same reason as above; when you are hungover, your body's equilibrium is off, not to mention your stomach is a trainwreck. If you do not follow this rule, you have a good chance of vomiting uncontrollably until your body has rid itself of everything in your stomach. I know this from experience

3. LESS IS MORE. Kratom is both a stimulant and a depressant; How, you ask? Well, in smaller quantities, it has stimulant like effects, similar to yohimbe, but with some euphoric properties similar to opiates and an effect on concentration that could be a close runner up to some of the meds we ADD’ers take. That being said, larger quantities will have depressant effects; another issue with larger quantities is tolerance. You do not want that to rise because kratom is addicting and expensive. If you are in the early stages of use and you aren't getting the same bang for your buck off 2 or 3 grams, do NOT increase; take a few days off. As I said and other posters said, this can be addicting. Just like many of our meds, once you get on the rising dose elevator, it’s difficult to go back down.

4. DO NOT USE THIS RECREATIONALLY. Would you use your ADHD meds to get high? If the answer is yes, you are not medicating, you are abusing drugs. Kratom, if used properly can give you motivation, courage and focus. You can do the most mundane, boring and repetitive tasks and you will probably have a smile on your face and not a care in the world; this is what the Thai's use this for. They use it in the mornings before a hard day's work. I will explain my own experience with this

5. If you are taking ADHD meds, my best advice would be not to use kratom while your meds are working. If you crash, etc., then you might get some help from kratom to get over the hump. If you use them concurrently, you are wasting your money. Kratom is more expensive than your meds, assuming you have health insurance and there is no co-pay for kratom.

On a side note, I am not encouraging nor am I condoning the use of kratom; however I firmly believe that knowledge is power and knowledge can help save a person from making the mistakes others have made.

All that being said, I will explain why and how I know so much about kratom. I started using kratom a little over 3 years ago. I heard it was an acceptable substitute for opiates. I had taken my share of opiates in my life and I'd be a liar if I didn't say I enjoyed their properties of decreased social anxiety, etc. One thing that has always been said about undiagnosed ADHD- it can often cause the undiagnosed to self-medicate. One thing I noticed about kratom that was different was that it gave me motivation; something my ADHD has waged a constant battle against. At first, I used it every once in a while. It actually took me several purchases to actually find something that was not fake or inferior; I had given up, but the last try and a little research sealed the deal.

At the time I was gearing up to deploy to Afghanistan. Pre-deployment phase consisted of grueling hours, sleep deprivation and much to accomplish in little time. I began to notice the kratom would help this. My job was in the Communications field (radios, GPS, etc.); if you are not actually doing hands on, and are stuck reading or studying to get your knowledge up, the stuff is very dry. The kratom made it interesting. I could have been reading about the sleeping patterns of juniper beetles and I would have found it intriguing. My use of kratom went from occasional to somewhat regular.

Toward the end of pre-deployment, I was using kratom almost daily. I was working circles around people. I was a junior guy with no prior deployments and little real experience in my field yet I was putting in 18 hour days to learn, train and catch up to the guys who made it look easy. The kratom helped this extremely. By the time we were getting on the big bird to take us to the unknown, in a little over 14 weeks I gained the knowledge that took many others months if not years.

When we got to Afghanistan, it only increased. We hit the ground running. After a couple days of “assimilation” or RSO&I as they called it, we were doing what we trained for. I still had not become a daily user, but I was close. When the mission tempo increased, my kratom use increased as did my productivity. I began to accelerate far beyond many of the people who trained me and after a few months, I was the expert. I was the go-to-guy. At that point a certain chain of events caused our missions to become much more dangerous with much more at stake. My kratom use had become daily, with me taking 2 or 3 grams about every 4 or 5 hours or so. I would often work 20-30 hours straight, with an hour or two nap mixed in when possible. I did it all with a smile and I did it better than most. I was focused, clear and ready to take on anything.

About 6 months into the deployment, while I was using kratom multiple times daily, I had gotten near the point in my supply where it was time to order more. This was quite regular, I had it timed to the day, as the orders would always take 7 or 8 days max to arrive. After 9 days and no package, my current supply ran dry. I have said many great things about kratom but I will say this: for 4 days I was miserable. The euphoria died, the motivation along with it and I crashed and burned. This was withdrawal. This was misery. Through this misery, I still had to provide the same level of productivity and put in the grueling hours as there was not an option for a sick day or a vacation. I still did my job, but I did it with aches, pains and anxiety. I had contacted the seller numerous times and he couldn’t figure out what happened. In the end, it was held for several days extra as it was in the same a shipment with another Soldier’s package containing a large bottle of vodka (which is illegal for US Military in Combat Zones) that broke. Despite the misery, two good things came from this: I reset the tolerance that had grown exponentially and I realized the power behind this substance. I had abused it and I had payed.

I pushed through the rest of the tour still taking kratom as it gave me that edge; it gave me that motivation that had long since run out from many of my comrades. We had been gone nearly a year and the stress, the tension, the long hours, the constant danger and the fatigue had long since set in for everyone; however I was still going strong. The kratom for lack of a better phrase had made me numb; I had grown to love all its magical properties and I had become numb to the fact that I had been away from my family for a year. When I look back on all of this, I both love and hate kratom at the same time; I love it for the machine it turned me into, I hated it for the fact that I had become numb to many emotions, as if I were a robot. Perhaps just war in general does that to a person, but I’d have to guess the kratom amplified it.

I came home, I got my month off and I then returned to work (I’m a Reservist). Although I had made a deal with myself that once I returned home, the kratom use would be excessively scaled back to the point of almost illimination, I continued to use it at a rate that soon came to exceed my use in Afghanistan. I had some sort of kratom in my system for every second I was awake. The transition coming home from a deployment is hell. It is abrupt, confusing and violent at best. The kratom helped give me that same numbness that I now required. I no longer even “felt” anything from the kratom, but if I didn’t have it, I felt awful.

Long story short, it took a little more than a year and I am now no longer the habitual kratom abuser I used to be. I had never been diagnosed or treated for ADHD and I finally took the step to do that. It took me being able to admit I had PTSD and getting help for that before I even thought of crossing that bridge. I discovered the miracle of medication; for most of my life, the stigma associated with it (based on ignorance) far outweighed any benefits I thought I’d receive. I was finally able to taper down off the kratom. I no longer use it out of necessity, but occasionally I will use it to augment my current medications. As we all know, Vyvanse does not last the 12-14 hours that Shire says it does, so a light dose of kratom provides a heavy duty seatbelt for the inevitable crash.

When all was said and done, at my worst I was probably spending close to $250-$300 a month on kratom. I now pay 12.50 for my Vyvanse and the Wellbutrin is free. I guess you could say I was self medicating when I used the kratom. As I said earlier, I often hear that many people with untreated ADHD often self medicate. I was one of those people.

Please take all I have said and make your own conclusions on kratom. As it is said with medication, it should only be taken if the benefits outweigh the possible side effects. Kratom is a powerful substance; if used correctly, it can be a great tool to give that push to get things done and to even excel. If used incorrectly, it can result in a very dark and lonely place that I never wish to visit again.

Last edited by saul.a; 01-13-12 at 01:35 AM.. Reason: Quote was missing middle;
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Old 01-13-12, 12:18 PM
Get Naked Get Naked is offline

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Re: Kratom?

4 grams is stronger than 2 percocets for me. Never understood people who don't "feel it".. without a doubt the best "legal high" one can get. And it's not that addictive. I took it for 2 months straight every morning upon waking instead of caffeine and all of my days were wonderful. I stopped it, had a craving for 2-3 days, and it faded.

Amazing stuff.
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Old 02-27-12, 09:46 PM
mrcold mrcold is offline
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Re: Kratom?

Originally Posted by Get Naked View Post
4 grams is stronger than 2 percocets for me. Never understood people who don't "feel it".. without a doubt the best "legal high" one can get. And it's not that addictive. I took it for 2 months straight every morning upon waking instead of caffeine and all of my days were wonderful. I stopped it, had a craving for 2-3 days, and it faded.

Amazing stuff.
Simple. There are about a million variations of it. If you at 4 grams of your standard amazon special Bali krat, you might notice it...if you really wanted to. If you ate 4 grams of plain leaf maeng da ("pimp grade") or some white vein sumatran powder, you'd probably notice some decent effect. If you ate 4 grams of 35x extract from a good reputable source, you might find your ***** has magically fused to your couch for 6 or 8 hours.

I have $0.04 cents left, so I have 2 comments:

To the guy who said you cannot smoke kratom, that's not technically correct. However, your standard Bic lighter isn't going to get hot enough for it to work.

To anyone and everyone who has ever or will ever ask "is this stuff addictive?"...I have yet to find anything even remotely enjoyable in this life that isn't.

(sorry, found 2 pennies in my couch. Extract will give you more bang for your buck...but only the first couple times. I won't pretend to be a rocket surgeon, but something with the extract causes downregulation of the receptors faster than plain leaf, even with comparable doses. Go figure...)
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