Marrying an ADHD Man: Rage, Porn, Employment, Children

[ana futura]

It's not your right to tell him that he can't use porn, any more than telling him he can't drink or eat desert. It may be a vice, but the majority of people who use porn do so responsibly with no risk to themselves or others.

With ADHD you need to focus on the important issues. Making a big deal over minor things is a waste of effort and will only make the bigger issues harder to deal with. You have to pick your battles, and honestly, it's really not a nice thing to tell someone that they aren't allowed to do certain things, just because you are uncomfortable with them.

As for his outbursts- do not engage. If you engage or try to comfort him, you will only make the situation worse. Try your hardest to de-escalate the situation.

[vegasawaits]

Originally Posted by T-Rex65

About the employment...

What do you guys do when you have a sudden windfall of money? Are you able to put some of it aside for an emergency fund, and some for your retirement? Or do you tend to spend it as quickly as he makes it? Do you have a steady job that could even out the ups and downs of his income stream?

I make more than twice what we need to live on, running a businees that has been steady for 10+ years that can operate independant of my involvement. We have a fully funded retirement fund that will allow us to retire at 45 should we want to (thinking more like partial retirement and lots of traveling). We are the most frugal people ever and have zero debt other than our house, and prefer a modest and simple lifestyle. We have a 6 month emergency fund, that will be twice that once we refund it from recent medical problems. He is a traveling musician and artist so he gets a lump sum at the end of each tour or gallery show. We are just dumping that to pay off our house....and go on the occasional vacation.

Stability isnt the issue, him feeling insecure for no real reason is. I like that we are both self employed with lots of time off to spent with each other.

I never worry when his next wave will be, if he never wanted to work again that'd be fine by me. He is a good man who would work a miserable job he hates if we needed it, but if he never made another penny I'd be just as content.

He is just trippin in my opinion. And im not sure what to say to ease his mind.

[T-Rex65]

Originally Posted by vegasawaits

He is just trippin in my opinion. And im not sure what to say to ease his mind.

Well, that makes things harder. If it were a rational fear, you could just make a budget. That would be much easier than soothing his ego.

Is it possible that he is actually insecure about his artistic talent rather than his earnings? Thinking of his insecurity in dollar terms may make the fear more manageable for him.

[kilted_scotsman]

sounds like you're doing the right things... counselling/ diet etc... Exercise is good too.

You also sound like you're financially pretty independent which is good.

But...the question is the rages... which you say are lessening. You have quite a phlegmatic approach which is unusual... however once kids come along outside agencies will be more likely to intervene..... they have a duty of care to the children regardless of whether the parents think the situation is consensual and acceptable.

This means that is a concerned neighbour hears enraged shouting and sounds of destruction from a house they know contains children you could be in trouble. There is no real way round this apart from not having destructive rages or finding another outlet for them.... like the wrinkly tin.

If kids come along, a destructive rage in which possessions get destroyed is a relationship terminating event......this is not the kind of thing that kids are unaffected by.... particularly if some of "their" things get trashed. I'm sure neither you nor your partner want yur kids to think that destruction ones own or someone elses possessions is acceptable means of dealing with anger.

It may be that a part of your agreement is that is a destructive rage occurs after you become parents your partner moves out and you begin a "living apart together" type of relationship.

kilted

[finalcall]

I am in agreement with you on porn. It's a deal breaker for me too. ..and I absolutely do believe you have the right to draw whatever lines in the sand you are comfortable with. I see it as each person coming to the relationship has the right to decide and define what they are willing to accept and live with...if you aren't willing to live with him watching porn, you are fully within your rights to define that. Course, if he can't live without it, he's within his rights to decide not to be in the relationship. ..but I'm with you on it. If I find porn in my house, I don't accept it. It disgusts me and I view it as a form of cheating. I don't fantasize about other men, so I expect the same respect. I understand the simple noticing of a pretty girl...that's normal..you can't go through life with blinders on. BUT..actively seeking sexual pleasure from someone else, physically, voyeuristically, or whatever...is not okay with me. The only reason people have come to accept it is because it's practically served on a silver platter in our current society. ...doesn't make it okay.

As far as the rage issues...hm. My worry would be if they ever became physical toward you or your future kids. When someone loses so much control that they are destroying the house, they have lost ability to reason. I have seen angry outbursts from my fiance as well. He will fly into rages, but they pass quickly. Still, the things he says or threatens to do during his rages are incredibly harsh and hurtful. He has never raised a hand to me, but he has said things to intentionally hurt. He feels awful afterwards, but some things cannot be said because they can never be taken back.

His family relates to each other very differently than my family does. They use extremely harsh language with each other that my family would never use toward each other. So, I have struggled with that myself on occasion. He's gotten much better about it, but he can still be very hurtful when he wants to.

He has never trashed the house though. I don't think I would tolerate that either. I think trashing the house and intentionally breaking things that have to be replaced or treasured items that cannot be replaced would also be a deal breaker. There is no excuse for violence or physical threat in a relationship. period.

As far as work..I don't care what kind of work he does as long as he's happy. I get that it is hard for him to hold a specific job for a prolonged period of time, and as long as he's contributing and trying..I'm okay with that. I just want him to be happy with what he's doing. So the employment thing, we can work with.

So, I guess my line in the sand is physically uncontrolled outbursts, and porn. Oh..and substance abuse. I will NOT EVER tolerate substance abuse. period. I do not want my life adversely affected by drugs. I don't do the violent stuff, porn nor drugs..and I don't want them in my home. ..and I have the right to define that for myself. If my partner couldn't live with any of those stipulations, then he would be welcome to find someone else.

[vegasawaits]

Originally Posted by kilted_scotsman

But...the question is the rages... which you say are lessening. You have quite a phlegmatic approach which is unusual... however once kids come along outside agencies will be more likely to intervene..... they have a duty of care to the children regardless of whether the parents think the situation is consensual and acceptable.

This means that is a concerned neighbour hears enraged shouting and sounds of destruction from a house they know contains children you could be in trouble. There is no real way round this apart from not having destructive rages or finding another outlet for them.... like the wrinkly tin.

If kids come along, a destructive rage in which possessions get destroyed is a relationship terminating event......this is not the kind of thing that kids are unaffected by.... particularly if some of "their" things get trashed. I'm sure neither you nor your partner want yur kids to think that destruction ones own or someone elses possessions is acceptable means of dealing with anger.

I guess I never really thought of them as this serious, I'm surprised that more people haven't dealt with this. I've always viewed it as just a symptom of a sickness. Just like you cant control your body you cant always control your mind. You can eat healthy and exercise to stay healthy and you can do anger management, stress management, and everything else in between but until the right coping/preventative thing sticks he's out of luck. Them being so infrequent almost makes them harder to address.

I can't sign off on something so rigid as ending a relationship because you destroy a possession, or many. I'd rather my kids learn that you stand by your family no matter what, and that's what marriage is to me. I think seeing their parents stand by each other, especially during the hard times, builds more fortitude. I want them to understand that there are people still out there who believe that once your a family you have a lifelong obligation to those people. I would not end a marriage any sooner than i would disown a child or parent.

I went through years of hell and back with my mom. Things were seemingly unbearable at times, anger on both sides, substance abuse, employment, emotional and legal issues, and yet after a few very dark years she came out of it and here we are today with a great relationship that has a stronger foundation because of the tough times.

I'm sure I'll get some criticism for being idealistic but these are the values that just come naturally to me. The older adults I was raised around and know today, most of them have been married for 30+ years, and everyone of them has told me the virtues and value of staying with someone through the worst of the worst.

Bear in mind I cited the worst hes been, that wasnt to imply that thats how it always is. His most recent rage was exerted by breaking a pile of cinderblocks into pieces and deep cleaning and repairing the entire house to a nuerotic degree till he was exhausted....thus far cleaning is my favorite coping skill, for almost anything where racing thoughs and energy is involved. But just because it was focused to better things than distruction, the fact that its blackout rage is unnerving.

He never really lashes out at people, when he lived alone he would do it in solitude. Even the comments directed at me are impersonal and empty. I feel like I am on the outside not the object of whats going on.

The main reason we want to see a doc is to see if theres something he can take at the onset that can put him down or snap out of it if he feels like he cant do so on his own.

Originally Posted by kilted_scotsman

It may be that a part of your agreement is that is a destructive rage occurs after you become parents your partner moves out and you begin a "living apart together" type of relationship.

kilted

^^^^^This was by far the most conversation provoking point made. We agreed that should it come down to it we could both happily live separate, but together and that it is a way better alternative to divorce, family problems or anger between us. One of our new pre-marriage goals is to set up a seperate account and budget plan in advance to fund whatever living arrangement suits us best. It also caused topics like what about when I want to go live with my aging mother part time, or if he winds up on an extended tour.

Currently the action plan is (and has been):

At the first sign that rage is coming on, it takes hours, (strange behavior, insults) I take his car keys and the pets to the neighbors (who is a super great guy/family man and a cop, him and his wife are our relationship mentors of sorts) he comes over and hangs out while I grab stuff for a night out at friends or a hotel or whatever.

I put papers and notes up with big bold letters of things that keep him grounded, remind him of his priorities, and my love and leave. He lashes out however he will, and then together we figure out what to do next.

Our neighbor either stays over or checks in often to keep an eye on things. I guess If things ever looked like the were going poorly his offer to look in on things means its implied he is willing to deal with the drama of it. They have an emergency mental health calm down place that we agreed was a last ditch and pretty ok place worst case.

I take off and I make sure to do whatever I want, treat myself to a nice day and meal somewhere. till I hear from him, then I go home and we continue to live happily ever after, using the expierence to add more info to the mix of figuring all this out.

Having a surprise night out for myself is nice, I guess I thought I'd just take the kids along and make it us time.

I really appreciate all the input i've received here. having the way i see things and my problems objectively challenged and evaluated is even more helpful than i thought.

[vegasawaits]

Originally Posted by finalcall

I am in agreement with you on porn. It's a deal breaker for me too. ..and I absolutely do believe you have the right to draw whatever lines in the sand you are comfortable with. I see it as each person coming to the relationship has the right to decide and define what they are willing to accept and live with...if you aren't willing to live with him watching porn, you are fully within your rights to define that. Course, if he can't live without it, he's within his rights to decide not to be in the relationship. ..but I'm with you on it. If I find porn in my house, I don't accept it. It disgusts me and I view it as a form of cheating. I don't fantasize about other men, so I expect the same respect. I understand the simple noticing of a pretty girl...that's normal..you can't go through life with blinders on. BUT..actively seeking sexual pleasure from someone else, physically, voyeuristically, or whatever...is not okay with me. The only reason people have come to accept it is because it's practically served on a silver platter in our current society. ...doesn't make it okay.

Thanks, I was starting to think I was flyin solo here. Many polyamourists would argue that its unfair to expect him to lay it down with just me. My initial intent in asking about it was more how to deal with talking to him about it. Since porn has such a stigma attatched I dont want him to feel ashamed or guilty about it. I want to keep those lines open just like any thing else. This falls into the forsaking all others category for me, a non negotiable. It is however something Im perfectly comfortable talking about and addressing the issue causing the desire.

I love the demands a relationship puts on me, the honor and obey thing is a two way street. We comply with the others requests even if begrudgingly at first. I chose him because i respect his opinion as much as my own and assume that if and when he asks things of me they are in my or our best interest, and comply accordingly even if i dont want to at first trusting in his good motives and logic. Usually he's right when he puts his foot down, and eventually i understand. when it has been a bad call it still ment that change was needed, just somthing more in between the extremes.

[TygerSan]

At the first sign that rage is coming on, it takes hours, (strange behavior, insults) I take his car keys and the pets to the neighbors (who is a super great guy/family man and a cop, him and his wife are our relationship mentors of sorts) he comes over and hangs out while I grab stuff for a night out at friends or a hotel or whatever.

Stupid question here, but has he ever had an EEG?? Is it possible that what's going on here isn't ADHD-related but something more like a seizure?? The blackout part of it, along with the strange behavior makes me wonder if something else is going on here.

[finalcall]

Originally Posted by vegasawaits

this falls into the forsaking all others category for me, a non negotiable.

e.x.a.c.t.l.y.

I would handle it the same as I would handle any other issue. "I love you, but this is not okay with me and we need to talk about this....." and do it before you sign the wedding certificate. Get this stuff straight before you are legally attached.

[RedHairedWitch]

It sounds like there is more going on than ADHD. We tend to have short attention spans. Our anger comes in short and unpredictable but strong spurts that burn out quickly. Not generally something predictable that builds over hours and takes hours to work through.

If you guys don't need the cash, then maybe what he needs is an awesome part time job. something that won't cause burn out but that he feels contributes somewhat and that can feed his ego, creativity etc

There's also volunteering as a possibility.

[vegasawaits]

Originally Posted by TygerSan

Stupid question here, but has he ever had an EEG?? Is it possible that what's going on here isn't ADHD-related but something more like a seizure?? The blackout part of it, along with the strange behavior makes me wonder if something else is going on here.

Thats what we thought, but had kind of dismissed since when we request this type of investigation the med professionals dont seem too concerned. the last time it happened we took him to the emergency room. Because it is very much a physical issue, I guess thats why I thought it may be adhd since there is zero aggressiveness or inappropriatly handled feelings otherwise. We don't argue, or raise our voices, he is never harsh in his tone much less violent. When I have spoken with his counselor s guy he says we have exemplary communication and conflict resolution skills and all that. He was one of the several people who have suggested it may be more medical than behavioral since we can see the onset physically. He gets shakey and starts swetting, it becomes hard for him to think or speak straight, and he gets scared. He says he can watch it happening from the inside out and that its horrible knowing but not able to stop slipping into blackouts.

They kept asking if he was a drug user (we dont even drink), kept him for a few hours on iv saline, but ultimatly let us go with a referral to anger management classes, mental institution, and narcotics anonymous (despite being willing to take a blood test to prove its NOT drugs). Regularly people think he is on speed, thats actually how we became such good friends with out cop neighbor, other neighbors were gossiping and he came to meet us when we moved in. He speaks loudly and fragmented about kind of out there ideas, never stops working, and even when he stands still he is bouncing and fidgeting. He is eccentric. His art is sculptures made from salvaged stuff so there is constantly things being disassembled in the driveway and he has a couple guys that come by and I guess, to the neighbors, it looks like tweeker central over here. I guess in the city we look the part too, we come from the country/small town and have been told we look like white trash hillbillies, whatever that means. I assume its cause our judgy neighbors with their new cars, nice furniture and business casual attire just arent used to being around people like us. We bought our home somewhere safe and near good schools and work, but our appearance doesnt match up with our income so it raised eyebrows. Its kind fo funny though, cause now that everyone knows him better our house is a regular stop for the neighbors and their kids to see his latest projects or music. Living around and getting to know a bunch of young families i think has given us both a bit of family fever

Then we went to a doctor the next day who basically said the same thing, said it was probably just adhd and poor anger management, inquired about substance abuse and offered antidepresants (not even meds for adhd) told us to eat and sleep healthy and to return if it happened again. As well as gave me materials about a womens abuse shelter. With these episodes being years apart we dont really feel like we are getting anywhere, especially if its a medical thing my paranoid side thinks what if its something catastrophic and time sensitive that needs attention.

So we took a few months off (this was about 6 months ago) since he has been on tour most of it and when he gets back we are continuing the doctor hunt. He has a great group of mental health people he works with and I think we should be taken more seriously since he has done all the anger management, therapy, reading and personal work a person can do.

The guy we will be seeing when he returns is a referral from them since we didnt get anywhere with the hospital or our normal doc. Hopefully we will gain some insight, even if its just to what isnt causing it that we need not worry about.

[vegasawaits]

Originally Posted by RedHairedWitch

It sounds like there is more going on than ADHD. We tend to have short attention spans. Our anger comes in short and unpredictable but strong spurts that burn out quickly. Not generally something predictable that builds over hours and takes hours to work through.

I'm glad that this is the feedback I've been getting, I'm pretty good at predicting his unpredictability and this is so out of character. It was mentioned to pursue brain scans and we are gonna be looking at other medical issues that may cause this.

Originally Posted by RedHairedWitch

If you guys don't need the cash, then maybe what he needs is an awesome part time job. something that won't cause burn out but that he feels contributes somewhat and that can feed his ego, creativity etc

There's also volunteering as a possibility.

Any ideas on voulenteer stuff that has a flexible schedule?

[CheekyMonkey]

Originally Posted by vegasawaits

I'm glad that this is the feedback I've been getting, I'm pretty good at predicting his unpredictability and this is so out of character. It was mentioned to pursue brain scans and we are gonna be looking at other medical issues that may cause this.



Any ideas on voulenteer stuff that has a flexible schedule?

Volunteermatch.org can help you match up with something that looks interesting.

[kilted_scotsman]

I'd second the idea that there's something else going on...

I would suggest some sort of journalling/diary work, difficult to know what to cover... and that' you'd have to keep it going for a long time to see if there was anything noticeable as a trigger. also if he diarises his thoughts he may be able to spot subtle things that indicate an episode might have happened but has been deflected by some activity or thought process.

bob

[RedHairedWitch]

The anger issues sounds more like some kind of anxiety disorder. A lot of people with ADHD develop anxiety issues as well as, or as a result of, the ADHD.

I second the volunteer match website, it's awesome. Think of things that he is passionate about: the environment? Kids? Animals? Sports? There are always so many volunteering opportunities available if you look. Try things like the local rec centre and city/regional websites as well.